[Amel Yacht Owners] genoa furler holding plate


Olivier Beaute
 

Hello Donato,

there is only one reason for bending this stainless steel plate: not enough tension on the genoa halyard. The genoa furling system (motor, tube and sail) is then acting like a sledge hammer at every wave moving the bow up and down.
The stainless steel plate is not structural. It does not hold the forestay but only the genoa system. Take it down and have it straighten. And the next time you expect strong winds, make sure the halyard is tightened to the maximum before you start furling the genoa in.

If this is not clear enough, feel free to ask.

Olivier


On Saturday, December 26, 2015 7:46 PM, "ing.d.valente@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hi,
will appreciate receiving your opinions about a serious problem to our SM 2000 presently at Fort Lauderdale,
Will try posting a picture that will explain the problem better than my words.
The steel plate holding and fixing the genoa furling motor to the deck has been found aft bent.
I don't have sufficient information on how and when it happened. My co-owner is on the boat and trying to understand the problem and talking to the skipper who transferred the boat from Cayman to Fort Lauderdale.
The only information I have is that the professional skipper said that he found rough sea, and, by the way, he said that at arrival he found that two anchors were missing !
But that is another topic.
My first assumption was that the genoa  furler has been accidentally used with the jib sheet still on the winch; but apparently no visible damage was found on the sheet ring on the genoa.
I can't think to another reason.
I think also that the plate must be replaced, since have no confidence in straightening the old one.
Hope the problem is clear.
Thanks for your opinions.
Will try to post a photo, under album name Ocean Bird (I've never done before)

All the best 
Donato

SM 2000 - Ocean Bird n. 468
in Fort Lauderdale

 



Alan Leslie
 

I would add that the gap in the fitting is quite a bit larger than the thickness of the SS plate.
This also contributes to the bending.
On the advice of my friend Danny (Ocean Pearl) we straightened the plate on the dockside with a hammer and a piece of wood...and then inserted SS washers to take up the gap....never had the problem again.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse
SM437


Mike Ondra
 


Are the original genoa furler tangs from Amel straight or bent?


After a passage from the Chesapeake to Antigua in November, Aletes showed a 90 degree bend in the genoa hold down tang. This clearly looked wrong. After taking up the tension on the halyard and removing the tang, it sprang back to about a 45 degree bend.  We presumed based upon this topic thread that insufficient tension on the passage and pounding seas caused the permanent bend.


We straightened it and reinstalled. The reinstall did not fit well, so we turned the unit around so that the bolt L faced aft rather than forward as original. This configuration put a slight forward bend to the tang, putting it rather close to the forestay turnbuckle and not parallel to the forestay. This still didn't look quite correct.


Looking at the tang on a 3 year younger SM the tang was bent at approx. 45 degree as was ours and as pictured by Ocean Bird on Dec 26, 2015 and in the same place. The owner of the younger SM, who owned from new, said the bend was always there.


My question is this. Is the 45 degree bend in the tang by design? Is the clevis connection to the base plate designed to allow rotation as the tang flexes. There is some potential rationale. With the bend, the tang is parallel to the forestay and acts as a spring shock absorber for the vertical loads of the furling system in a pounding sea. It seems not a coincidence that on the 3 SMs that I have looked at for this, the bends are at about the same place and amount.


Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240



Olivier Beaute
 

Hello Mike,

the stainless steel part that you call tang is originally not bent and must not remain bent.
Once straightened, don't mount it reverse (as you did).
This part is not designed to absorb vertical downwards pressure but to prevent the furling system (motor, gear-box and foil) from going up.
The bend happens because of not enough tension on the genoa halyard, or if the original VECTRAN core halyard has been replaced with a regular polyester halyard.
Before you start furling your genoa (because of too much wind) you should tension this halyard to the maximum you can. Some people never touch the genoa or mainsail halyard. This is a mistake that creates problems like the tang bending, or the sail going out of shape.

Olivier


On Monday, January 18, 2016 11:55 AM, "mdondra@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 

Are the original genoa furler tangs from Amel straight or bent?

After a passage from the Chesapeake to Antigua in November, Aletes showed a 90 degree bend in the genoa hold down tang. This clearly looked wrong. After taking up the tension on the halyard and removing the tang, it sprang back to about a 45 degree bend.  We presumed based upon this topic thread that insufficient tension on the passage and pounding seas caused the permanent bend.

We straightened it and reinstalled. The reinstall did not fit well, so we turned the unit around so that the bolt L faced aft rather than forward as original. This configuration put a slight forward bend to the tang, putting it rather close to the forestay turnbuckle and not parallel to the forestay. This still didn't look quite correct.

Looking at the tang on a 3 year younger SM the tang was bent at approx. 45 degree as was ours and as pictured by Ocean Bird on Dec 26, 2015 and in the same place. The owner of the younger SM, who owned from new, said the bend was always there.

My question is this. Is the 45 degree bend in the tang by design? Is the clevis connection to the base plate designed to allow rotation as the tang flexes. There is some potential rationale. With the bend, the tang is parallel to the forestay and acts as a spring shock absorber for the vertical loads of the furling system in a pounding sea. It seems not a coincidence that on the 3 SMs that I have looked at for this, the bends are at about the same place and amount.

Mike Ondra
Aletes SM#240




Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

What a wealth of information Olivier,
Are you ever in the Caribbean?
I would love to hire you to go over my vessel one day!
I am learning so much every time you reply a question on the forum.
Thanks again for your priceless knowledge and devotion!
Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Blue Haven Marina, Turks & Caicos Islands



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 1/18/16, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] genoa furler holding plate
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Monday, January 18, 2016, 7:55 AM


 









Hello
Mike,
the
stainless steel part that you call tang is originally not
bent and must not remain bent.Once
straightened, don't mount it reverse (as you
did).This part
is not designed to absorb vertical downwards pressure but to
prevent the furling system (motor, gear-box and foil) from
going up.The bend
happens because of not enough tension on the genoa halyard,
or if the original VECTRAN core halyard has been replaced
with a regular polyester halyard.Before you
start furling your genoa (because of too much wind) you
should tension this halyard to the maximum you can. Some
people never touch the genoa or mainsail halyard. This is a
mistake that creates problems like the tang bending, or the
sail going out of shape.
Olivier


On Monday, January
18, 2016 11:55 AM, "mdondra@...
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:



 










Are the
original genoa furler tangs from Amel straight or
bent?
After a passage
from the Chesapeake to Antigua in November, Aletes showed a
90 degree bend in the genoa hold down tang. This clearly
looked wrong. After taking up the tension on the halyard
and removing the tang, it sprang back to about a 45 degree
bend.  We presumed based upon this topic thread that
insufficient tension on the passage and pounding seas
caused the permanent bend.
We straightened it and reinstalled.
The reinstall did not fit well, so we turned the unit around
so that the bolt L faced aft rather than forward as
original. This configuration put a slight forward bend to
the tang, putting it rather close to the forestay turnbuckle
and not parallel to the forestay. This still didn't look
quite correct.
Looking at the tang on a 3 year
younger SM the tang was bent at approx. 45 degree as was
ours and as pictured by Ocean Bird on Dec 26, 2015 and in
the same place. The owner of the younger SM, who owned from
new, said the bend was always there.
My question is this. Is the 45
degree bend in the tang by design? Is the clevis connection
to the base plate designed to allow rotation as the tang
flexes. There is some potential rationale. With the bend,
the tang is parallel to the forestay and acts as a spring
shock absorber for the vertical loads of the furling system
in a pounding sea. It seems not a coincidence that on the 3
SMs that I have looked at for this, the bends are at about
the same place and amount.
Mike OndraAletes
SM#240






















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danielmfrey63@...
 

Hello Olivier

May I ask how it is with the halyards of the main mast and the mizzen: how much tension is best there? As much as possible just like the jib halyard? Or are the masts bending at some point, what probably is not very good?

In an old Maramu manual AMEL recommends to release the halyards of the jib and the main, if the boat is not used for a certain time. Is this recommendation still good, or not necessary any more with new materials?

Thank you for your answer in advance.

Daniel

Heureka
AMEL Santorin No. 64 (1992)
Kuşadası (Setur Marina), Turkey


Olivier Beaute
 

Hello Daniel,

in fact, you should adjust the tension on all halyards according to the wind conditions. The best way is to have a look at the luff (of each sail) when it is fully out and under load. If you see horizontal wrinkles, this means the tension is too low. Ease the sheet, tension the halyard a bit and see if your wrinkles are still there.
The goal is to have a sail with no wrinkles at the luff.
Of course, if your last setting was done with 15 knots of wind, and the wind comes up to twenty, then you have to tension the halyard again. If the wind slows down, you should ease the halyards, otherwise, you will see a big vertical wrinkle that will prevent the sail from getting a good shape and a good and easy air flow.
You can put a lot of tension on the halyards, this will never bend the mast.
Back in the harbor or at anchorage, you MUST release the tensions on all halyards (whatever the sails and halyards material). Otherwise your sails will get out of shape too early.
The sails made of Dyneema fibers (like HYDRANET cloth) require Dyneema or Vectran core halyards. This combination requires more attention to halyard setting than Dacron sails with polyester halyards.

Have good sailings!

Olivier


On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 5:00 PM, "danielmfrey63@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello Olivier

May I ask how it is with the halyards of the main mast and the mizzen: how much tension is best there? As much as possible just like the jib halyard? Or are the masts bending at some point, what probably is not very good?

In an old Maramu manual AMEL recommends to release the halyards of the jib and the main, if the boat is not used for a certain time. Is this recommendation still good, or not necessary any more with new materials?

Thank you for your answer in advance.

Daniel

Heureka
AMEL Santorin No. 64 (1992)
Kuşadası (Setur Marina), Turkey



danielmfrey63@...
 

Dear Olivier

Thank you very much for your explications. They are very helpful to me. I just got new sails from Qsails in Izmir, and of course I want to treat them right from the beginning.

Maybe one last question. I am a bit confused about AMELs original idea of the possible use of the Santorin as little sister or little brother of the Super Maramu. A Santorin owner told me recently that during the take over instruction week in Hyères back in 1996 he was told by the AMEL people that the Santorin has to go back to shore power each evening - with the standard installation of 3 batteries. An other friend of mine is right now crossing the Atlantic with his Santorin - making full use of the standard wave generator and two solar panels he
has added.

Thank you very much and Kind regards.

Daniel

Heureka
AMEL Santorin No. 64 (1992)
Kuşadası (Setur Marina), Turkey