[Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?


Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Kent,

I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Kent
do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?
The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.
Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.
regards
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

Hmmm, thanks Bill.  Yes, I disconnected each battery from the others for testing, and discharged the "surface charge" with a 12v light before testing.

I guess I should read about the discharge characteristics of the batteries, but doesn't it seem to you that the 400Ah bank should not be discharging to 24V after 10-12 hours of discharging at ~4A?  When I first installed them, the lasted almost 24 hours at the same discharge rate.

Kent


On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:46 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

I would take Hans Peter up on his odfer.

But, one question are you measuring the 24 Volts with anything on like refrigeration?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 12:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hmmm, thanks Bill.  Yes, I disconnected each battery from the others for testing, and discharged the "surface charge" with a 12v light before testing.

I guess I should read about the discharge characteristics of the batteries, but doesn't it seem to you that the 400Ah bank should not be discharging to 24V after 10-12 hours of discharging at ~4A?  When I first installed them, the lasted almost 24 hours at the same discharge rate.

Kent


On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:46 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




hanspeter baettig
 

to check the right way the batteries; each batterie has to be disconnect from the bus. Then wait at least 8 hours to check each batterie with a professional Bat Tester which print you the real status of the individual batterie status. Also a hint. Clean the connection on the shunt. The Shunt is connected in the negative big bat cabel. Go for google to understand what a shunt is for. To find out where your shunt is, look in your Amel Technical Manuals.
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:46 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Craig Briggs
 

Hi Kent,
Nigel Calder suggests adding redundant cables between the batteries when you're ganging multiples.  That is, even though one cable from each post is all you need, if you add a second to cross connect to other adjacent batteries, he asserts this will eliminate the issue you're having of some batteries getting a higher charge than others.
Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris


karkauai
 

Thank you Hanspeter,
My email is karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com
The 8 100Ah series 27 lead acid batteries are set up as 4 pairs in series.  Each of these pairs is connected in parallel to two posts at the port side of the battery compartment.  The positive pole of each pair to the positive post, and the negative pole of each pair to the negative post (i.e. in parallel).  I have looked at this twice to confirm that I didn't connect one pair wrong.  A large cable goes from each post to the double pole switch on the foreward end of the battery compartment (marked "Service").
When I charge tonight, I will let it run longer than normal until I am only charging at about 1 Amp and see what the voltage is.  That's when you say it should be at 27.2-27.3V, correct?  In the interim I will look at the charging characteristics of my charger, and the discharge characteristics of the batteries.  I am sailing tomorrow, when I get to Curacao and get internet access again, I will let you know what I found.
Thanks again
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:02 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent
do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?
The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.
Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.
regards
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

Yes, Bill, with two refrigerators on, battery monitor showing 3-4 Amp discharge the voltage reading 24.03V.  I just turned all 24 V equipment off and after a 5 minute wait the voltage on the battery monitor was still reading 24.03V.  My monitor is only showing 30Ah discharge since charging this morning (7 hours ago I shut the generator off when the battery monitor showed 7 Amp input).  I think they should have been 90% charged then???
Kent


On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:30 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I would take Hans Peter up on his odfer.

But, one question are you measuring the 24 Volts with anything on like refrigeration?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 12:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hmmm, thanks Bill.  Yes, I disconnected each battery from the others for testing, and discharged the "surface charge" with a 12v light before testing.

I guess I should read about the discharge characteristics of the batteries, but doesn't it seem to you that the 400Ah bank should not be discharging to 24V after 10-12 hours of discharging at ~4A?  When I first installed them, the lasted almost 24 hours at the same discharge rate.

Kent


On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:46 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

I have not checked the shunt, Hanspeter, maybe my battery monitor is giving me bad readings?  When I check with my multimeter, the voltage and amperage readings are the same as what the battery monitor shows, whether charging or discharging.
I will check the shunt connections next.  Difficult job since all cables have to be removed to get to it!
Kent

On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:36 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

to check the right way the batteries; each batterie has to be disconnect from the bus. Then wait at least 8 hours to check each batterie with a professional Bat Tester which print you the real status of the individual batterie status. Also a hint. Clean the connection on the shunt. The Shunt is connected in the negative big bat cabel. Go for google to understand what a shunt is for. To find out where your shunt is, look in your Amel Technical Manuals.
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:46 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

Interesting, thanks Craig. So just connect each pair to the other pairs without going through the main positive and negative poles that go to the battery switch?
That will take some doing to get the cables I need, but it sounds good.  I just don't understand why I was getting close to 24 hrs per charge (~100Ah) when the batteries were new a month ago, and not changing anything I'm not even getting 10 hours out of each charge...and its getting worse every day.
Electricity is really one of my weakest knowledge bases.  Right up there with Diesel engines.  And electronics....what am I doing here???
Kent



On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:47 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

Nigel Calder suggests adding redundant cables between the batteries when you're ganging multiples.  That is, even though one cable from each post is all you need, if you add a second to cross connect to other adjacent batteries, he asserts this will eliminate the issue you're having of some batteries getting a higher charge than others.
Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris


hanspeter baettig
 

Ok Kent thanks for your reply
I send you some of my recomondation and then we post it in the amel forum. Even if your battery monitor shows in the evening after you used some amps and the voltages goes under 24 V lets say 23.5 V thats not a problem; because your batteries are decharching; thats ok. If you switch of some consumer amps and the voltage goes up to 24.2 or 24.6 V then your batteries are ok
Hanspeter
Tamango 2,
Athen, Greek

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 21:51 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Thank you Hanspeter,
My email is karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com
The 8 100Ah series 27 lead acid batteries are set up as 4 pairs in series.  Each of these pairs is connected in parallel to two posts at the port side of the battery compartment.  The positive pole of each pair to the positive post, and the negative pole of each pair to the negative post (i.e. in parallel).  I have looked at this twice to confirm that I didn't connect one pair wrong.  A large cable goes from each post to the double pole switch on the foreward end of the battery compartment (marked "Service").
When I charge tonight, I will let it run longer than normal until I am only charging at about 1 Amp and see what the voltage is.  That's when you say it should be at 27.2-27.3V, correct?  In the interim I will look at the charging characteristics of my charger, and the discharge characteristics of the batteries.  I am sailing tomorrow, when I get to Curacao and get internet access again, I will let you know what I found.
Thanks again
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:02 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent
do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?
The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.
Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.
regards
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




hanspeter baettig
 

Kent, the battery monitor on your boat is ok, since you have the same messurements on all your points you tested; dont worry. I will send you a email for more probleme solving for your case. And then we will post the results on the Amel Forum, ok?
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM 16
Athene

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 22:16 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I have not checked the shunt, Hanspeter, maybe my battery monitor is giving me bad readings?  When I check with my multimeter, the voltage and amperage readings are the same as what the battery monitor shows, whether charging or discharging.
I will check the shunt connections next.  Difficult job since all cables have to be removed to get to it!
Kent
On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:36 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

to check the right way the batteries; each batterie has to be disconnect from the bus. Then wait at least 8 hours to check each batterie with a professional Bat Tester which print you the real status of the individual batterie status. Also a hint. Clean the connection on the shunt. The Shunt is connected in the negative big bat cabel. Go for google to understand what a shunt is for. To find out where your shunt is, look in your Amel Technical Manuals.
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:46 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

Thanks Hanspeter,
Another issue with the voltage dropping below 24 is that the fridges don't run their compressors in an effort to conserve battery power.  I've been told or read somewhere that discharging below 24v decreases the life of the batteries.
When the voltage is just above 24v with the fridges running, if I turn off the fridges the voltage stays the same.
I found in the charger specs that the bulk charge voltage for my charger is at 28 V, and the float voltage is 26.6v.  That is what my charger is doing, so I think the charger is working properly.  I will get a new hygrometer and check the specific gravity of the cells when at full charge after I get to Curaçao and let you know what I find.
Kent

On Jun 14, 2016, at 7:13 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ok Kent thanks for your reply
I send you some of my recomondation and then we post it in the amel forum. Even if your battery monitor shows in the evening after you used some amps and the voltages goes under 24 V lets say 23.5 V thats not a problem; because your batteries are decharching; thats ok. If you switch of some consumer amps and the voltage goes up to 24.2 or 24.6 V then your batteries are ok
Hanspeter
Tamango 2,
Athen, Greek

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 21:51 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Thank you Hanspeter,
My email is karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com
The 8 100Ah series 27 lead acid batteries are set up as 4 pairs in series.  Each of these pairs is connected in parallel to two posts at the port side of the battery compartment.  The positive pole of each pair to the positive post, and the negative pole of each pair to the negative post (i.e. in parallel).  I have looked at this twice to confirm that I didn't connect one pair wrong.  A large cable goes from each post to the double pole switch on the foreward end of the battery compartment (marked "Service").
When I charge tonight, I will let it run longer than normal until I am only charging at about 1 Amp and see what the voltage is.  That's when you say it should be at 27.2-27.3V, correct?  In the interim I will look at the charging characteristics of my charger, and the discharge characteristics of the batteries.  I am sailing tomorrow, when I get to Curacao and get internet access again, I will let you know what I found.
Thanks again
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:02 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent
do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?
The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.
Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.
regards
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




karkauai
 

Great, Hanspeter, I look forward to your suggestions.
Kent

On Jun 14, 2016, at 8:07 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, the battery monitor on your boat is ok, since you have the same messurements on all your points you tested; dont worry. I will send you a email for more probleme solving for your case. And then we will post the results on the Amel Forum, ok?
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM 16
Athene

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 22:16 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I have not checked the shunt, Hanspeter, maybe my battery monitor is giving me bad readings?  When I check with my multimeter, the voltage and amperage readings are the same as what the battery monitor shows, whether charging or discharging.
I will check the shunt connections next.  Difficult job since all cables have to be removed to get to it!
Kent
On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:36 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

to check the right way the batteries; each batterie has to be disconnect from the bus. Then wait at least 8 hours to check each batterie with a professional Bat Tester which print you the real status of the individual batterie status. Also a hint. Clean the connection on the shunt. The Shunt is connected in the negative big bat cabel. Go for google to understand what a shunt is for. To find out where your shunt is, look in your Amel Technical Manuals.
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:46 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




eric freedman
 

Hi Kent.

We stayed at the Curacao Yacht Club.

Very nice place and Nice people.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:51 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Thank you Hanspeter,

My email is karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com

The 8 100Ah series 27 lead acid batteries are set up as 4 pairs in series.  Each of these pairs is connected in parallel to two posts at the port side of the battery compartment.  The positive pole of each pair to the positive post, and the negative pole of each pair to the negative post (i.e. in parallel).  I have looked at this twice to confirm that I didn't connect one pair wrong.  A large cable goes from each post to the double pole switch on the foreward end of the battery compartment (marked "Service").

When I charge tonight, I will let it run longer than normal until I am only charging at about 1 Amp and see what the voltage is.  That's when you say it should be at 27.2-27.3V, correct?  In the interim I will look at the charging characteristics of my charger, and the discharge characteristics of the batteries.  I am sailing tomorrow, when I get to Curacao and get internet access again, I will let you know what I found.

Thanks again

Kent

SM 243

Kristy

 

On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:02 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent

do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?

The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.

Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.

regards

Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

 

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  

The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

 

I don't have solar or wind yet.

 

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

 

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

 

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

 

Thanks again

Kent

 




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

 

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

 

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

 

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

 

How are your solar panels controlled?

 

Bill Kinney

SM#160 Harmonie

 

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,

 

Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

 

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

 

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

 

Derick

SM2K#400 Brava

 

 

 


karkauai
 

Masha Danki, Eric!
Kent

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:13 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent.

We stayed at the Curacao Yacht Club.

Very nice place and Nice people.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:51 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

 

 

Thank you Hanspeter,

My email is karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com

The 8 100Ah series 27 lead acid batteries are set up as 4 pairs in series.  Each of these pairs is connected in parallel to two posts at the port side of the battery compartment.  The positive pole of each pair to the positive post, and the negative pole of each pair to the negative post (i.e. in parallel).  I have looked at this twice to confirm that I didn't connect one pair wrong.  A large cable goes from each post to the double pole switch on the foreward end of the battery compartment (marked "Service").

When I charge tonight, I will let it run longer than normal until I am only charging at about 1 Amp and see what the voltage is.  That's when you say it should be at 27.2-27.3V, correct?  In the interim I will look at the charging characteristics of my charger, and the discharge characteristics of the batteries.  I am sailing tomorrow, when I get to Curacao and get internet access again, I will let you know what I found.

Thanks again

Kent

SM 243

Kristy

 

On Jun 14, 2016, at 12:02 PM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent

do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?

The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.

Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.

regards

Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

 

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  

The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

 

I don't have solar or wind yet.

 

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

 

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

 

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

 

Thanks again

Kent

 




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

 

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

 

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

 

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

 

How are your solar panels controlled?

 

Bill Kinney

SM#160 Harmonie

 

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,

 

Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

 

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

 

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

 

Derick

SM2K#400 Brava

 

 

 


Alan Leslie
 

It could be that since you probably have the standard automotive regulator in your engine alternator it is slowly killing your batteries.
The standard auto regulator is designed to charge start batteries ...it is not good for deep cycle batteries.
Motoring for long periods will keep the voltage at 28V or more and this will kill deep cycle batteries eventually.
Deep cycle batteries require a 3-stage charge profile, Bulk, Absorption and Float. A proper charger will output max current until the absorption voltage is reached (in our case 29.2V) and then hold that voltage until the current is down to a set minimum (or a fixed time) and then switch to float (in our case 27.2).
All the chargers on our boat - 175A alternator, 600W solar panels with MPPT, 100A Victron, 30A ProMariner are 3-stage regulated and set to the same settings.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


karkauai
 

I doubt that's it Alan.  I haven't motored more than 30 minutes total since I got the batteries.
Kent


On Jun 15, 2016, at 3:26 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It could be that since you probably have the standard automotive regulator in your engine alternator it is slowly killing your batteries.

The standard auto regulator is designed to charge start batteries ...it is not good for deep cycle batteries.
Motoring for long periods will keep the voltage at 28V or more and this will kill deep cycle batteries eventually.
Deep cycle batteries require a 3-stage charge profile, Bulk, Absorption and Float. A proper charger will output max current until the absorption voltage is reached (in our case 29.2V) and then hold that voltage until the current is down to a set minimum (or a fixed time) and then switch to float (in our case 27.2).
All the chargers on our boat - 175A alternator, 600W solar panels with MPPT, 100A Victron, 30A ProMariner are 3-stage regulated and set to the same settings.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437