[Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Pat,

My Super Maramu 2000 came with the AMFA Marina ZZ bilge pump.
http://nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html

But if I were you, I would put what Francisco and Oddette put on Peregrinus, which is the “AMFA/TF pump version 2”.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico




--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 10/16/16, sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 16, 2016, 8:44 AM


 









I have a Jabsco sump pump and have
found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced
everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge
every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I
have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly
loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for 
some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope
it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find
it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell
me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it
with something more reliable
?Thanks,Pat SM
#123


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Pat,

I think all SN's, SM's 54's and 55's came with the Reya/AMFA Marina Pump to pump out the gray water sump. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/search/photos?query=bilge%20pump#zax/albums_1890643196

This is the pump: http://www.reya.com/prod_-POMPE-MARINA-ZZ-24V-1800L-H_Pompes-a-membranes-REYA_000178219832156_206136.html

It is not cheap and the previous owner probably picked Jabsco over paying about 600++ Euros for the "Marina Pump." However, the  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump is far superior.

When most any lift pump stops working, it is because of an air leak that causes loss of prime and loss of vacuum while pumping. The most common missed item is a hardening of the hose which causes air leaking at the pump side and liquid leaking at the lift side...be sure to have double clamps and silicone grease in the junction. But, air leaks can also happen internally with the flapper valves, diaphragm and pump case.

I have two of these  Reya/AMFA Marina Pumps...one installed and one ready replacement. Possibly some other owner has a  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump that they will sell to you.

Of course, there is always Jabsco.

Bill
BeBe, 387



On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good morning Pat,

My Super Maramu 2000 came with the AMFA Marina ZZ bilge pump.
http://nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html

But if I were you, I would put what Francisco and Oddette put on Peregrinus, which is the “AMFA/TF pump version 2”.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/16/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 16, 2016, 8:44 AM


 









I have a Jabsco sump pump and have
found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced
everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge
every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I
have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly
loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for 
some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope
it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find
it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell
me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it
with something more reliable
?Thanks,Pat SM
#123





Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?

Thanks,

Pat SM #123


Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: Amel Owners
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123


Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I never knew what was the original pump. I suspected it was not the Jabsco.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Pat,

I think all SN's, SM's 54's and 55's came with the Reya/AMFA Marina Pump to pump out the gray water sump. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/search/photos?query=bilge%20pump#zax/albums_1890643196

This is the pump: http://www.reya.com/prod_-POMPE-MARINA-ZZ-24V-1800L-H_Pompes-a-membranes-REYA_000178219832156_206136.html

It is not cheap and the previous owner probably picked Jabsco over paying about 600++ Euros for the "Marina Pump." However, the  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump is far superior.

When most any lift pump stops working, it is because of an air leak that causes loss of prime and loss of vacuum while pumping. The most common missed item is a hardening of the hose which causes air leaking at the pump side and liquid leaking at the lift side...be sure to have double clamps and silicone grease in the junction. But, air leaks can also happen internally with the flapper valves, diaphragm and pump case.

I have two of these  Reya/AMFA Marina Pumps...one installed and one ready replacement. Possibly some other owner has a  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump that they will sell to you.

Of course, there is always Jabsco.

Bill
BeBe, 387



On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Good morning Pat,

My Super Maramu 2000 came with the AMFA Marina ZZ bilge pump.
http://nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html

But if I were you, I would put what Francisco and Oddette put on Peregrinus, which is the “AMFA/TF pump version 2”.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/16/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 16, 2016, 8:44 AM


 









I have a Jabsco sump pump and have
found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced
everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge
every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I
have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly
loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for 
some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope
it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find
it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell
me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it
with something more reliable
?Thanks,Pat SM
#123





Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

This thread is an appropriate place to praise Amel and specifically Henri Amel for quality of the components selected for Amel Yachts. It seems to me that he picked each and every component based on the best available. When he felt that there were no satisfactory components available, he made them.

Of course when these original components reach the end-of-life, the current owner has a choice of rebuilding and/or replacing the original equipment with the exact or similar item...OR...replacing the component with something less.

The two freshwater pumps that I am familiar with that Amel has used in the last 25 years cost 600 and 1,000 euros respectively. The Jabsco "on demand" freshwater pump costs around 200 euro. It is your boat and it is your choice to downgrade from what Amel installed. When I am helping someone looking to buy an Amel, these are some of the first things that I look at to form an opinion of the boat.

BTW, BeBe has a Jabsco on demand freshwater pump. Its purpose is to install instead of the AMFA pump if that pump fails and needs rebuilding. I have never installed it. BeBe also has a Shurflo anchor-wash pump to install if the Amel-installed anchor-wash pump fails and needs rebuilding...I have never installed it, either.

Thanks, Henri.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:53 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill, I never knew what was the original pump. I suspected it was not the Jabsco.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Pat,

I think all SN's, SM's 54's and 55's came with the Reya/AMFA Marina Pump to pump out the gray water sump. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/search/photos?query=bilge%20pump#zax/albums_1890643196

This is the pump: http://www.reya.com/prod_-POMPE-MARINA-ZZ-24V-1800L-H_Pompes-a-membranes-REYA_000178219832156_206136.html

It is not cheap and the previous owner probably picked Jabsco over paying about 600++ Euros for the "Marina Pump." However, the  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump is far superior.

When most any lift pump stops working, it is because of an air leak that causes loss of prime and loss of vacuum while pumping. The most common missed item is a hardening of the hose which causes air leaking at the pump side and liquid leaking at the lift side...be sure to have double clamps and silicone grease in the junction. But, air leaks can also happen internally with the flapper valves, diaphragm and pump case.

I have two of these  Reya/AMFA Marina Pumps...one installed and one ready replacement. Possibly some other owner has a  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump that they will sell to you.

Of course, there is always Jabsco.

Bill
BeBe, 387



On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Good morning Pat,

My Super Maramu 2000 came with the AMFA Marina ZZ bilge pump.
http://nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html

But if I were you, I would put what Francisco and Oddette put on Peregrinus, which is the “AMFA/TF pump version 2”.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/16/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Date: Sunday, October 16, 2016, 8:44 AM


 









I have a Jabsco sump pump and have
found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced
everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge
every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I
have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly
loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for 
some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope
it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find
it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell
me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it
with something more reliable
?Thanks,Pat SM
#123






Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, The original pump does look superior to the Jabsco that the previous owner installed on my boat , especially how the two halves are bolted together as opposed to a clamp on the Jabsco , which may be a source of an air leak.
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 8:32 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
This thread is an appropriate place to praise Amel and specifically Henri Amel for quality of the components selected for Amel Yachts. It seems to me that he picked each and every component based on the best available. When he felt that there were no satisfactory components available, he made them.

Of course when these original components reach the end-of-life, the current owner has a choice of rebuilding and/or replacing the original equipment with the exact or similar item...OR...replacing the component with something less.

The two freshwater pumps that I am familiar with that Amel has used in the last 25 years cost 600 and 1,000 euros respectively. The Jabsco "on demand" freshwater pump costs around 200 euro. It is your boat and it is your choice to downgrade from what Amel installed. When I am helping someone looking to buy an Amel, these are some of the first things that I look at to form an opinion of the boat.

BTW, BeBe has a Jabsco on demand freshwater pump. Its purpose is to install instead of the AMFA pump if that pump fails and needs rebuilding. I have never installed it. BeBe also has a Shurflo anchor-wash pump to install if the Amel-installed anchor-wash pump fails and needs rebuilding...I have never installed it, either.

Thanks, Henri.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:53 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Bill, I never knew what was the original pump. I suspected it was not the Jabsco.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Pat,

I think all SN's, SM's 54's and 55's came with the Reya/AMFA Marina Pump to pump out the gray water sump. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/search/photos?query=bilge%20pump#zax/albums_1890643196

This is the pump: http://www.reya.com/prod_-POMPE-MARINA-ZZ-24V-1800L-H_Pompes-a-membranes-REYA_000178219832156_206136.html

It is not cheap and the previous owner probably picked Jabsco over paying about 600++ Euros for the "Marina Pump." However, the  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump is far superior.

When most any lift pump stops working, it is because of an air leak that causes loss of prime and loss of vacuum while pumping. The most common missed item is a hardening of the hose which causes air leaking at the pump side and liquid leaking at the lift side...be sure to have double clamps and silicone grease in the junction. But, air leaks can also happen internally with the flapper valves, diaphragm and pump case.

I have two of these  Reya/AMFA Marina Pumps...one installed and one ready replacement. Possibly some other owner has a  Reya/AMFA Marina Pump that they will sell to you.

Of course, there is always Jabsco.

Bill
BeBe, 387



On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Good morning Pat,

My Super Maramu 2000 came with the AMFA Marina ZZ bilge pump.
http://nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html

But if I were you, I would put what Francisco and Oddette put on Peregrinus, which is the “AMFA/TF pump version 2”.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/16/16, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Date: Sunday, October 16, 2016, 8:44 AM


 









I have a Jabsco sump pump and have
found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced
everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge
every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I
have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly
loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for 
some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope
it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find
it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell
me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it
with something more reliable
?Thanks,Pat SM
#123






Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat.
Try taking the suction pipe off the pump. Is it full? If not, fill it and see if it stays full. Of course if its not full the foot valve is leaking. The fill and watch will just confirm this.
I have the original pump. If the foot valve is working ie no leak allowing the water in the suction to go down at all, the pump is always full. I struggled trying to fix things at the pump. Now at last I have a foot valve that works and the pump does too. One thing I did was shorten the suction to get it higher above the sediment that gets into the sump and my problems have been much less since. Foot valves don't like bits of stuff stuck it them when they try to close.
However I wish it would self prime like the manual one does. It doesn't even have a foot valve and yet primes perfectly every time and it cheerfully pumps all the muck from the bottom.
Cheers
Danny



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: Amel Owners
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123



Patrick McAneny
 

Danny , Yes my manual pump works great. My foot valve does not leak, at least while I am watching ,over a long time it may.I do not have the original pump , I have a Jabsco , which looks inferior to the original pump. I was wondering if anyone had installed a base and a submersible mounted perhaps a foot above the bottom , occassionally using the manual one to pump out the muck.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi Pat.
Try taking the suction pipe off the pump. Is it full? If not, fill it and see if it stays full. Of course if its not full the foot valve is leaking. The fill and watch will just confirm this.
I have the original pump. If the foot valve is working ie no leak allowing the water in the suction to go down at all, the pump is always full. I struggled trying to fix things at the pump. Now at last I have a foot valve that works and the pump does too. One thing I did was shorten the suction to get it higher above the sediment that gets into the sump and my problems have been much le ss since. Foot valves don't like bits of stuff stuck it them when they try to close.
However I wish it would self prime like the manual one does. It doesn't even have a foot valve and yet primes perfectly every time and it cheerfully pumps all the muck from the bottom.
Cheers
Danny



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: Amel Owners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123



Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Pat,

Using a submersible for routine service  in the Amel bilge would NOT be a good idea.  What we call our “bilge" really is not a bilge in the traditional sense of the word. It is actually a grey water sump.  Submersible centrifugal pumps would foul and fail in very short order.  Submersible pumps can also cause all kinds of stray current problems that you really don’t want to deal with the consequences of. This would be one of those changes from the original Amel design you should just say “No” to.

It is very hard to find a 24 volt pump that is as suited to this service as the original that Amel selected. If you can find one it would be best.  Really.

But if you can’t, there are good options...

There are only a few kinds of pumps available that will work as a grey water discharge pump on an Amel. Diaphragm pumps (like the original); some kinds of piston pumps; and possibly some flexible impeller pumps.  

I worry that a flexible impeller pump would have trouble with the self-priming at the depth of the well, so I hesitate to recommend them. 

Diaphragm pumps are good at pumping “dirty water”, but you need one that is very well designed to work for very long. Most mass-market marine pumps of this sort are designed for very infrequent service as shower sump pumps, and they are even short lived at that. Amel's pump is first-rate and has a long lasting diaphragm and check valves. There are others, like the line of pumps made by Bosworth that that seem very well made, but I have no experience with, and can’t comment on longevity.

One pump that would work well in this service is the T-series discharge pump by Sealand.  They are robust, long lived, easy to care for, excellent at self-priming, no foot valve would be needed. This is a piston type pump, without the rubber diaphragm.  Maintenance consists of changing check valves about every 6 months. These are made as raw sewage pumps.  If a “chunk” can fit up the hose, they will pump it through. They can handle the “gunk”. BUT… the downside is they have lower capacity than the Amel original, and so will run longer on each discharge cycle.

Sealand also makes an “M” series pump of the same design, except with a bronze body that is much larger and has at least the capacity of the Amel original. Check hose sizes and space for this one to see if it is practical replacement.

I don’t have any interest in Sealand pumps, other than using one daily as a pump for un-macerated raw sewage for ten years with only routine maintenance.  It just worked. 

I have the good fortune that my boat came with a complete working spare of the original pump. Hopefully I can keep the original running for a long time yet.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Oct 18, 2016, at 07:59, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Danny , Yes my manual pump works great. My foot valve does not leak, at least while I am watching ,over a long time it may.I do not have the original pump , I have a Jabsco , which looks inferior to the original pump. I was wondering if anyone had installed a base and a submersible mounted perhaps a foot above the bottom , occassionally using the manual one to pump out the muck.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi Pat.
Try taking the suction pipe off the pump. Is it full? If not, fill it and see if it stays full. Of course if its not full the foot valve is leaking. The fill and watch will just confirm this.
I have the original pump. If the foot valve is working ie no leak allowing the water in the suction to go down at all, the pump is always full. I struggled trying to fix things at the pump. Now at last I have a foot valve that works and the pump does too. One thing I did was shorten the suction to get it higher above the sediment that gets into the sump and my problems have been much le ss since. Foot valves don't like bits of stuff stuck it them when they try to close. 
However I wish it would self prime like the manual one does. It doesn't even have a foot valve and yet primes perfectly every time and it cheerfully pumps all the muck from the bottom.
Cheers
Danny



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: Amel Owners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123





Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Pat,

Our “bilge” pump was replaced 2 years ago by a Vetus 14024B.  Works very well for the last 18 months.

We also bought many “duck bill” valves to keep the water head sealed.  

GL with your solution.

Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 18 Oct 2016, at 16:21, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Pat,


Using a submersible for routine service  in the Amel bilge would NOT be a good idea.  What we call our “bilge" really is not a bilge in the traditional sense of the word. It is actually a grey water sump.  Submersible centrifugal pumps would foul and fail in very short order.  Submersible pumps can also cause all kinds of stray current problems that you really don’t want to deal with the consequences of. This would be one of those changes from the original Amel design you should just say “No” to.

It is very hard to find a 24 volt pump that is as suited to this service as the original that Amel selected. If you can find one it would be best.  Really.

But if you can’t, there are good options...

There are only a few kinds of pumps available that will work as a grey water discharge pump on an Amel. Diaphragm pumps (like the original); some kinds of piston pumps; and possibly some flexible impeller pumps.  

I worry that a flexible impeller pump would have trouble with the self-priming at the depth of the well, so I hesitate to recommend them. 

Diaphragm pumps are good at pumping “dirty water”, but you need one that is very well designed to work for very long. Most mass-market marine pumps of this sort are designed for very infrequent service as shower sump pumps, and they are even short lived at that. Amel's pump is first-rate and has a long lasting diaphragm and check valves. There are others, like the line of pumps made by Bosworth that that seem very well made, but I have no experience with, and can’t comment on longevity.

One pump that would work well in this service is the T-series discharge pump by Sealand.  They are robust, long lived, easy to care for, excellent at self-priming, no foot valve would be needed. This is a piston type pump, without the rubber diaphragm.  Maintenance consists of changing check valves about every 6 months. These are made as raw sewage pumps.  If a “chunk” can fit up the hose, they will pump it through. They can handle the “gunk”. BUT… the downside is they have lower capacity than the Amel original, and so will run longer on each discharge cycle.

Sealand also makes an “M” series pump of the same design, except with a bronze body that is much larger and has at least the capacity of the Amel original. Check hose sizes and space for this one to see if it is practical replacement.

I don’t have any interest in Sealand pumps, other than using one daily as a pump for un-macerated raw sewage for ten years with only routine maintenance.  It just worked. 

I have the good fortune that my boat came with a complete working spare of the original pump. Hopefully I can keep the original running for a long time yet.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Oct 18, 2016, at 07:59, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Danny , Yes my manual pump works great. My foot valve does not leak, at least while I am watching ,over a long time it may.I do not have the original pump , I have a Jabsco , which looks inferior to the original pump. I was wondering if anyone had installed a base and a submersible mounted perhaps a foot above the bottom , occassionally using the manual one to pump out the muck.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi Pat.
Try taking the suction pipe off the pump. Is it full? If not, fill it and see if it stays full. Of course if its not full the foot valve is leaking. The fill and watch will just confirm this.
I have the original pump. If the foot valve is working ie no leak allowing the water in the suction to go down at all, the pump is always full. I struggled trying to fix things at the pump. Now at last I have a foot valve that works and the pump does too. One thing I did was shorten the suction to get it higher above the sediment that gets into the sump and my problems have been much le ss since. Foot valves don't like bits of stuff stuck it them when they try to close. 
However I wish it would self prime like the manual one does. It doesn't even have a foot valve and yet primes perfectly every time and it cheerfully pumps all the muck from the bottom.
Cheers
Danny



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: Amel Owners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123








Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Thanks for your input, and see your point about fouling a submersible . I was thinking that as well and was only wondered out loud if anyone had tried it with success. We stopped by your boat during the show, your boat was open , but you weren't there. We were looking for Joel and the 54 he was showing, sorry we missed you.
Thanks,
Pat SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2016 11:22 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Pat,

Using a submersible for routine service  in the Amel bilge would NOT be a good idea.  What we call our “bilge" really is not a bilge in the traditional sense of the word. It is actually a grey water sump.  Submersible centrifugal pumps would foul and fail in very short order.  Submersible pumps can also cause all kinds of stray current problems that you really don’t want to deal with the consequences of. This would be one of those changes from the original Amel design you should just say “No” to.

It is very hard to find a 24 volt pump that is as suited to this service as the original that Amel selected. If you can find one it would be best.  Really.

But if you can’t, there are good options...

There are only a few kinds of pumps available that will work as a grey water discharge pump on an Amel. Diaphragm pumps (like the original); some kinds of piston pumps; and possibly some flexible impeller pumps.  

I worry that a flexible impeller pump would have trouble with the self-priming at the depth of the well, so I hesitate to recommend them. 

Diaphragm pumps are good at pumping “dirty water”, but you need one that is very well designed to work for very long. Most mass-market marine pumps of this sort are designed for very infrequent service as shower sump pumps, and they are even short lived at that. Amel's pump is first-rate and has a long lasting diaphragm and check valves. There are others, like the line of pumps made by Bosworth that that seem very well made, but I have no experience with, and can’t comment on longevity.

One pump that would work well in this service is the T-series discharge pump by Sealand.  They are robust, long lived, easy to care for, excellent at self-priming, no foot valve would be needed. This is a piston type pump, without the rubber diaphragm.  Maintenance consists of changing check valves about every 6 months. These are made as raw sewage pumps.  If a “chunk” can fit up the hose, they will pump it through. They can handle the “gunk”. BUT… the downside is they have lower capacity than the Amel original, and so will run longer on each discharge cycle.

Sealand also makes an “M” series pump of the same design, except with a bronze body that is much larger and has at least the capacity of the Amel original. Check hose sizes and space for this one to see if it is practical replacement.

I don’t have any interest in Sealand pumps, other than using one daily as a pump for un-macerated raw sewage for ten years with only routine maintenance.  It just worked. 

I have the good fortune that my boat came with a complete working spare of the original pump. Hopefully I can keep the original running for a long time yet.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Oct 18, 2016, at 07:59, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Danny , Yes my manual pump works great. My foot valve does not leak, at least while I am watching ,over a long time it may.I do not have the original pump , I have a Jabsco , which looks inferior to the original pump. I was wondering if anyone had installed a base and a submersible mounted perhaps a foot above the bottom , occassionally using the manual one to pump out the muck.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi Pat.
Try taking the suction pipe off the pump. Is it full? If not, fill it and see if it stays full. Of course if its not full the foot valve is leaking. The fill and watch will just confirm this.
I have the original pump. If the foot valve is working ie no leak allowing the water in the suction to go down at all, the pump is always full. I struggled trying to fix things at the pump. Now at last I have a foot valve that works and the pump does too. One thing I did was shorten the suction to get it higher above the sediment that gets into the sump and my problems have been much le ss since. Foot valves don't like bits of stuff stuck it them when they try to close. 
However I wish it would self prime like the manual one does. It doesn't even have a foot valve and yet primes perfectly every time and it cheerfully pumps all the muck from the bottom.
Cheers
Danny



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: Amel Owners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123





Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat,
I have wondered about that as a solution too. They are much lower cost. I wonder if they could handle the bits and pieces. If there was an electric version of the manual pump that would be my choice for obvious reasons, ie it is so trouble free.
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2016 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny , Yes my manual pump works great. My foot valve does not leak, at least while I am watching ,over a long time it may.I do not have the original pump , I have a Jabsco , which looks inferior to the original pump. I was wondering if anyone had installed a base and a submersible mounted perhaps a foot above the bottom , occassionally using the manual one to pump out the muck.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi Pat.
Try taking the suction pipe off the pump. Is it full? If not, fill it and see if it stays full. Of course if its not full the foot valve is leaking. The fill and watch will just confirm this.
I have the original pump. If the foot valve is working ie no leak allowing the water in the suction to go down at all, the pump is always full. I struggled trying to fix things at the pump. Now at last I have a foot valve that works and the pump does too. One thing I did was shorten the suction to get it higher above the sediment that gets into the sump and my problems have been much le ss since. Foot valves don't like bits of stuff stuck it them when they try to close.
However I wish it would self prime like the manual one does. It doesn't even have a foot valve and yet primes perfectly every time and it cheerfully pumps all the muck from the bottom.
Cheers
Danny



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Danny, As far as  can determine the foot valve is not leaking, however over a long time it may . I have tried to seal and clamp the hoses as tight as possible. It has always been unreliable .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: Amel Owners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge / Sump pump

 
Hi pat. I battled the bilge pump forever. The key is the foot valve. If you can stop that leaking so the pipe stays full you should have no more trouble. Also ensure there are no leeks in the suction pipe.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On Oct 17, 2016 2:44 AM, "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I have a Jabsco sump pump and have found it unreliable . The motor works fine , I have replaced everything and it still fails to pump water from the bilge every time. I have replaced the joker and flap valves and I have a check valve , but I think over time the pump slowly loses its prime and becomes air bound , when not used for  some time. I have thought about buying a new one and hope it works better . I have looked everywhere and cannot find it . I assume all SMs have the same pump , can someone tell me where I can purchase a new one. Has anyone replaced it with something more reliable ?
Thanks,
Pat SM #123