Gents, recently had a water in oil problems with my Onan, the boat is 2 years old, sailed on a tight starboard tack for 80 miles in 20-25 knots, didn't use generator at all during the trip, tried to start generator when arrived in harbour and no go

When I checked it had about 1-2 liters of water in the oil, drained and changed oil and filter ran it 2 hours then drained and changed oil and filter again. It's working ok now, no issues but my question is how did water get into the motor. The only way seems to be via the wet exhaust system. Has anyone else had this problem and can offer advice to cure it.

Have sailed about 10000nm in far heavier weather and no issues before.

Bob Grey

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

Bob,

You have a 55, correct?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Apr 28, 2016 6:09 AM, "Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Gents, recently had a water in oil problems with my Onan, the boat is 2 years old, sailed on a tight starboard tack for 80 miles in 20-25 knots, didn't use generator at all during the trip, tried to start generator when arrived in harbour and no go

When I checked it had about 1-2 liters of water in the oil, drained and changed oil and filter ran it 2 hours then drained and changed oil and filter again. It's working ok now, no issues but my question is how did water get into the motor. The only way seems to be via the wet exhaust system. Has anyone else had this problem and can offer advice to cure it.

Have sailed about 10000nm in far heavier weather and no issues before.

Bob Grey

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

On the Amel 55 that I had as a demonstrator, also called RENAISSANCE, I believe there was a vented loop, with a siphon break in the highest point, on the gen set exhaust. If your boat is so equipped, sometimes the siphon break can get stopped up with salt crystals and fail to prevent a siphon of sea water into the engine on the side exit exhaust system.
Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.

Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.

Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Bob,

I would be interested in what Amel did differently, if anything, with the installation of that Onan in your 55 versus a Super Maramu or 54. I suspect that there is some difference because as far as I know, nobody else has had this problem.

Of course, it could be that your 55 is the only 55, or the only Amel, that had this problem.

If you learn more, please post.

Bill

BeBe 387

Currently Bequia 

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.

Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Hi Bob. Good sleuthing. I am puzzled by the ‘blocked with rust’ observation. Chunks of  oxidized metal? A heavy film of rust inside the anti-syphon? Could you give us a bit more of an idea about the corrosion you found? Thanks in advance… Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 6:50 AM
To: yahoogroups ; Joel Potter
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

 

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

 

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.

Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Joel, the material that came out was powdered rust and blocked the pipe where it was welded into the larger U. There was only about 1cm of blockage, at the end where the small pipe was welded, it was possibly not treated and cleaned or the two pipes and or the welded material were slightly disimular composition stainless steel and allowed surface corrosion too occur  which built up over two years. There was no corrosion evident anywhere else on the piece.

Another thing to check annually.

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, May 13, 2016, 08:43, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bob. Good sleuthing. I am puzzled by the ‘blocked with rust’ observation. Chunks of  oxidized metal? A heavy film of rust inside the anti-syphon? Could you give us a bit more of an idea about the corrosion you found? Thanks in advance… Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 6:50 AM
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>; Joel Potter <jfpottercys@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

 

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

 

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.

Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954-812-2485

On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail