[Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting Battery


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Jim,

I think the only person(s) capable of answering your start battery question is the previous owner and/or the person that installed that Bluesea battery monitor because Amel did not. Assuming that it is installed correctly (it sounds like that could require a leap of faith), you probably have a short in the 12vdc alternator on the generator... But that is a wild guess.

And, the starting battery is 12vdc and the house battery system is 24vdc. They should be isolated from each other.

Have you located the shunt on the negative side of the starting battery? Where is it? Take a photo? I think you probably have an installation problem with your monitor.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Apr 25, 2016 7:12 PM, "ldesalvo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Group

I have a question regarding my 6.5 KW Onan Generator and the voltage
reading of my starting battery when the Generator is running. When my
generator is off and not running the starting battery voltage reading on
my Bluesea system monitor reads 12.8 volts but when I turn the generator
on the voltage reading is only 3.5 volts. Also it appears that when I
turn the glow plugs on prior to starting the generator the grounding
relay is activated and once the generator is started the grounding relay
turns off. Does anyone have an idea why my Bluesea monitor is reading
low starting battery voltage when the generator is running and how to
correct it?

Also should the starting battery negative terminal be connected to the
negative terminal of the house batteries? I do not see a link between
the two at this time.

Thank you for your help in advance.
Jim, S/V Liebling SM #207
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

----


eric freedman
 

Jim,

As bill mentioned the Generator/engine start battery negative should not be connected to the house bank.

The generator has a floating ground which means as soon as the generator is started the generator is disconnected from the battery, The only thing that is connected to the battery when the generator is running is the Isolated ground Alternator.

 

Did you check to see where the leads for the Blue Seas volt meter are connected?

If it has its ground hooked to the generator you will get an erroneous reading as it is no longer connected to the battery. What reading do you get when the engine is running?

Make sure that the voltmeter is connected both negative and positive directly to the battery.

I believe this might be your problem.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 8:51 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting Battery

 

 

Jim,

I think the only person(s) capable of answering your start battery question is the previous owner and/or the person that installed that Bluesea battery monitor because Amel did not. Assuming that it is installed correctly (it sounds like that could require a leap of faith), you probably have a short in the 12vdc alternator on the generator... But that is a wild guess.

And, the starting battery is 12vdc and the house battery system is 24vdc. They should be isolated from each other.

Have you located the shunt on the negative side of the starting battery? Where is it? Take a photo? I think you probably have an installation problem with your monitor.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Apr 25, 2016 7:12 PM, "ldesalvo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Group

I have a question regarding my 6.5 KW Onan Generator and the voltage
reading of my starting battery when the Generator is running. When my
generator is off and not running the starting battery voltage reading on
my Bluesea system monitor reads 12.8 volts but when I turn the generator
on the voltage reading is only 3.5 volts. Also it appears that when I
turn the glow plugs on prior to starting the generator the grounding
relay is activated and once the generator is started the grounding relay
turns off. Does anyone have an idea why my Bluesea monitor is reading
low starting battery voltage when the generator is running and how to
correct it?

Also should the starting battery negative terminal be connected to the
negative terminal of the house batteries? I do not see a link between
the two at this time.

Thank you for your help in advance.
Jim, S/V Liebling SM #207
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

----


ldesalvo@...
 

Eric and Bill,

Thank you for your speedy comments and warnings. I will share your input with my electrician tomorrow and get back to you.

Jim SM #207


On 2016-04-25 21:46, sailormon kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners] wrote:
JIM,
AS BILL MENTIONED THE GENERATOR/ENGINE START BATTERY NEGATIVE SHOULD
NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE HOUSE BANK.
THE GENERATOR HAS A FLOATING GROUND WHICH MEANS AS SOON AS THE
GENERATOR IS STARTED THE GENERATOR IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE BATTERY,
THE ONLY THING THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY WHEN THE GENERATOR IS
RUNNING IS THE ISOLATED GROUND ALTERNATOR.
DID YOU CHECK TO SEE WHERE THE LEADS FOR THE BLUE SEAS VOLT METER ARE
CONNECTED?
IF IT HAS ITS GROUND HOOKED TO THE GENERATOR YOU WILL GET AN ERRONEOUS
READING AS IT IS NO LONGER CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY. WHAT READING DO
YOU GET WHEN THE ENGINE IS RUNNING?
MAKE SURE THAT THE VOLTMETER IS CONNECTED BOTH NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE
DIRECTLY TO THE BATTERY.
I BELIEVE THIS MIGHT BE YOUR PROBLEM.
FAIR WINDS
ERIC
KIMBERLITE AMEL SUPER MARAMU #376
< div>
FROM: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
SENT: Monday, April 25, 2016 8:51 PM
TO: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
SUBJECT: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting Battery
Jim,
I think the only person(s) capable of answering your start battery
question is the previous owner and/or the person that installed that
Bluesea battery monitor because Amel did not. Assuming that it is
installed correctly (it sounds like that could require a leap of
faith), you probably have a short in the 12vdc alternator on the
generator... But that is a wild guess.
And, the starting battery is 12vdc and the house battery system is
24vdc. They should be isolated from each other.
Have you located the shunt on the negative side of the starting
battery? Where is it? Take a photo? I think you probably have an
installation problem with your monitor.
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Apr 25, 2016 7:12 PM, "ldesalvo@bigplanet.com [amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hello Group
I have a question regarding my 6.5 KW Onan Generator and the voltage
reading of my starting battery when the Generator is running. When my
generator is off and not running the starting battery voltage reading
on
my Bluesea system monitor reads 12.8 volts but when I turn the
generator
on the voltage reading is only 3.5 volts. Also it appears that when I
turn the glow plugs on prior to starting the generator the grounding
relay is activated and once the generator is started the grounding
relay
turns off. Does anyone have an idea why my Bluesea monitor is reading
low starting battery voltage when the generator is running and how to
correct it?
Also should the starting battery negative terminal be connected to the
negative terminal of the house batteries? I do not see a link between
the two at this time.
Thank you for your help in advance.
Jim, S/V Liebling SM #207
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
----
Links:
------
[1]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/conversations/messages/26644;_ylc=X3oDMTJxY2VraHY2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBG1zZ0lkAzI2NjQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQ--?act=reply&messageNum=26644
[2]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcWI3MTFsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQ--
[3]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/conversations/topics/26545;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWFpbzhnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBG1zZ0lkAzI2NjQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQR0cGNJZAMyNjU0NQ--
[4] https://yho.com/1wwmgg
[5]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZDc4b2l0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQ--
[6]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdW0za204BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0NjE2MzUxODE-
[7]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/photostream;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZzN1bnFyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzE0NjE2MzUxODE-
[8]
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOXFzb24xBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDYxNjM1MTgx
[9] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
[10] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
----


Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Jim

 

A couple of years ago I changed my Xantec monitor to a Victron Monitor which advertised that it would measure the house batteries and the starter motor battery for me. I thought this would be really good as well as the fact that it integrates with the other Victron products and allows me to gather together all the charging, inverting solar power data etc and remotely monitor these. Problem is on the Amel the house batteries and started battery are isolated from each other and the Victron battery monitor relies on them sharing the –ve to measure load and voltage correctly. I therefore get pretty much a random value usually around 3 volts on the starter battery recorded – it does vary a bit but essentially it is random as the two systems are isolated from each other. I wonder if you are experiencing the same thing -  I just decided to live with it rather than making any changes to the isolation that is clearly there by design.

 

Andrew

 

 

Ronpische

SM 472

Canet–en-Roussillon

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: 26 April 2016 06:18
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting Battery

 

 

Eric and Bill,

Thank you for your speedy comments and warnings. I will share your
input with my electrician tomorrow and get back to you.

Jim SM #207

On 2016-04-25 21:46, sailormon kimberlite@...
[amelyachtowners] wrote:
> JIM,
>
> AS BILL MENTIONED THE GENERATOR/ENGINE START BATTERY NEGATIVE SHOULD
> NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE HOUSE BANK.
>
> THE GENERATOR HAS A FLOATING GROUND WHICH MEANS AS SOON AS THE
> GENERATOR IS STARTED THE GENERATOR IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE BATTERY,
> THE ONLY THING THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY WHEN THE GENERATOR IS
> RUNNING IS THE ISOLATED GROUND ALTERNATOR.
>
> DID YOU CHECK TO SEE WHERE THE LEADS FOR THE BLUE SEAS VOLT METER ARE
> CONNECTED?
>
> IF IT HAS ITS GROUND HOOKED TO THE GENERATOR YOU WILL GET AN ERRONEOUS
> READING AS IT IS NO LONGER CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY. WHAT READING DO
> YOU GET WHEN THE ENGINE IS RUNNING?
>
> MAKE SURE THAT THE VOLTMETER IS CONNECTED BOTH NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE
> DIRECTLY TO THE BATTERY.
>
> I BELIEVE THIS MIGHT BE YOUR PROBLEM.
>
> FAIR WINDS
>
> ERIC
>
> KIMBERLITE AMEL SUPER MARAMU #376
>
> < div>
>
> FROM: amelyachtowners@...
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> SENT: Monday, April 25, 2016 8:51 PM
> TO: amelyachtowners@...
> SUBJECT: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting Battery
>
> Jim,
>
> I think the only person(s) capable of answering your start battery
> question is the previous owner and/or the person that installed that
> Bluesea battery monitor because Amel did not. Assuming that it is
> installed correctly (it sounds like that could require a leap of
> faith), you probably have a short in the 12vdc alternator on the
> generator... But that is a wild guess.
>
> And, the starting battery is 12vdc and the house battery system is
> 24vdc. They should be isolated from each other.
>
> Have you located the shunt on the negative side of the starting
> battery? Where is it? Take a photo? I think you probably have an
> installation problem with your monitor.
>
> Bill Rouse
> BeBe Amel 53 #387
> Sent from my tablet
> +1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
>
> On Apr 25, 2016 7:12 PM, "ldesalvo@... [amelyachtowners]"
> <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Group
>
> I have a question regarding my 6.5 KW Onan Generator and the voltage
> reading of my starting battery when the Generator is running. When my
> generator is off and not running the starting battery voltage reading
> on
> my Bluesea system monitor reads 12.8 volts but when I turn the
> generator
> on the voltage reading is only 3.5 volts. Also it appears that when I
> turn the glow plugs on prior to starting the generator the grounding
> relay is activated and once the generator is started the grounding
> relay
> turns off. Does anyone have an idea why my Bluesea monitor is reading
> low starting battery voltage when the generator is running and how to
> correct it?
>
> Also should the starting battery negative terminal be connected to the
>
> negative terminal of the house batteries? I do not see a link between
> the two at this time.
>
> Thank you for your help in advance.
> Jim, S/V Liebling SM #207
> Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
>
> ----
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/conversations/messages/26644;_ylc=X3oDMTJxY2VraHY2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBG1zZ0lkAzI2NjQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQ--?act=reply&messageNum=26644
> [2]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcWI3MTFsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQ--
> [3]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/conversations/topics/26545;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWFpbzhnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBG1zZ0lkAzI2NjQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQR0cGNJZAMyNjU0NQ--
> [4] https://yho.com/1wwmgg
> [5]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZDc4b2l0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MTYzNTE4MQ--
> [6]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdW0za204BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0NjE2MzUxODE-
> [7]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/photostream;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZzN1bnFyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzE0NjE2MzUxODE-
> [8]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOXFzb24xBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzUwMzYyMjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NzkyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDYxNjM1MTgx
> [9] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> [10] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

----


ldesalvo@...
 

Hello Andrew and thank you for your reply.

Yes I currently have the same condition with the starting battery voltage reading on my system monitor reading low voltage. But when the generator is off the monitor reads the correct voltage for the starting battery. Does yours do the same?

Jim S/V Liebling, PV Mexico


On 2016-04-26 03:22, Andrew Lamb andrew.lamb@telemed.co.uk [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Jim
A couple of years ago I changed my Xantec monitor to a Victron Monitor
which advertised that it would measure the house batteries and the
starter motor battery for me. I thought this would be really good as
well as the fact that it integrates with the other Victron products
and allows me to gather together all the charging, inverting solar
power data etc and remotely monitor these. Problem is on the Amel the
house batteries and started battery are isolated from each other and
the Victron battery monitor relies on them sharing the -ve to measure
load and voltage correctly. I therefore get pretty much a random value
usually around 3 volts on the starter battery recorded - it does vary
a bit but essentially it is random as the two systems are isolated
from each other. I wonder if you are experiencing the same thing - I
just decided to live with it rather than making any changes to the
isolation that is clearly there by design.
Andrew
Ronpische
SM 472
Canet-en-Roussillon
FROM: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
SENT: 26 April 2016 06:18
TO: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
SUBJECT: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting Battery
Eric and Bill,
Thank you for your speedy comments and warnings. I will share your
input with my electrician tomorrow and get back to you.
Jim SM #207
On 2016-04-25 21:46, sailormon kimberlite@optonline.net
[amelyachtowners] wrote:
> JIM,
>
> AS BILL MENTIONED THE GENERATOR/ENGINE START BATTERY NEGATIVE
SHOULD
> NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE HOUSE BANK.
>
> THE GENERATOR HAS A FLOATING GROUND WHICH MEANS AS SOON AS THE
> GENERATOR IS STARTED THE GENERATOR IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE
BATTERY,
> THE ONLY THING THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY WHEN THE GENERATOR
IS
> RUNNING IS THE ISOLATED GROUND ALTERNATOR.
>
> DID YOU CHECK TO SEE WHERE THE LEADS FOR THE BLUE SEAS VOLT METER
ARE
> CONNECTED?
>
> IF IT HAS ITS GROUND HOOKED TO THE GENERATOR YOU WILL GET AN
ERRONEOUS
> READING AS IT IS NO LONGER CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY. WHAT READING
DO
> YOU GET WHEN THE ENGINE IS RUNNING?
>
> MAKE SURE THAT THE VOLTMETER IS CONNECTED BOTH NEGATIVE AND
POSITIVE
> DIRECTLY TO THE BATTERY.
>
> I BELIEVE THIS MIGHT BE YOUR PROBLEM.
>
> FAIR WINDS
>
> ERIC
>
> KIMBERLITE AMEL SUPER MARAMU #376
>
> < div>
>
> FROM: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
> SENT: Monday, April 25, 2016 8:51 PM
> TO: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
> SUBJECT: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator and Starting
Battery
>
> Jim,
>
> I think the only person(s) capable of answering your start battery
> question is the previous owner and/or the person that installed
that
> Bluesea battery monitor because Amel did not. Assuming that it is
> installed correctly (it sounds like that could require a leap of
> faith), you probably have a short in the 12vdc alternator on the
> generator... But that is a wild guess.
>
> And, the starting battery is 12vdc and the house battery system is
> 24vdc. They should be isolated from each other.
>
> Have you located the shunt on the negative side of the starting
> battery? Where is it? Take a photo? I think you probably have an
> installation problem with your monitor.
>
> Bill Rouse
> BeBe Amel 53 #387
> Sent from my tablet
> +1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
>
> On Apr 25, 2016 7:12 PM, "ldesalvo@bigplanet.com [amelyachtowners]"
> <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Group
>
> I have a question regarding my 6.5 KW Onan Generator and the
voltage
> reading of my starting battery when the Generator is running. When
my
> generator is off and not running the starting battery voltage
reading
> on
> my Bluesea system monitor reads 12.8 volts but when I turn the
> generator
> on the voltage reading is only 3.5 volts. Also it appears that when
I
> turn the glow plugs on prior to starting the generator the
grounding
> relay is activated and once the generator is started the grounding
> relay
> turns off. Does anyone have an idea why my Bluesea monitor is
reading
> low starting battery voltage when the generator is running and how
to
> correct it?
>
> Also should the starting battery negative terminal be connected to
the
>
> negative terminal of the house batteries? I do not see a link
between
> the two at this time.
>
> Thank you for your help in advance.
> Jim, S/V Liebling SM #207
> Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

----