[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis


karkauai
 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

Kent 



On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
and this: 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
  1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

Kent 



On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.



karkauai
 

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your thoughts.

I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

Kent 
SM 243
Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
and this: 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
  1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

Kent 



On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.



eric freedman
 

Kent,

You should get 110 volts between the red and ground and 110 volts between the black and the ground. The ground and the white neutral should be the same, as the ground is connected to earth somewhere in the marina.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

 

The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

 

6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

 

I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

 

Kent 

SM 243

Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 

and this: 

 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:

  1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

 

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

 

Kent 

 


On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

 

I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

 

If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

 

I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

 

I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.

 


Mike Johnson
 

Hi Kent,

Have you considered getting a Silver-Silver Chloride probe and working your way around all the components.  This may have been discussed previously.


Very best wishes

Mike & Peta
Solitude
SM2K #461

On 1 Dec 2015, at 13:06, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your thoughts.

I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connec ted to 200V 50A shore power.

Kent 
SM 243
Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
and this: 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
< ol>
  • When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  • Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  • I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
  • Bill
    BeBe 387

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

    Kent 



    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.



    karkauai
     

    I think that what you are saying is right, Eric, but not when the A/C breakers are off, right?  I think the power is coming from somewhere other than the 220 panel.

    I'm thinking that the power to the A/C pump is coming from a relay box somewhere that powers the pump when any of the A/C units is turned on.  My Climma info says there should be one for multiple unit installations.  Does anyone know where that relay box is located on the boat?

    It's curious that I have 120VAC between either brown or blue and ground (and the bonding system), when the A/C breakers are off, but no voltage between brown and blue.  When the AC breakers are on, I get 240 between brown and blue and the pump works as it should.

    I just don't understand electricity well enough to surmise why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

    If anyone knows where the relay box is for the AC pump, that seems like a good place to start.

    As always, thanks for your input.
    Kent
    SM 243
    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:20 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    You should get 110 volts between the red and ground and 110 volts between the black and the ground. The ground and the white neutral should be the same, as the ground is connected to earth somewhere in the marina.

    Fair Winds

    Eric

    Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

     

     

    From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:07 AM
    To: amelyachtowners@...
    Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

     

     

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for your thoughts.

     

    I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

     

    The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

     

    6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

     

    I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

     

    Kent 

    SM 243

    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

     

    I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 

    and this: 

     

    A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:

    1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
    2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
    3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.

    Bill

    BeBe 387

     

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

     

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

     

    Kent 

     


    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

     

    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

     

    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

     

    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

     

    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.

     


    karkauai
     

    I have one Mike, and it has been reading -950mv all along...with or without shore power, generator, AC and/or DC appliances.

    But my zincs are disappearing too fast and I have a connection somewhere from AC ground to the bonding system.

    Obviously the reference electrode isn't a panacea.

    Kent 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Mike Johnson mike.k.johnson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    Have you considered getting a Silver-Silver Chloride probe and working your way around all the components.  This may have been discussed previously.


    Very best wishes

    Mike & Peta
    Solitude
    SM2K #461

    On 1 Dec 2015, at 13:06, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Bill,
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

    The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

    6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

    I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connec ted to 200V 50A shore power.

    Kent 
    SM 243
    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
    and this: 

    A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
    < ol>
  • When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  • Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  • I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
  • Bill
    BeBe 387

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

    Kent 



    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.



    karkauai
     

    I rechecked the wiring of the shore power plug and the wiring of the pedestal, and all appear to be correct.
    Kent 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
    and this: 

    A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
    1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
    2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
    3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
    Bill
    BeBe 387

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

    Kent 



    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.



    peacock@...
     

    Hi Kent,

    I've been following this a little, which might be a mistake on my part. We have also had problems with the 110/220 shore power cords.

    As far as I can see, there is NO WAY that you should be having 110 (or 124) volts if you are plugged into a 220V/50A except if the wiring is wrong. By the time the power gets into the working AC part of the boat, there is only a hot 220 and a neutral; the US system of two hot 110 wires has by then been dealt with. If you have 110 or 124, it must be coming from an incorrect wiring connection related somehow to your shore power. The wires come in through the cord, and then run to the box in the engine room where you can select 110 or 220 input. You might want to check that as well. Outside of a 110V inverter, an Amel should never see 110 (or 124) volts.


    karkauai
     

    Thanks, it's Tom isn't it?
    Actually, my understanding is that U.S. 220 shore power passes through the system unaltered, with the brown and blue wires each carrying 110VAC.  That's what I'm seeing at the A/C water pump, 120vAC from either the brown or the blue wire to the green/yellow wire, and 240vAV from the brown to the blue wire.

    There are two issues:
    1. There is a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system somewhere.
    2.  I'm getting 120vAC between the pump brown wire and ground, and between the blue wire and ground, but nothing between brown and blue with all A/C units OFF at the 220 panel. Withe any AC unit on, I get 120 with either brown or blue and ground, and 240 with brown and blue.

    I haven't checked it connected to 110vAC shore power.

    I just found the Climma A/C relay box that turns the pump on when  any one of the three A/C units is turned on.  It's in the engine room just below the automatic switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.
    I haven't investigated fully yet but at first glance I don't see any evidence of a burned out relay.  I'm pretty sure that the pump gets its power from here, not from the A/C units or 220 panel breakers.  It could be a bad relay supplying power to the pump.

    I'll know more after I tackle it again tomorrow.

    Thanks for your interest and suggestions,
    Kent 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 5:12 PM, peacock@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,


    I've been following this a little, which might be a mistake on my part. We have also had problems with the 110/220 shore power cords.

    As far as I can see, there is NO WAY that you should be having 110 (or 124) volts if you are plugged into a 220V/50A except if the wiring is wrong. By the time the power gets into the working AC part of the boat, there is only a hot 220 and a neutral; the US system of two hot 110 wires has by then been dealt with. If you have 110 or 124, it must be coming from an incorrect wiring connection related somehow to your shore power. The wires come in through the cord, and then run to the box in the engine room where you can select 110 or 220 input. You might want to check that as well. Outside of a 110V inverter, an Amel should never see 110 (or 124) volts.


    eric freedman
     

    Kent,

    You definitely have a problem is you have AC voltage between the bonding and either blue or brown.

    My guess is that there is a relay in each AC unit that can turn on the Calpeda pump.

     

    On the back of the pan of each Climma unit , there is a connector held on to the pan with Velcro. It is difficult to get to in the act cabin. It is flat and white. You might try unplugging each unit and see if that makes any difference,. This big white connector supplies the voltage and controls to each unit.

     

    I just had a thought- possibly there is a short in the Compressor that connects the AC unit to the bonding—just a thought off the top of my head.

    Fair Winds

    Eric

    Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

     

     

     

     

    From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:00 PM
    To: amelyachtowners@...
    Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

     

     

    I think that what you are saying is right, Eric, but not when the A/C breakers are off, right?  I think the power is coming from somewhere other than the 220 panel.

     

    I'm thinking that the power to the A/C pump is coming from a relay box somewhere that powers the pump when any of the A/C units is turned on.  My Climma info says there should be one for multiple unit installations.  Does anyone know where that relay box is located on the boat?

     

    It's curious that I have 120VAC between either brown or blue and ground (and the bonding system), when the A/C breakers are off, but no voltage between brown and blue.  When the AC breakers are on, I get 240 between brown and blue and the pump works as it should.

     

    I just don't understand electricity well enough to surmise why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

     

    If anyone knows where the relay box is for the AC pump, that seems like a good place to start.

     

    As always, thanks for your input.
    Kent

    SM 243

    Kristy 



    On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:20 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    You should get 110 volts between the red and ground and 110 volts between the black and the ground. The ground and the white neutral should be the same, as the ground is connected to earth somewhere in the marina.

    Fair Winds

    Eric

    Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

     

     

    From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:07 AM
    To: amelyachtowners@...
    Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

     

     

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for your thoughts.

     

    I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal..I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

     

    The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

     

    6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

     

    I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

     

    Kent 

    SM 243

    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

     

    I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 

    and this: 

     

    A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:

    1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
    2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
    3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.

    Bill

    BeBe 387

     

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

     

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

     

    Kent 

     


    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

     

    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

     

    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

     

    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

     

    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.