[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?


eric freedman
 

Did you look at 12 volt group 32 EV batteries (electric vehicle) They are deep cycle unlike the original batteries that were furnished with my boat. They are exactly the same size as the original batteries. The only difference is that they have dual terminals on the top.

 

I replaced all the bulbs on board Kimberlite except the bow and stern navigation lights.

I purchased mine from Atlantic Marine in Huntington NY USA, for about $20- a fixture.

They are also available from Defender Marine in Connecticut USA, and West marine all over the USA.

Did you try eBay?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Thank you to all again for such good advice so quickly. We will get all the measurements, prices and stock availability over the next couple days. One other factor is that we had the 12v lead acid setup before so all the connector are already there in place to re-use (and copy for non-experts like ourselves), however we are now leaning towards the 6v option based on this discussion, and Bill's last comment, but will look at the total price, quality & availability of all options before a final decision.

 

Next question (in a separate topic) will be on finding a good source for LED lights to fit into out SM2000 (2001) existing fittings? We just have not been able to get suitable ones in Australia so looking for an internet purchase source and stock number. Our internal lights are our most major power draw each evening and we are now finding these not bright enough to read easily at night. Changing that will truly transform our consumption and hopefully give us a 100% non-plug in boat most of the time with only occasional generator use.

 

Colin & Lauren Streeter

Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332

Brisbane


eric freedman
 

I forgot to mention that these batteries are wet cell batteries.

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Did you look at 12 volt group 32 EV batteries (electric vehicle) They are deep cycle unlike the original batteries that were furnished with my boat. They are exactly the same size as the original batteries. The only difference is that they have dual terminals on the top.

 

I replaced all the bulbs on board Kimberlite except the bow and stern navigation lights.

I purchased mine from Atlantic Marine in Huntington NY USA, for about $20- a fixture.

They are also available from Defender Marine in Connecticut USA, and West marine all over the USA.

Did you try eBay?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Thank you to all again for such good advice so quickly. We will get all the measurements, prices and stock availability over the next couple days. One other factor is that we had the 12v lead acid setup before so all the connector are already there in place to re-use (and copy for non-experts like ourselves), however we are now leaning towards the 6v option based on this discussion, and Bill's last comment, but will look at the total price, quality & availability of all options before a final decision.

 

Next question (in a separate topic) will be on finding a good source for LED lights to fit into out SM2000 (2001) existing fittings? We just have not been able to get suitable ones in Australia so looking for an internet purchase source and stock number. Our internal lights are our most major power draw each evening and we are now finding these not bright enough to read easily at night. Changing that will truly transform our consumption and hopefully give us a 100% non-plug in boat most of the time with only occasional generator use.

 

Colin & Lauren Streeter

Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332

Brisbane


karkauai
 

Hi Eric,
I can't find "Group 32 EV" batteries on a Google search.  Can you give me something more to go on?
Thanks
Kent


On Feb 25, 2016, at 11:45 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I forgot to mention that these batteries are wet cell batteries.

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Did you look at 12 volt group 32 EV batteries (electric vehicle) They are deep cycle unlike the original batteries that were furnished with my boat. They are exactly the same size as the original batteries. The only difference is that they have dual terminals on the top.

 

I replaced all the bulbs on board Kimberlite except the bow and stern navigation lights.

I purchased mine from Atlantic Marine in Huntington NY USA, for about $20- a fixture.

They are also available from Defender Marine in Connecticut USA, and West marine all over the USA.

Did you try eBay?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Thank you to all again for such good advice so quickly. We will get all the measurements, prices and stock availability over the next couple days. One other factor is that we had the 12v lead acid setup before so all the connector are already there in place to re-use (and copy for non-experts like ourselves), however we are now leaning towards the 6v option based on this discussion, and Bill's last comment, but will look at the total price, quality & availability of all options before a final decision.

 

Next question (in a separate topic) will be on finding a good source for LED lights to fit into out SM2000 (2001) existing fittings? We just have not been able to get suitable ones in Australia so looking for an internet purchase source and stock number. Our internal lights are our most major power draw each evening and we are now finding these not bright enough to read easily at night. Changing that will truly transform our consumption and hopefully give us a 100% non-plug in boat most of the time with only occasional generator use.

 

Colin & Lauren Streeter

Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332

Brisbane


eric freedman
 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 03:18 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the aft end to 300mm at the engine battery end. The height of the Trojan T-105's to terminal tops is 283mm meaning that they fit fine in the deep end where the engine battery is, but not at the shallow end.There appears to be an option to switch the terminals to a shorter length (type - 3 -EAPT -= 24mm high) which would reduce the overall T-105 height to 270mm which is what I assume others on this forum have done unless the battery compartments were made shallower on the SM2000's?.

This leaves very little head room above the batteries for breathing, however the footprint size becomes significantly smaller than with the current 12v option allowing enough space for an additional (spare) 12v starter battery of the same size as the original.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:10 PM, jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Eric,

 

That's Australian dollars. And it's an expensive place.

 

John, Maramu #91 Popeye




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> </div><div>Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00) </div><div>To: amelyachtowners@... </div><div>Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind? </div><div>
</div>Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af


Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?


Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af


karkauai
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00) To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

</div>Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af


jjjk12s@...
 

 

Kent

 

What about pivotting solar panels on the guard rails outside the aft cabin top rather than need an arch. Say with two decent sized solar panels when using the autopilot a lot under sail it still wouldn't likely be enough but at anchor and with LED lights or using the engine a bit each day the gen set should not get much use.

 

I've just removed my wind generator rather than replace it.. With solar, a smart regulator on the engine and a battery monitor you should find much much less gen set use but still need occasional boost. The solar panels are good to maintain a charge when the boat is unattended as well as that's often a killer for wet cell batteries, and obviously the reduced cycling will help.

 

I think two solar panels on the rails are definately worthwhile..

 

John Maramu #91 Popeye


Ian Park
 

Kent

I would second John's advice. We fitted one either side on the rails. They pivot out of the way easily to walk by, and they also pivot easily to direct at right angles to the sun. I only fitted 75 watt panels when 100 watt ones would have been about perfect. But we have no freezer.

Still, at anchor it takes two days for the batteries to drop to 82%. Then I just boost them up with the generator.

On the rail you can also wash the salt off them and keep the glass clean easily.

Ian

Ocean Hobo. SN96

Sent from my iPod


Barry Connor
 

Hi Ian,
We am thinking of solar panels for our 54. Had not thought of pivoting them on the back rails.
Could you send a photo of yours on the back rail.
Thank's and Best

Barry & Penelope
'Lady Penelope II'
AMEL 54 
Marseille


On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:14 PM, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent

I would second John's advice. We fitted one either side on the rails. They pivot out of the way easily to walk by, and they also pivot easily to direct at right angles to the sun. I only fitted 75 watt panels when 100 watt ones would have been about perfect. But we have no freezer.

Still, at anchor it takes two days for the batteries to drop to 82%. Then I just boost them up with the generator.

On the rail you can also wash the salt off them and keep the glass clean easily.

Ian

Ocean Hobo. SN96

Sent from my iPod


Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Hi Collin,
When we changed batteries the first time on Lady Annila, we hade to raise the lid with a few cm. It was not to difficult, we made a wooden frame that we mounted on top of the battery box and then re-mounted the "lid" on that frame. 

Today we have 450 Ah Trojan 105 batteries, 8+1 in the ordinary battery compartment. We have had some thought on rebuilding the box to be able to fit an other 4 Trojan105, but after this first year with the batteries, we have decided that it isn't necessary toghether with our solarpanels and the windgenerator.

Regards
Annsofie
s/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998.

Skickat från min iPad

29 feb. 2016 kl. 13:36 skrev Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> </div><div>Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00) </div><div>To: amelyachtowners@... </div><div>Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind? </div><div>
</div>Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


karkauai
 

Thanks Colin, and everyone who has contributed.  The options are pretty clear to me now, I think.
I think I'll stick with the original setup for now.  I'll be in the Western Caribbean for a year or two.  If/when I head for the S Pacific, I'll add the arch and solar.  The next time I need to buy batteries I'll increase my AHrs to either 450 or 675.

Great discussion, thanks again.
Kent


On Feb 29, 2016, at 7:36 AM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


hanspeter baettig
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Hanspeter,

The guy that does the stainless for Riza is a long-time employee of Emek. I know him and the very first SM Arch he did was for BeBe #387. I was with him as he measured, designed, and installed the arch. He was originally hired by Riza's father. He is definitely not a subcontractor. Maybe it is possible that while you were in Turkey that Riza also had a subcontractor to handle the excess work, but I do not think so. I will ask him.

And, the electrician is a subcontractor.

Bill
BeBe 387
Martinique

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:33 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@... </div>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



hanspeter baettig
 

Bill i do not not agree with you since you are long time away. Tamar the electrician, and as I said , is a very professional worker and a very gentil person. He works for Emek.
And Bill, in Turkey, things changed a lot! 
Greetings to sunny Martinique , here in Zurich is snowing and cold, enjoy!
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamnago 2


Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 21:39 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hanspeter,

The guy that does the stainless for Riza is a long-time employee of Emek. I know him and the very first SM Arch he did was for BeBe #387. I was with him as he measured, designed, and installed the arch. He was originally hired by Riza's father. He is definitely not a subcontractor. Maybe it is possible that while you were in Turkey that Riza also had a subcontractor to handle the excess work, but I do not think so. I will ask him.

And, the electrician is a subcontractor.

Bill
BeBe 387
Martinique

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:33 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Hanspeter

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately you miss-read what I wrote there, and on reading it again now I can see why, and that it is my fault and I should write things more clearly on this forum.

Anyhow, what I said (or meant to say) was that the davits cost us approximately 25% less than if I had ordered similar davits to be welded up and made for our boat by an Australian davit maker. Twice before I have had davits made here in Australia (once for an Island Packet 40, and the other for a South Coast 36 design) and each time we spent approximately $15,000 AUD on these. However neither were as well made and as large as the ones from Turkey so I assume such a set would be a fair bit more for an Amel 53, possibly around $20,000 AUD. Therefore Emerek's price was 25% cheaper even after all the duty etc.

Although Australia is a beautiful country to cruise in and visit, unfortunately it is a very expensive place for boating works and equipment and this is why we took the opportunity to add many many things onto our Amel such as a new 100 l/hr 240v/24v duo watermaker, a second full auto-pilot with quick change over switch, new radios, GPS, AIS, Sails,.......etc etc when we had our boat in the Canary Islands in 2011 as it was so very cheap there compared to doing all this work back here in Australia.

Also the solar panels and controllers were very reasonably priced - we got two 260w panels (total 540w) plus a Tracer MPPT controller with MT50 display all of which did not cost much at all (purchased new on E-Bay) and which we installed ourselves. So I would think that Kent's proposed budget of US$18,000 is actually a very realistic figure to have all this equipment added. I would be surprised if it cost him more that that.

Please don't think that you disturb me with your questions at all. Quite to the contrary questions from very experienced members such you on this site is of great benefit to us all especially since you have now more that 20 years experience sailing an Amel. This is what actually makes this site so valuable in my view.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


hanspeter baettig
 

Thank you Colin.
Btw I installed also last year the Duo watermaker 100 l. Very good watermaker!
I spoke recently at the Paris boat show with Mr. Wagner jun., the owner of Dessalator. He showd me his new hibernation system for the watermakers, a semi automatic system. Its a tube where you put in the prefilter, put in the chemicals and then you switch on without pressure the system, that means you do not have to disconnect any houses. It was new for me, maybe other members know it already. Everything on spare parts are of curse on the dessalators website (also in eng.)
I heard from very good friends that Brisbane is a lovely sailing area and an interessting city.
Kind regards
Hanspeter
Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 01.03.2016 um 09:43 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately you miss-read what I wrote there, and on reading it again now I can see why, and that it is my fault and I should write things more clearly on this forum.

Anyhow, what I said (or meant to say) was that the davits cost us approximately 25% less than if I had ordered similar davits to be welded up and made for our boat by an Australian davit maker. Twice before I have had davits made here in Australia (once for an Island Packet 40, and the other for a South Coast 36 design) and each time we spent approximately $15,000 AUD on these. However neither were as well made and as large as the ones from Turkey so I assume such a set would be a fair bit more for an Amel 53, possibly around $20,000 AUD. Therefore Emerek's price was 25% cheaper even after all the duty etc.

Although Australia is a beautiful country to cruise in and visit, unfortunately it is a very expensive place for boating works and equipment and this is why we took the opportunity to add many many things onto our Amel such as a new 100 l/hr 240v/24v duo watermaker, a second full auto-pilot with quick change over switch, new radios, GPS, AIS, Sails,.......etc etc when we had our boat in the Canary Islands in 2011 as it was so very cheap there compared to doing all this work back here in Australia.

Also the solar panels and controllers were very reasonably priced - we got two 260w panels (total 540w) plus a Tracer MPPT controller with MT50 display all of which did not cost much at all (purchased new on E-Bay) and which we installed ourselves. So I would think that Kent's proposed budget of US$18,000 is actually a very realistic figure to have all this equipment added. I would be surprised if it cost him more that that.

Please don't think that you disturb me with your questions at all. Quite to the contrary questions from very experienced members such you on this site is of great benefit to us all especially since you have now more that 20 years experience sailing an Amel. This is what actually makes this site so valuable in my view.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I think that you may be describing what Dessalator calls the "sterilizing cartridge." It does work well using the "flush" procedure. I have the sterilizing cartridge, but no longer use it.

I did something different for when our boat may be unattended. I make sure the fresh water tank is full. I have a programmable 24VDC timer and a 24VDC valve that is set to flush the membranes 2 times a week for 5 minutes. This uses about 30 liters of fresh water a week. If the tank is full I can easily leave the boat for 30 weeks. I leave it ON all the time, even when I am on the boat because previous to this addition, I would forget to flush twice a week. In my opinion, keeping the membranes wet with fresh water is a much better solution than using caustic chemicals.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:29 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Colin.
Btw I installed also last year the Duo watermaker 100 l. Very good watermaker!
I spoke recently at the Paris boat show with Mr. Wagner jun., the owner of Dessalator. He showd me his new hibernation system for the watermakers, a semi automatic system. Its a tube where you put in the prefilter, put in the chemicals and then you switch on without pressure the system, that means you do not have to disconnect any houses. It was new for me, maybe other members know it already. Everything on spare parts are of curse on the dessalators website (also in eng.)
I heard from very good friends that Brisbane is a lovely sailing area and an interessting city.
Kind regards
Hanspeter
Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 01.03.2016 um 09:43 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately you miss-read what I wrote there, and on reading it again now I can see why, and that it is my fault and I should write things more clearly on this forum.

Anyhow, what I said (or meant to say) was that the davits cost us approximately 25% less than if I had ordered similar davits to be welded up and made for our boat by an Australian davit maker. Twice before I have had davits made here in Australia (once for an Island Packet 40, and the other for a South Coast 36 design) and each time we spent approximately $15,000 AUD on these. However neither were as well made and as large as the ones from Turkey so I assume such a set would be a fair bit more for an Amel 53, possibly around $20,000 AUD. Therefore Emerek's price was 25% cheaper even after all the duty etc.

Although Australia is a beautiful country to cruise in and visit, unfortunately it is a very expensive place for boating works and equipment and this is why we took the opportunity to add many many things onto our Amel such as a new 100 l/hr 240v/24v duo watermaker, a second full auto-pilot with quick change over switch, new radios, GPS, AIS, Sails,.......etc etc when we had our boat in the Canary Islands in 2011 as it was so very cheap there compared to doing all this work back here in Australia.

Also the solar panels and controllers were very reasonably priced - we got two 260w panels (total 540w) plus a Tracer MPPT controller with MT50 display all of which did not cost much at all (purchased new on E-Bay) and which we installed ourselves. So I would think that Kent's proposed budget of US$18,000 is actually a very realistic figure to have all this equipment added. I would be surprised if it cost him more that that.

Please don't think that you disturb me with your questions at all. Quite to the contrary questions from very experienced members such you on this site is of great benefit to us all especially since you have now more that 20 years experience sailing an Amel. This is what actually makes this site so valuable in my view.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?
Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445