[Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor


Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 
In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.
The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.
I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.
I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 
Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?
What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?
What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

Terry&Dena
SV Libby SM#196
San Diego


lior 555 <lior246@...>
 

Hi

In the Amel 54 there is only 24V output for SSB. I ordered from Victron Energy the Model Orion 24/12-70A

Can someone give me a feedback if this converter is ok?

Thanks
Lior



2013/11/29 Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 
In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.
The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.
I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.
I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 
Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?
What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?
What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

Terry&Dena
SV Libby SM#196
San Diego



Mark Erdos
 

Lior,

 

My understanding on this (and I am not an electrician – someone with better knowledge please chime in). Since this is not isolated, any equipment connected to this that is then grounded to your Amel grounding system would then cause a common ground amongst all of your neg circuits since at some point the connection is made between the isolated ground and the common ground.

 

Like Dennis Miller says “I could be wrong”

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of lior 555
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 11:01 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi

 

In the Amel 54 there is only 24V output for SSB. I ordered from Victron Energy the Model Orion 24/12-70A

 

Can someone give me a feedback if this converter is ok?

 

Thanks

Lior

 

 

2013/11/29 Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego

 


amelforme
 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Lior <lior246@...>
 

hi joel

thanks a lot for your feedback.
can you/someone give us a link to an isolated 24/12v converter for the ssb?

thanks
lior


ב-29 בנוב 2013, בשעה 17:15, "Joel F Potter" <jfpottercys@...> כתב/ה:

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Herbert Lackner
 

 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Siviero Attilio <attilio.siviero@...>
 

Herbert,

I Installed on my Santorin #84 "Sisila" an Icom 718 with an Icom AT141 automatic tuner and Pactor modem, and it works well with a KISS-SSB couterpoise to act as ground plane (see http://www.kiss-ssb.com/index.html, it costs 125€ including shipment). My "techie", an ham radio expert much more than me, also connected the ground to the rudder, as you think to do.

The advantage to have the kiss-ssb is that you have a ground plane also out of water, when you are on the hard, and the ground plane is more "consistent".

The antenna is an insulated backstay, some 10m between insulators - very expensive piece of shroud, some 500€  -,  it acts as a lambda/4 whip antenna, which with the ground plane works as a lambda/2 dipole antenna 20m long, perfect fro 40m band without any tuning, and also for 20m band, the most crowded by ham radio enthusiasts and short-wave listeners (SWLs), so when you navigate you have always somebody ready to listen to you.

Your rig seems to be better than mine, at least more powerful, and also the tuner is OK, but be careful to place the tuner as close as possible to the antenna, otherwise you tune the feeding line more than the antenna. Mauro put it in the lazarete, just below the antenna, and the KISS-SSB runs around the lazarete ceiling, just around the top opening.

The tuner permits you to use the antenna also for 80m and 160m, the low bands most used at night, with the Pactor I was able to do emails from everywhere, via Winlink.

My American call-sign is KD2ECB, General Class; the italian one is in course of assignment, Extra Class, in the next months (italian bureaucracy is back in middle-age time....).

Hope this helps, fai winds


Attilio & Maria Siviero 
Amel Santorin#84 "Sisila"


Il giorno 29/nov/2013, alle ore 18:21, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> ha scritto:


 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego




Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Herbert,those thick green and yellow cables on the rudder stock are the end of the bonding circuit that connects all metal objects in the boat including the cast iron keel and then to the zink anodes on the rudder. not a great place for the SSB grounding.
Regards
Danny 
SM299 OceaPearl

On 30/11/2013, at 6:21 am, "Herbert Lackner" <herbert@...> wrote:

 

 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


eric freedman
 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Captain Pillar,

The Sailor 24VDC to 12VDC converters under the navigation station inside the door on the right side do not have the amperage output necessary to handle any SSB transceiver.

Regards,

Bill Rouse
BeBe


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 
In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.
The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.
I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.
I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 
Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?
What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?
What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

Terry&Dena
SV Libby SM#196
San Diego



Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Captain Pillar,

Respectfully submitted for your review:

The specs for the Sailor N420 24-12 Converter are:
Input Voltage 21.6 to 31.2V DC
Output Voltage 13.2V DC
Output Current Max. 8A DC

These are the specs for the IC M802 SSB are:
Power supply requirement 13.6V DC ±15%
Tx (Max. power) 30A (typ.)
Rx (Max. audio) 3.0A

Note the transmit amperage of the IC M802 is 30 amps and the maximum output of the Sailor N420 is 8 amps.

Additionally, the N420 is probably wired without a "homerun" to the battery switch. And, of course anything wired to the Sailor N420 will likely create noise on the SSB.

I think you should reexamine your installation. I imagine that N420 will get pretty hot, especially if the operator is long-winded.

Bill
BeBe


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 

Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



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Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Eric.
Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 
On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 
1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 
Fair winds 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller
603-767-5330

On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Captain Pillar,

On all of the Super Maramus I have seen, there are 3 of the Thrane & Thrane Sailor N420 24VDC to 12VDC converter/regulators. These are located inside the right door below the nav table.

One of these Sailor N420's is for 12V instruments (B&G Hydra or other), another for 12V VHF and the third for 12V accessories like the AM/FM Stereo and cigarette lighter. Each of these has a maximum rated output of 8 amps.

The IC M802 requires a maximum of 30 amps in Transmit...3 amps in Receive.

Your installation is not only wrong, it is likely dangerous.

Bill
BeBe



On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Richard Piller <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric.
Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 
On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 
1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 
Fair winds 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



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Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Attilio,

 

Thx for the information, I will try the KISS-SSB, the Tuner will be mounted at the same point as you have it. If the KISS-SSB is enough grounding then I will not connect it to the rudder, but will check how it works.

 

I will install the SCS pactor 3 modem and will isolate the backstay when Lorenzo changes the rigging in spring.

 

My Call-Sign is  OE3HLA

 

Fair winds

 

Herbert

SN #120, Kali Mera, Croatia

.

 

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Siviero Attilio
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 19:10
An: Briggs Craig
Betreff: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Herbert,

 

I Installed on my Santorin #84 "Sisila" an Icom 718 with an Icom AT141 automatic tuner and Pactor modem, and it works well with a KISS-SSB couterpoise to act as ground plane (see http://www.kiss-ssb.com/index.html, it costs 125€ including shipment). My "techie", an ham radio expert much more than me, also connected the ground to the rudder, as you think to do.

 

The advantage to have the kiss-ssb is that you have a ground plane also out of water, when you are on the hard, and the ground plane is more "consistent".

 

The antenna is an insulated backstay, some 10m between insulators - very expensive piece of shroud, some 500€  -,  it acts as a lambda/4 whip antenna, which with the ground plane works as a lambda/2 dipole antenna 20m long, perfect fro 40m band without any tuning, and also for 20m band, the most crowded by ham radio enthusiasts and short-wave listeners (SWLs), so when you navigate you have always somebody ready to listen to you.

 

Your rig seems to be better than mine, at least more powerful, and also the tuner is OK, but be careful to place the tuner as close as possible to the antenna, otherwise you tune the feeding line more than the antenna. Mauro put it in the lazarete, just below the antenna, and the KISS-SSB runs around the lazarete ceiling, just around the top opening.

 

The tuner permits you to use the antenna also for 80m and 160m, the low bands most used at night, with the Pactor I was able to do emails from everywhere, via Winlink.

 

My American call-sign is KD2ECB, General Class; the italian one is in course of assignment, Extra Class, in the next months (italian bureaucracy is back in middle-age time....).

 

Hope this helps, fai winds

 

 

Attilio & Maria Siviero 
Amel Santorin#84 "Sisila"

 

Il giorno 29/nov/2013, alle ore 18:21, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> ha scritto:



 

 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego

 

 


Lior <lior246@...>
 

dear bill

can you maybe write what converter is installed on your boat? i did not find any isolated converter.

thanks
lior


ב-30 בנוב 2013, בשעה 14:50, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Captain Pillar,

On all of the Super Maramus I have seen, there are 3 of the Thrane & Thrane Sailor N420 24VDC to 12VDC converter/regulators. These are located inside the right door below the nav table.

One of these Sailor N420's is for 12V instruments (B&G Hydra or other), another for 12V VHF and the third for 12V accessories like the AM/FM Stereo and cigarette lighter. Each of these has a maximum rated output of 8 amps.

The IC M802 requires a maximum of 30 amps in Transmit...3 amps in Receive.

Your installation is not only wrong, it is likely dangerous.

Bill
BeBe



On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Richard Piller <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric.
Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 
On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 
1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 
Fair winds 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
SPAMfighter has removed 2389 of my spam emails to date.

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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I have an ICOM PS66, DC-DC Converter. It is rated for 30 Amps and uses technology that is designed for radio transmitters and receivers.

This was installed by Amel when BeBe was manufactured.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:
 

dear bill

can you maybe write what converter is installed on your boat? i did not find any isolated converter.

thanks
lior


ב-30 בנוב 2013, בשעה 14:50, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Captain Pillar,

On all of the Super Maramus I have seen, there are 3 of the Thrane & Thrane Sailor N420 24VDC to 12VDC converter/regulators. These are located inside the right door below the nav table.

One of these Sailor N420's is for 12V instruments (B&G Hydra or other), another for 12V VHF and the third for 12V accessories like the AM/FM Stereo and cigarette lighter. Each of these has a maximum rated output of 8 amps.

The IC M802 requires a maximum of 30 amps in Transmit...3 amps in Receive.

Your installation is not only wrong, it is likely dangerous.

Bill
BeBe



On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Richard Piller <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric.
Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 
On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 
1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 
Fair winds 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



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Lior Keydar <lior246@...>
 

thanks bill

i really do not understand it so good.
there are from alfatronix "non isolated common negative" or "isolated input to output" converters. 

could you maybe tell me what is the right one? or am i completally wrong?

thanks a lot
lior

‫נשלח מה-iPad שלי‬

‫ב-30.11.2013, בשעה 15:58, ‏"Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:‬

 

I have an ICOM PS66, DC-DC Converter. It is rated for 30 Amps and uses technology that is designed for radio transmitters and receivers.

This was installed by Amel when BeBe was manufactured.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:
 

dear bill

can you maybe write what converter is installed on your boat? i did not find any isolated converter.

thanks
lior


ב-30 בנוב 2013, בשעה 14:50, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Captain Pillar,

On all of the Super Maramus I have seen, there are 3 of the Thrane & Thrane Sailor N420 24VDC to 12VDC converter/regulators. These are located inside the right door below the nav table.

One of these Sailor N420's is for 12V instruments (B&G Hydra or other), another for 12V VHF and the third for 12V accessories like the AM/FM Stereo and cigarette lighter. Each of these has a maximum rated output of 8 amps.

The IC M802 requires a maximum of 30 amps in Transmit...3 amps in Receive.

Your installation is not only wrong, it is likely dangerous.

Bill
BeBe



On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Richard Piller <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric.
Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 
On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 
1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 
Fair winds 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



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SPAMfighter has removed 2389 of my spam emails to date.

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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Lior,

If you are looking at PowerVerter, you will need a 24 / 30 A PV24i. Isolated
Input to Output.

On SM #387, Amel used a ICOM PS66 , DC-DC Converter which is 24 volts to 12 volts with 30 amps output. I know the Icom works very well. I no nothing about PowerVerter...may be good...I do not know.

Bill
BeBe


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Lior Keydar <lior246@...> wrote:
 

thanks bill

i really do not understand it so good.
there are from alfatronix "non isolated common negative" or "isolated input to output" converters. 

could you maybe tell me what is the right one? or am i completally wrong?

thanks a lot
lior

‫נשלח מה-iPad שלי‬

‫ב-30.11.2013, בשעה 15:58, ‏"Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:‬

 

I have an ICOM PS66, DC-DC Converter. It is rated for 30 Amps and uses technology that is designed for radio transmitters and receivers.

This was installed by Amel when BeBe was manufactured.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:
 

dear bill

can you maybe write what converter is installed on your boat? i did not find any isolated converter.

thanks
lior


ב-30 בנוב 2013, בשעה 14:50, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Captain Pillar,

On all of the Super Maramus I have seen, there are 3 of the Thrane & Thrane Sailor N420 24VDC to 12VDC converter/regulators. These are located inside the right door below the nav table.

One of these Sailor N420's is for 12V instruments (B&G Hydra or other), another for 12V VHF and the third for 12V accessories like the AM/FM Stereo and cigarette lighter. Each of these has a maximum rated output of 8 amps.

The IC M802 requires a maximum of 30 amps in Transmit...3 amps in Receive.

Your installation is not only wrong, it is likely dangerous.

Bill
BeBe



On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Richard Piller <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric.
Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 
On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 
1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 
Fair winds 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



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SPAMfighter has removed 2389 of my spam emails to date.

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Mark Erdos
 

The Newmar 48-12-35I is a unit that is isolated and is rated to 25amp continuous and 35 amp peak. I have a tech support ticket open at Icom USA to find out if this would work with their M802. I will post their response. But, I’m guessing they will say it needs to be 30 amp continuous since that is what is stated in the manual. I’ve never known tech support to override the manual.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Bill & Judy Rouse
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:54 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Lior,

 

If you are looking at PowerVerter, you will need a 24 / 30 A PV24i. Isolated

Input to Output.

 

On SM #387, Amel used a ICOM PS66 , DC-DC Converter which is 24 volts to 12 volts with 30 amps output. I know the Icom works very well. I no nothing about PowerVerter...may be good...I do not know.

 

Bill

BeBe

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Lior Keydar <lior246@...> wrote:

 

thanks bill

 

i really do not understand it so good.

there are from alfatronix "non isolated common negative" or "isolated input to output" converters. 

 

could you maybe tell me what is the right one? or am i completally wrong?

 

thanks a lot

lior

 

‫נשלח מה-iPad שלי


‫ב-30.11.2013, בשעה 15:58, ‏"Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

I have an ICOM PS66, DC-DC Converter. It is rated for 30 Amps and uses technology that is designed for radio transmitters and receivers.

 

This was installed by Amel when BeBe was manufactured.

 

Bill

BeBe, SM2k, #387

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:

 

dear bill

 

can you maybe write what converter is installed on your boat? i did not find any isolated converter.

 

thanks

lior

 


ב-30 בנוב 2013, בשעה 14:50, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Captain Pillar,

 

On all of the Super Maramus I have seen, there are 3 of the Thrane & Thrane Sailor N420 24VDC to 12VDC converter/regulators. These are located inside the right door below the nav table.

 

One of these Sailor N420's is for 12V instruments (B&G Hydra or other), another for 12V VHF and the third for 12V accessories like the AM/FM Stereo and cigarette lighter. Each of these has a maximum rated output of 8 amps.

 

The IC M802 requires a maximum of 30 amps in Transmit...3 amps in Receive.

 

Your installation is not only wrong, it is likely dangerous.

 

Bill

BeBe

 

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Richard Piller <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric.

Sorry for the text I did this using a speakerphone dictating and it did not come out right. 

On my factory supplied single side band there are several sailor 24 to 12 V inverters under the net station they power the SSB.  My Icom 8O2 is a 12 volt unit and it works perfectly using the Amel supplied Sailor units installation. 

1998 SM 209 in Newport RI for sale. 

Fair winds 

Regards

Capt Richard Piller


On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:09, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 

SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 

Richard Piller


On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego

 


I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
SPAMfighter has removed 2389 of my spam emails to date.

Do you have a slow PC? Try a free scan!