[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Raw water manifold replacement


greatketch@...
 

Well, OK then.   I guess that ends that discusssion.


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill Kinney,

I think that I clearly gave an opinion.

You have a right to an opinion, also.

I am not going to argue with you because you are far smarter than I am and have much more experience. But, I am sticking with my opinion.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Jan 10, 2017 2:05 PM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

If the zinc wasn't necessary on the Onan it could easily have been replaced with a standard pipe plug, and heat exchangers are easy and (relatively) cheap to have custom made without a zinc fitting.  If those were good ideas, Amel would have done one or the other.


That zinc is needed to protect the materials in the Onan heat exchanger.  It is NOT redundant with the rudder zinc.  If the rudder zinc protected the Onan heat exchanger, why bother to replace the zinc when it dissolved? 

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas


greatketch@...
 

If the zinc wasn't necessary on the Onan it could easily have been replaced with a standard pipe plug, and heat exchangers are easy and (relatively) cheap to have custom made without a zinc fitting.  If those were good ideas, Amel would have done one or the other.

That zinc is needed to protect the materials in the Onan heat exchanger.  It is NOT redundant with the rudder zinc.  If the rudder zinc protected the Onan heat exchanger, why bother to replace the zinc when it dissolved? 

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas


eric freedman
 

Vladimir,

I believe if you look at the heat exchanger on the forward end of the Onan you will find a bolt which is actually a short pencil zinc.

THAT ONE IS IMPORTANT.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2017 11:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Raw water manifold replacement

 

 

Hi Bill,

How did you attach zink to the raw water manifold?
I do not see zinks on the Yanmar or Onan.

Vladimir
SM#345

 

On Jan 9, 2017 10:30 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Don't forget about the zincs in the engine and generator... they are there for the same reason:  the zinc on the rudder is NOT going to protect anything inside the engine room.  



The bonding serves two purposes: to drain off stray currents and protect underwater metals from galvanic corrosion with the zinc.  For parts up inside the engine room connected to the ocean by a hose the galvanic protection available from an external zinc is so close to zero it makes no nevermind, but the stray current protection is still really important. That's why the engine and generator zincs are so important to keep on top of seperate from the rudder zinc.

 

Worst case:  the zinc installed in the manifold dissolves faster than the rudder zinc.  But it is a piece of cake to replace.  And guess what?  If it dissolves quickly, that means it is needed!

 

It sure sounds to me like some of the original manifolds installed had some brazing issues that might have been helped by an installed zinc if they are failing in as little as 8 years.

 

Bill Kinney

SM#160  Harmonie

Rose Island, Bahamas

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

If you place a zinc on the manifold and also leave the manifold connected to the bonding system, that zinc will be the closest zinc to all items in the bonding system and will deteriorate before the rudder zincs.

Yes, it can't hurt, but I would not advise it if the manifold is connected to the bonding system.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

 


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

V,

There is no zinc on your Yanmar engine, but there is a small zinc on the Onan Generator. 

Both the engine and the generator were connected to the Amel bonding system when the boat was manufactured. I believe that the reason that there is a zinc on the Onan is because Amel could not buy the Onan without a zinc.

The Onan zinc is located on the top and port-side back end of the Onan heat exchanger. It looks like a brass bolt. Refer to your manual for more info.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

How did you attach zink to the raw water manifold?
I do not see zinks on the Yanmar or Onan.

Vladimir
SM#345


On Jan 9, 2017 10:30 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Don't forget about the zincs in the engine and generator... they are there for the same reason:  the zinc on the rudder is NOT going to protect anything inside the engine room.  


The bonding serves two purposes: to drain off stray currents and protect underwater metals from galvanic corrosion with the zinc.  For parts up inside the engine room connected to the ocean by a hose the galvanic protection available from an external zinc is so close to zero it makes no nevermind, but the stray current protection is still really important. That's why the engine and generator zincs are so important to keep on top of seperate from the rudder zinc.

Worst case:  the zinc installed in the manifold dissolves faster than the rudder zinc.  But it is a piece of cake to replace.  And guess what?  If it dissolves quickly, that means it is needed!

It sure sounds to me like some of the original manifolds installed had some brazing issues that might have been helped by an installed zinc if they are failing in as little as 8 years.

Bill Kinney
SM#160  Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@...m, wrote :

If you place a zinc on the manifold and also leave the manifold connected to the bonding system, that zinc will be the closest zinc to all items in the bonding system and will deteriorate before the rudder zincs.

Yes, it can't hurt, but I would not advise it if the manifold is connected to the bonding system.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail





VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Thanks to evrybody. Your help is appreciated.

Vladimir
SM#345 "LIFE IS GOOD"


On Jan 9, 2017 11:59 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladimir,


You can't easily add a zinc to an existing manifold.  If you are having a new manifold fabricated, you have an extra 1/4 or 1/8 NPT port added that a standard pencil zinc will thread into.

Most marine engines have zincs on the heat exchanger. I am not sure where Yanmar puts theirs. Volvos (like my engine) are the most common exception to the rule and do not use cooling system zincs on most of their engines.  

The Onan has a pencil zinc on the heat exchanger head on the end of the engine opposite the generator.  If you haven't replaced it in a long time, you will likely need to replace the brass plug as well as the zinc pencil. If you haven't replaced it in a really long time, the brass plug can crumble when you try to remove it and make a simple project a messy one.  And if you don't replace it for a really, REALLY long time, the brass plug can crumble on its own and flood the boat.  

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Hi Bill,

How did you attach zink to the raw water manifold?
I do not see zinks on the Yanmar or Onan.

Vladimir
SM#345




greatketch@...
 

Vladimir,

You can't easily add a zinc to an existing manifold.  If you are having a new manifold fabricated, you have an extra 1/4 or 1/8 NPT port added that a standard pencil zinc will thread into.

Most marine engines have zincs on the heat exchanger. I am not sure where Yanmar puts theirs. Volvos (like my engine) are the most common exception to the rule and do not use cooling system zincs on most of their engines.  

The Onan has a pencil zinc on the heat exchanger head on the end of the engine opposite the generator.  If you haven't replaced it in a long time, you will likely need to replace the brass plug as well as the zinc pencil. If you haven't replaced it in a really long time, the brass plug can crumble when you try to remove it and make a simple project a messy one.  And if you don't replace it for a really, REALLY long time, the brass plug can crumble on its own and flood the boat.  

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@..., <sonsev52@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,

How did you attach zink to the raw water manifold?
I do not see zinks on the Yanmar or Onan.

Vladimir
SM#345




Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

On my Onan, the zinc are on the heat exchanger.

I don’t have any on my engine (Volvo)

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI




--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 1/9/17, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Raw water manifold replacement
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 9, 2017, 10:18 AM


 









Hi Bill,
How did you attach zink to the raw water
manifold?

I do not see zinks on the Yanmar or Onan.
Vladimir

SM#345

On Jan 9, 2017 10:30 AM,
"greatketch@yahoo.com
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 









Don't forget about the zincs in the engine and
generator... they are there for the same reason:  the zinc on the rudder is NOT
going to protect anything inside the engine room.
 
The bonding serves two
purposes: to drain off stray currents and protect underwater
metals from galvanic corrosion with the zinc.  For parts up
inside the engine room connected to the ocean by a hose the
galvanic protection available from an external zinc is so
close to zero it makes no nevermind, but the stray current
protection is still really important. That's why the
engine and generator zincs are so important to keep on top
of seperate from the rudder zinc.
Worst case:  the zinc installed in
the manifold dissolves faster than the rudder zinc.  But it
is a piece of cake to replace.  And guess what?  If it
dissolves quickly, that means it is needed!
It sure sounds to me like some of
the original manifolds installed had some brazing issues
that might have been helped by an installed zinc if they are
failing in as little as 8 years.
Bill
KinneySM#160
 HarmonieRose
Island, Bahamas


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.
com, <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

If you place a zinc on the manifold and also leave
the manifold connected to the bonding system, that zinc will
be the closest zinc to all items in the bonding system and
will deteriorate before the rudder zincs.Yes, it can't hurt, but I would not advise it
if the manifold is connected to the bonding system.Bill Rouse

BeBe Amel 53 #387

Sent from my tablet

+1832-380-4970 USA Voice
Mail
































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VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Hi Bill,

How did you attach zink to the raw water manifold?
I do not see zinks on the Yanmar or Onan.

Vladimir
SM#345


On Jan 9, 2017 10:30 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Don't forget about the zincs in the engine and generator... they are there for the same reason:  the zinc on the rudder is NOT going to protect anything inside the engine room.  


The bonding serves two purposes: to drain off stray currents and protect underwater metals from galvanic corrosion with the zinc.  For parts up inside the engine room connected to the ocean by a hose the galvanic protection available from an external zinc is so close to zero it makes no nevermind, but the stray current protection is still really important. That's why the engine and generator zincs are so important to keep on top of seperate from the rudder zinc.

Worst case:  the zinc installed in the manifold dissolves faster than the rudder zinc.  But it is a piece of cake to replace.  And guess what?  If it dissolves quickly, that means it is needed!

It sure sounds to me like some of the original manifolds installed had some brazing issues that might have been helped by an installed zinc if they are failing in as little as 8 years.

Bill Kinney
SM#160  Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

If you place a zinc on the manifold and also leave the manifold connected to the bonding system, that zinc will be the closest zinc to all items in the bonding system and will deteriorate before the rudder zincs.

Yes, it can't hurt, but I would not advise it if the manifold is connected to the bonding system.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail




greatketch@...
 

Don't forget about the zincs in the engine and generator... they are there for the same reason:  the zinc on the rudder is NOT going to protect anything inside the engine room.  

The bonding serves two purposes: to drain off stray currents and protect underwater metals from galvanic corrosion with the zinc.  For parts up inside the engine room connected to the ocean by a hose the galvanic protection available from an external zinc is so close to zero it makes no nevermind, but the stray current protection is still really important. That's why the engine and generator zincs are so important to keep on top of seperate from the rudder zinc.

Worst case:  the zinc installed in the manifold dissolves faster than the rudder zinc.  But it is a piece of cake to replace.  And guess what?  If it dissolves quickly, that means it is needed!

It sure sounds to me like some of the original manifolds installed had some brazing issues that might have been helped by an installed zinc if they are failing in as little as 8 years.

Bill Kinney
SM#160  Harmonie
Rose Island, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

If you place a zinc on the manifold and also leave the manifold connected to the bonding system, that zinc will be the closest zinc to all items in the bonding system and will deteriorate before the rudder zincs.

Yes, it can't hurt, but I would not advise it if the manifold is connected to the bonding system.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail




Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

If you place a zinc on the manifold and also leave the manifold connected to the bonding system, that zinc will be the closest zinc to all items in the bonding system and will deteriorate before the rudder zincs.

Yes, it can't hurt, but I would not advise it if the manifold is connected to the bonding system.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Jan 8, 2017 7:47 PM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

316 SS is good, 316L is even better--if you can find it.  The key with either is the quality of the welding.


An equally good alternative is to make one from bronze pipe fittings. The exact shape isn't critical, and the parts are easily found.  You do have to be careful that ALL the pieces are REAL bronze.  Some places carry brass fittings under the catalog heading of bronze and using those would be bad...

Putting a zinc in can't hurt with either stainless or bronze.  The grounding wire will help protect from stray current corrosion, but the boat's zinc is way too far away to protect the piece from internal galvanic corrosion. 

Properly made, and protected from stray current problems, either stainless or bronze should outlast the boat.

Bill Kinney
S/V Harmonie SM#160
Rose Island, Bahamas