[Amel] Osmosis protection
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Herbert Lackner
Hi Joel, I hope that you are reading this and maybe have an answer (according to Bill you may be the only one who knows J )
We are now removing all the old antifouling and would like to know if the Santorin (Nr. 120, built 1995) has the same “anti-osmotic-barrier” behind the gelcoat like the SM.
The information is important to me because I would like to know if I have to put (expensive) 5 layers of Gelshield200 on the Gelcoat or not (or maybe only one layer) before painting new antifouling.
Thank you very much,
Herbert KALI MERA, SN120, Kusadasi
Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Bill & Judy Rouse
I removed all of the antifouling in 2011 on BeBe, Super Maramu, which was delivered new in Jan 2003. Gelcoat is, at best, about 90% vapor proof, so normally there is a need for a barrier coat, however, not so on all Super Maramus. Amel used a proprietary anti-osmotic behind the gelcoat which is 99% vapor proof. I am not sure if your Santorin has this coating behind the gelcoat or if it will require an epoxy "barrier coat" over the gelcoat. I believe that this depends on when the Santorin was manufactured and the resins that were available at that time. The only person that I know that can tell you this is Joel Potter.
Normally yards remove the antifouling and down to the fiberglass by scraping it off, either by hand or with an electrical scraper...sometimes a grinder. If you are not doing this yourself, I recommend supervision 100% of the time as you do not want them to damage the gel coat. Any scratch deep enough "that can be filled in the gel coat" should be filled with proper epoxy, then faired smooth.
If you do require a barrier coat, I recommend International Paints Gel Seal 200.
When you ask for recommendations for antifouling, you will get many because it seems that the product someone uses, they tend to support...human nature, people do not like being wrong. I have a friend that will pay $1,000+ to have his boat hauled then shop antifouling by price sometimes paying as little as $100/gallon...I certainly do not recommend this.
I always recommend International Paints Micron 77 for the tropics...and I use it exclusively around the world. We used Micron 66 then Micron 77 when 77 replaced 66. It will cost more than most antifoulings, but the one thing that is always true with antifouling is that you will get what you pay for. If you use Micron 77, be sure to read the product information sheet completely...do not use thinners and do not apply the layers too thick or too thin...if using a roller, you can create bubbles in the paint by using the wrong roller or rolling too fast. Read the product sheet and be an expert before your painter starts. He might think that you are a pain, but it is your boat, not his! A Super Maramu requires 20 liters.
I can walk through a marina and pick our Micron 77 users...the hulls will be cleaner. You might try this, but only if you are in the tropics. Walk through a marina and ask the people with the cleanest hulls what they use, when they applied it and the last time the hull was cleaned...that is the way to get your best answer.
Hope this helps you.
Bill BeBe, #387
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:20 AM, <herbert@...> wrote:
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Eric, 5 gallons would probably not do it, or be too close for comfort. 5 gallons = 19 liters and I always buy the 20 liter pail. If you are buying in St. Martin, the small franchise Budget Marine store on the French side sometimes has deals on Micron in 20 liter pails. They owner's name is Guy. He is a Dessalator Dealer as well. I bought some high pressure hose from him for the 160l watermaker.
Bill BeBe, SM2k, #387 On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
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Sailorman <kimberlite@...>
Pat, Using a different paint I got 2 coats on the first painting with 5 gallons. For some reason this year they needed 6 gallons including a third coat on the leading edge of the keel an the waterline. Fair Winds Eric Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Patrick Mcaneny
Eric, How many coats of paint do you get out of five gallons?What is the recommended coats on a bare hull? Pat SM
#123 -----Original
Message----- From: Sailorman
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:38 am Subject: RE: [Amel] Osmosis protection
Bill, Ihad a heavy sanding done this spring and used 66 I did not see 77 in the store. They used 6 gallons including painting over the orange stripe this year as kimberlite sits down by the keel I hope next time i haul i will use only 5 gallons. I will keep a look out for 77. what is the difference? fair winds eric sm 376 kimberlite
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
On Behalf Of Bill & Judy Rouse
Eric,
Most of the places we have hauled sell Micron in 20 liter pails. It works perfectly for 2 good coats all over and a third coat from the waterline down about 12-18", the leading edge of keel and skeg, and all of the rudder. We usually have about a liter or so left over which we discard.
We generally haul every 2 years. We hauled this July which was 2 years and 3 months, but probably could have waited for 3 years as the Med is not the Tropics.
Bill BeBe, SM2k, #387 Fethiye, Turkey
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
Bill, How much 66/77 do you use to paint your boat? How often do you haul and paint? Fair Winds Eric Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite
I am
using the Free version of SPAMfighter. |
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Patrick McAneny
Eric, How many coats of paint do you get out of five gallons?What is the recommended coats on a bare hull?
Pat SM #123 -----Original Message----- From: Sailorman To: amelyachtowners Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:38 am Subject: RE: [Amel] Osmosis protection Bill,
Ihad a heavy sanding done this spring and used 66 I did not see 77 in the store.
They used 6 gallons including painting over the orange stripe this year as kimberlite sits down by the keel
I hope next time i haul i will use only 5 gallons. I will keep a look out for 77.
what is the difference?
fair winds
eric
sm 376 kimberlite
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Bill & Judy Rouse Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:18 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel] Osmosis protection Eric,
Most of the places we have hauled sell Micron in 20 liter pails. It works perfectly for 2 good coats all over and a third coat from the waterline down about 12-18", the leading edge of keel and skeg, and all of the rudder. We usually have about a liter or so left over which we discard.
We generally haul every 2 years. We hauled this July which was 2 years and 3 months, but probably could have waited for 3 years as the Med is not the Tropics.
Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Fethiye, Turkey
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 2150 of my spam emails to date. Do you have a slow PC? Try a free scan! |
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Eric,
Micron 77 replaced Micron 66 at least a year ago. That 66 may have been a little old. The primary benefit with 77 is that you can take it in fresh water...fresh water will ruin the antifouling nature of 66, according to International Paints. I raised the antifouling up to the boot stripe, a raise of about 1" or 25mm. I had the orange boot stripe sanded, primed and repainted using AwlGrip 2-part desert sand, then left a white 25mm stripe above it, then added a new 25mm stripe above the white. Desert Sand is the color used by Amel today for the boot stripe. The two stripes turned out nice. I will post a photo with the group and have attached it to this email. BTW, I still had 1-2 liters left over after raising the antifouling 25mm. Bill BeBe On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote: ** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Sailorman <kimberlite@...>
Bill,
Ihad a heavy sanding done this spring and used 66 I
did not see 77 in the store.
They used 6 gallons including painting over the orange stripe
this year as kimberlite sits down by the keel
I hope next time i haul i will use only 5 gallons. I will keep
a look out for 77.
what is the difference?
fair winds
eric
sm 376 kimberlite
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Bill & Judy Rouse Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:18 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel] Osmosis protection
Eric,
Most of the places we have hauled sell Micron in 20 liter pails. It works
perfectly for 2 good coats all over and a third coat from the waterline down
about 12-18", the leading edge of keel and skeg, and all of the rudder. We
usually have about a liter or so left over which we discard.
We generally haul every 2 years. We hauled this July which was 2 years and
3 months, but probably could have waited for 3 years as the Med is not the
Tropics.
Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Fethiye, Turkey
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Herbert, BeBe is always in the water. We have hauled every 2 years, with the last haulout being July 2013. That haulout was 2 years 3 months and probably could have been delayed for a full 3 years because all of the 2 years 3 months was in the Med rather than in the tropics.
Bill BeBe On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:15 PM, <herbert@...> wrote:
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Eric, Most of the places we have hauled sell Micron in 20 liter pails. It works perfectly for 2 good coats all over and a third coat from the waterline down about 12-18", the leading edge of keel and skeg, and all of the rudder. We usually have about a liter or so left over which we discard.
We generally haul every 2 years. We hauled this July which was 2 years and 3 months, but probably could have waited for 3 years as the Med is not the Tropics. Bill BeBe, SM2k, #387
Fethiye, Turkey On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
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Herbert Lackner
Dear Billl, thank you very much for the detailled answer! our santorin is from 1995, i sent a request now to amel-med to check if she has osmosis protection like the sm and will post the answer.
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how often do you renew the antifouling? is BeBe always in the water? tadeja & herbert kali mera, santorin 120 ---In amelyachtowners@..., <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: I removed all of the antifouling in 2011 on BeBe, Super Maramu, which was delivered new in Jan 2003. Gelcoat is, at best, about 90% vapor proof, so normally there is a need for a barrier coat, however, not so on all Super Maramus. Amel used a proprietary anti-osmotic behind the gelcoat which is 99% vapor proof. I am not sure if your Santorin has this coating behind the gelcoat or if it will require an epoxy "barrier coat" over the gelcoat. I believe that this depends on when the Santorin was manufactured and the resins that were available at that time. The only person that I know that can tell you this is Joel Potter. Normally yards remove the antifouling and down to the fiberglass by scraping it off, either by hand or with an electrical scraper...sometimes a grinder. If you are not doing this yourself, I recommend supervision 100% of the time as you do not want them to damage the gel coat. Any scratch deep enough "that can be filled in the gel coat" should be filled with proper epoxy, then faired smooth. If you do require a barrier coat, I recommend International Paints Gel Seal 200. When you ask for recommendations for antifouling, you will get many because it seems that the product someone uses, they tend to support...human nature, people do not like being wrong. I have a friend that will pay $1,000+ to have his boat hauled then shop antifouling by price sometimes paying as little as $100/gallon...I certainly do not recommend this. I always recommend International Paints Micron 77 for the tropics...and I use it exclusively around the world. We used Micron 66 then Micron 77 when 77 replaced 66. It will cost more than most antifoulings, but the one thing that is always true with antifouling is that you will get what you pay for. If you use Micron 77, be sure to read the product information sheet completely...do not use thinners and do not apply the layers too thick or too thin...if using a roller, you can create bubbles in the paint by using the wrong roller or rolling too fast. Read the product sheet and be an expert before your painter starts. He might think that you are a pain, but it is your boat, not his! A Super Maramu requires 20 liters.
I can walk through a marina and pick our Micron 77 users...the hulls will be cleaner. You might try this, but only if you are in the tropics. Walk through a marina and ask the people with the cleanest hulls what they use, when they applied it and the last time the hull was cleaned...that is the way to get your best answer.
Hope this helps you. Bill BeBe, #387
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Sailorman <kimberlite@...>
Bill, How much 66/77 do you use to paint your boat? How often do you haul and paint? Fair Winds Eric Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Bill & Judy Rouse
I removed all of the antifouling in 2011 on BeBe, Super Maramu, which was delivered new in Jan 2003. Gelcoat is, at best, about 90% vapor proof, so normally there is a need for a barrier coat, however, not so on all Super Maramus. Amel used a proprietary anti-osmotic behind the gelcoat which is 99% vapor proof. I am not sure if your Santorin has this coating behind the gelcoat or if it will require an epoxy "barrier coat" over the gelcoat. I believe that this depends on when the Santorin was manufactured and the resins that were available at that time. The only person that I know that can tell you this is Joel Potter.
Normally yards remove the antifouling and down to the fiberglass by scraping it off, either by hand or with an electrical scraper...sometimes a grinder. If you are not doing this yourself, I recommend supervision 100% of the time as you do not want them to damage the gel coat. Any scratch deep enough "that can be filled in the gel coat" should be filled with proper epoxy, then faired smooth.
If you do require a barrier coat, I recommend International Paints Gel Seal 200.
When you ask for recommendations for antifouling, you will get many because it seems that the product someone uses, they tend to support...human nature, people do not like being wrong. I have a friend that will pay $1,000+ to have his boat hauled then shop antifouling by price sometimes paying as little as $100/gallon...I certainly do not recommend this.
I always recommend International Paints Micron 77 for the tropics...and I use it exclusively around the world. We used Micron 66 then Micron 77 when 77 replaced 66. It will cost more than most antifoulings, but the one thing that is always true with antifouling is that you will get what you pay for. If you use Micron 77, be sure to read the product information sheet completely...do not use thinners and do not apply the layers too thick or too thin...if using a roller, you can create bubbles in the paint by using the wrong roller or rolling too fast. Read the product sheet and be an expert before your painter starts. He might think that you are a pain, but it is your boat, not his! A Super Maramu requires 20 liters.
I can walk through a marina and pick our Micron 77 users...the hulls will be cleaner. You might try this, but only if you are in the tropics. Walk through a marina and ask the people with the cleanest hulls what they use, when they applied it and the last time the hull was cleaned...that is the way to get your best answer.
Hope this helps you.
Bill BeBe, #387
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:20 AM, <herbert@...> wrote:
dear all,
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
I removed all of the antifouling in 2011 on BeBe, Super Maramu, which was delivered new in Jan 2003. Gelcoat is, at best, about 90% vapor proof, so normally there is a need for a barrier coat, however, not so on all Super Maramus. Amel used a proprietary anti-osmotic behind the gelcoat which is 99% vapor proof. I am not sure if your Santorin has this coating behind the gelcoat or if it will require an epoxy "barrier coat" over the gelcoat. I believe that this depends on when the Santorin was manufactured and the resins that were available at that time. The only person that I know that can tell you this is Joel Potter. Normally yards remove the antifouling and down to the fiberglass by scraping it off, either by hand or with an electrical scraper...sometimes a grinder. If you are not doing this yourself, I recommend supervision 100% of the time as you do not want them to damage the gel coat. Any scratch deep enough "that can be filled in the gel coat" should be filled with proper epoxy, then faired smooth. If you do require a barrier coat, I recommend International Paints Gel Seal 200. When you ask for recommendations for antifouling, you will get many because it seems that the product someone uses, they tend to support...human nature, people do not like being wrong. I have a friend that will pay $1,000+ to have his boat hauled then shop antifouling by price sometimes paying as little as $100/gallon...I certainly do not recommend this. I always recommend International Paints Micron 77 for the tropics...and I use it exclusively around the world. We used Micron 66 then Micron 77 when 77 replaced 66. It will cost more than most antifoulings, but the one thing that is always true with antifouling is that you will get what you pay for. If you use Micron 77, be sure to read the product information sheet completely...do not use thinners and do not apply the layers too thick or too thin...if using a roller, you can create bubbles in the paint by using the wrong roller or rolling too fast. Read the product sheet and be an expert before your painter starts. He might think that you are a pain, but it is your boat, not his! A Super Maramu requires 20 liters.
I can walk through a marina and pick our Micron 77 users...the hulls will be cleaner. You might try this, but only if you are in the tropics. Walk through a marina and ask the people with the cleanest hulls what they use, when they applied it and the last time the hull was cleaned...that is the way to get your best answer.
Hope this helps you. Bill BeBe, #387 On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:20 AM, <herbert@...> wrote:
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