[Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon,

I just received the Blue Sea AC Multimeter 8247
https://www.bluesea.com/products/8247/AC_Digital_Multi-Function_Meter_with_Alarm

I read the instruction and understand it needs to be connected to the A/C Line 1 and A/C Line 2.

Should I connect of the Blue Sea to the Line 1 and 2 “before” it goes to the (water resistant) box of the 220 Volt panel (in which case they could potentially be exposed to water)

Or should I connect them after it goes to the 220 Volt panel box, in which case how do I have the wire going out of it (without making new holes).
Note I could run longer 16 gage to the BlueSea, but the twisted wire won't be long enough...

Pictures of installation would be nice…

As always, thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

What you want to measure is volts, current, and frequency going to the 220 volt panel, so connections at the 220 volt panel makes sense and is what I did with the CruzPro meter I installed.

I don't think you need to drill holes because I think the holes on the back top of the 220 box will accommodate more wires, but if you do need to drill holes take care of the location.

This device may have a circular sensor (coil) to measure amps. If it does, disconnect the hot wire (brown) between the main breaker on the side of the box and the bus at the top of the box... then route that wire through the circular sensor (coil) then connect it back where it originally was located. The other required connections will be to the 220VAC Load (hot) wire (brown) and the 220VAC return (neutral wire (blue). Those two connections can be made at the bus which has large screw terminals at the top inside of the 220VAC breaker box. Your device may be setup for 24VDC lighting. If so, you'll have two wires for that.

By setting it up like described above, you can monitor your generator output of volts, amps, and frequency. You can also check volts and frequency of shore power before turning on any device. You can measure the amps that you are currently consuming.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 13, 2016 3:06 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good afternoon,

I just received the Blue Sea AC Multimeter 8247
https://www.bluesea.com/products/8247/AC_Digital_Multi-Function_Meter_with_Alarm

I read the instruction and understand it needs to be connected to the A/C Line 1 and A/C Line 2.

Should I connect of the Blue Sea to the Line 1 and 2 “before” it goes to the (water resistant) box of the 220 Volt panel (in which case they could potentially be exposed to water)

Or should I connect them after it goes to the 220 Volt panel box, in which case how do I have the wire going out of it (without making new holes).
Note I could run longer 16 gage to the BlueSea, but the twisted wire won't be long enough...

Pictures of installation would be nice…

As always, thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Alexandre:

I installed my BlueSea Multimeter just like the one you have right next to the 220 VAC circuit breaker panel.  Of course you want to remove all power to that pane before working on it.  I was able to insert the wires right alongside the Amel bundle of wires without drilling any new holes.  The wires are small diameter as I recall and there was adequate space.  Access is gained by removing the 220 panel on the bulkhead.  All the breakers/buss/and wires to them will be exposed. Find the main feed wires to the CB (circuit breaker buss bars and crimped or soldered on ring terminals to attach to L1 & L2  (the blue and brown European feed 220 VAC wires).  I presume that you have the model with the torrid for determining the amperage.  Install it inside the 220VAC gray plastic box on the supply leads as directed in the installation instructions.  The wire bundle supply to the 220 VAC panel is stiff so be careful during your manipulations to not break/crack the plexiglass panel or any of the CBs or buss bars. You should have plenty of wire to reach any reasonable installation location. 

If you have more questions don't hesitate to ask. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona   Amel SM 2000  SN 335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico


amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Alexandre:

Just posted a photo of my BlueSea Installation [posted in a File entitled AC Electric]  The panel depicted is in the lower port side of the cabinet above the galley sink right next to the 220 VAC panel.  Everything that Bill in his detailed reply is correct for the BlueSea installation.  I can't recall if I needed 24 VDC for the installation but if so it is readily available on the floor of the cabinet above the galley sink under a protective panel just to port of the sink.  The cover is removed by a traditional Amel phenolic knob. 
The BlueSea unit has pretty good protection of the connections on the back of the unit but my installation is in a box (Radio Shack) so there is a plastic box on the back of the panel to protect from any potentially exposed high voltage terminals.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM #335


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Bill & Gary,

First of all, thanks to both of you for replying.

Starting with Bill since he replied first.

Bill, thanks for your reply, I know you are short in bandwidth, so I will try to use the least pictures as possible.
I open the 220 Volt Panel and identify the blue and brown wire coming from the shore (or genset) to the 220 volt breaker.
To make them more visible I used red and black arrows on the below picture
http://nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247_7.jpg
I see no problem connecting the 2 wires going to the CT to the Blue and Brown, I will connect them at the “large screw terminal” level, then run 2 wires down around/down below the box to the Blue Sea AC Multimeter
BUT unfortunately, the “circular sensor (coil) to measure amps” is too short to run the same path… The twisted wire of mine only measure 10 inches… and it needs to be at least twice that length.
So I am still considering making a tiny hole to run these twisted wires and patch with silicone (unless I get better option).
I don’t know if they are any specification on how long the twisted wire can be, or how many twist, if extension can be added (twist will be missing for 2 inches), etc
Note: The Blue Sea does not have 24 volt DC lighting.

Gary, thanks for your reply, I always have the hardest time finding files on the Amel Yahoo Forum…
I found: https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/5036225/sn/94820671/name/Water+Maker%3AMultimeter%3AAIS+Power+Control+Box.jpg
not sure if you posted other fines.
I love your attention to detail by adding a (Radio shack) box to protect the CT unit.
But the length of the wire of the the torrid for determining the amperage is not long enough… as I just mention to Bill, unsure if extension can be added or if there is a particular specification to the twisting, length, etc.

I started to illustrate of the installation:
http://nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247.html
Unfortunately I am at a dead stop not having “Fast Fuse” 0.5 Amp 250 Volt…

Thanks again both for your great help.
Have a great evening, sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/13/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 13, 2016, 3:14 PM


 









Alex,
What you want to measure is volts, current, and
frequency going to the 220 volt panel, so connections at the
220 volt panel makes sense and is what I did with the
CruzPro meter I installed.
I don't think you need to drill holes
because I think the holes on the back top of the 220 box
will accommodate more wires, but if you do need to drill
holes take care of the location.
This device may have a circular sensor (coil)
to measure amps. If it does, disconnect the hot wire (brown)
between the main breaker on the side of the box and the bus
at the top of the box... then route that wire through the
circular sensor (coil) then connect it back where it
originally was located. The other required connections will
be to the 220VAC Load (hot) wire (brown) and the 220VAC
return (neutral wire (blue). Those two connections can be
made at the bus which has large screw terminals at the top
inside of the 220VAC breaker box. Your device may be setup
for 24VDC lighting. If so, you'll have two wires for
that.
By setting it up like described above, you can
monitor your generator output of volts, amps, and frequency.
You can also check volts and frequency of shore power before
turning on any device. You can measure the amps that you are
currently consuming.
Bill Rouse

BeBe Amel 53 #387

Sent from my tablet

+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Jun 13, 2016 3:06 PM,
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Good afternoon,



I just received the Blue Sea AC Multimeter 8247

https://www.bluesea.com/products/8247/AC_Digital_Multi-Function_Meter_with_Alarm



I read the instruction and understand it needs to be
connected to the A/C Line 1 and A/C Line 2.



Should I connect of the Blue Sea to the Line 1 and 2
“before” it goes to the (water resistant) box of the 220
Volt panel (in which case they could potentially be exposed
to water)



Or should I connect them after it goes to the 220 Volt panel
box, in which case how do I have the wire going out of it
(without making new holes).

Note I could run longer 16 gage to the BlueSea, but the
twisted wire won't be long enough...



Pictures of installation would be nice…



As always, thanks in advance.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

I am not an electrician.

I am fairly sure that extending the twisted wire with something close in size will not be a problem because many installations will be longer and the manufacturer only provided 10".

You need to place that brown wire through the coil anywhere before the large bus screw at the top of the box. The brown wire is the one that you traced with a black line. The brown wire is the hot wire in the 220-240VAC EU type wiring. The blue line is the return or neutral line. Actually, I believe the sensor will work with either the hot or the neutral, but not both. When you connect to US type 220VAC the amps should still record correctly because it is alternating current.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 13, 2016 6:45 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good afternoon Bill & Gary,

First of all, thanks to both of you for replying.

Starting with Bill since he replied first.

Bill, thanks for your reply, I know you are short in bandwidth, so I will try to use the least pictures as possible.
I open the 220 Volt Panel and identify the blue and brown wire coming from the shore (or genset) to the 220 volt breaker.
To make them more visible I used red and black arrows on the below picture
http://nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247_7.jpg
I see no problem connecting the 2 wires going to the CT to the Blue and Brown, I will connect them at the “large screw terminal” level, then run 2 wires down around/down below the box to the Blue Sea AC Multimeter
BUT unfortunately, the “circular sensor (coil) to measure amps” is too short to run the same path… The twisted wire of mine only measure 10 inches… and it needs to be at least twice that length.
So I am still considering making a tiny hole to run these twisted wires and patch with silicone (unless I get better option).
I don’t know if they are any specification on how long the twisted wire can be, or how many twist, if extension can be added (twist will be missing for 2 inches), etc
Note: The Blue Sea does not have 24 volt DC lighting.

Gary, thanks for your reply, I always have the hardest time finding files on the Amel Yahoo Forum…
I found: https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/5036225/sn/94820671/name/Water+Maker%3AMultimeter%3AAIS+Power+Control+Box.jpg
not sure if you posted other fines.
I love your attention to detail by adding a (Radio shack) box to protect the CT unit.
But the length of the wire of the the torrid for determining the amperage is not long enough… as I just mention to Bill, unsure if extension can be added or if there is a particular specification to the twisting, length, etc.

I started to illustrate of the installation:
http://nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247.html
Unfortunately I am at a dead stop not having “Fast Fuse” 0.5 Amp 250 Volt…

Thanks again both for your great help.
Have a great evening, sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/13/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 13, 2016, 3:14 PM




 









Alex,
What you want to measure is volts, current, and
frequency going to the 220 volt panel, so connections at the
220 volt panel makes sense and is what I did with the
CruzPro meter I installed.
I don't think you need to drill holes
because I think the holes on the back top of the 220 box
will accommodate more wires, but if you do need to drill
holes take care of the location.
This device may have a circular sensor (coil)
to measure amps. If it does, disconnect the hot wire (brown)
between the main breaker on the side of the box and the bus
at the top of the box... then route that wire through the
circular sensor (coil) then connect it back where it
originally was located. The other required connections will
be to the 220VAC Load (hot) wire (brown) and the 220VAC
return (neutral wire (blue). Those two connections can be
made at the bus which has large screw terminals at the top
inside of the 220VAC breaker box. Your device may be setup
for 24VDC lighting. If so, you'll have two wires for
that.
By setting it up like described above, you can
monitor your generator output of volts, amps, and frequency.
You can also check volts and frequency of shore power before
turning on any device. You can measure the amps that you are
currently consuming.
Bill Rouse

BeBe Amel 53 #387

Sent from my tablet

+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Jun 13, 2016 3:06 PM,
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Good afternoon,



I just received the Blue Sea AC Multimeter 8247

https://www.bluesea.com/products/8247/AC_Digital_Multi-Function_Meter_with_Alarm



I read the instruction and understand it needs to be
connected to the A/C Line 1 and A/C Line 2.



Should I connect of the Blue Sea to the Line 1 and 2
“before” it goes to the (water resistant) box of the 220
Volt panel (in which case they could potentially be exposed
to water)



Or should I connect them after it goes to the 220 Volt panel
box, in which case how do I have the wire going out of it
(without making new holes).

Note I could run longer 16 gage to the BlueSea, but the
twisted wire won't be long enough...



Pictures of installation would be nice…



As always, thanks in advance.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico









amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Alexandre, I can confirm that an extension on the ammeter (torrid) wires will not be an issue. Do use a twisted pair of wires to minimize RF noise being broadcast (something already twisted or you can make your own twisted pair). Not terribly critical the number of twists per inch but just roughly match what is already there.  The AC on the line you are measuring induces a small current in the lines going to the meter.  I'm surprised that BlueSea doesn't make a statement about line extension. They are a very responsive company and I would bet a phone call to their tech support would confirm this.  If you find out anything to the contrary, please let us know.

This was one of the best upgrades I made and we usually monitor watts to assure we aren't overloading anything. The first one I bought lasted 6 mo and the display failed. They replaced no questions asked.

All the best, 
Gary Silver
s/v Liahona


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thanks to both of you Gary & Bill,

To be on the safe side, I will call BlueSea to confirm.
Then will look for the appropriate fuse (which might need to wait until I rent a car).

Will post pictures of the whole installation to help others.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/13/16, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 13, 2016, 8:26 PM


 









Hi Alexandre, I can confirm that an extension on
the ammeter (torrid) wires will not be an issue. Do use a
twisted pair of wires to minimize RF noise being broadcast
(something already twisted or you can make your own twisted
pair). Not terribly critical the number of twists per inch
but just roughly match what is already there.  The AC on
the line you are measuring induces a small current in the
lines going to the meter.  I'm surprised that BlueSea
doesn't make a statement about line extension. They are
a very responsive company and I would bet a phone call to
their tech support would confirm this.  If you find out
anything to the contrary, please let us know.
This was one of the best upgrades I
made and we usually monitor watts to assure we aren't
overloading anything. The first one I bought lasted 6 mo and
the display failed. They replaced no questions
asked.
All the
best, Gary Silvers/v Liahona









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Mark Erdos
 

Alexandre,

 

I will try to send you pictures within the next day, or so. (waiting for a new camera to arrive from Amazon)

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation

 

 

Good afternoon,

I just received the Blue Sea AC Multimeter 8247
https://www.bluesea.com/products/8247/AC_Digital_Multi-Function_Meter_with_Alarm

I read the instruction and understand it needs to be connected to the A/C Line 1 and A/C Line 2.

Should I connect of the Blue Sea to the Line 1 and 2 “before” it goes to the (water resistant) box of the 220 Volt panel (in which case they could potentially be exposed to water)

Or should I connect them after it goes to the 220 Volt panel box, in which case how do I have the wire going out of it (without making new holes).
Note I could run longer 16 gage to the BlueSea, but the twisted wire won't be long enough...

Pictures of installation would be nice…

As always, thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Alexandre:

I downloaded and re-viewed the installation instructions for this multimeter.  It does say that the wattmeter sensor wires (twisted pair) can be extended up to 25 feet!  

The polarity of the wires isn't an issue for the amperage reading but is for the watt reading.  It says that if you install it and the amps reads ok but the watts doesn't then reverse the polarity of the wires on the back of the multimeter. It also confirmed that the twisted pair (as I suspected) is used to limit RF (radio frequency) electric noise that can interfere with other systems. 

Good luck and be careful with the deadly voltages/currents on the 220 VAC system. 

Gary S. Silver
SM #335


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Gary,

Thank for checking on that.

Since you don’t write for the invoice on the check.
All I know is what I wrote on the invoice.

Thanks for your reply and research Gary,
I just look at the instruction I received and didn’t see any reference to extension. So thanks so much for downloading and researching it.

I remember reading about inverting the cable 4 & 5 if the Watt don’t show.

So, I should try to get/make a twisted wire as closed as the current size. if I happened to go larger, could be an issue?

Long day here, change oil, oil filter, both fuel filter and impeller on the Engine, then cleaning… one thing for sure, I couldn’t make a living doing oil change!

Once I receive the 250 V 1.0 amp fuse, I will proceed to the installation and be careful! When I was 8 in the Alp, I touch a 220 volt connection and I still remember it…

Thanks again for all your help! Being a visual person, Little by little, I hope to be able to illustrate all you wrote!
Also would love meeting you and have a tour of your SM2K, looking at the pictures of the Blue Sea device, looking at the other buttons, I can see the attention to detail.

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 6/14/16, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2016, 11:09 AM


 









Alexandre:
I
downloaded and re-viewed the installation instructions for
this multimeter.  It does say that the wattmeter sensor
wires (twisted pair) can be extended up to 25 feet!
 
The polarity of the
wires isn't an issue for the amperage reading but is for
the watt reading.  It says that if you install it and the
amps reads ok but the watts doesn't then reverse the
polarity of the wires on the back of the multimeter. It also
confirmed that the twisted pair (as I suspected) is used to
limit RF (radio frequency) electric noise that can interfere
with other systems. 
Good luck and be careful with the
deadly voltages/currents on the 220 VAC
system. 
Gary S.
SilverSM #335









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