[Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding


Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Paul,

3. This is the ground for the BLU… HF in English.  It is connected to its own grounding plate on the starboard side of the skeg.

4.  BLU???  See above.  Gounding cable is Yellow/green .. by convention.  The HF has its own grounding plate; it is not connected to the anodes.

6. I would not do that but instead use the provided grounding plate.  Even if you have to rewire the ground.  HF installations are very susceptible to faults due to poor grounding.

Good luck.

Jean-Pierre
Eleuthera, SM 007.


On 1 Mar 2016, at 09:56, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have problem to understand how the 24 v grounding system is arranged. (I’m not very experienced with advanced boat electrics as my previous boats has been much smaller and less complex)


1.     1. I have the ground strap that goes to one of the keel bolts in the grey water sump, where numerous of ground cables are connected.


2.      2. I have two sintered plates on the skeg, I do not know if they are both connected to each other but assume so as they are very close and almost in contact.

3. 

3.     3. There is a copper strip on the starboard side of after lazaret, which I assume is connected to the sintered plates on the skeg, Should it be a similar copper strip on the port side? Can’t find any but could be behind the gas locker.


4.     4. Behind the chart table I have a large yellow and green cable that is connected to the “BLU” terminal, together with a few other smaller yellow and green cables.  When disconnecting the ground cable from the “BLU” terminal, I can measure that it is connected to the copper strap in the lazaret. But it has even when disconnected with the “BLU” terminal contact with the ground strap in the grey water sump??? Should it be like that? 


         5. If I Permanently disconnect the Large cable from the copper strip on the “BLU” terminal do I need to put a ground cable from the engine room to the “BLU” terminal for the other ground cables that are attached to the “BLU” terminal


5.      6. I have in the engine room 4 yellow and green more heavy duty cables such as the one the “BLU” terminal behind the chart table, one of them goes after on Port side, but I have not yet been able to trace where, could that go to the after lazaret and be connected with the sintered plates?


6.      I need to separate the sintered plates on the skeg from the rest of the grounding system to have them as grounding for my SSB that I trying to install. But I can’t find out how.

All help is very appreciated

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


 



Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (6)


Paul Osterberg
 

Hello!
Jean-Pierre
The intention is to connect the SSB to the provided ground the sintered plates on the skeg.
I have now identified that one of the YG cables attached to the bilge ground strap also was connected with the copper strip in the after lazaret. That's good, but it looks as the sintered plates have been neglected for a long time i.e a lot of deposit in the pors, when testing with my multimeter by putting the probes to the sintered plates it gives no indication of conductivity, Which I guess they should have given. further they seam to be stuck I can't loosen the screw else I would put them in White vinegar.
PAUL on S/Y Kerpa SM#259 


Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Thank you for the info.

GL.

JPG



On 1 Mar 2016, at 12:34, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello!

Jean-Pierre
The intention is to connect the SSB to the provided ground the sintered plates on the skeg.
I have now identified that one of the YG cables attached to the bilge ground strap also was connected with the copper strip in the after lazaret. That's good, but it looks as the sintered plates have been neglected for a long time i.e a lot of deposit in the pors, when testing with my multimeter by putting the probes to the sintered plates it gives no indication of conductivity, Which I guess they should have given. further they seam to be stuck I can't loosen the screw else I would put them in White vinegar.
PAUL on S/Y Kerpa SM#259 

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (8)


VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Hi Paul,
You don't have to remove ground sintered plate for cleaning.
I just brushed on vinegar on the plate and brush it again with brass brush. It worked well. You can use some other well deluded acids.
Check all ground connects to the rudder.
Good luck to you.

On Mar 1, 2016 6:41 AM, "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
>
>  
>
> Hello!
> Jean-Pierre
> The intention is to connect the SSB to the provided ground the sintered plates on the skeg.
> I have now identified that one of the YG cables attached to the bilge ground strap also was connected with the copper strip in the after lazaret. That's good, but it looks as the sintered plates have been neglected for a long time i.e a lot of deposit in the pors, when testing with my multimeter by putting the probes to the sintered plates it gives no indication of conductivity, Which I guess they should have given. further they seam to be stuck I can't loosen the screw else I would put them in White vinegar.
> PAUL on S/Y Kerpa SM#259 
>
>


Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you Vladimir
I have tried your concept with  cleaning and now they conduct and have electric contact with the copper strip in the lazaret. Don't understand what you mean by all grounds connect to the rudder. I have checked and there are no connection with the zink on the rudder I believe, and do not understand how it could be. The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Paul,

You said, "The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other."

The bolts on the rudder holding the zincs SHOULD be connected electrically with each other and to the bonding system. You should be able to check continuity between the propeller shaft and the zincs on the rudder. If there is not continuity (electrical connection) between the propeller shaft and the zincs, you probably have a problem with the bonding system not being connected to the motor and C Drive.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:54 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Vladimir

I have tried your concept with  cleaning and now they conduct and have electric contact with the copper strip in the lazaret. Don't understand what you mean by all grounds connect to the rudder. I have checked and there are no connection with the zink on the rudder I believe, and do not understand how it could be. The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259



Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you for that Bill
After cleaning the threads on the bolt I  measure good contact between the two bolts holding the two zinks on the rudder. However when measuring between he bolts and the shaft I measure ca 1 k ohm resistance between the zink bolts and the shaft. I hd hoped for better connection
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


karkauai
 

Hi Paul.  It's very important that you understand the bonding system.  If not correct, your underwater metals are at risk of galvanic and possibly electrolytic corrosion.

There are five "grounding" systems on your boat.  They are mostly separate from each other.  Three of them use yellow/green wires...very confusing.

1.  The bonding system connects all metals exposed to sea water.  It is ultimately connected to the zincs on the rudder via a large y/g wire from the engine or aft end of the angle iron engine supports.  It runs aft along the port side and ends at the rudder post under the starboard seat in the aft cabin.  It connects to the stainless skeleton of the rudder, and the zincs bolt into that skeleton.  It also connects to the discharge valve and intake through-hull for the aft head, and forward metals exposed to sea water at the A/C pump discharge and (I think) the bow thruster. All metals exposed to sea water should show a solid connection to this system and therefore to the zincs.  Most of the bonding wires from forward of the engine room connect to the copper strap that bolts to the keel in the bilge sump, and a large wire also goes from that strap to the engine or its angle iron bed.
Get a long enough wire to get to all parts of the boat and check the resistance between the rudder post and the zincs.  There should be NO resistance (i.e. a solid connection). Then check for resistance between rudder post and all metals exposed to sea water. Anywhere you find more than minimal resistance, check the connections and repair.  A fault in any raw water pump may make a connection between the DC system and bonding.  This most commonly occurs at the macerator pumps for the heads.

2.& 3.  DC ground, both 24v and 12v systems.  Wires are usually blue, but if work has been done in the US they are probably black.  All negative wires should run from the motor or other appliance directly to the 12 or 24v battery negative...NOT through the engine block as is typical on US manufactured boats.  (The only exception is the start, stop, and glow plug wires from engine and generator.  These are grounded to the engine, but the large wire that connects the engine block to the battery negative (12v system) goes through a solenoid that makes negative connection only when glow, start, or stop is activated.  This is an "isolated ground" system.  It does NOT connect to the bonding system except for the brief time that the engine or generator are being started or stopped.)  If you find a connection between battery negative and the bonding system, something is connected wrong and should be corrected.

4.  220AC ground.  These are y/g wires just like the bonding system.  They should lead from 220 appliances back to the boat's 220 ground, not through the bonding system.  There are a few places where a connection to the bonding system may occur, such as the AC Watermaker pump or Air Conditioner raw water pump, and at the generator (see earlier posts).

5.  Single Sideband Antenna ground.  This is also a g/y wire like the bonding system, marked BLU where it comes into the navigation station.  It should connect the SSB radio to the antenna (and the copper strap in the aft lazarette, and the SSB plates on the rudder), NOT to the bonding system.  In boats that did NOT come from Amel with a SSB radio, this g/y wire marked BLU is connected to the bonding system at a post behind the Nav station.  If your SSB was added later, it may still be connected to the bonding system, and should be disconnected.

I'm pretty sure this is all said correctly, anyone who sees something that's not right, please correct me.  After any corrections are made, I'll post it to the Files section.

Hope this is clear, Paul.  If not I'll try again..

Kent
SM 243
Kristy




On Mar 1, 2016, at 10:31 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Paul,

You said, "The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other."

The bolts on the rudder holding the zincs SHOULD be connected electrically with each other and to the bonding system. You should be able to check continuity between the propeller shaft and the zincs on the rudder. If there is not continuity (electrical connection) between the propeller shaft and the zincs, you probably have a problem with the bonding system not being connected to the motor and C Drive.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:54 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Vladimir

I have tried your concept with  cleaning and now they conduct and have electric contact with the copper strip in the lazaret. Don't understand what you mean by all grounds connect to the rudder. I have checked and there are no connection with the zink on the rudder I believe, and do not understand how it could be. The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259



Paul Osterberg
 

Kent!
Thank you very much this will help a lot
Unfortunately I'm leaving the boat for a 14 night and have to clear out all the wires then.
But I'm sure it will be much easier with this input
Thank again.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Paul Osterberg
 

Hello again Kent!
Did some late night work and tanks to your input I found the wire from the zink and connected that to the bilge ground strap, so now there is no resistance between the Zink and the rudder post or the zink and the prop shaft everything seams to be alright, but still with the BLU disconnected at the chart table it is still full contact between the cooper strap in the aft lazaret and the ground strap and bye that also the zink. So still not solved my original problem! to get the sintered plates disconnected from the zink. But know much more about the ground system and can now label a few wires, which i did not know where they went

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Ian Park
 

I guess this means that the Santorin does not have a dedicated SSB ground. Mine therefore must be connected to the zincs, which is why they are wearing more quickly.
How have other Santorins grounded SSBs?

Ian. 'OceN Hobo' SN96

Sent from my iPod


karkauai
 

Glad you're making progress, Paul.  I haven't looked into the connection from the SSB plates yet.  Does anyone else know how the antenna system is connected to the ground plates?
Paul, have you found the stud behind the nav station where other bonding wires are attached?  Make sure that your BLU wire to the ground plate doesn't go through that.
Kent



From: "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

 
Hello again Kent!
Did some late night work and tanks to your input I found the wire from the zink and connected that to the bilge ground strap, so now there is no resistance between the Zink and the rudder post or the zink and the prop shaft everything seams to be alright, but still with the BLU disconnected at the chart table it is still full contact between the cooper strap in the aft lazaret and the ground strap and bye that also the zink. So still not solved my original problem! to get the sintered plates disconnected from the zink. But know much more about the ground system and can now label a few wires, which i did not know where they went

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259



Alan Leslie
 

The BLU wire is only connected to the sintered SSB ground plate. Once you disconnect it from the connector block at the cart tabke it is not connected to anything else.
Are you sitting in salt water when you make the measurement between the bonding wire and the BLU ground ?
If so there will be a circuit through the salt water from the SSB ground plate to the zincs.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse
SM437.


Paul Osterberg
 

Kent
I guess so. there are one stud with YG cables and I assume it,s the thick YG cable to disconnect none of the YG are labeled only the +/- are labeled BLU
Paul


danielmfrey63@...
 

Hi Ian
My Santorin Nr. 64 has the SSB ground plates in the skeg.
Best - Daniel


SY Heureka
Kuşadası, Turkey


karkauai
 

Sounds like it's been disconnected from bonding and goes right to your SSB.  I'll be going to my boat this week end and will look at how my SSB plates are connected to the radio and let you know what I find.
Kent


On Mar 2, 2016, at 2:27 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent
I guess so. there are one stud with YG cables and I assume it,s the thick YG cable to disconnect none of the YG are labeled only the +/- are labeled BLU
Paul


Alan Leslie
 

The SSB ground plate is connected from inside the rudder skeg by a copper strp to a bolt in the lazarette, stbd side. Connected to this bolt is a thick green yellow cable that runs through the outermost conduit on the starboard side of the boat and exits at the nav station where it is terminated behind the chart table and (well mine was) labelled BLU with blue pen - on the cable sheath.

We installed an ICOM 710 on the shelf at the right of the nav station and installed the AT130 tuner in the hanging locker at the end of the pilot berth - because we chose to  have an insulated main backstay antenna.

We cut a hole in the grey conduit passing through the hanging locker in order to get the green yellow ground cable out and pulled through another length of wire from the nav station that would connect the actual radio ground to the tuner ground connection.
The green yellow cable pulled out of the conduit was cut to length to connect to the tuner ground connection.

So now we have 

The SSB Ground plates connected directly to the antenna tuner ground and the antenna tuner ground connected to the ICOM ground.


Others have a whip antenna on the stern of the boat and in this case the antennna tuner is usually mounted in the lazarette and the ground connection made to the bolt on the copper strap as mentioned above.
The green / yellow cable that makes its way to the nav station can then be used to connect to the ground connection of the SSB radio unit.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Alan
Elyse SM437

 


Paul Osterberg
 

Alan
Thank you it helps a lot. Unfortunately we had to leave the boat will be back mid March. Will work further then on my SSB installation.
We thinking of using the "split lead antenna" anyone have experience with that.
? We have only heard positive about it with exception of price
Paul on SYKerpa Small #259


Alan Leslie
 

I can't see how that GAM split lead thingo would work.....I looked into it a few years ago, and I had my doubts about it...
So I opted for an insulated backstay which works well.
i really think a good ground is essential....the antenna could be average, but if you have a good ground it will work...good antenna and average ground...nope...won't work...'That's my experience over the last 20 years.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437



karkauai
 

Thanks Alan!  I guess I'll try again to get my SSB working.  I have an old ICOM 710 that I've spent a good bit on and it has never worked well enough to be useful.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Mar 3, 2016, at 3:29 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I can't see how that GAM split lead thingo would work.....I looked into it a few years ago, and I had my doubts about it...

So I opted for an insulated backstay which works well.
i really think a good ground is essential....the antenna could be average, but if you have a good ground it will work...good antenna and average ground...nope...won't work...'That's my experience over the last 20 years.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437