[Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu Jib Furling Specs Summary:


Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Hi Gary
I don't remember the exact amont of ball bearing for the swivel, but if you look in the document in the Files section it specified there. I would also recommend you to replace the GRP tube that also os mentioned in the document. 

The rivets has the size of 6,4 x19 mm 

Best regards
Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM 232 from 1998.

Skickat från min iPad

27 dec 2014 kl. 14:34 skrev "amelliahona" <no_reply@...>:

 

Hello to all contributors to this forum:


I am headed to Antigua in a few days to install all new standing rigging on my Hulll #335 SM, built 2001.  I purchased the entire replacement rigging, right down to the clevis pins, from ACMO (Sylvie was extremely helpful) and it was air freighted from France to Antigua (3 days enroute, a week to clear customs and make its way to my boat).


I have been pursuing this forum for specifications on items I will need and thus far find the following:


Top Swivel Specifications: Torlon 10 mm ball bearings. (actual diameter on the Harken web site of 9.5 mm)  - Quantity:  26 balls per row, times two rows (total 52 balls) for the swivel at the head of jib sail foil.


Rivets for jib foil extrusion to furling motor swivel (the grooved cast swivel that engages the furling motor gearbox via a latching pin):  As I have searched this site I see that Joel Potter indicates that Amel used Monel (also known as stainless steel) rivets.  I could not find that anyone posted the size of these rivets (both diameter and length).  Quantity required:  8


NEED TO KNOW:  Diameter and Length of these Monel rivets


If there are other specifications related to this job please chime in and I will compile them into a document that can be placed in the files section.  This hopefully will save members having to endure the cumbersome search that I just went through. 


Best to all, 


Gary Silver

s/v Liahona


karkauai
 

Hi, Ann-Sophie,
I don't remember where I read it, but someone on this forum a few years ago (I think) said that the rivets were aluminum, and by design would break before the foil was damaged if something got stuck at the top of the mast.  I am about to remount my jib furler and was going to use aluminum rivets.

Does anyone remember this?  Olivier?  Joel?

Thanks,
Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still on the hard in Fernandina Beach, FL awaiting my new C-drive from Amel...to be shipped after Jan 1.



From: "Ann-Sofie Svanberg kanalmamman@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu Jib Furling Specs Summary:

 
Hi Gary
I don't remember the exact amont of ball bearing for the swivel, but if you look in the document in the Files section it specified there. I would also recommend you to replace the GRP tube that also os mentioned in the document. 

The rivets has the size of 6,4 x19 mm 

Best regards
Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM 232 from 1998.

Skickat från min iPad

27 dec 2014 kl. 14:34 skrev "amelliahona" <no_reply@...>:

 
Hello to all contributors to this forum:

I am headed to Antigua in a few days to install all new standing rigging on my Hulll #335 SM, built 2001.  I purchased the entire replacement rigging, right down to the clevis pins, from ACMO (Sylvie was extremely helpful) and it was air freighted from France to Antigua (3 days enroute, a week to clear customs and make its way to my boat).

I have been pursuing this forum for specifications on items I will need and thus far find the following:

Top Swivel Specifications: Torlon 10 mm ball bearings. (actual diameter on the Harken web site of 9.5 mm)  - Quantity:  26 balls per row, times two rows (total 52 balls) for the swivel at the head of jib sail foil.

Rivets for jib foil extrusion to furling motor swivel (the grooved cast swivel that engages the furling motor gearbox via a latching pin):  As I have searched this site I see that Joel Potter indicates that Amel used Monel (also known as stainless steel) rivets.  I could not find that anyone posted the size of these rivets (both diameter and length).  Quantity required:  8

NEED TO KNOW:  Diameter and Length of these Monel rivets

If there are other specifications related to this job please chime in and I will compile them into a document that can be placed in the files section.  This hopefully will save members having to endure the cumbersome search that I just went through. 

Best to all, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona



amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Ann-Sophie

Thanks for the specifications on the rivets.  When I locate a source here in the USA I will post a link, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona  SM 335


Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

We use the aluminium since we want the rivets to brake before any other damages. If we remeber right, the first rivets was ordered from Amel and they were aluminium. They are easy to replace if you have the tool onboard. Which we recomend you to have!

Are you continuing south after your mast replacement? We will go slowly north grom Grenada to St Martin. Leaving St Martin for Europe in Mid late April, if you want to meet, which would be nice! Just look for the Amel SM With the swedish flag and a yellow dinghy on aft deck.

Regards
Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM232

Skickat från min iPad

27 dec 2014 kl. 22:56 skrev "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi, Ann-Sophie,
I don't remember where I read it, but someone on this forum a few years ago (I think) said that the rivets were aluminum, and by design would break before the foil was damaged if something got stuck at the top of the mast.  I am about to remount my jib furler and was going to use aluminum rivets.

Does anyone remember this?  Olivier?  Joel?

Thanks,
Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still on the hard in Fernandina Beach, FL awaiting my new C-drive from Amel...to be shipped after Jan 1.


From: "Ann-Sofie Svanberg kanalmamman@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu Jib Furling Specs Summary:

 
Hi Gary
I don't remember the exact amont of ball bearing for the swivel, but if you look in the document in the Files section it specified there. I would also recommend you to replace the GRP tube that also os mentioned in the document. 

The rivets has the size of 6,4 x19 mm 

Best regards
Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM 232 from 1998.

Skickat från min iPad

27 dec 2014 kl. 14:34 skrev "amelliahona" <no_reply@...>:

 
Hello to all contributors to this forum:

I am headed to Antigua in a few days to install all new standing rigging on my Hulll #335 SM, built 2001.  I purchased the entire replacement rigging, right down to the clevis pins, from ACMO (Sylvie was extremely helpful) and it was air freighted from France to Antigua (3 days enroute, a week to clear customs and make its way to my boat).

I have been pursuing this forum for specifications on items I will need and thus far find the following:

Top Swivel Specifications: Torlon 10 mm ball bearings. (actual diameter on the Harken web site of 9.5 mm)  - Quantity:  26 balls per row, times two rows (total 52 balls) for the swivel at the head of jib sail foil.

Rivets for jib foil extrusion to furling motor swivel (the grooved cast swivel that engages the furling motor gearbox via a latching pin):  As I have searched this site I see that Joel Potter indicates that Amel used Monel (also known as stainless steel) rivets.  I could not find that anyone posted the size of these rivets (both diameter and length).  Quantity required:  8

NEED TO KNOW:  Diameter and Length of these Monel rivets

If there are other specifications related to this job please chime in and I will compile them into a document that can be placed in the files section.  This hopefully will save members having to endure the cumbersome search that I just went through. 

Best to all, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona



Beaute Olivier
 

Good afternoon,

when AMEL decided to make their own masts, they worked together with NIRVANA.
When NIRVANA went bankrupt, AMEL decided to supervise the whole process:
-have alu profiles made in switzerland
-have the profiles worked out and welded from a subcontractor in La Rochelle
-have the masts painted at another subcontractor's in La Rochelle
-equip the masts at the shipyard with AMEL own designed furlers
-rig the masts with shrouds available on the market

The first suppliers were SARMA, a cable manufacturer that worked mainly for aircrafts. SARMA was used to make left hand turnbuckles and there was no question from AMEL against that.
The last Mangos, Sharkis and Maramus were rigged with SARMA products.
The first SMs (1989) were rigged with SARMA products, but the first SANTORINS were rigged with ACMO and SOROMAP products.
When AMEL asked ACMO and SOROMAP to make riggings, they wanted to have left hand turnbuckles, to avoid having both kinds.
When SARMA stopped supplying AMEL, AMEL asked ACMO to make the SM riggings, according to the same standards, which means here left hand turnbuckles.

A little pause: For someone who has already set a rigging on a Super Maramu (I did), and who is right handed (I am), it is easier to do on a left hand turn buckle (why???).
Indeed, you hold the cable terminal with a wrench with your left hand, and you turn the buckle with your right hand with a second wrench, and you move it out of the buckle to take it on the other half, and you turn, and you etc...
And it is easier to apply a big force towards your body, than outwards.
When, later on, I had to set riggings with right hand turn buckles, I first pushed hard outwards with my right hand, and eventually, I started to use my left hand (holding tight the cable's terminal with my right hand and turn the buckle with my left hand).

Back to the story:
Around 2004, I don't remember exactly, AMEL realized that ACMO made left hand turnbuckles almost only for them, and that a right hand turnbuckle would be cheaper. AMEL then installed right hand turnbuckles.

When you change your standing rigging, you may not want to change the turnbuckles because they are easier to inspect than the Inside of the swages. If you have a left hand system, keep it and specify this when you order.
However, it may be good to replace the turnbuckles too: after a dismasting, for instance after a collision that broke one turnbuckle (and dismasting), the surveyor (if he's good) will notice that the turnbuckles are older than the replaced rigging, and the insurers may refuse compensation.

Conclusion:
there is no specific reason why AMEL had left hand turnbuckles, and now right hand ones (except cost cuts).
You may replace your left hand rigging with a right hand one.

The 2004/2005 SM owners will tell us which hull number has a right hand system and which has a left one...

Best wishes for the end of this year!!

Olivier BEAUTE


karkauai
 

Merci beaucoup for the history lesson, Olivier.  As usual, Mssr Amel had a good reason for the L hand turnbuckles (can we assume he was right-handed?).  So now it's a matter of each owner deciding if that advantage is worth the extra cost.  That choice should not influence resale value.

Thanks again,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Dec 28, 2014, at 8:58 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good afternoon,

when AMEL decided to make their own masts, they worked together with NIRVANA.
When NIRVANA went bankrupt, AMEL decided to supervise the whole process:
-have alu profiles made in switzerland
-have the profiles worked out and welded from a subcontractor in La Rochelle
-have the masts painted at another subcontractor's in La Rochelle
-equip the masts at the shipyard with AMEL own designed furlers
-rig the masts with shrouds available on the market

The first suppliers were SARMA, a cable manufacturer that worked mainly for aircrafts. SARMA was used to make left hand turnbuckles and there was no question from AMEL against that.
The last Mangos, Sharkis and Maramus were rigged with SARMA products.
The first SMs (1989) were rigged with SARMA products, but the first SANTORINS were rigged with ACMO and SOROMAP products.
When AMEL asked ACMO and SOROMAP to make riggings, they wanted to have left hand turnbuckles, to avoid having both kinds.
When SARMA stopped supplying AMEL, AMEL asked ACMO to make the SM riggings, according to the same standards, which means here left hand turnbuckles.

A little pause: For someone who has already set a rigging on a Super Maramu (I did), and who is right handed (I am), it is easier to do on a left hand turn buckle (why???).
Indeed, you hold the cable terminal with a wrench with your left hand, and you turn the buckle with your right hand with a second wrench, and you move it out of the buckle to take it on the other half, and you turn, and you etc...
And it is easier to apply a big force towards your body, than outwards.
When, later on, I had to set riggings with right hand turn buckles, I first pushed hard outwards with my right hand, and eventually, I started to use my left hand (holding tight the cable's terminal with my right hand and turn the buckle with my left hand).

Back to the story:
Around 2004, I don't remember exactly, AMEL realized that ACMO made left hand turnbuckles almost only for them, and that a right hand turnbuckle would be cheaper. AMEL then installed right hand turnbuckles.

When you change your standing rigging, you may not want to change the turnbuckles because they are easier to inspect than the Inside of the swages. If you have a left hand system, keep it and specify this when you order.
However, it may be good to replace the turnbuckles too: after a dismasting, for instance after a collision that broke one turnbuckle (and dismasting), the surveyor (if he's good) will notice that the turnbuckles are older than the replaced rigging, and the insurers may refuse compensation.

Conclusion:
there is no specific reason why AMEL had left hand turnbuckles, and now right hand ones (except cost cuts).
You may replace your left hand rigging with a right hand one.

The 2004/2005 SM owners will tell us which hull number has a right hand system and which has a left one...

Best wishes for the end of this year!!

Olivier BEAUTE