[Amel Yacht Owners] Introduction from Utah
Welcome aboard Chuck and Kim! You will find this forum a great resource for all the inevitable questions before and after you purchase your dream boat. If you haven't already, take some time and browse the conversations, photos and files sections. You will start to get a sense of some of the common issues and how to avoid/troubleshoot/repair them. Search conversations for Bill Rouse BeBe, Danny Ocean Pearl, and Alexandre NIKIMAT (there are many many others who contribute greatly, but you have to start somewhere) for great discussions and detailed descriptions and pics of how to do many maintenance an repair jobs. What model are you most interested in? When do you hope/plan to slip the dock lines? Be especially careful of boats that have significant modifications from the original Amel design. And especially the electrical systems. The design varies from what most boats have, and changing it can have serious consequences. Get a surveyor who is thoroughly familiar with Amels when the time comes. There are some recent discussions about this with recommendations for Amel surveyors. Again, welcome and best of luck in your search! Kent Kristy SM243 On Jan 12, 2017, at 12:03 PM, clacey9@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Greetings All and Happy New Year, I am new to the group and not yet an Amel owner. My wife and I love the Amels and hopefully will own one this year. I believe I have paid my dues as a husband, father, uncle, son and corporate man and have left everyone happy in my wake. I am retiring a bit early (in society's eyes) and hope to spend many years with my wife of 30 years exploring this big wonderful world. I am sitting at work now in a snow storm doing a bit of day dreaming. Oh well back at! Take care to all, be safe and enjoy your day. Chuck & Kim Stuck in Utah Dreaming
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Thank you for the warm welcome Kent,
I have been lurking for quite some time and have enjoyed the interactions (from afar). I have also followed a few blogs from members here. I guess the first question is: Is this type of yacht too complicated with too many intricate systems to manage. Are Amels anymore more complicated than any other comparable yacht with similar features. I have read for years of the KISS principle and agree but that also conflicts with my other want and that is to sail and liveaboard in somewhat safety and comfort. This boats checks almost all the boxes (I do have a spreadsheet and there are boxes). |
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If another boat has the amenities present on Amels, there will be the same kinds of problems, Chuck. If an autopilot or reefer or AC fails, you're going to have to go thru the same troubleshooting, parts acquisition, and repairs. Amels are French boats and are set up in European electrical style with 220v50Hz appliances and 24v motors, etc. They can be a bit harder to source than 110v60Hz or 12vDC, but this forum is great for learning where others have sourced them. The bonding system is significantly different from most other boats and electricians on this side of the pond won't understand it. They'll want you to conform to ABYC standards, and if you aren't there while they're doing something, they'll hook it up by some method other than the Amel way. That can lead to problems. Some proprietary parts are only available from Amel and expensive, but they're worth it! One of the really great things about Amels is this forum. Kristy is my first sailboat and my first big boat. I was totally clueless about how to troubleshoot or repair anything. The folks here took me by the hand and very patiently walked me thru things step by step. If it hadn't been for them I'd have given up after a few years. Now, 8 years later, I've learned to find and repair most things that go wrong. I can post a question here and get an answer in a few hours. I spent a ton of money paying mechanics and electricians to learn my boat and try to teach me, only to find out later they really didn't "get" Amels. In retrospect, I'd have been better off flying in someone like Olivier to teach me and the electrician what and why. If I can do it, anyone can. As to the KISS principle, it's up to the individual to decide how important all the different amenities are. I would find it difficult to be living aboard a boat without them. The only thing I don't use regularly is the dishwasher. Kent Kristy SM243 On Jan 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, clacey9@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Thank you for the warm welcome Kent, I have been lurking for quite some time and have enjoyed the interactions (from afar). I have also followed a few blogs from members here. I guess the first question is: Is this type of yacht too complicated with too many intricate systems to manage. Are Amels anymore more complicated than any other comparable yacht with similar features. I have read for years of the KISS principle and agree but that also conflicts with my other want and that is to sail and liveaboard in somewhat safety and comfort. This boats checks almost all the boxes (I do have a spreadsheet and there are boxes).
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Joel Potter is the best Amel source in the US Cheers Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Chuck Lacey clacey9@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> Date: 1/12/17 5:32 PM (GMT-05:00) To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Introduction from Utah Thanks for the quick reply, That is comforting to know as this will out first boat too. I am handy around the house and car (thanks to youtube university:) so hopefully some of that will translate. I will take your advice to heart as you have been there. I know there are some great resources in the group and look forward to contributing myself someday. A nice atmosphere overall in the group. I don't want to use up all my 'help chits' yet so one more quick one. For looking and purchasing would you advise going it alone or getting a buyer's broker or a couple of them (maybe one in the states and one in europe/med) to do the footwork and set it all up. I know they do it a little different in europe. I want to save as much as possible without the middle men but that could end up costing me in the long run. All I can do now is read-read-read and try and educate myself on the process. It seems the most Amels for sale are in France. Anyway don't want to bend your ear all the way off the first day I will have years to do that. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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I had a broker and the seller had a broker, neither of which know a thing about Amels. The owner wasn't involved in the sale, nor did he spend any time with me explaining things. Big mistake. If I were to do it again, I would get Joel Potter in the US or the guy in Europe that is so highly recommended (sorry I don't remember his name, it's been mentioned several times here). I would make a 4-7 day period of one on one education part of the purchase price.
I got lucky when Craig Briggs (Sangaris) volunteered to help me bring the boat from Galveston to Ft Lauderdale on my first sail. He taught me more in that few days than I would have learned in a year on my own. Thanks again Craig!!! Kent Kristy SM243 |
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Kent,
I agree wholeheartedly, except for one thing: we love the dishwasher. We run our dinner dishes in the evening with the end of the day battery charge and make hot water for showers. It is going to be a very sad day on our boat when the dishwasher dies since replacements are not available. We just changed out the heating element and giving it a burst of new life.
Chuck & Kim (stuck in Utah),
The systems on Amel boats are not really that more complicated than other vessels of this size. The biggest difference with Amel is you can get to the systems. Let me emphasize: "you can get to the systems". And, Amel did a fantastic job over the years of fine-tuning the assortment of parts to ensure longevity and reliability. Our Amel is now 17 years old. We can still buy parts from Amel and many of our systems are original. Amel will ship world-wide. If we do have to replace something, we try very hard to use the same brand and model that was installed by the Amel factory (else we get guidance on this forum). For example, we recently replaced the guts of our refrigerator. The Frigoboat units were still available and it was a swap out of the condenser (icebox), thermostat and compressor. We kept the fridge box as it was very high quality stainless and the wood facade door matched the African mahogany aboard. No drilling new holes or re-engineering required. The fridge is removed by taking out 3 thumbs screws. The whole unit can then be placed atop the washer/dryer without having to disconnect anything. The whole project took less than half a day. Plug and play! On our previous boat it would have taken a day to just remove the old parts. It would have taken a cabinet maker to install the new parts. Once you have owned an Amel, every day you appreciate the nuances of the brand. Things like running an antenna cable from the nav-station to the lazarette can be done in a few minutes. On other boats, this is an all day project. Having an engine room I can stand up in and access 4 sides of the engine and genset is heaven. Have you ever tried to change out a starter while lying on your stomach and unscrewing bolts by brail? I have. I'm glad those days are gone.
I would encourage you to go look at an Island Packet 485. This is the finest example of good ideas gone bad. Look at the engine and ask yourself how you could ever replace it. It would take a master cabinet maker and you would have to cut a huge hole in the cockpit floor. The boat is built around the engine. Crazy stupid. Look at the size of the nav-station and how much boat real-estate is given to it. ask yourself how often you sit at the nave station. Things like this are common place amongst other boat manufacturers. Amel didn't get everything right but they did way better than most.
Hope this helps push you over the ledge to buy an Amel and leave the snow in the rear view mirror.
And, call Joel Potter. You'll be glad you did.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff SM2K #275 - Currently cruising: Key West, FL (stuck waiting for weather!)
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
If another boat has the amenities present on Amels, there will be the same kinds of problems, Chuck. If an autopilot or reefer or AC fails, you're going to have to go thru the same troubleshooting, parts acquisition, and repairs. Amels are French boats and are set up in European electrical style with 220v50Hz appliances and 24v motors, etc. They can be a bit harder to source than 110v60Hz or 12vDC, but this forum is great for learning where others have sourced them. The bonding system is significantly different from most other boats and electricians on this side of the pond won't understand it. They'll want you to conform to ABYC standards, and if you aren't there while they're doing something, they'll hook it up by some method other than the Amel way. That can lead to problems.
Some proprietary parts are only available from Amel and expensive, but they're worth it!
One of the really great things
about Amels is this forum. Kristy is my first sailboat and my first big
boat. I was totally clueless about how to troubleshoot or repair
anything. The folks here took me by the hand and very patiently walked me
thru things step by step. If it hadn't been for them I'd have given up
after a few years. Now, 8 years later, I've learned to find and repair
most things that go wrong. I can post a question here and get an answer
in a few hours. I spent a ton of money paying mechanics and electricians
to learn my boat and try to teach me, only to find out later they really didn't
"get" Amels. In retrospect, I'd have been better off flying in
someone like Olivier to teach me and the electrician what and why.
Kent Kristy SM243
Thank you for the warm welcome Kent, I have been lurking for quite some time and have enjoyed the interactions (from afar). I have also followed a few blogs from members here. I guess the first question is: Is this type of yacht too complicated with too many intricate systems to manage. Are Amels anymore more complicated than any other comparable yacht with similar features. I have read for years of the KISS principle and agree but that also conflicts with my other want and that is to sail and liveaboard in somewhat safety and comfort. This boats checks almost all the boxes (I do have a spreadsheet and there are boxes).
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Hey Kent,
Thanks for the kind words. I do hope that by now you've got all those items on "Craig's List" fixed up!!! Kidding aside and having been aboard Kristy several years after that initial sail, she is a beaut! From an engineer, I must say I'm very impressed at how well you swing a wrench, ....well, for a Medical Doctor! Cheers, Craig SN#68 Sangaris ---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote : I had a broker and the seller had a broker, neither of which know a thing about Amels. The owner wasn't involved in the sale, nor did he spend any time with me explaining things. Big mistake. If I were to do it again, I would get Joel Potter in the US or the guy in Europe that is so highly recommended (sorry I don't remember his name, it's been mentioned several times here). I would make a 4-7 day period of one on one education part of the purchase price. I got lucky when Craig Briggs (Sangaris) volunteered to help me bring the boat from Galveston to Ft Lauderdale on my first sail. He taught me more in that few days than I would have learned in a year on my own. Thanks again Craig!!! Kent Kristy SM243 |
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Hi Craig! Hope you and Katherine are well. Where y'at? Kent |
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Hi All,
Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail it helps tremendously! Two quick questions. I have read of Monsieur Amel's vision regarding his design and light handed sailing. Have you ever said to yourself "This craft is too large for us" if so in what aspect. Sailing, maintenance, housekeeping, storage-haul out, slip fees. One other question. Have you ever said "I wish I had a shallower draft". Has the draft of the SM kept you away of spoiled your days? Do you have regrets with either of these. Do you just deal with it, embrace it or indifferent. I know these are basic questions but this will be our largest and deepest draft boat to date. Best Regards, Chuck |
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I haven't had the experience with a shower draft or smaller boat, Chuck. That may make it easier for me to live with the deeper draft of my SM. The Bahamas are known as a shallow draft venue, but there are lots of great places I can go. I can get into the ICW many places, but not use it to transit N & S. I wouldn't likely do that anyway. Even single-handing, I have never thought it was too much boat for me. If you go much smaller you will lose the genset, that's a deal breaker for me. I often have 2-4 guests aboard, and the SM is great for that, any more and I start to get a little claustrophobic. The difference in dockage or storage between a 45' and a 53' is 15%. I've never thought that was significant, since I'm almost always at anchor. I bought Kristy to do blue water sailing. I don't believe I could find a better boat for that purpose. Kent |
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Hi Chuck,
I have sailed our Amel single handedly many times. People such as Kent and Alexandre can speak to this better than I, but I think the Amel is a breeze for a solo sailor. One of the reasons we purchased an Amel is either one of us can reef sails single handedly and never leave the cockpit. This is a huge safety factor when at sea. I can sleep knowing Cindy is safe in the cockpit and can adjust sails as needed. This was also a big comfort factor for her when considering which boat to purchase. I would challenge you to look at other designs of boats and ask yourself, how easy is it for one person to reef? In many cases, it is not possible.
I have never thought our Amel was too big. If fact, we think the opposite. Amel is so well designed we do not feel it is big at all. Some marinas and moorings in the USA charge extra for boats over 50'. We just say "see ya" and stay elsewhere. We have never been at a loss for a place to stay. For the most part, businesses are willing to take our money. You have probably noticed the draft and mast height are not Intracoastal friendly. But, if you want to travel the eastern Intracoastal Waterway buy a power boat (you are going to have to motor the entire way anyway). We have sailed eastern US and went outside. It is easier, faster and in my opinion much safer.
We recently sailed the Bahamas, an area notorious for shallow waters. When we told other cruisers we draw about 7' they give us the "oh my" face. If you are looking for a shallow draft boat, buy a cat. When you draw 2' you can get into places off limits to mono-hulls. IMO there is not much difference between a 6' draft and a 7' draft when sailing shallow waters. A 7' foot draft usually means you are just going to run aground one minute before the 6' draft. For the most part we try to stay in 10', or more. In our entire Bahamas cruise, there were only two places we opted not to enter. We thought we were deep draft in the Bahamas until we met someone with a 9' draft. They had been to all the placed we visited.
The real question you have to ask yourself, is do you want a safe proven blue water cruising boat, or something else. We opted to purchase a boat that we knew would take us anywhere in the world with comfort and safety. If you start making sacrifices such as less draft or lower mast height, you are giving up some of the characteristics that make Amels awesome blue water cruisers.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff SM2K #275 - Currently cruising: Key West, FL (stuck waiting for weather!)
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Hi All, Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail it helps tremendously! Two quick questions. I have read of Monsieur Amel's vision regarding his design and light handed sailing. Have you ever said to yourself "This craft is too large for us" if so in what aspect. Sailing, maintenance, housekeeping, storage-haul out, slip fees. One other question. Have you ever said "I wish I had a shallower draft". Has the draft of the SM kept you away of spoiled your days? Do you have regrets with either of these. Do you just deal with it, embrace it or indifferent. I know these are basic questions but this will be our largest and deepest draft boat to date.
Best Regards, Chuck
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Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...>
Dear Chuck,
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Sorry, been busy with business related issue (almost done), so just going to echo what Mark wrote so that you have more feedback, sorry not to elaborate. 90% of the time I single hand and no issue. Even having a tendency to reef a little too late, always good. Sure the wind will either be your friend or opponent when docking solo. Never though it is too big. Because of my work, I stay in marinas, I usually pay around $600/month (there was exceptions), will be happy to share which price and where I paid. Sure the larger the vessel the more expensive will be the maintenance. Standing or running rigging on the SM will be more than on the Santorin and Maramu I spent 15 months in the Bahamas and draft was limiting, but not an issue. In Grand Bahama I had to wait to be between low and mid tide to enter, no issue in the Berry, Nassau, Exumas, Turks & Caicos, etc. but I decided to skip the Abacos because of the draft. If I had to do it again, I would pick a newer SM2K, they have more batteries capacity, etc. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1/13/17, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Introduction from Utah To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Friday, January 13, 2017, 12:22 PM Hi Chuck, I have sailed our Amel single handedly many times. People such as Kent and Alexandre can speak to this better than I, but I think the Amel is a breeze for a solo sailor. One of the reasons we purchased an Amel is either one of us can reef sails single handedly and never leave the cockpit. This is a huge safety factor when at sea. I can sleep knowing Cindy is safe in the cockpit and can adjust sails as needed. This was also a big comfort factor for her when considering which boat to purchase. I would challenge you to look at other designs of boats and ask yourself, how easy is it for one person to reef? In many cases, it is not possible. I have never thought our Amel was too big. If fact, we think the opposite. Amel is so well designed we do not feel it is big at all. Some marinas and moorings in the USA charge extra for boats over 50'. We just say "see ya" and stay elsewhere. We have never been at a loss for a place to stay. For the most part, businesses are willing to take our money. You have probably noticed the draft and mast height are not Intracoastal friendly. But, if you want to travel the eastern Intracoastal Waterway buy a power boat (you are going to have to motor the entire way anyway). We have sailed eastern US and went outside. It is easier, faster and in my opinion much safer. We recently sailed the Bahamas, an area notorious for shallow waters. When we told other cruisers we draw about 7' they give us the "oh my" face. If you are looking for a shallow draft boat, buy a cat. When you draw 2' you can get into places off limits to mono-hulls. IMO there is not much difference between a 6' draft and a 7' draft when sailing shallow waters. A 7' foot draft usually means you are just going to run aground one minute before the 6' draft. For the most part we try to stay in 10', or more. In our entire Bahamas cruise, there were only two places we opted not to enter. We thought we were deep draft in the Bahamas until we met someone with a 9' draft. They had been to all the placed we visited. The real question you have to ask yourself, is do you want a safe proven blue water cruising boat, or something else. We opted to purchase a boat that we knew would take us anywhere in the world with comfort and safety. If you start making sacrifices such as less draft or lower mast height, you are giving up some of the characteristics that make Amels awesome blue water cruisers. With best regards, Mark Skipper Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff SM2K #275 - Currently cruising: Key West, FL (stuck waiting for weather!) www.creampuff.us From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:59 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Introduction from Utah Hi All, Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail it helps tremendously! Two quick questions. I have read of Monsieur Amel's vision regarding his design and light handed sailing. Have you ever said to yourself "This craft is too large for us" if so in what aspect. Sailing, maintenance, housekeeping, storage-haul out, slip fees. One other question. Have you ever said "I wish I had a shallower draft". Has the draft of the SM kept you away of spoiled your days? Do you have regrets with either of these. Do you just deal with it, embrace it or indifferent. I know these are basic questions but this will be our largest and deepest draft boat to date. Best Regards, Chuck |
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Hi Chuck Everything already said here is 100% correct in our opinion. Island Pearl II is our 7th cruising sail boat, so we have tried many, including both smaller and shallower draft yachts. We also did a lot of chartering and generally picked large cats for that as we often took family or friends along and generally chartered in reasonably safe waters, but we certainly wouldn't want one for ocean crossings (just our opinion/preference). Your questions were exactly the same ones we had before purchasing an Amel Super Maramu 2000, and none of them have ever turned out to be an issue for us since. Recently I assisted a friend sail his newly aqcuired Amel Santorin from Brisbane to Auckland which tends to be a pretty rough upwind passage. I have to say that I was also impressed with the Santorin's capability on a tough passage. She was certainly up to the task and just a little shorter and shallower draft, and obviously missing the things you pay extra for in the SM such as the generator, washer dryer, dishwasher, larger galley storage etc.etc.., but a wonderful boat if you wanted to go a bit smaller and did not need/want the extra luxuries and space, definitely the best 46ft I've ever sailed for sure. We couldn't be happier with anything else. Also a point not made yet is the tremendous support from this group. We never feel alone when facing any maintenance and/or upgrade decisions. This is a fantastic group of like minded sailors who care about their boats and are always share experiences and advice. With the Amel brand not supported/sold in Australia before 2015, we often worried about where we would get repairs, parts, servicing etc done in Australia. However since Captain Henry Amel was so pedantic about making each of these high quality ocean boats all precisely the same, even down to the odd colour curtains etc., and would never entertain any level of customization for anyone, regardless of what amount was offered, we have all ended up in a really great position where, if ever you have a problem or thought of upgrading something further, there will always be 10 or more others out there in this group who have actually already experienced/done that. With our previous brands, although all but one were sold new in Australia, none of them had anywhere near the same level of comprehensive support as from this group. Good luck with your search and we hope to see you on the water in an Amel some day. Like us we suspect you will never regret it. Colin & Lauren Streeter Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332 Brisbane On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:48 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Colin Streeter 0411 016 445 |
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