main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io | [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.

Alexandre Uster von Baar

Good morning,

Please bear with me as electricity is my weak point…

i thought it would be easier to post the questions and pictures.
http://www.nikimat.com/shore_power_plug_questions_1.html

If you could please confirm this is the Original plug at the end of the 220 Volt shore cable.

If you could look at the extension (when dock bow first) and how it needs a smaller extension, my question/concern is that is says 16 AMP on the plug, please look at the pictures and let me know.


If you have time, I put a 2nd page with 4 questions regarding additional plugs I have on the boat:
http://www.nikimat.com/shore_power_plug_questions_2.html

Thanks in advance
Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

my quote of the day: “the more you learn, the less you realize you know”…

Alan Leslie

#28641

Hi Alexandre,

Apart from the 4 pin red plugs, we have the same set of plugs and cables plus a few more for South Pacific connections.

The 16A and 32A plugs are different sizes. The boat system is 16A, the cable that goes from 16A socket to 32A plug is so you can plug into a 32A socket on a dock...some docks eg Taina Marina, Papeete, in some places have only 32A sockets.

The black 2 pin plug connected to the 16A socket, allows you to connect to normal European power outlets, eg in the yard at Nouvile Plaisance in Noumea, where we are now.

The red ones...I don't know what they are for, but they look like they haven't been used in a long while !

Hoep this helps

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437, Noumea

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#28642

Good afternoon Alan,

Thanks very much for your reply.

Just to make sure, even thought it says 16 amp on the plug, it is ok to connect them to a 32 amp connection and obtain up to 32 amp from them?
The plug will take it ???

To me, it would have been more logical to have:
Power cable coming from the boat terminated with a 32 Amp (and not 16)
Then the extension has 32 Amp on each side.
Then have an adapter that would reduce to a smaller 16 Amp shore plug.

So you would actually connect your vessel (in a ship yard) to the Schuko (black 2 pin) and be able to run freezer, fridge, etc.?  up to 16 amp?  Or would you limit yourself to much less?  The cable seem so small…

Enjoy Noumea!  Thanks for your reply, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 8/17/16, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 3:09 PM


  

 







       Hi Alexandre,
 Apart from the 4 pin red plugs, we
 have the same set of plugs and cables plus a few more for
 South Pacific connections.
 The 16A and 32A plugs are different
 sizes. The boat system is 16A, the cable that goes from 16A
 socket to 32A plug is so you can plug into a 32A socket on a
 dock...some docks eg Taina Marina, Papeete, in some places
 have only 32A sockets.
 The black 2 pin plug connected to
 the 16A socket, allows you to connect to normal European
 power outlets, eg in the yard at Nouvile Plaisance in
 Noumea, where we are now.
 The red ones...I don't know what
 they are for, but they look like they haven't been used
 in a long while !
 Hoep
 this helps
 CheersAlanElyse
 SM437, Noumea











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Alan Leslie

#28644

Bonjour Alexandre,

The 16 / 32A adaptor is just for convenience (and strictly not legal in most places) to allow you to connect to a 32A socket if a 16A is not available.

You should not draw more than 16A from this outlet.

You are right that would be more logical, but then the boat wiring would also need to be much bigger to take 32A draw.

As it is the boat system is designed for 16A shore power and you should not exceed that.

Everything is a compromise...you always need to be aware of how much current you are drawing so the capacity of the wiring, breakers and shiore connections are not exceeded.

The Schuko plug is variously 10, 12, 16A depending on who made it and in which country, but with such a short length of cable it shouldn't be a problem up to 16A.

The frig and freezer run from the 24VDC battery supply, so if that is all you are running, you need the small battery charger running to keep the batteries charged and that is only about 4A on the 220V circuit when it is putting out max current to the batteries, which it won't if the batteries are fully charged...so, no problem.

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437 Noumea

Good afternoon Alan,

Thanks very much for your reply.

Just to make sure, even thought it says 16 amp on the plug, it is ok to connect them to a 32 amp connection and obtain up to 32 amp from them?
The plug will take it ???

To me, it would have been more logical to have:
Power cable coming from the boat terminated with a 32 Amp (and not 16)
Then the extension has 32 Amp on each side.
Then have an adapter that would reduce to a smaller 16 Amp shore plug.

So you would actually connect your vessel (in a ship yard) to the Schuko (black 2 pin) and be able to run freezer, fridge, etc.? up to 16 amp? Or would you limit yourself to much less? The cable seem so small…

Enjoy Noumea! Thanks for your reply, Alexandre

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#28646

Good afternoon Alan,

Very interesting…

I had no clue the boat limit was 16 amp…
I thought it was 32 amp (because of the 32 amp breaker on the 220 volt panel in the galley).
Why putting a 32 amp if the system only can take 16 ???  (asking myself)

3 years ago, I run all 3 air condition, battery charger and used outlets for my computer, no clue how many amp I draw…

Good thing I installed the Blue Sea AC meter…  which will allow me to be careful.

Ok good to know the short cable wouldn’t be a problem for 16 Amp.

Well thanks again for your information which kind of made me thinking…

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 8/17/16, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 4:55 PM


  









       Bonjour Alexandre,
 The 16 / 32A adaptor is just for
 convenience (and strictly not legal in most places) to allow
 you to connect to a 32A socket if a 16A is not
 available.You should not draw more than 16A from
 this outlet.
 You are
 right that would be more logical, but then the boat wiring
 would also need to be much bigger to take 32A
 draw.
 As it is the
 boat system is designed for 16A shore power and you should
 not exceed that.
 Everything is a compromise...you
 always need to be aware of how much current you are drawing
 so the capacity of the wiring, breakers and shiore
 connections are not exceeded.
 The Schuko plug is variously 10, 12,
 16A depending on who made it and in which country, but with
 such a short length of cable it shouldn't be a problem
 up to 16A.
 The frig
 and freezer run from the 24VDC battery supply, so if that is
 all you are running, you need the small battery charger
 running to keep the batteries charged and that is only about
 4A on the 220V circuit when it is putting out max current to
 the batteries, which it won't if the batteries are fully
 charged...so, no problem.

 CheersAlanElyse
 SM437 Noumea


 Good afternoon
 Alan, 

 Thanks very much for your
 reply. 

 Just to make sure, even
 thought it says 16 amp on the plug, it is ok to connect them
 to a 32 amp connection and obtain up to 32 amp from
 them? 
 The plug will
 take it ??? 

 To me, it would
 have been more logical to have: 
 Power cable coming from the boat terminated with a
 32 Amp (and not 16)
 Then the extension has 32 Amp on each
 side. 
 Then have an
 adapter that would reduce to a smaller 16 Amp shore
 plug. 


 So you would actually connect
 your vessel (in a ship yard) to the Schuko (black 2 pin) and
 be able to run freezer, fridge, etc.? up to 16 amp? Or would
 you limit yourself to much less? The cable seem so
 small… 


 Enjoy Noumea! Thanks for your
 reply, Alexandre












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kimberlite@...

#28647

kimberlite@...

#28648

Alan Leslie

#28649

That's true but if you try to draw 30A from a dock outlet that is only rated to 16A, you will trip the breaker on the dock..If you run too many 220V items at the same time you can easily exceed 16A.....I know, I've done it !

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437 Noumea

Alan Leslie

#28650

Hi Alexandre,

Maybe I have confused the issue a bit.....

The 16A limit is for the shorepower because of the plug...and the size of the cable you have on your extension lead.
The gen set can deliver around 30A, that's why the breaker is 32A...

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437 Noumea

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#28660

Good morning Eric, Alan,

I am not concerned about tripping a 16 Amp dock breaker.

I am concerned about my shore power cable being too small to pull for example 25 Amp out of a 32 Amp dock outlet.

Example, in 50 hertz countries if I use my Scuba compressor and my washing machine, plus some outlet, I will draw 25 Amps (5600 Watt) (this is what I measured with the Blue Sea last week while I was using my genset).

So if the shore power cable is only able to sustain 16 Amp, I am 50% above and don’t want to have an overheating and possibly get it on fire.

Going through your reply Alan, so if I understand correctly, you say the “shore power cable” coming from the boat is ok for 32 Amp.  But the small extension I have is not, so I just need to replace that (with a thicker cable)?

Thanks for all of your reply.
Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 8/17/16, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 6:25 PM


  








 
       That's true but if you try to draw 30A from a
 dock outlet that is only rated to 16A, you will trip the
 breaker on the dock..If you run too many 220V items at the
 same time you can easily exceed 16A.....I know, I've
 done it !
 CheersAlanElyse
 SM437 Noumea





   



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Olivier Beaute

#28663

Hello Alexander,

the original shore power cable installed in your SM is a 3G2.5 HO7. This is a high quality cable (HO7), with 3 2.5sqmm wires, able to carry 16 amps, not more. If you connect it to a 32A, even a 63A dock outlet, and turn on ALL of your 230V equipments, it will get fire in a few seconds, without tripping the dock's breaker.

This cable can only carry 16 amps, and if you have no other option than connecting to a 32A or 63A dock outlet, you MUST monitor your draw, and wash your clothes AFTER the scuba tanks are full.

Alan is right, the 32A breaker in the galley is made to hold the higher genset amperage.

When you connect to shore power, the cable must be as short as possible and uncoiled. Don't use unnecessary extensions. I've seen boats with 40 metres shore power cable nicely coiled in the lazarette, as the dock outlet was 3 metres from stern. This is a very safe way to get fire in your boat. If you have no choice, first uncoil your cable and spread it on the dock.

Concerning the originally mounted 110V/230V, 6kW step-up transformer (cubic grey box in engine room, optionnal) those who have it probably noticed that the 110V shore cable was bigger (3G4), able to carry 25A. So don't take more than 25A out of it (which means 15A on the 220V side of this transformer).

This transformer is NOT equipped with a galvanic isolator, meaning the ground is common to 110V input and 220V output. The 110V shore cable MUST be connected to the dock's ground/earth.

If you want to be protected from stray currents coming from your neighbors through the ground/earth wire, you need to install a galvanic isolator on the 110V input line.

Now some new products include a galvanic isolator, that's why they're called "isolation transformers".

Be careful with 220V but keep in mind that 12V or 24V could be even more dangerous (fire).

OLIVIER

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:02 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

Good morning Eric, Alan,

I am not concerned about tripping a 16 Amp dock breaker.

I am concerned about my shore power cable being too small to pull for example 25 Amp out of a 32 Amp dock outlet.

Example, in 50 hertz countries if I use my Scuba compressor and my washing machine, plus some outlet, I will draw 25 Amps (5600 Watt) (this is what I measured with the Blue Sea last week while I was using my genset).

So if the shore power cable is only able to sustain 16 Amp, I am 50% above and don’t want to have an overheating and possibly get it on fire.

Going through your reply Alan, so if I understand correctly, you say the “shore power cable” coming from the boat is ok for 32 Amp. But the small extension I have is not, so I just need to replace that (with a thicker cable)?

Thanks for all of your reply.
Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 8/17/16, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 6:25 PM

That's true but if you try to draw 30A from a
dock outlet that is only rated to 16A, you will trip the
breaker on the dock..If you run too many 220V items at the
same time you can easily exceed 16A.....I know, I've
done it !
CheersAlanElyse
SM437 Noumea

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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>

#28664

Alex,

I am not sure that the shore power is only rated for 230VAC 50htz 16 amps. I think it is designed for 32 amps, but maybe less with 220VAC 60htz and/or use of a transformer.

I am not an electrician, but I believe that the maximum amperage is also determined by some other things including any transformer in-line and whether you are using USA style 220VAC 60htz with two 110VAC 60htz hot wires.

To answer this question with clarity I think you will need a certified marine electrician. It might be worth paying one for a few hours to check the AC systems on your boat. But, if you hire one make sure he is very familiar with marine 230VAC 50htz. Where you are may make this difficult.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

Show quoted text

On Aug 18, 2016 6:02 AM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good morning Eric, Alan,

I am not concerned about tripping a 16 Amp dock breaker.

I am concerned about my shore power cable being too small to pull for example 25 Amp out of a 32 Amp dock outlet.

Example, in 50 hertz countries if I use my Scuba compressor and my washing machine, plus some outlet, I will draw 25 Amps (5600 Watt) (this is what I measured with the Blue Sea last week while I was using my genset).

So if the shore power cable is only able to sustain 16 Amp, I am 50% above and don’t want to have an overheating and possibly get it on fire.

Going through your reply Alan, so if I understand correctly, you say the “shore power cable” coming from the boat is ok for 32 Amp. But the small extension I have is not, so I just need to replace that (with a thicker cable)?

Thanks for all of your reply.
Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 8/17/16, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 6:25 PM

That's true but if you try to draw 30A from a
dock outlet that is only rated to 16A, you will trip the
breaker on the dock..If you run too many 220V items at the
same time you can easily exceed 16A.....I know, I've
done it !
CheersAlanElyse
SM437 Noumea

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Andrew & Kate Lamb

#28666

Hi

That is confusing as our boat (number 472) came with 32amp rated shore connectors and (I think ) 32 amp rated cable. Now I need to check the cable again.

Andrew

Ronpische

SM 472

Canet–en-Roussillon

Show quoted text

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: 18 August 2016 14:38
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shore power plug questions.