[Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection


Patrick McAneny
 

Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?
 Pat SM # 123
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: yahoogroups
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   


eric freedman
 

My guess is that salt has penetrated the new insert and you have made another battery.

Did you try removing the new insert and washers and soaking them for 24 hours in something like salt away ?This stuff  dissolves salt crystals and is used to clean out outboard motors. I use it to clean the salt of the rails, deck  and hardware after a long passage. See if that makes a difference,

Or just as a simple experiment , wrap the bolt in a lot of electrical tape without the bushings and see if you get the same voltage- my guess is , you will not.

Obviously the new bushings worked for a while

 

 

Amel intentionally did not connect the rigging to the bonding. They had their own thoughts about this which was never explained to me. I have my own thoughts on the subject which I will not discuss here-That is another can of worms.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?

 Pat SM # 123

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

Hi all,

I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.

For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.

These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.

The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.

I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)

At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.

 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.

 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.

On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.

 

There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

 

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.

A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.

The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

   


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat, No there is no change if the breakers are off. I wouldn't be concerned if it wasn't for the corrosion.
Regards
Danny
 



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2015 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?
 Pat SM # 123
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: yahoogroups
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   



Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Eric,
thanks for the reply. The new inserts are a very dense material and I have only done a couple of gentle day sails with no spray flying since they were put in so I doubt if salt would have penetrated. The bushings are a tight press fit and they are in two pieces meeting in the middle with a collar at each end so removal would not be simple
Regards
Danny
 



From: "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2015 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
My guess is that salt has penetrated the new insert and you have made another battery.
Did you try removing the new insert and washers and soaking them for 24 hours in something like salt away ?This stuff  dissolves salt crystals and is used to clean out outboard motors. I use it to clean the salt of the rails, deck  and hardware after a long passage. See if that makes a difference,
Or just as a simple experiment , wrap the bolt in a lot of electrical tape without the bushings and see if you get the same voltage- my guess is , you will not.
Obviously the new bushings worked for a while
 
 
Amel intentionally did not connect the rigging to the bonding. They had their own thoughts about this which was never explained to me. I have my own thoughts on the subject which I will not discuss here-That is another can of worms.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection
 
 
Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?
 Pat SM # 123
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection
 
Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass..
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 
 
So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom
 
So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution
 
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   



eric freedman
 

Danny,

Then how about coating the bolt with dielectric grease and see if that makes a change.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 1:05 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Hi Eric,

thanks for the reply. The new inserts are a very dense material and I have only done a couple of gentle day sails with no spray flying since they were put in so I doubt if salt would have penetrated. The bushings are a tight press fit and they are in two pieces meeting in the middle with a collar at each end so removal would not be simple

Regards

Danny
 

 


From: "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2015 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

My guess is that salt has penetrated the new insert and you have made another battery.

Did you try removing the new insert and washers and soaking them for 24 hours in something like salt away ?This stuff  dissolves salt crystals and is used to clean out outboard motors. I use it to clean the salt of the rails, deck  and hardware after a long passage. See if that makes a difference,

Or just as a simple experiment , wrap the bolt in a lot of electrical tape without the bushings and see if you get the same voltage- my guess is , you will not.

Obviously the new bushings worked for a while

 

 

Amel intentionally did not connect the rigging to the bonding. They had their own thoughts about this which was never explained to me. I have my own thoughts on the subject which I will not discuss here-That is another can of worms.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?

 Pat SM # 123

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

Hi all,

I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.

For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.

These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.

The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.

I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)

At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass..

 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.

 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.

On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.

 

There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

 

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.

A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.

The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

   

 


Paul Osterberg
 

Danny
Have the same corrosion issue.
After your posting a measured the volt between the vertical bolt and the mast and I have ca 0.4 v, between the horisontal bolt and the boom or mast was below 0.1 v. I assume connecting them al together only make sense if they the are bonded? 
I'm as well are very interested to have forums visdom to solve the problem
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM #259


Paul Osterberg
 

Further either disconnecting the shore power line or the main battery breakers did any effekt on the voltage reading
Paul 
S/Y Kerpa SM #259


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Paul, I'm on a mooring so no shore power but I didn't try turning the main breakers off.
Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
 



From: "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2015 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Further either disconnecting the shore power line or the main battery breakers did any effekt on the voltage reading
Paul 
S/Y Kerpa SM #259




Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Paul,
I don't know whether connecting the elements together is only sensible if they are bonded but it was advice received and I had nothing else. Did you try your voltage reading with the main breakers off?
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
 



From: "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2015 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Danny
Have the same corrosion issue.
After your posting a measured the volt between the vertical bolt and the mast and I have ca 0.4 v, between the horisontal bolt and the boom or mast was below 0.1 v. I assume connecting them al together only make sense if they the are bonded? 
I'm as well are very interested to have forums visdom to solve the problem
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM #259



Paul Osterberg
 

Yes!
No major difference
with the main breakers on or off
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Wolfgang Weber <webercardio@...>
 

Do you know this :http://www.tikal-online.de/products/tef-gel-anti-corrosion/
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 # 162

Von meinem iPad gesendet


Paul Osterberg
 

Yes I v heard about it and will try, will also try to put a ground wire to the bolt
Paul SY KERPA SM 259


eric freedman
 

I have used a grease like substance that hardens with age called Duralac. It is available on ebay.

It is amazing stuff. I have been using it on boats since 1995.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:08 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Yes I v heard about it and will try, will also try to put a ground wire to the bolt
Paul SY KERPA SM 259