[Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Pat,
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Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. Pat SM123 #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417 -- #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp #yiv9703822417hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp #yiv9703822417ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad p { margin:0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc #yiv9703822417hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc .yiv9703822417ad { 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Patrick McAneny
Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words.
Hope this helps,
Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat,
Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. Pat SM123 #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417 -- #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp #yiv9703822417hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp #yiv9703822417ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad p { margin:0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc #yiv9703822417hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc .yiv9703822417ad { 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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Pat,
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The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. Pat SM123 #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417 -- #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp #yiv9703822417hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp #yiv9703822417ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad p { margin:0;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-mkp .yiv9703822417ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc #yiv9703822417hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv9703822417 #yiv9703822417ygrp-sponsor #yiv9703822417ygrp-lc .yiv9703822417ad { 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Patrick McAneny
Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep.
Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat,
The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Patrick McAneny
Alexandre, Sorry I missed the second part of your question. I would check it at the strap in the bilge , that way it also confirms that you have continuity between the strap and the quadrant connection . That's actually what its all about , confirming contact between the ground strap in the bilge and the zincs on your rudder.
Pat -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat,
The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Thanks for all the information Pat, including the silver cathode.
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I heard Kent mentioning this, but was not sure of the use. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 11:41 AM  Alexandre, Sorry I missed the second part of your question. I would check it at the strap in the bilge , that way it also confirms that you have continuity between the strap and the quadrant connection . That's actually what its all about , confirming contact between the ground strap in the bilge and the zincs on your rudder. Pat -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Hi Pat, So what is the bilge ground strap connected to? I suppose the iron keel? Â Should we be looking at the continuity between the keel and the zincs? Mike Ondra Aletes SM#240 Rock Hall, MD Â From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:41 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity   Alexandre, Sorry I missed the second part of your question. I would check it at the strap in the bilge , that way it also confirms that you have continuity between the strap and the quadrant connection . That's actually what its all about , confirming contact between the ground strap in the bilge and the zincs on your rudder. Pat -----Original Message-----  Good morning Pat,
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sailormon <kimberlite@...>
The silver electrode is available from boatzincs.com it is about $120- US. Â Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376 Â Â From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:34 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity   Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep. Pat SM123 -----Original Message-----  Good morning Pat, |
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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Thank you Erik,
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I think I found it: http://www.boatzincs.com/corrosion-reference-electrode-specs.html Do you use it yourself? Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 12:44 PM  The silver electrode is available from boatzincs.com it is about $120- US.  Fair WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376   From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:34 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity   Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep.Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat, The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Thank you Erik,
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I think I found it: http://www.boatzincs.com/corrosion-reference-electrode-specs.html Do you use it yourself? Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 12:44 PM  The silver electrode is available from boatzincs.com it is about $120- US.  Fair WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376   From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:34 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity   Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep.Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat, The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Patrick McAneny
Mike, The strap is connected to the connection at the quadrant , which in turn is connected to the zincs, that's my understanding.
Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 1:32 pm Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Hi Pat,
So what is the bilge ground strap connected to? I suppose the iron keel? Â Should we be looking at the continuity between the keel and the zincs?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM#240
Rock Hall, MD
Â
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:41 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Â
Â
Alexandre, Sorry I missed the second part of your question. I would check it at the strap in the bilge , that way it also confirms that you have continuity between the strap and the quadrant connection . That's actually what its all about , confirming contact between the ground strap in the bilge and the zincs on your rudder.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Â
Good morning Pat,
The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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That's the one I have, Alex. Â Be sure to rinse well in fresh water and allow to dry before storing it. Â A booklet explaining its use comes with it. On Aug 30, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Alex, You check continuity when on the hard. Â The reference electrode is used when the boat is in the water. Â I believe that Amel SMs should be at (-)900-1050 millivolts. On Aug 30, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Good morning Pat, |
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On Aug 30, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Mike, The strap is connected to the connection at the quadrant , which in turn is connected to the zincs, that's my understanding.
Pat SM123
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 1:32 pm Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity
Â
Hi Pat,
So what is the bilge ground strap connected to? I suppose the iron keel? Â Should we be looking at the continuity between the keel and the zincs?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM#240
Rock Hall, MD
Â
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:41 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Â
Â
Alexandre, Sorry I missed the second part of your question. I would check it at the strap in the bilge , that way it also confirms that you have continuity between the strap and the quadrant connection . That's actually what its all about , confirming contact between the ground strap in the bilge and the zincs on your rudder.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Â
Good morning Pat,
The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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It's connected to the keel via a bolt at the bottom of the sump. On Aug 30, 2016, at 1:36 PM, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hi Pat, So what is the bilge ground strap connected to? I suppose the iron keel?  Should we be looking at the continuity between the keel and the zincs? Mike Ondra Aletes SM#240 Rock Hall, MD  From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]   Alexandre, Sorry I missed the second part of your question. I would check it at the strap in the bilge , that way it also confirms that you have continuity between the strap and the quadrant connection . That's actually what its all about , confirming contact between the ground strap in the bilge and the zincs on your rudder. Pat -----Original Message-----  Good morning Pat,
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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good afternoon Kent,
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Glad you are joining this discussion, I just ordered it (like I didn’t had enough part or tools onboard…) I will definitely make sure to rinse it, etc. So with this silver electrode I will be able to check in the water. Does it matter they are vessel around? Thanks again! Hope the eye is doing better… Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 3:43 PM  That's the one I have, Alex.  Be sure to rinse well in fresh water and allow to dry before storing it.  A booklet explaining its use comes with it.Kent Kent Robertsonkarkauai@... voice/text On Aug 30, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:  Thank you Erik, I think I found it: http://www.boatzincs.com/corrosion-reference-electrode-specs.html Do you use it yourself? Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 12:44 PM  The silver electrode is available from boatzincs.com it is about $120- US.  Fair WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376   From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:34 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity   Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep.Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat, The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Patrick McAneny
Kent, Yes, my electrician said he would like to see at least 900 or higher . What do you get when you have checked ? I think I will buy the one Eric sent link to, could save problems down the road. I told my electrician about your nightmare.
Pat -----Original Message----- From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Alex,
You check continuity when on the hard. Â The reference electrode is used when the boat is in the water. Â I believe that Amel SMs should be at (-)900-1050 millivolts.
On Aug 30, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Â
Good morning Pat,
The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Yes, it can matter, Alex. If you are at the dock and know that your zincs are intact, and you find a higher potential (less negative voltage) for example -750mv, I would first disconnect shore power and test again. If it is then -900 to -1050mv you are getting a voltage from the dock or another nearby boat. If it still reads -750mv, you may have a DC current leak on your boat. Turn everything off, including all breakers and your main battery switches. If it then tests good, turn the breakers on one at a time to see which one is causing the problem. If, with all 24v breakers off, it still reads -750mv, you could have a wiring issue on the negative side. That's a real PITA to chase down. I found a couple of miswirings, but could never correct it completely (i.e. I still had continuity between the bonding system and battery negative. The galvanic/electrolytic corrosion expert I hired said that he didn't believe I had a current leak, and if I did it might be impossible to find. He thought I was just under-zinc'd. I found some 7 inch rudder zincs made by Camp (better quality than Martyr and some other brands). I put them on the rudder and have been right at -950mv since and the zincs seem to be lasting for a lot longer. They are barely eroded after 4 months. I still hang a "guppy" zinc (looks like a fish) over the side if I'm going to be somewhere for more than a few days. This brings my hull potential up to -990mv and affords a little more protection.
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I check hull potential every time I drop anchor or tie up to a dock, or at least once a month. Is that clear? If not I'll try something else. Kent "Rusty" "Patch" SM 243 Kristy Kent Robertson karkauai@... 828-234-6819 voice/text On Aug 30, 2016, at 4:55 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Good afternoon Kent, Glad you are joining this discussion, I just ordered it (like I didn’t had enough part or tools onboard…) I will definitely make sure to rinse it, etc. So with this silver electrode I will be able to check in the water. Does it matter they are vessel around? Thanks again! Hope the eye is doing better… Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 3:43 PM That's the one I have, Alex. Be sure to rinse well in fresh water and allow to dry before storing it. A booklet explaining its use comes with it.Kent Kent Robertsonkarkauai@... voice/text On Aug 30, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Thank you Erik, I think I found it: http://www.boatzincs.com/corrosion-reference-electrode-specs.html Do you use it yourself? Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 12:44 PM The silver electrode is available from boatzincs.com it is about $120- US. Fair WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376 From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:34 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep.Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat, The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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Alexandre Uster von Baar
Hello Kent,
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I just changed my zinc (3 weeks ago), I scuba dove yesterday, they (thankfully) look good. But crazy how the propeller (cleaned 2 weeks ago) was already starting to get dirty here… Anyway, I will do as your describe. Very logical way to find a leak (if there is one). All clear. I heard of not over zinc either, but keep the idea of the fish looking zinc. One of my neighbors on a steel sailboat has one. Thanks so much for the detail explanation… Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 4:18 PM  Yes, it can matter, Alex.  If you are at the dock and know that your zincs are intact, and you find a higher potential (less negative voltage) for example -750mv, I would first disconnect shore power and test again.  If it is then -900 to -1050mv you are getting a voltage from the dock or another nearby boat.  If it still reads -750mv, you may have a DC current leak on your boat.  Turn everything off, including all breakers and your main battery switches.  If it then tests good, turn the breakers on one at a time to see which one is causing the problem.  If, with all 24v breakers off, it still reads -750mv, you could have a wiring issue on the negative side.  That's a real PITA to chase down.  I found a couple of miswirings, but could never correct it completely (i.e. I still had continuity between the bonding system and battery negative.  The galvanic/electrolytic corrosion expert I hired said that he didn't believe I had a current leak, and if I did it might be impossible to find.  He thought I was just under-zinc'd.  I found some 7 inch rudder zincs made by Camp (better quality than Martyr and some other brands).  I put them on the rudder and have been right at -950mv since and the zincs seem to be lasting for a lot longer.  They are barely eroded after 4 months.  I still hang a "guppy" zinc (looks like a fish) over the side if I'm going to be somewhere for more than a few days.  This brings my hull potential up to -990mv and affords a little more protection.I check hull potential every time I drop anchor or tie up to a dock, or at least once a month. Is that clear?  If not I'll try something else.Kent "Rusty" "Patch"SM 243Kristy Kent Robertsonkarkauai@... voice/text On Aug 30, 2016, at 4:55 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:  Good afternoon Kent, Glad you are joining this discussion, I just ordered it (like I didn’t had enough part or tools onboard…) I will definitely make sure to rinse it, etc. So with this silver electrode I will be able to check in the water. Does it matter they are vessel around? Thanks again! Hope the eye is doing better… Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 3:43 PM  That's the one I have, Alex.  Be sure to rinse well in fresh water and allow to dry before storing it.  A booklet explaining its use comes with it.Kent Kent Robertsonkarkauai@... voice/text On Aug 30, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:  Thank you Erik, I think I found it: http://www.boatzincs.com/corrosion-reference-electrode-specs.html Do you use it yourself? Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 12:44 PM  The silver electrode is available from boatzincs.com it is about $120- US.  Fair WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376   From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:34 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity   Alexandre, The number 900 refers to potential, which is also measured using a multi meter , but you also have to have a silver cathode , expensive. It would probably be best for you to have a marine electrician perform that measurement if you are not familiar with multi meters . It would not take them but a few minutes. Just measuring that you have continuity , you would just listen for the beep , the number will also change from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 ,I cannot remember , just listen for the beep.Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 11:39 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity Good morning Pat, The way you describe it sounds very simple… at the next haul it will do that and you mentioned the number should be 900 (?) Do you have to check several items? quadrant then ground copper strap in the bilge or 1 is enough? Thanks again. Sincerely, Alexandre -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 10:11 AM  Alexandre, Its pretty simple, take a wire and clip it onto the quadrant where the ground wires connect , or to the copper ground strap in the bilge , then connect the wire to one side of a multi meter , say the black lead and then place the red lead on the zincs on your rudder . You of course have to set your meter to the continuity setting , its simple , have someone that knows how to use a meter show you or follow instructions provided with your meter.If you have continuity your meter will beep and the numbers change. While its vital that you have continuity , as I have just learned , that does not mean that you have adequate continuity. While you are in the water you can have the potential checked which gives you a better picture of the state of protection. Don't ask me to explain potential , I only have a foggy idea of what it means and could not put it into words. Hope this helps, Pat SM123 -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2016 10:43 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity  Good morning Pat, Thanks for sharing the information. Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you measure the continuity… I hate to admit it, I didn’t know about it when I did the last haul out in March 2015, I then read on the forum and the owner manual. And will definitely want to do it next year. But how do you do it? (pictures rather than words would be so nice)… I assume you can only do it on land. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/30/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Degraded continuity To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 7:51 AM  Before my boat went into back into the water yesterday , I checked for continuity between the copper strap and the zincs and I did have continuity. Later , I had two marine electricians on the boat and they checked the potential from the quadrant and found it to be only 560 , they tell me that they would expect to see about 900. 900 would insure that the zincs are protecting the metal parts of the boat. We can only speculate that the connection between the quadrant wire and the zincs have been degraded . There may not be enough contact between the zinc bolt and the strap inside the rudder , it would only be the threaded area of the bolt and the strap , and stainless is not the best metal as a conductor . Bottom line is that I need more zinc protection/contact. They suggested that we install a large zinc on the hull with two bronze bolts ( better conductivity )through the hull , wired directly to the strap in the bilge. I am writing this to inform the group , that just because you have continuity , does not mean that you have adequate contact/protection. 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