[Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster
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amelforme
Just so owners of earlier/pre-Millennium model Super Maramu’s are not confused by Walters otherwise correct and helpful posting on the bow thruster’s containment/drainage system on his late model SM 53, the earlier boats did not have this provision. Leakage from the thruster would make its way to the base of the main mast compression assembly at the foot of the watertight bulkhead separating the saloon from the forecabin. Use a sponge to transfer the sea water into the shower drain pan and service the thruster soon if leaks are present.
Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY 954 462 5869 office 954 812 2485 cell
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2016 2:33 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster
Dear group, referring to a topic some time ago about the bow thruster - if it is leaking, how to prevent water getting into the boat ...
Kind regards,
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I was surprised to read that post...
Our SM is #437 and we have exactly what you describe here Joel...no drain from the bow thruster compartment Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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amelforme
Wow, Alan. Now I am thoroughly confused. Is your bow thruster located inside of a sealed watertight containment where you have to remove an aft facing panel to gain access to the entirety of the thruster? With a little inspection/access door at the top? Or is it in an open compartment with a leather curtain hiding it from view?
Your production number should provide for the installation of the one with the containment and a separate shut off valve just in front of the forward air conditioner unit near the shut off valve for the chain locker.
I am more than curious to discover what you have aboard ELYSE. Please let me know…
All The Best, Joel Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY 954 462 5869 office 954 812 2485 cell
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2016 3:53 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster
I was surprised to read that post... Our SM is #437 and we have exactly what you describe here Joel...no drain from the bow thruster compartment Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Hi Joel,
Yes we have the wooden panel with the perspex hinged top to access the pin, not the curtain. I can confirm there is only one pipe and valve and that is for the anchor locker. Also, just before we did the bowthruster seals last year, we had a small amount of salt water in the well outside the forward head, now with new seals and proper adjustment we are dry. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Walter
Hi Allan,
#436 and #437 must have met when being built in 2004. Although the first owner of Noa let Amel built a few bits and pieces to his liking, I´m pretty sure the setup of draining the bow thruster compartment was not his idea. It would be nice to meet and compare the boats. Cheers, Walter (Noa, SM436)
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Hi Walter,
Where are you? We are in New Zealand waiting for weather to take us to Fiji. Do you have any photos of this bowthruster drain pipe arrangement that you have and I don't? Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Walter
Hi Alan, New Zealand - we found it very hard to leave. Noa is currently in Lisbon, so a bit far for a little cuddle up of #436 and #437 at the moment. I´ll post some photos later. Cheers, Walter (Noa, SM436)
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Joel,
I checked in my boat and as you mention, there is no draining tube out of the bow thruster compartment and that explain why we have been frustrated drying up with a sponge the water that regularly collects from the leaking bow thruster seals Since I bought my boat, I have serviced the bow thruster and replaced all seals in my SM278 several times (5 in 6 years) . In all cases a leak developed around the lip seal soon after service. In fact, just after I bought the boat, the previous owner told me he had just serviced the thruster. I was really shocked when I found the the compartment filled with water after just one overnight from Florida to Savanna. I proceeded to replace all seals following AMEL instructions and the leak stopped for about a year. That was the longest period without a leak and the start of my saga. For the second to last service I spoke with AMEL in France and was recommended to add a third foam seal to the thruster assembly but that only eliminated the leak for a few weeks. As I was about to cross the Atlantic, I developed a system with a clamp that I secured around the shaft and pushed down to create a good seal. That worked well for the one year trip from Boston to Spain, Caribe, Santa Marta, Fort Lauderdale and back to Boston. Although my solution is good and I recommend it to anybody doing long crossings, as I returned to Boston it became a nuisance to have to clamp and unclamp the thruster every time we left the marina. So, taking advantage that I was giving Ipanema a new bottom paint las week, I serviced the bow thruster system for the last time and carefully cleaned the surfaces and changed again all the foam and lip seals and I added two extra turns to the top screw to bring the motor up as much as It was possible. Sadly, on my return trip from Glaucester to Boston under moderate waves I noted again a leak around the lip seal (brand new) in spite of the fact that I had to add manually quite a bit of extra tension to the cable in order to align the holes to pass the securing pin. Do you or anybody in this group have an idea of why is this leak persisting in my boat? I believe that the bottom two foam seals should be enough to completely seal the system and the lip seal should only work during the short period of time deploying or retracting the bow thruster. So if they are not preventing a leak, it must be that in my boat poor alignment between the sealing surfaces may have developed or becomes important when tension is added to the cable to increase the sealing force. Any suggestion about how to fix this problem. It must not be very common as few people complain about it in this forum, but it may have been enough of a nuisance for Amel to add the tubbing/valve to isolate and send the leaking water to the main bilge. Has any one retrofitted such a tubbing/valve in SM2K earlier than the redlined version? Jose Venegas Ipanema SM2K 278 Constitution Marina, Boston MA
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sailormon <kimberlite@...>
Hola Jose, Exactly where is the bow thruster leaking? Is it around the large lip seal and the foam disks, or is it coming up the bow thruster and leaking oily water.?Your problem seems somewhat isolated in this forum. Most people who rebuild the thruster have no further problems. 2 months ago we beat into 35-50 knots for 9 days from Santa Marta Colombia to Guadeloupe and not a drop of water entered. Do you plan on being in Boston this weekend. I am headed up there by car on business and possibly we can meet. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:48 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster
Joel, I checked in my boat and as you mention, there is no draining tube out of the bow thruster compartment and that explain why we have been frustrated drying up with a sponge the water that regularly collects from the leaking bow thruster seals
Since I bought my boat, I have serviced the bow thruster and replaced all seals in my SM278 several times (5 in 6 years) . In all cases a leak developed around the lip seal soon after service. In fact, just after I bought the boat, the previous owner told me he had just serviced the thruster. I was really shocked when I found the the compartment filled with water after just one overnight from Florida to Savanna. I proceeded to replace all seals following AMEL instructions and the leak stopped for about a year. That was the longest period without a leak and the start of my saga.
For the second to last service I spoke with AMEL in France and was recommended to add a third foam seal to the thruster assembly but that only eliminated the leak for a few weeks. As I was about to cross the Atlantic, I developed a system with a clamp that I secured around the shaft and pushed down to create a good seal. That worked well for the one year trip from Boston to Spain, Caribe, Santa Marta, Fort Lauderdale and back to Boston. Although my solution is good and I recommend it to anybody doing long crossings, as I returned to Boston it became a nuisance to have to clamp and unclamp the thruster every time we left the marina. So, taking advantage that I was giving Ipanema a new bottom paint las week, I serviced the bow thruster system for the last time and carefully cleaned the surfaces and changed again all the foam and lip seals and I added two extra turns to the top screw to bring the motor up as much as It was possible. Sadly, on my return trip from Glaucester to Boston under moderate waves I noted again a leak around the lip seal (brand new) in spite of the fact that I had to add manually quite a bit of extra tension to the cable in order to align the holes to pass the securing pin.
Do you or anybody in this group have an idea of why is this leak persisting in my boat?
I believe that the bottom two foam seals should be enough to completely seal the system and the lip seal should only work during the short period of time deploying or retracting the bow thruster. So if they are not preventing a leak, it must be that in my boat poor alignment between the sealing surfaces may have developed or becomes important when tension is added to the cable to increase the sealing force.
Any suggestion about how to fix this problem. It must not be very common as few people complain about it in this forum, but it may have been enough of a nuisance for Amel to add the tubbing/valve to isolate and send the leaking water to the main bilge.
Has any one retrofitted such a tubbing/valve in SM2K earlier than the redlined version?
Jose Venegas Ipanema SM2K 278 Constitution Marina, Boston MA
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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Jose,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Did “Amel” recommended to add a 3rd seal??? Could you please send me picture of the “system with a clamp” that you develop? I was thinking of a similar device. I own my vessel since 2012 and the bow thruster also start leaking after 1 year of use (even after being serviced by Amel Martinique with a new bow thruster foot). Consequently, I checked the bilge near the forward head every time I sail and I also installed a high water alarm and bilge pump. http://www.nikimat.com/bilge_pump_high_water_alarm_bow_thruster.html Every year when do the overhaul, the foam look good (but I still change them). I often suspect this is coming from the seal. It seems the problem start if I accidentally motor over 2.5 kt (bow thruster down) which is some time unavoidable with 2 kt current. I was also wondering if this was because of the rigging which I have not redone, but I just did the overhaul 2 months ago (and not the rigging) and no leak now even in 9ft seas. My latest thought is the “contact cement” which could degrades after 1 year, but I don’t know for sure. Our hull number are not far apart, may be there was a slight different design at that time. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico --------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/7/16, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2016, 9:48 PM Joel,I checked in my boat and as you mention, there is no draining tube out of the bow thruster compartment and that explain why we have been frustrated drying up with a sponge the water that regularly collects from the leaking bow thruster seals Since I bought my boat, I have serviced the bow thruster and replaced all seals in my SM278 several times (5 in 6 years) . In all cases a leak developed around the lip seal soon after service. In fact, just after I bought the boat, the previous owner told me he had just serviced the thruster. I was really shocked when I found the the compartment filled with water after just one overnight from Florida to Savanna. I proceeded to replace all seals following AMEL instructions and the leak stopped for about a year. That was the longest period without a leak and the start of my saga. For the second to last service I spoke with AMEL in France and was recommended to add a third foam seal to the thruster assembly but that only eliminated the leak for a few weeks. As I was about to cross the Atlantic, I developed a system with a clamp that I secured around the shaft and pushed down to create a good seal. That worked well for the one year trip from Boston to Spain, Caribe, Santa Marta, Fort Lauderdale and back to Boston. Although my solution is good and I recommend it to anybody doing long crossings, as I returned to Boston it became a nuisance to have to clamp and unclamp the thruster every time we left the marina. So, taking advantage that I was giving Ipanema a new bottom paint las week, I serviced the bow thruster system for the last time and carefully cleaned the surfaces and changed again all the foam and lip seals and I added two extra turns to the top screw to bring the motor up as much as It was possible. Sadly, on my return trip from Glaucester to Boston under moderate waves I noted again a leak around the lip seal (brand new) in spite of the fact that I had to add manually quite a bit of extra tension to the cable in order to align the holes to pass the securing pin. Do you or anybody in this group have an idea of why is this leak persisting in my boat? I believe that the bottom two foam seals should be enough to completely seal the system and the lip seal should only work during the short period of time deploying or retracting the bow thruster. So if they are not preventing a leak, it must be that in my boat poor alignment between the sealing surfaces may have developed or becomes important when tension is added to the cable to increase the sealing force. Any suggestion about how to fix this problem. It must not be very common as few people complain about it in this forum, but it may have been enough of a nuisance for Amel to add the tubbing/valve to isolate and send the leaking water to the main bilge. Has any one retrofitted such a tubbing/valve in SM2K earlier than the redlined version? Jose VenegasIpanema SM2K 278 Constitution Marina, Boston MA
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Andrew & Kate Lamb
This will not help you Jose but I am going to mention the problems I had with my bow thruster for the benefit of the forum.
When we first bought the boat and were “virgin” Amel owner we did have quite a bit of leaking from the bow thruster on our first voyage, when we were crossing the Gulf de Lion.
Since then we have replaced the seals and foot oil each year and have adjusted the rigging to ensure the foot is always pulled up tightly against the seals, when the thruster is in the up position. However we have had a lot of problems both with the raising and lowering mechanism which resulted in us changing the linear actuator 2 years ago, changing the sensors and rebuilding the control box. This part of the system now seems to be working very well. Having thought our problems were over, last year the bow thruster main motor stopped functioning – there turned out to be issues with the connections of the coils in the armature and commutator - I made some fixes to this (documented on this site) and the motor started functioning again. It has been ok since until last week when the motor failed again.
I contacted Maud at Amel (whom incidentally I have always found to be very helpful) but she told me that these motors are no longer manufactured and at the moment they have no solution to offer either in terms of replacement or reparation. I have found a local motor engineering workshop near Perpignan who reckon they should be able to repair the motor, by changing the commutator and possibly some coils – however if they are unable to repair the motor then we have some serious thinking to do to figure out how we can get a working bow thruster again and we may have to even consider a more “conventional” approach to this. It is sobering to think that increasingly we may find that when parts of our boats malfunction that we may not be able to get replacements.
Andrew
Ronpische SM 472 Canet–en-Roussillon
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: 8 June 2016 13:24 To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster
Good morning Jose,
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Good afternoon Alexander:
Yes I was told to add a third seal but that did not fix the problem. I am uploading the pix of my Clamp system to the photos section. Last Sunday we came back from Gloucester to Boston with 30-40 knots wind on the beam. I used the clamp and had virtually no water into the boat. I also noticed that, as I was predicting, pulling the rod slightly back reduced the leak to a dribble, which confirmed my theory about the eccentricity of the rod relative to the seal. I found a seal maker that is making one seal with a softer material and greater give so that the seal will not leak when the rod is of center. I am hopeful it will work but not count on it given my previous experiences. Anyway I will let you all know Jose Ipanema SM 278 Constitution Marina Boston
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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Thanks for the info Jose,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
So you were told "by" Amel to add a 3rd seal? Not by a non-Amel person. Can you precise: "pulling the rode slightly back" do you mean the bow thruster feet? Pictures always help. Sincerely, Alexandre --------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/14/16, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow thruster To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2016, 5:08 PM Good afternoon Alexander: Yes I was told to add a third seal but that did not fix the problem. I am uploading the pix of my Clamp system to the photos section. Last Sunday we came back from Gloucester to Boston with 30-40 knots wind on the beam. I used the clamp and had virtually no water into the boat. I also noticed that, as I was predicting, pulling the rod slightly back reduced the leak to a dribble, which confirmed my theory about the eccentricity of the rod relative to the seal. I found a seal maker that is making one seal with a softer material and greater give so that the seal will not leak when the rod is of center. I am hopeful it will work but not count on it given my previous experiences. Anyway I will let you all know Jose Ipanema SM 278 Constitution MarinaBoston #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572 -- #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp #yiv1137392572hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp #yiv1137392572ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp .yiv1137392572ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp .yiv1137392572ad p { margin:0;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-mkp .yiv1137392572ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-sponsor #yiv1137392572ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv1137392572 #yiv1137392572ygrp-sponsor #yiv1137392572ygrp-lc #yiv1137392572hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv1137392572 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Alexander,
Answer is yes to both. Obviously in the water you cannot pull the the bow thruster "foot" unless you dive. I pulled the rod that links the motor to the foot of the truster. Glad the pix was of use Jose
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