Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?


Nat Bossett
 

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 06:34:41AM -0700, magick.crow@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I have been thinking about making an electric only Amel. I am just
wondering what you guys think of this idea.
My Maramu now has 70hp (originally 60 I think). Judging from a for-sale
ad, the new 64's are in the 150 hp range so that gives us a ballpark.

If I wanted to be able to enter somewhere such as my home port of San
Francisco against the tide, I'd want to be able to steam at a good speed
for several hours at a bare minimum.

I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised if you work out the AH
requirements for the size of your battery bank even if you are happy with
scaled back max power.

Your comment about waiting for the sun seems to indicate that you're
thinking about a pure solar system, not just removing the diesel while
keeping a big genset.

In that case:

On a pure electrical system, even pulling a few hundred feet of anchor
chain in against current with the windlass and electric motor would be a
relatively big A-H requirement to count on pulling out of the batteries
when you really need to, not just when the sun has been shining for a
while.

-Nathan

Maramu #29


Douglas E Knapp DEK
 

Thank you Mr. Bossett for your perspective! I am not an engineer although I am good at math and worked as a programmer, I am working my way through the solution. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated.

From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:
The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm – 55 kW at 3500 rpm).
The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.
Fuel tank: 160 gallons
Range? Not to sure about this.
Bow thrusters 10 hp.

The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that 60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to recharge. The car has a 90 kWh battery in the top model and a range of about 268 miles or 426 km and 713 lb-ft motor torque. This seems to be about 4 hours of driving time. Not enough to even get through a whole night. Of course ships can easily carry much bigger batteries.

I am also thinking that a system for a ship would not need the instant torque and quick bursts of speed that car needs. A slow endurance system is the best thing. This  would likely mean a big savings in power usage under way.

So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that so we could say 1200 watts at full sun. This does not even come close to being enough to run the 60 hp motors so it must come from the batteries and this means that changing times will be needed and this will be while under sail or at port.

I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not. Ideally I would do without it.

I am still in the dreaming phase, the brainstorming phase. Collecting the facts and finding the limits.

I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun time there is in between motoring times?

Thanks again for your input.

--
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Mark Erdos
 

If you are going to reinvent it, why not invent one that runs off salt water? J

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Norfolk VA.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 5:54 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

 

 

Thank you Mr. Bossett for your perspective! I am not an engineer although I am good at math and worked as a programmer, I am working my way through the solution. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated.

 

From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:

The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm – 55 kW at 3500 rpm).

The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.

Fuel tank: 160 gallons

Range? Not to sure about this.

Bow thrusters 10 hp.

 

The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that 60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to recharge. The car has a 90 kWh battery in the top model and a range of about 268 miles or 426 km and 713 lb-ft motor torque. This seems to be about 4 hours of driving time. Not enough to even get through a whole night. Of course ships can easily carry much bigger batteries.

 

I am also thinking that a system for a ship would not need the instant torque and quick bursts of speed that car needs. A slow endurance system is the best thing. This  would likely mean a big savings in power usage under way.

 

So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that so we could say 1200 watts at full sun. This does not even come close to being enough to run the 60 hp motors so it must come from the batteries and this means that changing times will be needed and this will be while under sail or at port.

 

I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not. Ideally I would do without it.

 

I am still in the dreaming phase, the brainstorming phase. Collecting the facts and finding the limits.

 

I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun time there is in between motoring times?

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

--

Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Nat Bossett
 

To answer the main question, this would be a tinkerer thing to do and
likely to gut the resale value of the boat. That said, let's look at it
for your own needs.

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 11:53:30PM +0200, Knapp magick.crow@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] wrote:
From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:
The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm ??? 55 kW at 3500
rpm).
The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.
How fast does a SM2000 go through the water at 1500 RPM? At 2500 RPM?

Bow thrusters 10 hp.
You don't use it much; this isn't the worry.

The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that
60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how
long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to
recharge.
The second sentence is getting to the importantn part: A high end Tesla
may put out hundreds of horsepower when you slam the pedal down, but it
only takes a few seconds to get up to speed.

The continual draw running down the highway is much, much less.

The marine diesel, on the other hand, is going to need to put out a good
fraction of its peak power for the whole trip.

So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super
maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that
so we could say 1200 watts at full sun.
1200 watts is about 1.6HP.

I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not.
Ideally I would do without it.
If you want to go through the exercise, let's get the answers to how fast
you go at 1500 and 2500 RPM. We can then back-of-a-napkin some numbers to
see what battery capacities are required to let you fight current entering
and exiting harbors, etc.

I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun
time there is in between motoring times?
Depends on the cruising pattern, and also on what other devices are
pulling power. I'm guessing that most Amel owners make significant use of
the autopilot at least and possibly things like watermakers.

-Nathan

Maramu #29


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Douglas E Knapp, Advanced Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Expert

I suggest that before you absolutely ruin an Amel Super Maramu that you arrange a séance with Henri Amel and ask him why he did make an electric Amel when he was alive. I would also ask him if he would mind if someone takes one of the finest cruising yachts ever produced and bastardize it.

If Henri says that he supports your electrification scheme, I happen to know where the world's most mistreated Super Maramu is located. I think it needs a new C drive, a new motor, a new generator, a new bow thruster, new interior, new rigging, standing and running, and new sails. Although the asking price is $319,000, when the owner finally realizes what he has, or the bank repossesses it, it could be the boat that you are looking for.

Any electrifying conditions other than above would be nuts!

Good luck, and I suggest a premium membership with Cruiser's Forum where you will get much better input on your ideas. There are some real experts there.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse, Admiral (Hon) Texas Navy
Yacht BeBe, SM #387, Currently Gibraltar
+1832-380-4970 Global Voice Mail
+34 600 659 769 Spain Mobile

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Nathan Bossett nbossett@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

To answer the main question, this would be a tinkerer thing to do and
likely to gut the resale value of the boat. That said, let's look at it
for your own needs.

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 11:53:30PM +0200, Knapp magick.crow@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:
> The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm ??? 55 kW at 3500
> rpm).
> The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.

How fast does a SM2000 go through the water at 1500 RPM? At 2500 RPM?

> Bow thrusters 10 hp.

You don't use it much; this isn't the worry.

> The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that
> 60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how
> long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to
> recharge.

The second sentence is getting to the importantn part: A high end Tesla
may put out hundreds of horsepower when you slam the pedal down, but it
only takes a few seconds to get up to speed.

The continual draw running down the highway is much, much less.

The marine diesel, on the other hand, is going to need to put out a good
fraction of its peak power for the whole trip.

> So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super
> maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that
> so we could say 1200 watts at full sun.

1200 watts is about 1.6HP.

> I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not.
> Ideally I would do without it.

If you want to go through the exercise, let's get the answers to how fast
you go at 1500 and 2500 RPM. We can then back-of-a-napkin some numbers to
see what battery capacities are required to let you fight current entering
and exiting harbors, etc.

> I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun
> time there is in between motoring times?

Depends on the cruising pattern, and also on what other devices are
pulling power. I'm guessing that most Amel owners make significant use of
the autopilot at least and possibly things like watermakers.

-Nathan

Maramu #29



Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Could we also convert the Water maker as a Champagne Maker?

Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Staniel Cay Yacht Club, Exumas, Bahamas




--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 10/7/15, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2015, 8:36 AM


 









If you are going to reinvent it, why
not invent one that runs off salt water? J
     With best
regards,  Mark  Super Maramu
2000Hull
#275www.creampuff.usCurrently
cruising:  Norfolk VA.
 From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 5:54
PM
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would
you buy all electric no diesel
Amel?    Thank you Mr. Bossett for
your perspective! I am not an engineer although I am good at
math and worked as a programmer, I am working my way through
the solution. Any help anyone can give is greatly
appreciated.
 From the
super maramu 2000 user's manual:The auxiliary engine is a
YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm – 55 kW at 3500
rpm).The
most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500
and 2500 rpm.Fuel tank: 160
gallonsRange? Not to sure about
this.Bow
thrusters 10 hp.  The Tesla car puts out 259 hp
front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that 60 should be
quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is
how long can it sustain that power output and how long will
it take to recharge. The car has a 90 kWh battery in the top
model and a range of about 268 miles or 426 km and 713 lb-ft
motor torque. This seems to be about 4 hours of driving
time. Not enough to even get through a whole night. Of
course ships can easily carry much bigger
batteries.  I am also
thinking that a system for a ship would not need the instant
torque and quick bursts of speed that car needs. A
slow endurance system is the best thing. This  would
likely mean a big savings in power usage under
way.
 So I was
assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a
super maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not
be hard to double that so we could say 1200 watts at full
sun. This does not even come close to being enough to run
the 60 hp motors so it must come from the batteries and this
means that changing times will be needed and this will be
while under sail or at port.  I was considering if it is
possible to dump the diesel generator or not. Ideally I
would do without it.  I am still in the dreaming
phase, the brainstorming phase. Collecting the facts and
finding the limits.  I am wondering how many hours
under engine power is normal and how much sun time there is
in between motoring times?  Thanks again for your
input.
 --
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM,
LAc.









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Mark Erdos
 

I like the way you think.







With best regards,



Mark



Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising: Norfolk VA



From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 2:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?






Could we also convert the Water maker as a Champagne Maker?

Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Staniel Cay Yacht Club, Exumas, Bahamas

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 10/7/15, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2015, 8:36 AM












If you are going to reinvent it, why
not invent one that runs off salt water? J
With best
regards, Mark Super Maramu
2000Hull
#275www.creampuff.usCurrently
cruising: Norfolk VA.
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 5:54
PM
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would
you buy all electric no diesel
Amel? Thank you Mr. Bossett for
your perspective! I am not an engineer although I am good at
math and worked as a programmer, I am working my way through
the solution. Any help anyone can give is greatly
appreciated.
From the
super maramu 2000 user's manual:The auxiliary engine is a
YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm – 55 kW at 3500
rpm).The
most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500
and 2500 rpm.Fuel tank: 160
gallonsRange? Not to sure about
this.Bow
thrusters 10 hp. The Tesla car puts out 259 hp
front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that 60 should be
quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is
how long can it sustain that power output and how long will
it take to recharge. The car has a 90 kWh battery in the top
model and a range of about 268 miles or 426 km and 713 lb-ft
motor torque. This seems to be about 4 hours of driving
time. Not enough to even get through a whole night. Of
course ships can easily carry much bigger
batteries. I am also
thinking that a system for a ship would not need the instant
torque and quick bursts of speed that car needs. A
slow endurance system is the best thing. This would
likely mean a big savings in power usage under
way.
So I was
assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a
super maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not
be hard to double that so we could say 1200 watts at full
sun. This does not even come close to being enough to run
the 60 hp motors so it must come from the batteries and this
means that changing times will be needed and this will be
while under sail or at port. I was considering if it is
possible to dump the diesel generator or not. Ideally I
would do without it. I am still in the dreaming
phase, the brainstorming phase. Collecting the facts and
finding the limits. I am wondering how many hours
under engine power is normal and how much sun time there is
in between motoring times? Thanks again for your
input.
--
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM,
LAc.









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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


amelforme
 

No. If I wanted to suffer that much I would buy a hair shirt and a bucket full of disco CD's.
Joel Potter


On Oct 7, 2015, at 1:42 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Douglas E Knapp, Advanced Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Expert

I suggest that before you absolutely ruin an Amel Super Maramu that you arrange a séance with Henri Amel and ask him why he did make an electric Amel when he was alive. I would also ask him if he would mind if someone takes one of the finest cruising yachts ever produced and bastardize it.

If Henri says that he supports your electrification scheme, I happen to know where the world's most mistreated Super Maramu is located. I think it needs a new C drive, a new motor, a new generator, a new bow thruster, new interior, new rigging, standing and running, and new sails. Although the asking price is $319,000, when the owner finally realizes what he has, or the bank repossesses it, it could be the boat that you are looking for.

Any electrifying conditions other than above would be nuts!

Good luck, and I suggest a premium membership with Cruiser's Forum where you will get much better input on your ideas. There are some real experts there.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse, Admiral (Hon) Texas Navy
Yacht BeBe, SM #387, Currently Gibraltar
+1832-380-4970 Global Voice Mail
+34 600 659 769 Spain Mobile

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Nathan Bossett nbossett@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

To answer the main question, this would be a tinkerer thing to do and
likely to gut the resale value of the boat. That said, let's look at it
for your own needs.

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 11:53:30PM +0200, Knapp magick.crow@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:
> The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm ??? 55 kW at 3500
> rpm).
> The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.

How fast does a SM2000 go through the water at 1500 RPM? At 2500 RPM?

> Bow thrusters 10 hp.

You don't use it much; this isn't the worry.

> The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that
> 60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how
> long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to
> recharge.

The second sentence is getting to the importantn part: A high end Tesla
may put out hundreds of horsepower when you slam the pedal down, but it
only takes a few seconds to get up to speed.

The continual draw running down the highway is much, much less.

The marine diesel, on the other hand, is going to need to put out a good
fraction of its peak power for the whole trip.

> So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super
> maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that
> so we could say 1200 watts at full sun.

1200 watts is about 1.6HP.

> I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not.
> Ideally I would do without it.

If you want to go through the exercise, let's get the answers to how fast
you go at 1500 and 2500 RPM. We can then back-of-a-napkin some numbers to
see what battery capacities are required to let you fight current entering
and exiting harbors, etc.

> I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun
> time there is in between motoring times?

Depends on the cruising pattern, and also on what other devices are
pulling power. I'm guessing that most Amel owners make significant use of
the autopilot at least and possibly things like watermakers.

-Nathan

Maramu #29