[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger


sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Hi Alan,

I am not on Kimberlite.

Could you Email me a photo of that connection?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Kimberlite@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding.....

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Eric,

This is the connection that Alan refers to on the Amel installed Calpeda BCM20E pump:
  1. You know the Amel bonding system is connected to the Calpeda pump housing by the hose clamp around the exit pipe...right?
  2. Open the wiring box on top of the Calpeda pump and you will see that 230VAC Earth is connected to the pump housing.
All things are not perfect, but perfection is attempted.

However, I think that you and others have replaced the Calpeda pump with a March/May magnetic drive pump which will eliminate this issue because the magnetic drive is not electrically bonded to the 230VAC motor (I think) and the magnetic drive can be connected to the Amel bonding without a connection to Earth.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 8:26 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Alan,

I am not on Kimberlite.

Could you Email me a photo of that connection?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Kimberlite@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding.....

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Thanks Bill

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 6:40 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Eric,

 

This is the connection that Alan refers to on the Amel installed Calpeda BCM20E pump:

  1. You know the Amel bonding system is connected to the Calpeda pump housing by the hose clamp around the exit pipe...right?
  2. Open the wiring box on top of the Calpeda pump and you will see that 230VAC Earth is connected to the pump housing.

All things are not perfect, but perfection is attempted.

 

However, I think that you and others have replaced the Calpeda pump with a March/May magnetic drive pump which will eliminate this issue because the magnetic drive is not electrically bonded to the 230VAC motor (I think) and the magnetic drive can be connected to the Amel bonding without a connection to Earth.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 8:26 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Alan,

I am not on Kimberlite.

Could you Email me a photo of that connection?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Kimberlite@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding.....

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 


sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Hi Bill,

My Calpeda pump is working fine and I have a spare so it will be a while before I change it.

I was thinking that if I make a small galvanic isolator to put into the AC ground of this pump, it would solve the problem.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 6:40 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Eric,

 

This is the connection that Alan refers to on the Amel installed Calpeda BCM20E pump:

  1. You know the Amel bonding system is connected to the Calpeda pump housing by the hose clamp around the exit pipe...right?
  2. Open the wiring box on top of the Calpeda pump and you will see that 230VAC Earth is connected to the pump housing.

All things are not perfect, but perfection is attempted.

 

However, I think that you and others have replaced the Calpeda pump with a March/May magnetic drive pump which will eliminate this issue because the magnetic drive is not electrically bonded to the 230VAC motor (I think) and the magnetic drive can be connected to the Amel bonding without a connection to Earth.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 8:26 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Alan,

I am not on Kimberlite.

Could you Email me a photo of that connection?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Kimberlite@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding.....

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 


Alan Leslie
 

I'm not so sure how much of an issue this is.
Olivier advised that on the 55 and the 64 the bonding is connected to the AC ground.
I can only see it being an issue if at a marina the boat is connected to shore power and there is a ground leak...but there should be an ELCB on the marina power post that would trip if that was the case...
A galvanic isolator in line with the ground in the AC feed from the shore power would show if there was a stray current problem ... we should all have one of these
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Olivier Beaute
 

Hello Enio and everybody concerned with earth/ground/bonding whatever it is called,

every SM, Santorin, AMEL 54, 55, 64 owner can easily check that the AC ground/earth circuit and the ground circuit that connects all metal parts together with the rudder zincs (engine body, transmission, pipings, valves, pumps, water-maker, boiler,etc...) are connected together.
For instance, try to measure the resistance between the earth pole of an AC outlet, and the engine body. It will be 0.0 ohm. This is normal. In some boats, you will find 0.0 between the AC earth pole and the galley sink faucet.
The AC cooling pump (model CALPEDA) is obviously connected to 230V earth and to the general ground, the hot water maker too.
There is nothing wrong about that.
Now, some of you sometimes install new equipments, especially inverters, that, internally, make a connection between 24V (12V for the Santorin) negative and the ground (zincs). This should not be. This means the equipment is not made for your boat. Find an inverter that will not connect 24V (12V) negative to the ground.

Moreover, with the age or another cause, some equipments become faulty (too much carbon dust bringing power to an electric motor's housing) and can cause electrolytic corrosion (which is different from galvanic corrosion). This is the life of the vessel and the reason why AMEL finally installed leak detectors on the 24V circuits (from approximately 2000 on).

How can you detect that you may have a power leak that could damage the metal parts of your boat? By checking frequently the zincs and all metal parts in water (that you can see, propeller, rudder shaft and supports, brass through-hull fittings).
A boat unattended shouldn't be  a problem as long as the batteries are OFF and the shore power cord disconnected from the dock outlet.

Checking the boat's potential with a silver/silver chlorure electrode is also a good thing, if you do it frequently.

Don't get paranoïd but be careful with any new equipment installed: after wiring, and in use, there should not be any power coming into the ground/zincs.

Enio, once  your new charger is installed, check the resistance between the charger's housing and the AC ground. It should be 0.0 ohm. This is for your own protection (human body protection).
If your new charger is also an inverter. Check that there is no power on the charger/inverter's body (check the voltage with AC and DC).
If you find that the charger's body is internally connected to the negative DC (What is the kind of your AMEL? SM, Santorin?) or to the AC neutral, don't install it. Find another one, isolated.

Olivier.




On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 11:06 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I'm not so sure how much of an issue this is.
Olivier advised that on the 55 and the 64 the bonding is connected to the AC ground.
I can only see it being an issue if at a marina the boat is connected to shore power and there is a ground leak...but there should be an ELCB on the marina power post that would trip if that was the case...
A galvanic isolator in line with the ground in the AC feed from the shore power would show if there was a stray current problem ... we should all have one of these
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Eric,

That would do it...DIY - some diodes and a capacitor. It would only have to be rated for 2 amps.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:04 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

My Calpeda pump is working fine and I have a spare so it will be a while before I change it.

I was thinking that if I make a small galvanic isolator to put into the AC ground of this pump, it would solve the problem.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 6:40 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Eric,

 

This is the connection that Alan refers to on the Amel installed Calpeda BCM20E pump:

  1. You know the Amel bonding system is connected to the Calpeda pump housing by the hose&nbs p;clamp around the exit pipe...right?
  2. Open the wiring box on top of the Calpeda pump and you will see that 230VAC Earth is connected to the pump housing.

All things are not perfect, but perfection is attempted.

 

However, I think that you and others have replaced the Calpeda pump with a March/May magnetic drive pump which will eliminate this issue because the magnetic drive is not electrically bonded to the 230VAC motor (I think) and the magnetic drive can be connected to the Amel bonding without a connection to Earth.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 8:26 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Alan,

I am not on Kimberlite.

Could you Email me a photo of that connection?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Kimberlite@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 201 6 4:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding.....

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

& nbsp;



Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Great explanation. Thank you!!

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 1, 2016, at 06:18, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Enio and everybody concerned with earth/ground/bonding whatever it is called,

every SM, Santorin, AMEL 54, 55, 64 owner can easily check that the AC ground/earth circuit and the ground circuit that connects all metal parts together with the rudder zincs (engine body, transmission, pipings, valves, pumps, water-maker, boiler,etc...) are connected together.
For instance, try to measure the resistance between the earth pole of an AC outlet, and the engine body. It will be 0.0 ohm. This is normal. In some boats, you will find 0.0 between the AC earth pole and the galley sink faucet.
The AC cooling pump (model CALPEDA) is obviously connected to 230V earth and to the general ground, the hot water maker too.
There is nothing wrong about that.
Now, some of you sometimes install new equipments, especially inverters, that, internally, make a connection between 24V (12V for the Santorin) negative and the ground (zincs). This should not be. This means the equipment is not made for your boat. Find an inverter that will not connect 24V (12V) negative to the ground.

Moreover, with the age or another cause, some equipments become faulty (too much carbon dust bringing power to an electric motor's housing) and can cause electrolytic corrosion (which is different from galvanic corrosion). This is the life of the vessel and the reason why AMEL finally installed leak detectors on the 24V circuits (from approximately 2000 on).

How can you detect that you may have a power leak that could damage the metal parts of your boat? By checking frequently the zincs and all metal parts in water (that you can see, propeller, rudder shaft and supports, brass through-hull fittings).
A boat unattended shouldn't be  a problem as long as the batteries are OFF and the shore power cord disconnected from the dock outlet.

Checking the boat's potential with a silver/silver chlorure electrode is also a good thing, if you do it frequently.

Don't get paranoïd but be careful with any new equipment installed: after wiring, and in use, there should not be any power coming into the ground/zincs.

Enio, once  your new charger is installed, check the resistance between the charger's housing and the AC ground. It should be 0.0 ohm. This is for your own protection (human body protection).
If your new charger is also an inverter. Check that there is no power on the charger/inverter's body (check the voltage with AC and DC).
If you find that the charger's body is internally connected to the negative DC (What is the kind of your AMEL? SM, Santorin?) or to the AC neutral, don't install it. Find another one, isolated.

Olivier.




On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 11:06 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I'm not so sure how much of an issue this is.
Olivier advised that on the 55 and the 64 the bonding is connected to the AC ground.
I can only see it being an issue if at a marina the boat is connected to shore power and there is a ground leak...but there should be an ELCB on the marina power post that would trip if that was the case...
A galvanic isolator in line with the ground in the AC feed from the shore power would show if there was a stray current problem ... we should all have one of these
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Hi Olivier,

Is there a leak detector on Kimberlite #376 built in 2002?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 7:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Great explanation. Thank you!!

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All

Capt Richard 

RP Yacht Brokerage

Newport RI 

We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's

Cell 603 767 5330


On Jun 1, 2016, at 06:18, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Enio and everybody concerned with earth/ground/bonding whatever it is called,

 

every SM, Santorin, AMEL 54, 55, 64 owner can easily check that the AC ground/earth circuit and the ground circuit that connects all metal parts together with the rudder zincs (engine body, transmission, pipings, valves, pumps, water-maker, boiler,etc...) are connected together.

For instance, try to measure the resistance between the earth pole of an AC outlet, and the engine body. It will be 0.0 ohm. This is normal. In some boats, you will find 0.0 between the AC earth pole and the galley sink faucet.

The AC cooling pump (model CALPEDA) is obviously connected to 230V earth and to the general ground, the hot water maker too.

There is nothing wrong about that.

Now, some of you sometimes install new equipments, especially inverters, that, internally, make a connection between 24V (12V for the Santorin) negative and the ground (zincs). This should not be. This means the equipment is not made for your boat. Find an inverter that will not connect 24V (12V) negative to the ground.

 

Moreover, with the age or another cause, some equipments become faulty (too much carbon dust bringing power to an electric motor's housing) and can cause electrolytic corrosion (which is different from galvanic corrosion). This is the life of the vessel and the reason why AMEL finally installed leak detectors on the 24V circuits (from approximately 2000 on).

 

How can you detect that you may have a power leak that could damage the metal parts of your boat? By checking frequently the zincs and all metal parts in water (that you can see, propeller, rudder shaft and supports, brass through-hull fittings).

A boat unattended shouldn't be  a problem as long as the batteries are OFF and the shore power cord disconnected from the dock outlet.

 

Checking the boat's potential with a silver/silver chlorure electrode is also a good thing, if you do it frequently.

 

Don't get paranoïd but be careful with any new equipment installed: after wiring, and in use, there should not be any power coming into the ground/zincs.

 

Enio, once  your new charger is installed, check the resistance between the charger's housing and the AC ground. It should be 0.0 ohm. This is for your own protection (human body protection).

If your new charger is also an inverter. Check that there is no power on the charger/inverter's body (check the voltage with AC and DC).

If you find that the charger's body is internally connected to the negative DC (What is the kind of your AMEL? SM, Santorin?) or to the AC neutral, don't install it. Find another one, isolated.

 

Olivier.

 

 

 

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 11:06 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I'm not so sure how much of an issue this is.

Olivier advised that on the 55 and the 64 the bonding is connected to the AC ground.

I can only see it being an issue if at a marina the boat is connected to shore power and there is a ground leak...but there should be an ELCB on the marina power post that would trip if that was the case...

A galvanic isolator in line with the ground in the AC feed from the shore power would show if there was a stray current problem ... we should all have one of these

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

 


svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Eric,

The tester used to be installed below the Amel serial number plate on the companionway.  A light and a toggle switch, protected from accidental activation by a frame, I believe.

#350 from 2002 does not have it.  I've only seen it on the latest SM2K sisterships.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
At anchor, Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat


sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat- wow what a lovely place to be.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 1:50 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Eric,

 

The tester used to be installed below the Amel serial number plate on the companionway.  A light and a toggle switch, protected from accidental activation by a frame, I believe.

 

#350 from 2002 does not have it.  I've only seen it on the latest SM2K sisterships.

 

Cheerio,

 

Peregrinus

At anchor, Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Here is how it looks:
http://nikimat.com/mass_circuit_electrolysis_protection.html
(picture taken from a problem in August 2014)

As a kid I used to spend time in Saint Jean Cap Ferrat, Roquebrune Cap Martin, etc. Villa Leopold is not far!
Did you watch the Formula 1 Grand Prix lat weekend?

Enjoy your wonderful trip!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico




--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 6/1/16, svperegrinus@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2016, 12:49 PM


 









Eric,
The
tester used to be installed below the Amel serial number
plate on the companionway.  A light and a toggle switch,
protected from accidental activation by a frame, I
believe.
#350 from
2002 does not have it.  I've only seen it on the latest
SM2K sisterships.
Cheerio,
PeregrinusAt
anchor, Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat









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Duane Siegfri
 

I understand why Amel wired the SM the way it is, but does anyone know if the new Amels are built to comply to ABYC (requiring a connection between AC and DC grounds)?


Duane
Wanderer, SM477


Walter
 

Good morning Eric,
the fault detector for the 24V DC circuit is a simple device.
There is a two way switch which normally flips into neutral/center. The center is connected to the Amel bonding system. 
The left position is marked + it is connected to the - of the DC circuit, and in this line is a little control lamp.
If you switch to + and the lamp lights, you know that you have a contact (that is: fault) between DC+ and the bonding system.
The right position is marked - it is connected to the + of the DC circuit, with a little control lamp in the line.
If you switch to - and the lamp lights, you know that you have a contact (again: fault) between DC- and the bonding system.

Regards
Walter (Noa, SM2K #436)


sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Walter,

Thank You!

Makes sense.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 12:54 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger

 

 

Good morning Eric,
the fault detector for the 24V DC circuit is a simple device.
There is a two way switch which normally flips into neutral/center. The center is connected to the Amel bonding system. 
The left position is marked + it is connected to the - of the DC circuit, and in this line is a little control lamp.
If you switch to + and the lamp lights, you know that you have a contact (that is: fault) between DC+ and the bonding system.
The right position is marked - it is connected to the + of the DC circuit, with a little control lamp in the line.
If you switch to - and the lamp lights, you know that you have a contact (again: fault) between DC- and the bonding system.

Regards
Walter (Noa, SM2K #436)


rossienio@...
 

Hello Olivier and all. Thank you for your answer. My boat is the Santorin no.122.The new charger is Sterling pro-charge N. This replaces the original TECSUP of AMEL. I do not know if this new charger should have the carcass to the ground connection, or not. And if so where I would connect the ground screw?? Sorry, but I do not remember if and where it was connected the TECSUP.Regards.


Olivier Beaute
 

Hello Enio,

first connect the batteries cables to the charger (12V positive and negative). Then connect the 230V charger's cable (230V LIVE, NEUTRAL and EARTH) to the dedicated breaker at the 230V panel in galley.
Check that the charger works (look at the battery monitor for volts and amps).
While the charger is charging, check that the charger's body is connected to the AC earth (measure the resistance which should be 0.0 ohm). If the resistance is high or infinite, you should connect the charger's body to the AC earth.
Then, check the DC voltage between the batteries negative and the charger's body, then between the batteries positive and the charger's body. Both should be 0 volt. If you find a voltage there, don't install this charger.

Have a good day.


On Friday, June 3, 2016 2:34 PM, "rossienio@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello Olivier and all. Thank you for your answer. My boat is the Santorin no.122.The new charger is Sterling pro-charge N. This replaces the original TECSUP of AMEL. I do not know if this new charger should have the carcass to the ground connection, or not. And if so where I would connect the ground screw?? Sorry, but I do not remember if and where it was connected the TECSUP.Regards.



rossienio@...
 

Thanks Olivier, I' ll do what you tell me. Question : AC earth are (on the Santorin)  the yellow-green wires that are connected on the engine? Those of the bonding system? Regards Enio 


rossienio@...
 

Thanks Olivier of your indication and have a good day. Initially I did not understand, I'm sorry. Now I had to make measurement on my sterling charger and the answer is that it does not go well. The measurement on  negative are very different from zero. I must then purchase an Amel-compliant charger. Can we have a list of Amel-compliant products? Because now I do not know where to start and my boat gives the shock. Greetings. Enio