[Amel Yacht Owners] sea wather from bow-thruster


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Enio,

No problem for your English, we understand.

Is there anything that can obstruct?

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 10/4/16, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] sea wather from bow-thruster
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2016, 3:11 AM


 









Last year, with rough sea, water entered from my
bow-thruster. This summer I managed  to remove the b.t. and
to replace old with new foam rings, sent by Amel SAV.
I inserted them in the black tube, such as by
specification: 2 rings below and one above. With boat on
ground hight b.t. than the hull seems OK and so I think the
b.t. rigging is in place.
Now a strange
thing appens. 
In the water, when I use my
bt,
SOMETIMES it is highest and the pin
enters without any difficulty, but then enters the water;

SOMETIMES is greater resistence (hole
lower) but the water does not enter.
What
should I do???
Put a futher ring below?
Tree rings, instead of two, could be a solution?
Or replace all the rings in natural foam with
those of neoprene?
The rings I put are new
ones : 29x42x8 in natural foam.
Thank you
all for your attention and I apologize for the quality of my
english. Regars.
Enio Rossi
EARENDIL #SN122
Italy









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rossienio@...
 

Hi Alexandre, I really do not think so. If there was some kind of impediment that creates obstruction will cause difficulties to climb the b.t., it is not so, seems to rise too. I thought that the rings from drying out where they are above the water level gives a smaller thickness. I also tried to keep down the b.t. on berth for dunking them, but I get almost nothing. Regards.
Eniorossi
EARENDIL #SN122
Italy


rossienio@...
 

Is is possible that no one has ever had such problems on bow-thruster? May I have incorrectly fitted foam washers?  Thanks for your help and greetings.
enio rossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I think it may be possible that your bow is too low in the water...that it is overloaded. Can you completely rule out this possibility? If not try to answer these questions:
  1. Can you tell me what the water level is inside the bow thruster cavity Measured from the top to the water)? The only way that you could tell this is to have the bow thruster removed when you are in the water.
  2. I assume that you cannot answer 1 above. Can you tell me if the orange stripe along the water line has ever been moved and painted higher?
  3. Can you measure the distance from the bottom of the orange stripe to the water about 1 meter aft from the bow entry in the water. And measure the distance from the bottom of the orange stripe to the water where the engine exhaust is located.
Bill
BeBe #387

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:02 PM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Is is possible that no one has ever had such problems on bow-thruster? May I have incorrectly fitted foam washers?  Thanks for your help and greetings.
enio rossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY



James Alton
 

Bill,
 
   I wanted to update you to let you know that I was able to separate the motor and foot of my bow thruster using your suggestions of patience, gentle tapping and lots of penetrant.  My boat as you know sat for quite a number of years and it is unclear when the bow thruster was last serviced which I am sure was a factor in the buildup of corrosion.  I plan to remove it each year to check the condition of the lubricant and clean up and grease the corrosion prone areas.    I was quite impressed with the design and the construction of the Amel bow thruster and am so glad that my boat is equipped with one as it is quite effective.  Very kind of you to take your time to help those with questions.
 
Best,
 
James Alton
SV Sueno.
1987 Maramu #220
Sardinia, Italy
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2016 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] sea wather from bow-thruster

 
I think it may be possible that your bow is too low in the water...that it is overloaded. Can you completely rule out this possibility? If not try to answer these questions:
  1. Can you tell me what the water level is inside the bow thruster cavity Measured from the top to the water)? The only way that you could tell this is to have the bow thruster removed when you are in the water.
  2. I assume that you cannot answer 1 above. Can you tell me if the orange stripe along the water line has ever been moved and painted higher?
  3. Can you measure the distance from the bottom of the orange stripe to the water about 1 meter aft from the bow entry in the water. And measure the distance from the bottom of the orange stripe to the water where the engine exhaust is located.
Bill
BeBe #387

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:02 PM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Is is possible that no one has ever had such problems on bow-thruster? May I have incorrectly fitted foam washers?  Thanks for your help and greetings.
enio rossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

James,

Great! I am glad that you found the patience. Your bow thruster may have been one of the more difficult ones with all of the layup time. So the next time someone says that they are going to do something foolish, I am passing the baton to you to tell them what to do.

Service every two years is sufficient...no need to service every year.

One thing that you may want to consider is obtaining or making an Amel in-the-water tool for removing the bow thruster in the water. I have one and have used it once on BeBe and several times with other Amels.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:21 PM, lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
 
   I wanted to update you to let you know that I was able to separate the motor and foot of my bow thruster using your suggestions of patience, gentle tapping and lots of penetrant.  My boat as you know sat for quite a number of years and it is unclear when the bow thruster was last serviced which I am sure was a factor in the buildup of corrosion.  I plan to remove it each year to check the condition of the lubricant and clean up and grease the corrosion prone areas.    I was quite impressed with the design and the construction of the Amel bow thruster and am so glad that my boat is equipped with one as it is quite effective.  Very kind of you to take your time to help those with questions.
 
Best,
 
James Alton
SV Sueno.
1987 Maramu #220
Sardinia, Italy
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2016 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] sea wather from bow-thruster

 
I think it may be possible that your bow is too low in the water...that it is overloaded. Can you completely rule out this possibility? If not try to answer these questions:
  1. Can you tell me what the water level is inside the bow thruster cavity Measured from the top to the water)? The only way that you could tell this is to have the bow thruster removed when you are in the water.
  2. I assume that you cannot answer 1 above. Can you tell me if the orange stripe along the water line has ever been moved and painted higher?
  3. Can you measure the distance from the bottom of the orange stripe to the water about 1 meter aft from the bow entry in the water. And measure the distance from the bottom of the orange stripe to the water where the engine exhaust is located.
Bill
BeBe #387

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:02 PM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Is is possible that no one has ever had such problems on bow-thruster? May I have incorrectly fitted foam washers?  Thanks for your help and greetings.
enio rossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY



rossienio@...
 

The bow of my boat is very high on the water level and the water enters in the boat only with waves.
I've done the maintenance and replaced 3 foam rings the springtime this year : two foam rings below and one above. Slightly cutting rings below on a side (starboard). The foams are the new ones 29x42x8.
The problem is :
sometimes the B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort, but , in case of waves, the water filters in the boat.
other times the BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort and the water does not enter.

How about  putting a third foam ring under??
To relace the rings in natural foam with those in neoprene coul be a solution?
Thanks to all. Regards.
 EnioRossi
#SN122 Earendil
Italy


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

This is my guess:

When the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort," the foam donuts are probably being distorted and water is passing through where the foam is distorted.

When the "BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort," the foam aligns as it should and the unit is sealed.

I believe your problem with water entry is that the "raised limit" is not correct when the "B.T. climbs higher."

There could be different causes based on the year of manufacture of your Amel bow thruster. If I had your problem on Super Maramu #387, the most likely defective parts would be the upper limit switch or the relay it is connect to inside of the control box...and it could be either the switch or the relay, or both. 

I am convinced this is what is happening when  the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort:"
  1. The bow thruster goes up and reaches the "raised limit" where it should stop
  2. The "raised limit" switch engages when it should...BUT..
  3. The actuator motor which raises and lowers continues raising the bow thruster until it reaches a physical limitation
  4. The actuator motor strains against the physical limitation and amperage increases in the circuit as the bow thruster can no longer move and heat travels through the circuit.
  5. When the amperage and heat increases enough through the relay, the relay finally makes correct contact or opens, stopping the actuator motor.
  6. But the bow thruster has distorted the lower foam seals and water will enter.
If this is not corrected soon, either some things will burn up including the actuator motor, relay and switch, or a fuse inside the control box will burn...but earlier model bow thrusters did not have this fuse and some bow thrusters have too large of a fuse.

Hopefully with my explanation, you, or a technician can find your problem.

In the meantime and until it is repaired, I advise you to manually turn off the bow thruster when you are raising it before it reaches the physical limit. One person at the bow thruster and one at the bow thruster power switch will work...then use the pin. You may have to pull on one of the cables to align the pin correctly.

Bill
BeBe 387

Questa è la mia ipotesi:

Quando l'elica di prua (B.T.) "sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo", le ciambelle schiuma sono probabilmente essere distorti e l'acqua sta attraversando in cui la schiuma è distorta.

Quando "B.T. sale meno, il perno entra con uno sforzo maggiore," la schiuma allinea come dovrebbe e l'unità è sigillata.

Credo che il tuo problema con l'ingresso di acqua è che il "limite sollevato" non è corretto quando il "B.T. sale più in alto."

Ci potrebbero essere diverse cause sulla base dell'anno di costruzione della vostra Amel BT. Se ho avuto il problema su Super Maramu # 387, le parti più probabili difettoso sarebbe l'interruttore di limite superiore o il relè si collegano verso l'interno della scatola di controllo ... e potrebbe essere sia l'interruttore o relè, o entrambi.

Sono convinto che questo è ciò che sta accadendo quando il "B.T. sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo:"
1.) Il B.T. sale e raggiunge il "limite sollevato" dove dovrebbe fermarsi
2.) L'interruttore di "limite sollevato" impegna quando dovrebbe ... MA ..
3.) Il motore attuatore che alza e abbassa continua alzando il B.T. fino a raggiungere una limitazione fisica
4.) Il motore attuatore ceppi contro la limitazione e l'amperaggio fisiche aumenti il ​​circuito con B.T. non può più muoversi e calore viaggia attraverso il circuito.
5.) Quando l'amperaggio e calore aumenta abbastanza attraverso il relè, il relè, infine, rende corretto contatto o si apre, arrestare il motore attuatore.
6.) Ma la B.T. ha distorto i sigilli schiuma bassi e l'acqua entrerà.
Se questo non è corretto presto, sia alcune cose brucerà tra cui il motore attuatore, relè e uno switch o un fusibile all'interno della scatola di controllo brucerà ... ma modello precedente B.T. non ha avuto questo fusibile e alcuni propulsori di prua hanno troppo grande di un fusibile.

Speriamo che con la mia spiegazione, voi, o un tecnico in grado di trovare il vostro problema.

Nel frattempo e fino a quando non viene riparato, vi consiglio di spegnere manualmente il B.T. quando si stanno alzando prima che raggiunga il limite fisico. Una persona alla B.T. e uno al B.T. interruttore di alimentazione funziona ... quindi utilizzare il pin. Potrebbe essere necessario tirare uno dei cavi per allineare correttamente il perno.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:00 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The bow of my boat is very high on the water level and the water enters in the boat only with waves.
I've done the maintenance and replaced 3 foam rings the springtime this year : two foam rings below and one above. Slightly cutting rings below on a side (starboard). The foams are the new ones 29x42x8.
The problem is :
sometimes the B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort, but , in case of waves, the water filters in the boat.
other times the BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort and the water does not enter.

How about  putting a third foam ring under??
To relace the rings in natural foam with those in neoprene coul be a solution?
Thanks to all. Regards.
 EnioRossi
#SN122 Earendil
Italy



James Alton
 

Bill,

   Great analysis.  

   On the bow thruster for my 1987 Maramu, I have two large O-ring grooves moulded into the hole in the hull for the composite tube to slid and seal on instead of the lip seal used on the Super Maramu.   Do you know if this system worked well or should I look at upgrading to the newer system with the lip seal?

   One other question.  I noticed that the old foam donuts had compressed quite a bit,  measuring about 2/3 of their original thickness where they had been under pressure.  My boat is currently in dry storage and I was wondering if it might be best to leave the pin out and to not fully compress my new seals until the boat is put back into service?  

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Sardinia,  Italy

On Oct 17, 2016, at 10:59 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


This is my guess:

When the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort," the foam donuts are probably being distorted and water is passing through where the foam is distorted.

When the "BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort," the foam aligns as it should and the unit is sealed.

I believe your problem with water entry is that the "raised limit" is not correct when the "B.T. climbs higher."

There could be different causes based on the year of manufacture of your Amel bow thruster. If I had your problem on Super Maramu #387, the most likely defective parts would be the upper limit switch or the relay it is connect to inside of the control box...and it could be either the switch or the relay, or both. 

I am convinced this is what is happening when  the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort:"
  1. The bow thruster goes up and reaches the "raised limit" where it should stop
  2. The "raised limit" switch engages when it should...BUT..
  3. The actuator motor which raises and lowers continues raising the bow thruster until it reaches a physical limitation
  4. The actuator motor strains against the physical limitation and amperage increases in the circuit as the bow thruster can no longer move and heat travels through the circuit.
  5. When the amperage and heat increases enough through the relay, the relay finally makes correct contact or opens, stopping the actuator motor.
  6. But the bow thruster has distorted the lower foam seals and water will enter.
If this is not corrected soon, either some things will burn up including the actuator motor, relay and switch, or a fuse inside the control box will burn...but earlier model bow thrusters did not have this fuse and some bow thrusters have too large of a fuse.

Hopefully with my explanation, you, or a technician can find your problem.

In the meantime and until it is repaired, I advise you to manually turn off the bow thruster when you are raising it before it reaches the physical limit. One person at the bow thruster and one at the bow thruster power switch will work...then use the pin. You may have to pull on one of the cables to align the pin correctly.

Bill
BeBe 387

Questa è la mia ipotesi:

Quando l'elica di prua (B.T.) "sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo", le ciambelle schiuma sono probabilmente essere distorti e l'acqua sta attraversando in cui la schiuma è distorta.

Quando "B.T. sale meno, il perno entra con uno sforzo maggiore," la schiuma allinea come dovrebbe e l'unità è sigillata.

Credo che il tuo problema con l'ingresso di acqua è che il "limite sollevato" non è corretto quando il "B.T. sale più in alto."

Ci potrebbero essere diverse cause sulla base dell'anno di costruzione della vostra Amel BT. Se ho avuto il problema su Super Maramu # 387, le parti più probabili difettoso sarebbe l'interruttore di limite superiore o il relè si collegano verso l'interno della scatola di controllo ... e potrebbe essere sia l'interruttore o relè, o entrambi.

Sono convinto che questo è ciò che sta accadendo quando il "B.T. sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo:"
1.) Il B.T. sale e raggiunge il "limite sollevato" dove dovrebbe fermarsi
2.) L'interruttore di "limite sollevato" impegna quando dovrebbe ... MA ..
3.) Il motore attuatore che alza e abbassa continua alzando il B.T. fino a raggiungere una limitazione fisica
4.) Il motore attuatore ceppi contro la limitazione e l'amperaggio fisiche aumenti il ​​circuito con B.T. non può più muoversi e calore viaggia attraverso il circuito.
5.) Quando l'amperaggio e calore aumenta abbastanza attraverso il relè, il relè, infine, rende corretto contatto o si apre, arrestare il motore attuatore.
6.) Ma la B.T. ha distorto i sigilli schiuma bassi e l'acqua entrerà.
Se questo non è corretto presto, sia alcune cose brucerà tra cui il motore attuatore, relè e uno switch o un fusibile all'interno della scatola di controllo brucerà ... ma modello precedente B.T. non ha avuto questo fusibile e alcuni propulsori di prua hanno troppo grande di un fusibile.

Speriamo che con la mia spiegazione, voi, o un tecnico in grado di trovare il vostro problema.

Nel frattempo e fino a quando non viene riparato, vi consiglio di spegnere manualmente il B.T. quando si stanno alzando prima che raggiunga il limite fisico. Una persona alla B.T. e uno al B.T. interruttore di alimentazione funziona ... quindi utilizzare il pin. Potrebbe essere necessario tirare uno dei cavi per allineare correttamente il perno.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:00 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The bow of my boat is very high on the water level and the water enters in the boat only with waves.
I've done the maintenance and replaced 3 foam rings the springtime this year : two foam rings below and one above. Slightly cutting rings below on a side (starboard). The foams are the new ones 29x42x8.
The problem is :
sometimes the B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort, but , in case of waves, the water filters in the boat.
other times the BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort and the water does not enter.

How about  putting a third foam ring under??
To relace the rings in natural foam with those in neoprene coul be a solution?
Thanks to all. Regards.
 EnioRossi
#SN122 Earendil
Italy





Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Both good questions.

Here is my opinion. Henri Amel created a really good retractable bow thruster when there were none on the market. It went through several changes and updates in its 25+/- year history. I suspect the O ring was replaced by the lip seal for some good reason. I do not know the reason.

I believe and Amel specifies that the bow thruster should be serviced every 2 years, replacing the gear oil, the foam donuts, lip seal, nylon hub for the propeller, and the propeller shaft seal. Your Amel is certainly due for the two year service and also possibly the replacement of the internal bearings.

I have never stored BeBe on the hard for any length of time, but if I did, it probably makes sense  to release the pin on the Bow Thruster. BTW, Amel recommends releasing tension on all sail halyards when not sailing.

Bill
BeBe 387
Trinidad

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:24 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


   Great analysis.  

   On the bow thruster for my 1987 Maramu, I have two large O-ring grooves moulded into the hole in the hull for the composite tube to slid and seal on instead of the lip seal used on the Super Maramu.   Do you know if this system worked well or should I look at upgrading to the newer system with the lip seal?

   One other question.  I noticed that the old foam donuts had compressed quite a bit,  measuring about 2/3 of their original thickness where they had been under pressure.  My boat is currently in dry storage and I was wondering if it might be best to leave the pin out and to not fully compress my new seals until the boat is put back into service?  

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Sardinia,  Italy

On Oct 17, 2016, at 10:59 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


This is my guess:

When the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort," the foam donuts are probably being distorted and water is passing through where the foam is distorted.

When the "BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort," the foam aligns as it should and the unit is sealed.

I believe your problem with water entry is that the "raised limit" is not correct when the "B.T. climbs higher."

There could be different causes based on the year of manufacture of your Amel bow thruster. If I had your problem on Super Maramu #387, the most likely defective parts would be the upper limit switch or the relay it is connect to inside of the control box...and it could be either the switch or the relay, or both. 

I am convinced this is what is happening when  the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort:"
  1. The bow thruster goes up and reaches the "raised limit" where it should stop
  2. The "raised limit" switch engages when it should...BUT..
  3. The actuator motor which raises and lowers continues raising the bow thruster until it reaches a physical limitation
  4. The actuator motor strains against the physical limitation and amperage increases in the circuit as the bow thruster can no longer move and heat travels through the circuit.
  5. When the amperage and heat increases enough through the relay, the relay finally makes correct contact or opens, stopping the actuator motor.
  6. But the bow thruster has distorted the lower foam seals and water will enter.
If this is not corrected soon, either some things will burn up including the actuator motor, relay and switch, or a fuse inside the control box will burn...but earlier model bow thrusters did not have this fuse and some bow thrusters have too large of a fuse.

Hopefully with my explanation, you, or a technician can find your problem.

In the meantime and until it is repaired, I advise you to manually turn off the bow thruster when you are raising it before it reaches the physical limit. One person at the bow thruster and one at the bow thruster power switch will work...then use the pin. You may have to pull on one of the cables to align the pin correctly.

Bill
BeBe 387

Questa è la mia ipotesi:

Quando l'elica di prua (B.T.) "sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo", le ciambelle schiuma sono probabilmente essere distorti e l'acqua sta attraversando in cui la schiuma è distorta.

Quando "B.T. sale meno, il perno entra con uno sforzo maggiore," la schiuma allinea come dovrebbe e l'unità è sigillata.

Credo che il tuo problema con l'ingresso di acqua è che il "limite sollevato" non è corretto quando il "B.T. sale più in alto."

Ci potrebbero essere diverse cause sulla base dell'anno di costruzione della vostra Amel BT. Se ho avuto il problema su Super Maramu # 387, le parti più probabili difettoso sarebbe l'interruttore di limite superiore o il relè si collegano verso l'interno della scatola di controllo ... e potrebbe essere sia l'interruttore o relè, o entrambi.

Sono convinto che questo è ciò che sta accadendo quando il "B.T. sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo:"
1.) Il B.T. sale e raggiunge il "limite sollevato" dove dovrebbe fermarsi
2.) L'interruttore di "limite sollevato" impegna quando dovrebbe ... MA ..
3.) Il motore attuatore che alza e abbassa continua alzando il B.T. fino a raggiungere una limitazione fisica
4.) Il motore attuatore ceppi contro la limitazione e l'amperaggio fisiche aumenti il ​​circuito con B.T. non può più muoversi e calore viaggia attraverso il circuito.
5.) Quando l'amperaggio e calore aumenta abbastanza attraverso il relè, il relè, infine, rende corretto contatto o si apre, arrestare il motore attuatore.
6.) Ma la B.T. ha distorto i sigilli schiuma bassi e l'acqua entrerà.
Se questo non è corretto presto, sia alcune cose brucerà tra cui il motore attuatore, relè e uno switch o un fusibile all'interno della scatola di controllo brucerà ... ma modello precedente B.T. non ha avuto questo fusibile e alcuni propulsori di prua hanno troppo grande di un fusibile.

Speriamo che con la mia spiegazione, voi, o un tecnico in grado di trovare il vostro problema.

Nel frattempo e fino a quando non viene riparato, vi consiglio di spegnere manualmente il B.T. quando si stanno alzando prima che raggiunga il limite fisico. Una persona alla B.T. e uno al B.T. interruttore di alimentazione funziona ... quindi utilizzare il pin. Potrebbe essere necessario tirare uno dei cavi per allineare correttamente il perno.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:00 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The bow of my boat is very high on the water level and the water enters in the boat only with waves.
I've done the maintenance and replaced 3 foam rings the springtime this year : two foam rings below and one above. Slightly cutting rings below on a side (starboard). The foams are the new ones 29x42x8.
The problem is :
sometimes the B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort, but , in case of waves, the water filters in the boat.
other times the BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort and the water does not enter.

How about  putting a third foam ring under??
To relace the rings in natural foam with those in neoprene coul be a solution?
Thanks to all. Regards.
 EnioRossi
#SN122 Earendil
Italy






James Alton
 

Bill,

   I agree, the bow thruster is a really great design.  IMO, it is vastly superior to the tunnel type thrusters due to the larger diameter, slower turning (more efficient,  more thrust).  I also like the fact that when it is retracted everything is protected.  I am hoping that the bottom paint will be pretty effective in controlling marine growth.  With a high speed in tunnel thruster I have found it hard to keep paint on the blades.  Henri Amel had a lot of vision I think.

   I gave the gearbox of my bow thruster a really good flushing with white spirits.  There was a slight amount of milky oil and rust in the very bottom.  I replaced the prop shaft lip seal and refilled with fresh oil but so far I have not replaced the bearings.  The thruster sounds good when run in both directions both before and after the servicing  but I noticed that it felt a little rough when I turned the shaft before the oil was replaced.  With the boat out of the water, the prop takes more than 3 seconds to spin down.   I could not feel any play at all in the prop shaft, laterally or in and out.  I would like to replace the bearings as you suggested but am hoping that I can get another 3 months out of what are probably the originals.  Can you advise based on this information whether you feel I should change them now, or go one more season?

   The foam seals have all been replaced and they have a lot more compression than the old ones.

   Good point about releasing the tension on the halyards.  I actually removed all of the sails for storage so the tension is just enough to control slapping.

   I note that my boat has a powerful adjuster on the main permanent backstay.  Is this to make it easy to add tension to reduce forestay sag or to make detensioning that stay easy when the boat is not sailing?

Best,

James

On Oct 17, 2016, at 1:57 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Both good questions.

Here is my opinion. Henri Amel created a really good retractable bow thruster when there were none on the market. It went through several changes and updates in its 25+/- year history. I suspect the O ring was replaced by the lip seal for some good reason. I do not know the reason.

I believe and Amel specifies that the bow thruster should be serviced every 2 years, replacing the gear oil, the foam donuts, lip seal, nylon hub for the propeller, and the propeller shaft seal. Your Amel is certainly due for the two year service and also possibly the replacement of the internal bearings. 

I have never stored BeBe on the hard for any length of time, but if I did, it probably makes sense  to release the pin on the Bow Thruster. BTW, Amel recommends releasing tension on all sail halyards when not sailing.

Bill
BeBe 387
Trinidad

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:24 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>wrote:
 

Bill,


   Great analysis.  

   On the bow thruster for my 1987 Maramu, I have two large O-ring grooves moulded into the hole in the hull for the composite tube to slid and seal on instead of the lip seal used on the Super Maramu.   Do you know if this system worked well or should I look at upgrading to the newer system with the lip seal?

   One other question.  I noticed that the old foam donuts had compressed quite a bit,  measuring about 2/3 of their original thickness where they had been under pressure.  My boat is currently in dry storage and I was wondering if it might be best to leave the pin out and to not fully compress my new seals until the boat is put back into service?  

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Sardinia,  Italy

On Oct 17, 2016, at 10:59 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


This is my guess:

When the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort," the foam donuts are probably being distorted and water is passing through where the foam is distorted.

When the "BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort," the foam aligns as it should and the unit is sealed.

I believe your problem with water entry is that the "raised limit" is not correct when the "B.T. climbs higher."

There could be different causes based on the year of manufacture of your Amel bow thruster. If I had your problem on Super Maramu #387, the most likely defective parts would be the upper limit switch or the relay it is connect to inside of the control box...and it could be either the switch or the relay, or both. 

I am convinced this is what is happening when  the "B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort:"
  1. The bow thruster goes up and reaches the "raised limit" where it should stop
  2. The "raised limit" switch engages when it should...BUT..
  3. The actuator motor which raises and lowers continues raising the bow thruster until it reaches a physical limitation
  4. The actuator motor strains against the physical limitation and amperage increases in the circuit as the bow thruster can no longer move and heat travels through the circuit.
  5. When the amperage and heat increases enough through the relay, the relay finally makes correct contact or opens, stopping the actuator motor.
  6. But the bow thruster has distorted the lower foam seals and water will enter.
If this is not corrected soon, either some things will burn up including the actuator motor, relay and switch, or a fuse inside the control box will burn...but earlier model bow thrusters did not have this fuse and some bow thrusters have too large of a fuse.

Hopefully with my explanation, you, or a technician can find your problem.

In the meantime and until it is repaired, I advise you to manually turn off the bow thruster when you are raising it before it reaches the physical limit. One person at the bow thruster and one at the bow thruster power switch will work...then use the pin. You may have to pull on one of the cables to align the pin correctly.

Bill
BeBe 387

Questa è la mia ipotesi:

Quando l'elica di prua (B.T.) "sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo", le ciambelle schiuma sono probabilmente essere distorti e l'acqua sta attraversando in cui la schiuma è distorta.

Quando "B.T. sale meno, il perno entra con uno sforzo maggiore," la schiuma allinea come dovrebbe e l'unità è sigillata.

Credo che il tuo problema con l'ingresso di acqua è che il "limite sollevato" non è corretto quando il "B.T. sale più in alto."

Ci potrebbero essere diverse cause sulla base dell'anno di costruzione della vostra Amel BT. Se ho avuto il problema su Super Maramu # 387, le parti più probabili difettoso sarebbe l'interruttore di limite superiore o il relè si collegano verso l'interno della scatola di controllo ... e potrebbe essere sia l'interruttore o relè, o entrambi.

Sono convinto che questo è ciò che sta accadendo quando il "B.T. sale più in alto e il perno entra senza sforzo:"
1.) Il B.T. sale e raggiunge il "limite sollevato" dove dovrebbe fermarsi
2.) L'interruttore di "limite sollevato" impegna quando dovrebbe ... MA ..
3.) Il motore attuatore che alza e abbassa continua alzando il B.T. fino a raggiungere una limitazione fisica
4.) Il motore attuatore ceppi contro la limitazione e l'amperaggio fisiche aumenti il ​​circuito con B.T. non può più muoversi e calore viaggia attraverso il circuito.
5.) Quando l'amperaggio e calore aumenta abbastanza attraverso il relè, il relè, infine, rende corretto contatto o si apre, arrestare il motore attuatore.
6.) Ma la B.T. ha distorto i sigilli schiuma bassi e l'acqua entrerà.
Se questo non è corretto presto, sia alcune cose brucerà tra cui il motore attuatore, relè e uno switch o un fusibile all'interno della scatola di controllo brucerà ... ma modello precedente B.T. non ha avuto questo fusibile e alcuni propulsori di prua hanno troppo grande di un fusibile.

Speriamo che con la mia spiegazione, voi, o un tecnico in grado di trovare il vostro problema.

Nel frattempo e fino a quando non viene riparato, vi consiglio di spegnere manualmente il B.T. quando si stanno alzando prima che raggiunga il limite fisico. Una persona alla B.T. e uno al B.T. interruttore di alimentazione funziona ... quindi utilizzare il pin. Potrebbe essere necessario tirare uno dei cavi per allineare correttamente il perno.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:00 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The bow of my boat is very high on the water level and the water enters in the boat only with waves.
I've done the maintenance and replaced 3 foam rings the springtime this year : two foam rings below and one above. Slightly cutting rings below on a side (starboard). The foams are the new ones 29x42x8.
The problem is :
sometimes the B.T. climbs higher and the pin enters without effort, but , in case of waves, the water filters in the boat.
other times the BT climbs less, the pin comes in with more effort and the water does not enter.

How about  putting a third foam ring under??
To relace the rings in natural foam with those in neoprene coul be a solution?
Thanks to all. Regards.
 EnioRossi
#SN122 Earendil
Italy









rossienio@...
 

Thanks Bill, for your help.
 I looked in the box of the switches and, I think, that the problem is right there.
I enclose 5 photos to make it clear what type of control box is : The boat is Santorin 122 year 1995.
I run some tests: at the end of the lifting or lowering movement of the BT a sound signals the end of the operation. Does it mean that the switches work correctly?
Could it be simply a problem of incorrect positioning of the locks on the spindle that triggs the switches? (photo BT5)??
For now I turn it off manually, but I need to find asap a solution.
Thanks to all.

EnioRossi
Earendil #SN122
Italy 


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Enio,

I have not seen an early Amel Bow thruster, but my guess of your problem is described on this photo: 


I hope this helps,

Bill
BeBe #387

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 5:42 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill, for your help.
 I looked in the box of the switches and, I think, that the problem is right there.
I enclose 5 photos to make it clear what type of control box is : The boat is Santorin 122 year 1995.
I run some tests: at the end of the lifting or lowering movement of the BT a sound signals the end of the operation. Does it mean that the switches work correctly?
Could it be simply a problem of incorrect positioning of the locks on the spindle that triggs the switches? (photo BT5)??
For now I turn it off manually, but I need to find asap a solution.
Thanks to all.

EnioRossi
Earendil #SN122
Italy 



rossienio@...
 

Good day to all. There is someone who has the SAME tow-thruster that works well? It would be useful for me to see a picture with activator and plunger switch well aligned, before making changes to my BT.
Thanks.

EnioRossi
#sn122 Earendil
Italy


Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

I’ll get some posted up in a few hours.  I think that our bow thrusters are likely the same.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Oct 26, 2016, at 06:13, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good day to all. There is someone who has the SAME tow-thruster that works well? It would be useful for me to see a picture with activator and plunger switch well aligned, before making changes to my BT. 
Thanks.

EnioRossi
#sn122 Earendil
Italy



rossienio@...
 

The photos just put in are those of MY BT. But it does not work well. This because (as says Bill Rouse) the activator switch position and the position of the plunger switch appears incorrect. I would like to see the pictures with CORRECT aligment of the activator on the plunger.. I have a feeling that the previous owner of my Santorin has made changes. For this I would like to see original photos, if possible.  Regards.
EnioRossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
Italy


rossienio@...
 

Good morning Bill and thank you.
Does it mean that the activator switches are too small to get precisely on the plunger??
If so, given that the points of the activator and plunger where the rodes are positioned are fixed, should I build two new activators with radius of 2mm wider and replace the current ones?
Regards

EnioRossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY


Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Good Morning,

I never had need to adjust mine, it has stayed in good form. As long as the activator touches the switch enough to depress it as the thruster rises, it is good. If it misses the switch, or slides off to the side it is bad.

Mine has three adjustments:  The small arm that actually touches the switch can rotate.  The larger arm that clamps on the shaft can rotate, or move up and down the shaft.  

The rotation of either of those parts makes sure the arm engages the plunger switch. Moving it up and down the shaft controls the final stopping point as the thruster rises.

If yours is the same,  I have to believe that these three adjustments should get things right for you, unless something is very much out of normal position.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Highlands, NJ
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Oct 27, 2016, at 06:08, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good morning Bill and thank you.
Does it mean that the activator switches are too small to get precisely on the plunger??
If so, given that the points of the activator and plunger where the rodes are positioned are fixed, should I build two new activators with radius of 2mm wider and replace the current ones?
Regards

EnioRossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY



Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Enio,

Is there an obvious reason that these are no longer aligned? I think it can be adjusted into alignment.

look at this photo of your bow thruster: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1122811917/lightbox/1338938605?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1338938605

Bill
Bebe 387

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:08 AM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good morning Bill and thank you.
Does it mean that the activator switches are too small to get precisely on the plunger??
If so, given that the points of the activator and plunger where the rodes are positioned are fixed, should I build two new activators with radius of 2mm wider and replace the current ones?
Regards

EnioRossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
ITALY