[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin ground strap


Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

I have only seen a grounding copper in the stern  lazarette on my 1990 Santorin SN24 and that is primarily for the SSB.

Ric

Bali Hai

Stuck in Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:59 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin ground strap

 

 

Herbert
I am back on the boat tomorrow in Tenerife. I will check my bilge again. I can't recall seeing an earth attachment point anywhere near the bilge as there is in the lazarette. I would expect to see some green and yellow wires connected somewhere.
It may be they fitted them on the later Santorin's.
Keep in touch, it would be good to be sure!!

Ian


rossienio@...
 

Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


karkauai
 

Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

Look at the top of the ground strap on your SM. You will see the attachment of all of the yellow/green wires from each of the items that are "bonded."

One of those wires runs back to the stern and is connected to the rudder post and zincs.

The bottom of the ground strap is connected to a SS  keel stud, secured by a large SS nut...30mm if my memory is correct. To loosen the nut, you will need about 3 feet of 1/2" drive extentions and a 30mm socket. There are photos. Search photos for "ground strap"

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 1:01 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


Patrick McAneny
 

After two years in the water (fresh) I see very little degradation of the zinc on the rudder. I would expect some , never have seen much . Should I be concerned that it is not connected somehow and not doing its job. Thanks, Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Oct 1, 2014 3:10 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin ground strap

 
Kent,
Look at the top of the ground strap on your SM. You will see the attachment of all of the yellow/green wires from each of the items that are "bonded."
One of those wires runs back to the stern and is connected to the rudder post and zincs.
The bottom of the ground strap is connected to a SS  keel stud, secured by a large SS nut...30mm if my memory is correct. To loosen the nut, you will need about 3 feet of 1/2" drive extentions and a 30mm socket. There are photos. Search photos for "ground strap"
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet
On Oct 1, 2014 1:01 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Pat,

Here is what I have done:

In the water I used a meter to check continuity between the termination of the green/yellow wire on the rudder post to the top of the ground strap where all of the green/yellow wires connect.

Out of the water, from the zinc back to the top of the ground strap.

I have no experience with fresh water and zinc deterioration, but have heard that aluminum is used for anodes in fresh water. Ask some of your fellow fresh water neighbors about this.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 2:41 PM, "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

After two years in the water (fresh) I see very little degradation of the zinc on the rudder. I would expect some , never have seen much . Should I be concerned that it is not connected somehow and not doing its job. Thanks, Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Oct 1, 2014 3:10 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin ground strap

 
Kent,
Look at the top of the ground strap on your SM. You will see the attachment of all of the yellow/green wires from each of the items that are "bonded."
One of those wires runs back to the stern and is connected to the rudder post and zincs.
The bottom of the ground strap is connected to a SS  keel stud, secured by a large SS nut...30mm if my memory is correct. To loosen the nut, you will need about 3 feet of 1/2" drive extentions and a 30mm socket. There are photos. Search photos for "ground strap"
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet
On Oct 1, 2014 1:01 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


rossienio@...
 

Good evenig, in  the fresh water (conductivity < 0,1 Siemens/meter) we use magnesium based anodes, such as those the water heater. Greetings.


karkauai
 

That answers my question, thanks.  So the keel is bonded as is everything else, to the zincs via a large green/yellow wire that connects to the zincs via a strap that's buried in the hull epoxy.  That sound right?


On Oct 1, 2014, at 3:10 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Look at the top of the ground strap on your SM. You will see the attachment of all of the yellow/green wires from each of the items that are "bonded."

One of those wires runs back to the stern and is connected to the rudder post and zincs.

The bottom of the ground strap is connected to a SS  keel stud, secured by a large SS nut...30mm if my memory is correct. To loosen the nut, you will need about 3 feet of 1/2" drive extentions and a 30mm socket. There are photos. Search photos for "ground strap"

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 1:01 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I do not think that is accurate for 387.

I am mostly sure that all green/yellow wires terminate at the ground strap,  and that there is a green/yellow wire that connects the ground strap to the rudder post which is connected to the zincs.

There is a copper foil buried in the hull, but it goes to the SSB ground on the skeg.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 6:08 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

That answers my question, thanks.  So the keel is bonded as is everything else, to the zincs via a large green/yellow wire that connects to the zincs via a strap that's buried in the hull epoxy.  That sound right?


On Oct 1, 2014, at 3:10 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Look at the top of the ground strap on your SM. You will see the attachment of all of the yellow/green wires from each of the items that are "bonded."

One of those wires runs back to the stern and is connected to the rudder post and zincs.

The bottom of the ground strap is connected to a SS  keel stud, secured by a large SS nut...30mm if my memory is correct. To loosen the nut, you will need about 3 feet of 1/2" drive extentions and a 30mm socket. There are photos. Search photos for "ground strap"

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 1:01 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


karkauai
 

I'll check when I get back on the boat and see if I can follow a wire to the rudder.  There has to be one since my zincs are eroding enough to need replacing every 6-8 months.

The bonding strap is there to prevent damage to the keel, not as the final termination of the bonding system....right?

Sigh...maybe I'll understand it all one day.

Thanks again
Kent
SM243
KRISTY


On Oct 1, 2014, at 11:14 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I do not think that is accurate for 387.

I am mostly sure that all green/yellow wires terminate at the ground strap,  and that there is a green/yellow wire that connects the ground strap to the rudder post which is connected to the zincs.

There is a copper foil buried in the hull, but it goes to the SSB ground on the skeg.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 6:08 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

That answers my question, thanks.  So the keel is bonded as is everything else, to the zincs via a large green/yellow wire that connects to the zincs via a strap that's buried in the hull epoxy.  That sound right?


On Oct 1, 2014, at 3:10 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Look at the top of the ground strap on your SM. You will see the attachment of all of the yellow/green wires from each of the items that are "bonded."

One of those wires runs back to the stern and is connected to the rudder post and zincs.

The bottom of the ground strap is connected to a SS  keel stud, secured by a large SS nut...30mm if my memory is correct. To loosen the nut, you will need about 3 feet of 1/2" drive extentions and a 30mm socket. There are photos. Search photos for "ground strap"

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Oct 1, 2014 1:01 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi sailors,
Just out of curiosity, does the bonding strap in the bilge attach to the rudder zincs?  I can see it bonding to the keel, but how does it (if it does) go from there to the rudder?  If not, where does it go from the keel bolt in the bilge?  If it doesn't go from the bilge to the rudder zincs, is it a way to get the keel bonded to the zincs via another route?  If so, what is that route to the rudder?
Duh,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY



On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:44 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Goog day to all . It seems to me that the bonding is s very important thing for the survival of our boats. How could you to do to get an official response of the yard AMEL on this? There is an after-sales service of AMEL?? Greetings


rossienio@...
 

Good day Kent, is clear to me that the cast-iron keel (iron+carbon) is not the end of sacrifical bonding, but itself must be protected by zinc on the rudder. 
But i cannot tell if the keel on SANTORIN is connected to the bonding or not.And if it is relared how????????  Greetings. Enio.


rossienio@...
 

Last we 've found on my Santorin the ground strap linking the bonding wires to a keel bolt. The copper strip is on the starboard side of the bildge on the back of the bildge suction pump FEIT. The bonding wires (yellow/green) should be connected behind the noice insulation. I think will be good to see, remove the float tube and the suction of the pump. Could someone give me some guidance???Thanks to all and greetings. Enio


rossienio@...
 

good morning, ameliens. I have the need to change the ground strap and ask who did it, how do I remove the bildge float switch assembly from the well???? Tanks


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I will answer you as to how it is done on a Super Maramu 2000. Also, you should review the photos at: 

Removing the bilge sump float switch assembly, cleaning the bilge and hoses:
  1. Unplug the two wires going to the float switch and tape the terminals so that they do not short.
  2. The float tube assembly is held in place by gravity (it rests on the bottom of the sump) and by a gray plastic clip that is about 40(+/-)cm from the top of the tube. 
  3. Pull the tube assembly toward you and the gray plastic clip will enlarge and free itself from the tube assembly.
  4. Have an empty bucket available and pull the tube upward placing the bucket under the bottom. The bucket will catch bilge water that you do not want getting on other things in the engine room.
  5. Take the float tube assembly on deck and clean it thoroughly.
  6. You probably will want to remove the gray plastic clip if you are going to be cleaning the sump. It is secured with one screw. Carefully remove the screw preventing any of the parts or screw from falling into the sump. If it is not obvious, mark where the screw was secured so that you can locate that spot during re-assembly.
  7. Using the hand bilge pump, pump as much as possible out of the sump.
  8. Pull the automatic pump hose out of the bilge and place the end of the hose in the bucket. If it is not too dirty, you can clean it in the engine room, but you may have to disconnect the hose at the pump and clean it on deck. Also inspect the strainer and the one-way "Joker" valve inside the strainer. The one-way "Joker" valve has a life of about 5 years and the hose begins to harden in 5 years. If it has been 5 years since these were new, plan on replacing them. If you replace the hose, buy clear reinforced hose so that you can see the water inside the hose. To test the one-way "Joker" valve, with the hose on deck, elevate the pump connection end of the hose and fill the hose with water...if the water leaks more than a few drops, the one-way "Joker" valve needs to be replaced.
  9. Repeat 7 above for the manual pump hose, but there is no strainer or one-way "Joker" valve on it.
  10. Using a wet/dry vacuum, vacuum the remainder of water and trash from the sump.
  11. The bilge sump may need cleaning. Use a good cleaner, brush and possibly a pressure washer. Rinse it well and you will need the wet/dry vacuum to get everything out again
  12. The nut holding the ground strap is 30mm. you will need several extensions of about 1 meter total.
  13. Refer to the photos above.
  14. reverse the order above to reassemble. 
Hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe
387

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:54 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

good morning, ameliens. I have the need to change the ground strap and ask who did it, how do I remove the bildge float switch assembly from the well???? Tanks



Mark Erdos
 

On Cream Puff (you do not state your Amel type or hull number), the float switch is remove by disconnecting the power supply and pulling the large tube aft out of the clip-in bracket. It is very easy to remove. I take it out when cleaning the bilge.

 

BeBe has some awesome instructions for replacing the ground strap: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/search/photos?query=ground#zax/albums_138287824

 

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:54 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin ground strap

 

 

good morning, ameliens. I have the need to change the ground strap and ask who did it, how do I remove the bildge float switch assembly from the well???? Tanks


rossienio@...
 

Thanks guys. Here's another reason to choose AMEL. I go down to the cellar to work. Hello. Enio


sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

The only thing I can add to a very great explanation of cleaning the bilge is that I purchased a long handled brush that is used to clean cobwebs from ceilings. The bristles are strong and the handle is quite long. It can be used for about 2 cleanings before it is too gross to store. So far it is an excellent brust as the handle is quite long.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite SM 376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 10:04 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin ground strap

 

 

I will answer you as to how it is done on a Super Maramu 2000. Also, you should review the photos at: 

 

Removing the bilge sump float switch assembly, cleaning the bilge and hoses:

  1. Unplug the two wires going to the float switch and tape the terminals so that they do not short.
  2. The float tube assembly is held in place by gravity (it rests on the bottom of the sump) and by a gray plastic clip that is about 40(+/-)cm from the top of the tube. 
  3. Pull the tube assembly toward you and the gray plastic clip will enlarge and free itself from the tube assembly.
  4. Have an empty bucket available and pull the tube upward placing the bucket under the bottom. The bucket will catch bilge water that you do not want getting on other things in the engine room.
  5. Take the float tube assembly on deck and clean it thoroughly.
  6. You probably will want to remove the gray plastic clip if you are going to be cleaning the sump. It is secured with one screw. Carefully remove the screw preventing any of the parts or screw from falling into the sump. If it is not obvious, mark where the screw was secured so that you can locate that spot during re-assembly.
  7. Using the hand bilge pump, pump as much as possible out of the sump.
  8. Pull the automatic pump hose out of the bilge and place the end of the hose in the bucket. If it is not too dirty, you can clean it in the engine room, but you may have to disconnect the hose at the pump and clean it on deck. Also inspect the strainer and the one-way "Joker" valve inside the strainer. The one-way "Joker" valve has a life of about 5 years and the hose begins to harden in 5 years. If it has been 5 years since these were new, plan on replacing them. If you replace the hose, buy clear reinforced hose so that you can see the water inside the hose. To test the one-way "Joker" valve, with the hose on deck, elevate the pump connection end of the hose and fill the hose with water...if the water leaks more than a few drops, the one-way "Joker" valve needs to be replaced.
  9. Repeat 7 above for the manual pump hose, but there is no strainer or one-way "Joker" valve on it.
  10. Using a wet/dry vacuum, vacuum the remainder of water and trash from the sump.
  11. The bilge sump may need cleaning. Use a good cleaner, brush and possibly a pressure washer. Rinse it well and you will need the wet/dry vacuum to get everything out again
  12. The nut holding the ground strap is 30mm. you will need several extensions of about 1 meter total.
  13. Refer to the photos above.
  14. reverse the order above to reassemble. 

Hope this helps.

 

Bill

BeBe

387

 

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:54 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

good morning, ameliens. I have the need to change the ground strap and ask who did it, how do I remove the bildge float switch assembly from the well???? Tanks

 


Rink De Haan
 

I used the pictures of Bill and gave them to a mechanic in Kusadasi Turkey, who was able to do this job following the same procedure.
I also used the same thickness of the copper strap as Bill used but have no scientific expalanation of which thickness to use.
The old one was completely rotten away.

Rink de Haan
Razor's Edge Sm2K #330


jsrogers@...
 

Sometimes the zinc is installed over painted bottom which would also block conductance between the zinc and the rudder.  On my SM I have sanded the paint off prior to installing the zinc.

John Rogers
SM 105
Its Good
Deltaville, MD


kimberlite@...