[Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?


SV Perigee
 

Hi Porter,

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

CAT = 
- hobby-horsing
- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem
- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail
- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

Hope this helps you in your quest,

Blue skies,

David
Novice Boat Owner
PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.


Could you lend me your thoughts?

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

Its very much appreciated.

Thank you again Porter















Steve Bell s/y Dusk SM378
 


Just my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above 15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail contracts.

As everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of pro's and con's , want's and need's and what you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and the goal posts keep moving.

But if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the leopards.

South Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hi Porter,

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

CAT = 
- hobby-horsing
- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem
- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail
- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

Hope this helps you in your quest,

Blue skies,

David
Novice Boat Owner
PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 
Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.


Could you lend me your thoughts?

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

Its very much appreciated.

Thank you again Porter

















Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 




On Feb 13, 2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Just my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above 15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail contracts.

As everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of pro's and con's , want's and need's and what you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and the goal posts keep moving.

But if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the leopards.

South Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hi Porter,

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

CAT = 
- hobby-horsing
- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem
- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail
- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

Hope this helps you in your quest,

Blue skies,

David
Novice Boat Owner
PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.


Could you lend me your thoughts?

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

Its very much appreciated.

Thank you again Porter

















Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Porter,

The Amel 54 I visited had 2 windlasses.
I don’t have solar, I don’t think you can get “too much”.
My SM2K has 2 auto-pilot drive (Rotary on the Wheel and Lineary on the rudder), so I would guess the 54 has 2 as well.
Now, there is only 1 computers (on the SM2K), so would be wise to have a spare.
4 year circumnavigation seems fast…
My trip is atypical because I have 2 businesses I manage from my boat, so I go very slow, but I try to visit everything. When I was in Dominican Republic, baots would arrive, then 2 days later leave… not visit anything… there was so much to visit there… same for Puerto Rico, another often skip place with lots to visit (Camuy cave, Arecibo observatory, rain forest, old town, fort, Bacardi distillery, etc.).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI




--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 2/13/17, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 13, 2017, 11:04 AM


 









I am so grateful for all the responses!
 We sailed
this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54.
Loved it. What an adventure machine!  Thank you guys for your
thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does
my beloved that we're making the right
choice. 
I do have a few other
questions if you would bear them:
One windlass or
2?
How much solar is
enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?
Is one autopilot enough
or is a backup the way to go?
The plan is a 4 year
circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 
You guys are such a
great crew and I really appreciate it. 
Porter
McRoberts. 


Sent
from my iPhone
On Feb 13,
2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@yahoo.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
















 







Just
my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a
Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down
waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came
through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above
15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to
have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull
like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a
lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail
contracts.
As
everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of
pro's and con's , want's and need's and what
you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy
decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and
the goal posts keep moving.
But
if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the
leopards.
South
Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the
exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1
February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@yahoo.com
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



 










Hi Porter,
Ahh, the
dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a
few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . .
So you are well ahead of the curve.
Ours was a choice between
'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono
sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420)
trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French
Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to
check it out.  We concluded, as others have
reported:
CAT
= - hobby-horsing- noisy and banging
and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about
structural integrity, but this never proved to be a
problem- could not get used to not being able to
'feel' the boat under sail- relying
accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than
tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks
Positives of a cat: as said,
privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters
(when two engines running, otherwise . . . .
 )
Speed under way
was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the
kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were
consdering.
Ultimately, it was for us it the
ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was
the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission
statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water
cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners
being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound
athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one
propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about
when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the
option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead
us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and
flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  =
Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring
also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of
sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls,
with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we
had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to
discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic'
aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but
nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was
made.
As was most of
the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the
wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums
(physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited
other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our
choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then,
did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in
on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months
back.
That is our
story.  I know everyone has their own path, and
prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But
your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water,
short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be
roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better
than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire'
to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may
well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a
well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other
'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story
for a, hopefully, much later time.
Hope this helps you in your
quest,
Blue
skies,
DavidNovice Boat
OwnerPERIGEE, SM#396, MartiniqueSent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@gmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
 









Let me
start by again thanking you for all your help along the
way.
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54
 and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for
a long time now.  
Recently a friend and long time
sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht
commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
Having lived on my own
sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I
highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the
one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!You get twice the space, 2 engines,
they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in
many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The
salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you
don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always
sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one
again just because of not being able to relax more like you
can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you
usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the
marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The
best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and
relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The
Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are
with much more inside and outside space.  If you have not tried one, I think
you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the
BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!
 You are
about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.
 I just don't want you to jump into it without trying
all the options available. I have spent years and thousands
of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again
with the great Catamaran options that are out
there. 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I
making the right choice?I was pretty certain i was until the
above response.

Could you lend me your
thoughts?
Were a family of four with plans for
an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.
 Am i
making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he
makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one
and goes with it.  
Its very much
appreciated.
Thank you again Porter


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,

My opinions:

Windlass
Doesn't your 54 have two windlasses? We just sold BeBe, a SM #387. The single Lofranz windlass was in perfect condition. It had ben regularly maintained. During our 40,000 miles, the only time the second anchor got wet is when we "thought" the Wasi Bugel anchor was dragging...it wasn't. If you have a single windlass and plan a circumnavigation, I would stock common spare parts.

Solar
I think that enough solar is around 400 watts which should keep your battery bank of 12 batteries from being depleted during hours that you have sunlight. It would take about 800-1000 watts of solar and a a battery bank of at least 640 amps of 24VDC to be independent and comfortable, but there probably is not room for that. And, with 400 watts of solar you will find that you will run your generator about 1 to 2 hours every other day and at that time you can wash clothes and/or make water...and charge your batteries.

Autopilot 
It is a fact that there is a 10% chance that you will lose autopilot function on an ocean crossing. If you have a single autopilot, invest in all of the spare components to replace any component failure. At the very least, buy used components on eBay, then sell them again when you have completed. The difference between purchase and sale should be considered "rent."

Length of Circumnavigation
We did it in 11 years and we sometimes felt like we should have spent more time. I will never understand people who do it in two years unless they want to get it over quickly...maybe they don't enjoy it? The enjoyment of a circumnavigation is meeting new people and experiencing new cultures...in fact, that was our reason and we visited 58 countries. If someone wants to sail a lot of miles in a hurry, they should sail the Atlantic or Pacific in a circle.

Good luck,

Bill
ex-BeBe 387
Currently Galveston, Texas


On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 




On Feb 13, 2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Just my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above 15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail contracts.

As everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of pro's and con's , want's and need's and what you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and the goal posts keep moving.

But if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the leopards.

South Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Hi Porter,

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

CAT = 
- hobby-horsing
- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem
- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail
- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

Hope this helps you in your quest,

Blue skies,

David
Novice Boat Owner
PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.


Could you lend me your thoughts?

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

Its very much appreciated.

Thank you again Porter


















amelforme
 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 12:04 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

I am so grateful for all the responses!  

We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  

Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

 

One windlass or 2? The second windlass was optional equipment on the 54. As I have seen plenty of Amel 54’s at survey, where deficiencies are exposed, often a shiny/as new looking second windlass on deck was an oxidized inoperable hunk of scrap internally/below deck. Why? They seldom get used and inactivity is the worst thing for almost everything. If you have a second windlass, put it into rotation often and give it the exercise it requires. And test it hard at survey.

 

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much? I have seen 54’s with 300 watts and one with 600 watts. While both should be considered supplemental, 300 watts is helpful and 600 watts really useful. The flat plate area of solar panels has to be carefully considered prior to installation to yield optimum output yet being able to be well secured when the weather is your enemy.

 

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go? The second autopilot drive motor is an option. I equipped every 53 and 54 Amel I ever sold new with both and never had one complaint from any owner. It’s not just redundancy, which can be enough reward in itself. Amel prototypes all optional equipment installations on these models and then goes through a rigorous testing program. It was discovered that when run 12 hours on/12 hours off ( running the one on the wheel steering rack in the galley at night so the one under your berth in the aft cabin wasn’t making electrical rodent imitations, and running the one under the aft berth during daylight to give the other one a rest ) made BOTH units last longer as they never got too hot, even when steering intensely in bad weather. Heat is a big enemy of  electric motors. Use your infra red thermometer to check temps on units that have been working hard for 12 hours or more.

 

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. The average for my clients who circumnavigated was a bit more than 7. Some people on a mission to get ‘er done screwed up the curve. I sold my brother a Maramu that did it in 18 months as Madame Admiral was ill whenever the anchor was up and secured but promised her husband when he retired , she would go around the world with him. He rewarded her by dropping dead the month they got home. He was a really cool and interesting retired Swiss air force pilot who simply had done everything on his bucket list. I can’t make this stuff up… 

 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it.And none of us have much of an opinion about nothin’ 

 

Porter McRoberts.

 

Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 

 

 



On Feb 13, 2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Just my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above 15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail contracts.

 

As everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of pro's and con's , want's and need's and what you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and the goal posts keep moving.

 

But if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the leopards.

 

South Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the exchange rate.

 

On Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Porter,

 

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

 

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

 

CAT = 

- hobby-horsing

- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem

- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail

- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

 

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

 

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

 

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

 

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

 

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

 

Hope this helps you in your quest,

 

Blue skies,

 

David

Novice Boat Owner

PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

 

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

 

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

 

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!

You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  

If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  

You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?

I was pretty certain i was until the above response.

 

 

Could you lend me your thoughts?

 

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  

Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

 

Its very much appreciated.

 

Thank you again Porter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

Really appreciated Bill 
For everything!
Great advice on everything. 
We cannot really determine the time for the trip. 
We've got 2 girls. One ready for college in 4. The other in 7. I'm voting for 7+ but then again I'm not old enough to retire. I've got to work for those college educations  we'll have to see how the crew does. That's the 2 year option that I hope never materializes!

We'll see. I think they'll all be blown away. Me too. And that will resolve any issue. 

I've just joined the forum recently and can't imagine what it would be with out you already. Best of luck in any endeavor. And thanks again for always your great help. 

Porter



On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:44 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

My opinions:

Windlass
Doesn't your 54 have two windlasses? We just sold BeBe, a SM #387. The single Lofranz windlass was in perfect condition. It had ben regularly maintained. During our 40,000 miles, the only time the second anchor got wet is when we "thought" the Wasi Bugel anchor was dragging...it wasn't. If you have a single windlass and plan a circumnavigation, I would stock common spare parts.

Solar
I think that enough solar is around 400 watts which should keep your battery bank of 12 batteries from being depleted during hours that you have sunlight. It would take about 800-1000 watts of solar and a a battery bank of at least 640 amps of 24VDC to be independent and comfortable, but there probably is not room for that. And, with 400 watts of solar you will find that you will run your generator about 1 to 2 hours every other day and at that time you can wash clothes and/or make water...and charge your batteries.

Autopilot 
It is a fact that there is a 10% chance that you will lose autopilot function on an ocean crossing. If you have a single autopilot, invest in all of the spare components to replace any component failure. At the very least, buy used components on eBay, then sell them again when you have completed. The difference between purchase and sale should be considered "rent."

Length of Circumnavigation
We did it in 11 years and we sometimes felt like we should have spent more time. I will never understand people who do it in two years unless they want to get it over quickly...maybe they don't enjoy it? The enjoyment of a circumnavigation is meeting new people and experiencing new cultures...in fact, that was our reason and we visited 58 countries. If someone wants to sail a lot of miles in a hurry, they should sail the Atlantic or Pacific in a circle.

Good luck,

Bill
ex-BeBe 387
Currently Galveston, Texas


On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 




On Feb 13, 2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Just my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above 15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail contracts.

As everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of pro's and con's , want's and need's and what you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and the goal posts keep moving.

But if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the leopards.

South Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Hi Porter,

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

CAT = 
- hobby-horsing
- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem
- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail
- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

Hope this helps you in your quest,

Blue skies,

David
Novice Boat Owner
PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.


Could you lend me your thoughts?

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

Its very much appreciated.

Thank you again Porter


















Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

Thanks Alexandre. Does seem fast doesn't it!

Anyone know the weight of a windlass more or less?

Anyone use both often?

Thanks agin
Porter


On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

The Amel 54 I visited had 2 windlasses.
I don’t have solar, I don’t think you can get “too much”.
My SM2K has 2 auto-pilot drive (Rotary on the Wheel and Lineary on the rudder), so I would guess the 54 has 2 as well.
Now, there is only 1 computers (on the SM2K), so would be wise to have a spare.
4 year circumnavigation seems fast…
My trip is atypical because I have 2 businesses I manage from my boat, so I go very slow, but I try to visit everything. When I was in Dominican Republic, baots would arrive, then 2 days later leave… not visit anything… there was so much to visit there… same for Puerto Rico, another often skip place with lots to visit (Camuy cave, Arecibo observatory, rain forest, old town, fort, Bacardi distillery, etc.).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/13/17, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, February 13, 2017, 11:04 AM


 









I am so grateful for all the responses!
 We sailed
this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54.
Loved it. What an adventure machine!  Thank you guys for your
thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does
my beloved that we're making the right
choice. 
I do have a few other
questions if you would bear them:
One windlass or
2?
How much solar is
enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?
Is one autopilot enough
or is a backup the way to go?
The plan is a 4 year
circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 
You guys are such a
great crew and I really appreciate it. 
Porter
McRoberts. 


Sent
from my iPhone
On Feb 13,
2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 







Just
my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a
Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down
waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came
through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above
15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to
have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull
like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a
lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail
contracts.
As
everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of
pro's and con's , want's and need's and what
you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy
decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and
the goal posts keep moving.
But
if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the
leopards.
South
Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the
exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1
February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



 










Hi Porter,
Ahh, the
dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a
few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . .
So you are well ahead of the curve.
Ours was a choice between
'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono
sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420)
trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French
Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to
check it out.  We concluded, as others have
reported:
CAT
= - hobby-horsing- noisy and banging
and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about
structural integrity, but this never proved to be a
problem- could not get used to not being able to
'feel' the boat under sail- relying
accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than
tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks
Positives of a cat: as said,
privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters
(when two engines running, otherwise . . . .
 )
Speed under way
was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the
kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were
consdering.
Ultimately, it was for us it the
ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was
the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission
statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water
cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners
being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound
athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one
propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about
when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the
option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead
us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and
flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  =
Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring
also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of
sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls,
with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we
had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to
discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic'
aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but
nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was
made.
As was most of
the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the
wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums
(physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited
other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our
choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then,
did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in
on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months
back.
That is our
story.  I know everyone has their own path, and
prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But
your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water,
short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be
roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better
than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire'
to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may
well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a
well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other
'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story
for a, hopefully, much later time.
Hope this helps you in your
quest,
Blue
skies,
DavidNovice Boat
OwnerPERIGEE, SM#396, MartiniqueSent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
 









Let me
start by again thanking you for all your help along the
way.
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54
 and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for
a long time now.  
Recently a friend and long time
sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht
commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
Having lived on my own
sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I
highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the
one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!You get twice the space, 2 engines,
they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in
many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The
salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you
don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always
sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one
again just because of not being able to relax more like you
can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you
usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the
marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The
best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and
relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The
Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are
with much more inside and outside space.  If you have not tried one, I think
you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the
BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!
 You are
about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.
 I just don't want you to jump into it without trying
all the options available. I have spent years and thousands
of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again
with the great Catamaran options that are out
there. 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I
making the right choice?I was pretty certain i was until the
above response.

Could you lend me your
thoughts?
Were a family of four with plans for
an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.
 Am i
making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he
makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one
and goes with it.  
Its very much
appreciated.
Thank you again Porter







eric freedman
 

Hi Porter,

What boat do you have? Most of us post the boat type and hull number.

With respect to a second windlass, I have never had 2 anchors off the bow. Very infrequently I had to set an anchor off the stern. I have had Kimberlite for almost 15 years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

lto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:58 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

Thanks Alexandre. Does seem fast doesn't it!

 

Anyone know the weight of a windlass more or less?

 

Anyone use both often?

 

Thanks agin

Porter



On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

The Amel 54 I visited had 2 windlasses.
I don’t have solar, I don’t think you can get “too much”.
My SM2K has 2 auto-pilot drive (Rotary on the Wheel and Lineary on the rudder), so I would guess the 54 has 2 as well.
Now, there is only 1 computers (on the SM2K), so would be wise to have a spare.
4 year circumnavigation seems fast…
My trip is atypical because I have 2 businesses I manage from my boat, so I go very slow, but I try to visit everything. When I was in Dominican Republic, baots would arrive, then 2 days later leave… not visit anything… there was so much to visit there… same for Puerto Rico, another often skip place with lots to visit (Camuy cave, Arecibo observatory, rain forest, old town, fort, Bacardi distillery, etc.).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/13/17, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, February 13, 2017, 11:04 AM


 









I am so grateful for all the responses!
 We sailed
this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54.
Loved it. What an adventure machine!  Thank you guys for your
thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does
my beloved that we're making the right
choice. 
I do have a few other
questions if you would bear them:
One windlass or
2?
How much solar is
enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?
Is one autopilot enough
or is a backup the way to go?
The plan is a 4 year
circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 
You guys are such a
great crew and I really appreciate it. 
Porter
McRoberts. 


Sent
from my iPhone
On Feb 13,
2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 







Just
my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a
Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down
waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came
through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above
15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to
have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull
like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a
lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail
contracts.
As
everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of
pro's and con's , want's and need's and what
you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy
decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and
the goal posts keep moving.
But
if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the
leopards.
South
Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the
exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1
February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



 










Hi Porter,
Ahh, the
dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a
few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . .
So you are well ahead of the curve.
Ours was a choice between
'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono
sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420)
trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French
Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to
check it out.  We concluded, as others have
reported:
CAT
= - hobby-horsing- noisy and banging
and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about
structural integrity, but this never proved to be a
problem- could not get used to not being able to
'feel' the boat under sail- relying
accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than
tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks
Positives of a cat: as said,
privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters
(when two engines running, otherwise . . . .
 )
Speed under way
was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the
kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were
consdering.
Ultimately, it was for us it the
ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was
the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission
statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water
cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners
being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound
athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one
propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about
when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the
option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead
us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and
flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  =
Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring
also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of
sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls,
with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we
had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to
discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic'
aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but
nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was
made.
As was most of
the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the
wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums
(physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited
other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our
choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then,
did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in
on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months
back.
That is our
story.  I know everyone has their own path, and
prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But
your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water,
short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be
roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better
than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire'
to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may
well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a
well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other
'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story
for a, hopefully, much later time.
Hope this helps you in your
quest,
Blue
skies,
DavidNovice Boat
OwnerPERIGEE, SM#396, MartiniqueSent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
 









Let me
start by again thanking you for all your help along the
way.
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54
 and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for
a long time now.  
Recently a friend and long time
sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht
commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
Having lived on my own
sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I
highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the
one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!You get twice the space, 2 engines,
they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in
many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The
salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you
don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always
sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one
again just because of not being able to relax more like you
can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you
usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the
marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The
best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and
relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The
Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are
with much more inside and outside space.  If you have not tried one, I think
you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the
BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!
 You are
about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.
 I just don't want you to jump into it without trying
all the options available. I have spent years and thousands
of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again
with the great Catamaran options that are out
there. 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I
making the right choice?I was pretty certain i was until the
above response.

Could you lend me your
thoughts?
Were a family of four with plans for
an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.
 Am i
making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he
makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one
and goes with it.  
Its very much
appreciated.
Thank you again Porter






Alan Leslie
 

Hello Porter,
We have only one windlass on our Super Maramu. 
We have never had two anchors off the bow, even though we carry a second anchor in the stbd fwd locker. 
As Eric, one or two occasions we've had a stern anchor out...we have a Fortress for that.
Doesn't your Amel 54 have two windlasses ? I thought they all did unless yours is a VERY early one.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Robert

We haven't started cruising yet but would often spend a week or more on the boat in local waters over the past 5 years of ownership.

We have 540W x 24v and this typically tends to charge us back up from 88% at sunrise to around 98% daily by around 11am, but that is Brisbane, Australia where we get a lot of sun! Over the course of the day, and with the odd bit of motoring we are always back to 100% by 2pm or so and only use the generator to run the microwave, washer etc.. If we have around 3 rainy days in a row we would use the generator daily for an hour or so though. Our battery banks are only 400amp hours x 24v, and given the short term of our trips to date, we generally only have the galley fridge running and not the 2 x under bunk freezers. Once both these are running we think a little more solar and some wind generator power supply would be great.

How much more solar, perhaps up to 800w approx but the more the merrier really as long as it's not too large for your battery banks. In our case, and against most advice from this group, we are currently in the process of adding 2 x Rutland 1200 generators which each come with a MPPT solar controller and a function to add solar input there too, plus a stop / start switch for the wind generator and a battery temp monitor.  Whilst you certainly get very little power from wind generators compared to solar, we have had these on previous boats and always enjoyed seeing power coming in at night too when one is using most power, or on rainy but windy days as well, so just a personal preference.

In terms of auto-pilots we would certainly go with 2 fully set up complete pilots for redundancy purposes if possible with a quick change over switch. We have this and and many other Amel's we saw when boat shopping seemed to have this configuration set up by Amel in the factory which is really good peace of mind.

Windlass again if we had the option of two we would jump at it, but did not with our boat and have not missed that yet. We have seen many 54's with two anchors ready to go which looks nice, but are unsure of how often these would ever be used really?

Good luck and you will never regret the decision to go with the Amel instead of a cat. We chartered a lot before purchasing and always took big cats, but when it came to purchasing there was no way we would want one for a circumnavigation, but of course great for local waters. That said of course many swear by them.

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 # 332
Brisbane, Australia




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 




On Feb 13, 2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Just my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above 15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail contracts.

As everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of pro's and con's , want's and need's and what you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and the goal posts keep moving.

But if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the leopards.

South Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Hi Porter,

Ahh, the dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . . So you are well ahead of the curve.

Ours was a choice between 'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420) trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to check it out.  We concluded, as others have reported:

CAT = 
- hobby-horsing
- noisy and banging and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about structural integrity, but this never proved to be a problem
- could not get used to not being able to 'feel' the boat under sail
- relying accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks

Positives of a cat: as said, privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters (when two engines running, otherwise . . . .  )

Speed under way was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were consdering.

Ultimately, it was for us it the ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  = Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls, with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic' aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was made.

As was most of the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums (physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then, did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months back.

That is our story.  I know everyone has their own path, and prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water, short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire' to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other 'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story for a, hopefully, much later time.

Hope this helps you in your quest,

Blue skies,

David
Novice Boat Owner
PERIGEE, SM#396, Martinique
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.


Could you lend me your thoughts?

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

Its very much appreciated.

Thank you again Porter



















--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

No boat yet. 
Awaiting a survey on 
Amel 54 #152

It just seemed most 54s I looked at had 2. This one had one, owner professed never a need for 2. This windlass can handle 2 rodes. If they were prone to failure then I'd have a second. Lofran with a lewmar counter. 

Thanks Eric. 


On Feb 13, 2017, at 10:28 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

What boat do you have? Most of us post the boat type and hull number.

With respect to a second windlass, I have never had 2 anchors off the bow. Very infrequently I had to set an anchor off the stern. I have had Kimberlite for almost 15 years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

lto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:58 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

Thanks Alexandre. Does seem fast doesn't it!

 

Anyone know the weight of a windlass more or less?

 

Anyone use both often?

 

Thanks agin

Porter



On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

The Amel 54 I visited had 2 windlasses.
I don’t have solar, I don’t think you can get “too much”.
My SM2K has 2 auto-pilot drive (Rotary on the Wheel and Lineary on the rudder), so I would guess the 54 has 2 as well.
Now, there is only 1 computers (on the SM2K), so would be wise to have a spare.
4 year circumnavigation seems fast…
My trip is atypical because I have 2 businesses I manage from my boat, so I go very slow, but I try to visit everything. When I was in Dominican Republic, baots would arrive, then 2 days later leave… not visit anything… there was so much to visit there… same for Puerto Rico, another often skip place with lots to visit (Camuy cave, Arecibo observatory, rain forest, old town, fort, Bacardi distillery, etc.).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/13/17, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, February 13, 2017, 11:04 AM


 









I am so grateful for all the responses!
 We sailed
this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54.
Loved it. What an adventure machine!  Thank you guys for your
thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does
my beloved that we're making the right
choice. 
I do have a few other
questions if you would bear them:
One windlass or
2?
How much solar is
enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?
Is one autopilot enough
or is a backup the way to go?
The plan is a 4 year
circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 
You guys are such a
great crew and I really appreciate it. 
Porter
McRoberts. 


Sent
from my iPhone
On Feb 13,
2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 







Just
my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a
Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down
waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came
through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above
15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to
have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull
like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a
lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail
contracts.
As
everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of
pro's and con's , want's and need's and what
you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy
decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and
the goal posts keep moving.
But
if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the
leopards.
South
Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the
exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1
February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



 










Hi Porter,
Ahh, the
dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a
few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . .
So you are well ahead of the curve.
Ours was a choice between
'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono
sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420)
trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French
Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to
check it out.  We concluded, as others have
reported:
CAT
= - hobby-horsing- noisy and banging
and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about
structural integrity, but this never proved to be a
problem- could not get used to not being able to
'feel' the boat under sail- relying
accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than
tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks
Positives of a cat: as said,
privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters
(when two engines running, otherwise . . . .
 )
Speed under way
was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the
kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were
consdering.
Ultimately, it was for us it the
ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was
the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission
statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water
cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners
being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound
athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one
propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about
when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the
option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead
us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and
flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  =
Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring
also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of
sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls,
with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we
had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to
discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic'
aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but
nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was
made.
As was most of
the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the
wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums
(physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited
other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our
choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then,
did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in
on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months
back.
That is our
story.  I know everyone has their own path, and
prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But
your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water,
short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be
roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better
than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire'
to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may
well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a
well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other
'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story
for a, hopefully, much later time.
Hope this helps you in your
quest,
Blue
skies,
DavidNovice Boat
OwnerPERIGEE, SM#396, MartiniqueSent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
 









Let me
start by again thanking you for all your help along the
way.
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54
 and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for
a long time now.  
Recently a friend and long time
sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht
commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
Having lived on my own
sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I
highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the
one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!You get twice the space, 2 engines,
they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in
many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The
salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you
don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always
sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one
again just because of not being able to relax more like you
can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you
usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the
marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The
best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and
relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The
Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are
with much more inside and outside space.  If you have not tried one, I think
you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the
BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!
 You are
about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.
 I just don't want you to jump into it without trying
all the options available. I have spent years and thousands
of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again
with the great Catamaran options that are out
there. 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I
making the right choice?I was pretty certain i was until the
above response.

Could you lend me your
thoughts?
Were a family of four with plans for
an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.
 Am i
making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he
makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one
and goes with it.  
Its very much
appreciated.
Thank you again Porter






Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

I thought they all did too. Is first owner didn't want the weight. But to me doesn't seem particularly weighty. What could hey weigh 75-100 lbs?  Max?  
I like the idea of redundancy but before I add the second windlass I'd though I'd test the concept against the crew. If really not necessary then I'd not add. What's the benefit of 2? 
Thanks and fair winds!  


On Feb 14, 2017, at 2:43 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

We have only one windlass on our Super Maramu. 
We have never had two anchors off the bow, even though we carry a second anchor in the stbd fwd locker. 
As Eric, one or two occasions we've had a stern anchor out...we have a Fortress for that.
Doesn't your Amel 54 have two windlasses ? I thought they all did unless yours is a VERY early one.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Porter,

My mate has 2 windlasses on his 54 and uses only his Rocna anchor… the other is a CQR.  (he never uses it).  Personally, I would not want the extra weight up the bows…

If minimum maintenance is done and the windlass is not abused constantly, it should be good for a very long time.

GL with your buy.


Jean-Pierre Germain,
Eleuthera, SM 007


On 14 Feb 2017, at 07:18, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I thought they all did too. Is first owner didn't want the weight. But to me doesn't seem particularly weighty. What could hey weigh 75-100 lbs?  Max?  
I like the idea of redundancy but before I add the second windlass I'd though I'd test the concept against the crew. If really not necessary then I'd not add. What's the benefit of 2? 
Thanks and fair winds!  


On Feb 14, 2017, at 2:43 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

We have only one windlass on our Super Maramu. 
We have never had two anchors off the bow, even though we carry a second anchor in the stbd fwd locker. 
As Eric, one or two occasions we've had a stern anchor out...we have a Fortress for that.
Doesn't your Amel 54 have two windlasses ? I thought they all did unless yours is a VERY early one.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437





Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,

If I were going to do some extensive cruising and had 4 years, I would consider a Pacific circle over a circumnavigation. The circle would take you as far west as New Caladonia, as far south as New Zealand and from there to Hawaii, then returning to the US west coast. It would include some wonderful destinations and countries. In my opinion, you would see the best the world has to offer and your 4 year old would experience enough varied cultures of the world to give her a valuable education. If you don't have it, order Jimmy Cornnell's World Cruising Routes (7th revised edition). Amazon has it.

Bill
X-BeBe
Currently Galveston

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:15 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

No boat yet. 
Awaiting a survey on 
Amel 54 #152

It just seemed most 54s I looked at had 2. This one had one, owner professed never a need for 2. This windlass can handle 2 rodes. If they were prone to failure then I'd have a second. Lofran with a lewmar counter. 

Thanks Eric. 


On Feb 13, 2017, at 10:28 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

What boat do you have? Most of us post the boat type and hull number.

With respect to a second windlass, I have never had 2 anchors off the bow. Very infrequently I had to set an anchor off the stern. I have had Kimberlite for almost 15 years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

lto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:58 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

Thanks Alexandre. Does seem fast doesn't it!

 

Anyone know the weight of a windlass more or less?

 

Anyone use both often?

 

Thanks agin

Porter



On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

The Amel 54 I visited had 2 windlasses.
I don’t have solar, I don’t think you can get “too much”.
My SM2K has 2 auto-pilot drive (Rotary on the Wheel and Lineary on the rudder), so I would guess the 54 has 2 as well.
Now, there is only 1 computers (on the SM2K), so would be wise to have a spare.
4 year circumnavigation seems fast…
My trip is atypical because I have 2 businesses I manage from my boat, so I go very slow, but I try to visit everything. When I was in Dominican Republic, baots would arrive, then 2 days later leave… not visit anything… there was so much to visit there… same for Puerto Rico, another often skip place with lots to visit (Camuy cave, Arecibo observatory, rain forest, old town, fort, Bacardi distillery, etc.).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/13/17, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 13, 2017, 11:04 AM


 









I am so grateful for all the responses!
 We sailed
this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54.
Loved it. What an adventure machine!  Thank you guys for your
thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does
my beloved that we're making the right
choice. 
I do have a few other
questions if you would bear them:
One windlass or
2?
How much solar is
enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?
Is one autopilot enough
or is a backup the way to go?
The plan is a 4 year
circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 
You guys are such a
great crew and I really appreciate it. 
Porter
McRoberts. 


Sent
from my iPhone
On Feb 13,
2017, at 7:34 AM, stevect@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
















 







Just
my two pence worth, i sailed back from Rio to Cape Town on a
Leopard 40 , hit 50kt wind/storm for 18hrs surfing down
waves at some hairy speeds, and i was impressed how she came
through the storm , but as others mentioned anything above
15kts and she was slamming all the time, it was nice have to
have the space but i would rather have been on an Monohull
like an Amel, the older Robertson and Caine Leopards are a
lot stronger, before they recived the Moorings/ Sunsail
contracts.
As
everyone says it is a personal choice, make a list of
pro's and con's , want's and need's and what
you can afford and can't afford, it is not an easy
decsion as we are still searching for our dream yacht and
the goal posts keep moving.
But
if you decide on a cat i  suggest you look at the
leopards.
South
Africa is certianly value for money at the moment with the
exchange rate.


On Wednesday, 1
February 2017, 22:19, "David Vogel dbv_au@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



 










Hi Porter,
Ahh, the
dastardly debate - cat versus mono.  We faced this choice a
few years back, before we even knew what an AMEL was . . .
So you are well ahead of the curve.
Ours was a choice between
'conventional' mono versus cat.  So we - as mono
sailors through and through - crewed on a Cat (Lagoon 420)
trans-oceanic - through the Panama, Galapagos, French
Polynesia - so as to find out first hand.  Low risk way to
check it out.  We concluded, as others have
reported:
CAT
= - hobby-horsing- noisy and banging
and shuddering in ocean seas, to the point of worrying about
structural integrity, but this never proved to be a
problem- could not get used to not being able to
'feel' the boat under sail- relying
accordingly more on instrument to sail, rather than
tell-tales and wind-on-the-cheeks
Positives of a cat: as said,
privacy, spaciousness, manoeuvrability in tight quarters
(when two engines running, otherwise . . . .
 )
Speed under way
was not an issue either way, as a priamry criteria for the
kind of Boat - eithe cat OR mono - that we were
consdering.
Ultimately, it was for us it the
ability to 'feel" the boat under sail, which was
the determining fator for cat vs mono.Our 'mission
statement': prolonged remote-area and blue-water
cruising, most often but not always short-handed, owners
being a M+F couple of retiring years (not muscle-bound
athletic types).  For good measure, the fact of only one
propulsion engine to break - less complexity to worry about
when things DO go wrong.  Having decided this, then the
option for us was clear.  Mono.  And the mission then lead
us to a sail-plan supporting ease of sail-handling (and
flexibility / redundancy if/when something breaks).  =
Ketch.  And solo watches = protected cockpit, requiring
also (for the fatigue-management of the off-watch) ease of
sail-handling, which meant powered primary sail-controls,
with (preferably) designed-in manual redundancy.  Once we
had established the functional criteria, this is lead us to
discover the AMEL. The level of other 'domestic'
aspects, dish-washer, washing machine, not so important, but
nice as 'added bonus' once the decision was
made.
As was most of
the 'other stuff', but all of which concreted the
wisdom of the decision.  We went to cruising forums
(physical, in-person, not on-line) and searched/visited
other boat brands/configurations to try to dislodge our
choice of an AMEL but, simply, could not do so.  Only then,
did we start to refine the age, equipment spec, and hone in
on the vessel that we eventually bought 4 months
back.
That is our
story.  I know everyone has their own path, and
prioritising what is important is a personal choice.  But
your 'mission spec' - long-term blue water,
short-handed, kids = safety is paramount, seems to be
roughly the same.  My belief is that you can not do better
than AMEL for this.  When/if, we decide to 'retire'
to coastal/inshore cruising, then we figure that a cat may
well be the answer. If so, then we figure that a
well-maintained AMEL will hold her value more so than other
'plastic fanstatics' , but that is yet another story
for a, hopefully, much later time.
Hope this helps you in your
quest,
Blue
skies,
DavidNovice Boat
OwnerPERIGEE, SM#396, MartiniqueSent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 03:38, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
 









Let me
start by again thanking you for all your help along the
way.
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54
 and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for
a long time now.  
Recently a friend and long time
sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht
commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
Having lived on my own
sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I
highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the
one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!You get twice the space, 2 engines,
they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in
many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The
salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you
don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always
sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one
again just because of not being able to relax more like you
can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you
usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the
marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The
best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and
relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The
Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are
with much more inside and outside space.  If you have not tried one, I think
you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the
BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!
 You are
about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.
 I just don't want you to jump into it without trying
all the options available. I have spent years and thousands
of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again
with the great Catamaran options that are out
there. 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I
making the right choice?I was pretty certain i was until the
above response.

Could you lend me your
thoughts?
Were a family of four with plans for
an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.
 Am i
making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he
makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one
and goes with it.  
Its very much
appreciated.
Thank you again Porter







greatketch@...
 

Porter,

As Joel said, we all have our opinions, and at least mine are worth what you pay for them... so here are mine:

Two windlasses:
 This is not an important option in my thinking.  Take good care of one, and you'll not have problems. There are always ways to get an anchor up without the windlass.  They might not be much fun, but it can be done. The extra weight DOES matter up on the very end of the boat.  And it is not just the weight of the windlass, but the weight of the second anchor moved out to live full time on the roller, and its chain now always lives in the chainlocker.  Using two anchors at once certainly does happen, but not often unless you are cruising full time in the Bahamas, even then it is onlynsomething like 10 or 20% of the places you'll drop the hook.

Solar:  
More is better--always.  The old joke, "How much much money does it take to go cruising? All you have!" is doubly true of power usage. People who installed 400 watts of solar are likely to say that that it the right amount, people who installed 300 (or 500) will say the same. I doubt you will ever run into anybody who wishes they had installed less! We put 600W of high efficiency panels on an arch because that was all we could fit. If there was an easy, attractive, and safe way to rig 800W, I'd do it.  Our 600W panels supply the boat, but not us.  

Here is what I mean:  If we are plugged into shore power I will typically turn off the battery charger and just let the panels top off the batteries every day while our AC needs are met from shore power. The panels just keep up with our two refrigerators, one freezer, cabin lights and other miscellaneous DC power needs. 

If we are at anchor, our personnel power use for electronics and other small uses just overtop the panels supplies most day and we need to run the generator a little each early morning, which is when we run the watermaker.  Less the watermaker--our overall use of DC power at anchor is about 1.8 to 2.5 kW-hrs per day

Autopilot:
If you are crossing oceans, two autopilots is barely enough. They work great--until they don't. Do as Joel Potter suggests (always a good idea!) They are complex electro-mechanical devices and failure is not just an option, it is to be expected.  Hand steering with a short handed crew on a long passage is not fun.

Bill Rouse's number of an autopilot failure one in ten passages would lead to an expectation that both would fail in one out of 100 passages.  I once sailed 800 ocean miles without an autopilot.  I would really, REALLY prefer to never do THAT again.

Circumnavigation
Don't let anybody tell you how long is right for YOU.  It is like someone trying to tell me I should like Brussels Sprouts because they taste so good and EVERYBODY loves them!  One one end, I know of someone who set out on a circumnavigation and 20 years later had not left the Pacific Basin.  I know someone else who circumnavigated in 18 months stopping only for provisions and repairs.  One thing they had in common:  They both did exactly what was right for THEM and had fun doing it.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands

---In amelyachtowners@..., <portermcroberts@...> wrote :

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 





W Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

Thank you JP.
Very appreciated.  I think i need to take the thing apart and "learn it” and then buy the parts that might break.
Thx!

W. Porter McRoberts MD FAAPMR ABPMR ABA/Pain
Director Interventional Spine, Pain Medicine, Neurosurgery
Holy Cross Hospital
Fort Lauderdale, FL 
Assistant Professor, University of Miami School of Medicine










On Feb 14, 2017, at 6:57 AM, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello Porter,


My mate has 2 windlasses on his 54 and uses only his Rocna anchor… the other is a CQR.  (he never uses it).  Personally, I would not want the extra weight up the bows…

If minimum maintenance is done and the windlass is not abused constantly, it should be good for a very long time.

GL with your buy.


Jean-Pierre Germain,
Eleuthera, SM 007


On 14 Feb 2017, at 07:18, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I thought they all did too. Is first owner didn't want the weight. But to me doesn't seem particularly weighty. What could hey weigh 75-100 lbs?  Max?  
I like the idea of redundancy but before I add the second windlass I'd though I'd test the concept against the crew. If really not necessary then I'd not add. What's the benefit of 2? 
Thanks and fair winds!  


On Feb 14, 2017, at 2:43 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Porter,

We have only one windlass on our Super Maramu. 
We have never had two anchors off the bow, even though we carry a second anchor in the stbd fwd locker. 
As Eric, one or two occasions we've had a stern anchor out...we have a Fortress for that.
Doesn't your Amel 54 have two windlasses ? I thought they all did unless yours is a VERY early one.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437







James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

 

Porter,
I know you have been given lots of really good advice, but since I have an Amel 54 I thought I might chime in to give you my humble opinions if they would help you. I have lived on my boat Phantom now for more than a year and am currently cruising the windward islands in the Caribbean. I have learned quite a bit about the boat during that time and can at least offer some advice based on my life on board.

Two windlasses:
My Amel 54 came with the 2-windlass option. I have never needed the second windlass, but I find it quite comforting to know it is there. I do exercise it every once in awhile to ensure it remains fully operational. I do this because the primary windlass has suffered some significant internal corrosion and I have lost the chain counter function. Having the second windlass ready to deploy is critical in my situation. I will be replacing the primary unit upon return to the US this summer. However, I agree with the consensus that a single windlass is just fine if properly maintained.

Solar:  
I wholeheartedly agree with the more is better philosophy here. You cannot have too much. I installed an arch with the biggest panels I could fit, giving me 570 watts. While it helps, I can tell you that it will not keep up with the battery requirements. I have a D400 wind generator as well, but I find wind generators far less beneficial than solar - at least during the day. During the day in the Caribbean with full sun I have seen nearly 540 watts at times, with an average of 350 more the norm. If the sun is out I am able to keep up with my 18-amp load for about 3 hours or so. I am going to add more in the way of a 140 watt Solbian flexible panel on the dodger. I just have to get to installing it. That will help even more. But I have to run the generator every day for an hour or two to keep my 660AH batteries happy. As others have noted, I use the generator run to make water and do laundry, etc. I also installed a Watt and Sea, which really helps on passage.

Autopilot:
My Amel 54 also has the dual autopilot option. During my research on Amel 54's I never saw one with just the single autopilot. I have already experienced a failure where I had to switch on passage. I have the linear/rotary autopilot drive system, which is fine, but the newer 54's come with dual hydraulic linears, which I believe also included dual computers. Mine has a single computer with 2 drives. I would highly recommend the dual setup in either case.

Circumnavigation
I do not yet feel qualified to advise on circumnavigation. While I intend to do the World ARC in a year or so, I would not attempt that until I fully confident the boat is ready - and me as well. Getting to know the boat and ensuring everything is in top shape has been my priority. I would consider my current cruising in the Caribbean a good shake-down. However, I can assure you that the Amel 54 is a FANTASTIC boat. I can actually solo sail it - not that I will or intend to do so, but it is so well thought out I could do it. Two could cruise the world in supreme comfort for sure.

s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044




On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Porter,

As Joel said, we all have our opinions, and at least mine are worth what you pay for them... so here are mine:

Two windlasses:
 This is not an important option in my thinking.  Take good care of one, and you'll not have problems. There are always ways to get an anchor up without the windlass.  They might not be much fun, but it can be done. The extra weight DOES matter up on the very end of the boat.  And it is not just the weight of the windlass, but the weight of the second anchor moved out to live full time on the roller, and its chain now always lives in the chainlocker.  Using two anchors at once certainly does happen, but not often unless you are cruising full time in the Bahamas, even then it is onlynsomething like 10 or 20% of the places you'll drop the hook.

Solar:  
More is better--always.  The old joke, "How much much money does it take to go cruising? All you have!" is doubly true of power usage. People who installed 400 watts of solar are likely to say that that it the right amount, people who installed 300 (or 500) will say the same. I doubt you will ever run into anybody who wishes they had installed less! We put 600W of high efficiency panels on an arch because that was all we could fit. If there was an easy, attractive, and safe way to rig 800W, I'd do it.  Our 600W panels supply the boat, but not us.  

Here is what I mean:  If we are plugged into shore power I will typically turn off the battery charger and just let the panels top off the batteries every day while our AC needs are met from shore power. The panels just keep up with our two refrigerators, one freezer, cabin lights and other miscellaneous DC power needs. 

If we are at anchor, our personnel power use for electronics and other small uses just overtop the panels supplies most day and we need to run the generator a little each early morning, which is when we run the watermaker.  Less the watermaker--our overall use of DC power at anchor is about 1.8 to 2.5 kW-hrs per day

Autopilot:
If you are crossing oceans, two autopilots is barely enough. They work great--until they don't. Do as Joel Potter suggests (always a good idea!) They are complex electro-mechanical devices and failure is not just an option, it is to be expected.  Hand steering with a short handed crew on a long passage is not fun.

Bill Rouse's number of an autopilot failure one in ten passages would lead to an expectation that both would fail in one out of 100 passages.  I once sailed 800 ocean miles without an autopilot.  I would really, REALLY prefer to never do THAT again.

Circumnavigation
Don't let anybody tell you how long is right for YOU.  It is like someone trying to tell me I should like Brussels Sprouts because they taste so good and EVERYBODY loves them!  One one end, I know of someone who set out on a circumnavigation and 20 years later had not left the Pacific Basin.  I know someone else who circumnavigated in 18 months stopping only for provisions and repairs.  One thing they had in common:  They both did exactly what was right for THEM and had fun doing it.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 







Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

Great info and thank you!
Would you recommend one hydraulic and an electric? (Less amps in low demand situations)
Or two hydraulics ?
Porter

On Feb 14, 2017, at 2:19 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Porter,
I know you have been given lots of really good advice, but since I have an Amel 54 I thought I might chime in to give you my humble opinions if they would help you. I have lived on my boat Phantom now for more than a year and am currently cruising the windward islands in the Caribbean. I have learned quite a bit about the boat during that time and can at least offer some advice based on my life on board.

Two windlasses:
My Amel 54 came with the 2-windlass option. I have never needed the second windlass, but I find it quite comforting to know it is there. I do exercise it every once in awhile to ensure it remains fully operational. I do this because the primary windlass has suffered some significant internal corrosion and I have lost the chain counter function. Having the second windlass ready to deploy is critical in my situation. I will be replacing the primary unit upon return to the US this summer. However, I agree with the consensus that a single windlass is just fine if properly maintained.

Solar:  
I wholeheartedly agree with the more is better philosophy here. You cannot have too much. I installed an arch with the biggest panels I could fit, giving me 570 watts. While it helps, I can tell you that it will not keep up with the battery requirements. I have a D400 wind generator as well, but I find wind generators far less beneficial than solar - at least during the day. During the day in the Caribbean with full sun I have seen nearly 540 watts at times, with an average of 350 more the norm. If the sun is out I am able to keep up with my 18-amp load for about 3 hours or so. I am going to add more in the way of a 140 watt Solbian flexible panel on the dodger. I just have to get to installing it. That will help even more. But I have to run the generator every day for an hour or two to keep my 660AH batteries happy. As others have noted, I use the generator run to make water and do laundry, etc. I also installed a Watt and Sea, which really helps on passage.

Autopilot:
My Amel 54 also has the dual autopilot option. During my research on Amel 54's I never saw one with just the single autopilot. I have already experienced a failure where I had to switch on passage. I have the linear/rotary autopilot drive system, which is fine, but the newer 54's come with dual hydraulic linears, which I believe also included dual computers. Mine has a single computer with 2 drives. I would highly recommend the dual setup in either case.

Circumnavigation
I do not yet feel qualified to advise on circumnavigation. While I intend to do the World ARC in a year or so, I would not attempt that until I fully confident the boat is ready - and me as well. Getting to know the boat and ensuring everything is in top shape has been my priority. I would consider my current cruising in the Caribbean a good shake-down. However, I can assure you that the Amel 54 is a FANTASTIC boat. I can actually solo sail it - not that I will or intend to do so, but it is so well thought out I could do it. Two could cruise the world in supreme comfort for sure.

s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044




On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Porter,

As Joel said, we all have our opinions, and at least mine are worth what you pay for them... so here are mine:

Two windlasses:
 This is not an important option in my thinking.  Take good care of one, and you'll not have problems. There are always ways to get an anchor up without the windlass.  They might not be much fun, but it can be done. The extra weight DOES matter up on the very end of the boat.  And it is not just the weight of the windlass, but the weight of the second anchor moved out to live full time on the roller, and its chain now always lives in the chainlocker.  Using two anchors at once certainly does happen, but not often unless you are cruising full time in the Bahamas, even then it is onlynsomething like 10 or 20% of the places you'll drop the hook.

Solar:  
More is better--always.  The old joke, "How much much money does it take to go cruising? All you have!" is doubly true of power usage. People who installed 400 watts of solar are likely to say that that it the right amount, people who installed 300 (or 500) will say the same. I doubt you will ever run into anybody who wishes they had installed less! We put 600W of high efficiency panels on an arch because that was all we could fit. If there was an easy, attractive, and safe way to rig 800W, I'd do it.  Our 600W panels supply the boat, but not us.  

Here is what I mean:  If we are plugged into shore power I will typically turn off the battery charger and just let the panels top off the batteries every day while our AC needs are met from shore power. The panels just keep up with our two refrigerators, one freezer, cabin lights and other miscellaneous DC power needs. 

If we are at anchor, our personnel power use for electronics and other small uses just overtop the panels supplies most day and we need to run the generator a little each early morning, which is when we run the watermaker.  Less the watermaker--our overall use of DC power at anchor is about 1.8 to 2.5 kW-hrs per day

Autopilot:
If you are crossing oceans, two autopilots is barely enough. They work great--until they don't. Do as Joel Potter suggests (always a good idea!) They are complex electro-mechanical devices and failure is not just an option, it is to be expected.  Hand steering with a short handed crew on a long passage is not fun.

Bill Rouse's number of an autopilot failure one in ten passages would lead to an expectation that both would fail in one out of 100 passages.  I once sailed 800 ocean miles without an autopilot.  I would really, REALLY prefer to never do THAT again.

Circumnavigation
Don't let anybody tell you how long is right for YOU.  It is like someone trying to tell me I should like Brussels Sprouts because they taste so good and EVERYBODY loves them!  One one end, I know of someone who set out on a circumnavigation and 20 years later had not left the Pacific Basin.  I know someone else who circumnavigated in 18 months stopping only for provisions and repairs.  One thing they had in common:  They both did exactly what was right for THEM and had fun doing it.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands

---In amelyachtowners@...,
I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts. 







James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

The newer Amel 54 comes with 2 identical hydraulic drives under the aft cabin bed. Mine has a linear electric under the bed and a rotary drive above the galley sink. I think hydraulic drives are best. I installed one on my previous boat and really liked it - quite powerful.
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:22 AM, "Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Great info and thank you!
Would you recommend one hydraulic and an electric? (Less amps in low demand situations)
Or two hydraulics ?
Porter

On Feb 14, 2017, at 2:19 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 

Porter,
I know you have been given lots of really good advice, but since I have an Amel 54 I thought I might chime in to give you my humble opinions if they would help you. I have lived on my boat Phantom now for more than a year and am currently cruising the windward islands in the Caribbean. I have learned quite a bit about the boat during that time and can at least offer some advice based on my life on board.

Two windlasses:
My Amel 54 came with the 2-windlass option. I have never needed the second windlass, but I find it quite comforting to know it is there. I do exercise it every once in awhile to ensure it remains fully operational. I do this because the primary windlass has suffered some significant internal corrosion and I have lost the chain counter function. Having the second windlass ready to deploy is critical in my situation. I will be replacing the primary unit upon return to the US this summer. However, I agree with the consensus that a single windlass is just fine if properly maintained.

Solar:  
I wholeheartedly agree with the more is better philosophy here. You cannot have too much. I installed an arch with the biggest panels I could fit, giving me 570 watts. While it helps, I can tell you that it will not keep up with the battery requirements. I have a D400 wind generator as well, but I find wind generators far less beneficial than solar - at least during the day. During the day in the Caribbean with full sun I have seen nearly 540 watts at times, with an average of 350 more the norm. If the sun is out I am able to keep up with my 18-amp load for about 3 hours or so. I am going to add more in the way of a 140 watt Solbian flexible panel on the dodger. I just have to get to installing it. That will help even more. But I have to run the generator every day for an hour or two to keep my 660AH batteries happy. As others have noted, I use the generator run to make water and do laundry, etc. I also installed a Watt and Sea, which really helps on passage.

Autopilot:
My Amel 54 also has the dual autopilot option. During my research on Amel 54's I never saw one with just the single autopilot. I have already experienced a failure where I had to switch on passage. I have the linear/rotary autopilot drive system, which is fine, but the newer 54's come with dual hydraulic linears, which I believe also included dual computers. Mine has a single computer with 2 drives. I would highly recommend the dual setup in either case.

Circumnavigation
I do not yet feel qualified to advise on circumnavigation. While I intend to do the World ARC in a year or so, I would not attempt that until I fully confident the boat is ready - and me as well. Getting to know the boat and ensuring everything is in top shape has been my priority. I would consider my current cruising in the Caribbean a good shake-down. However, I can assure you that the Amel 54 is a FANTASTIC boat. I can actually solo sail it - not that I will or intend to do so, but it is so well thought out I could do it. Two could cruise the world in supreme comfort for sure.

s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044




On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Porter,

As Joel said, we all have our opinions, and at least mine are worth what you pay for them... so here are mine:

Two windlasses:
 This is not an important option in my thinking.  Take good care of one, and you'll not have problems. There are always ways to get an anchor up without the windlass.  They might not be much fun, but it can be done. The extra weight DOES matter up on the very end of the boat.  And it is not just the weight of the windlass, but the weight of the second anchor moved out to live full time on the roller, and its chain now always lives in the chainlocker.  Using two anchors at once certainly does happen, but not often unless you are cruising full time in the Bahamas, even then it is onlynsomething like 10 or 20% of the places you'll drop the hook.

Solar:  
More is better--always.  The old joke, "How much much money does it take to go cruising? All you have!" is doubly true of power usage. People who installed 400 watts of solar are likely to say that that it the right amount, people who installed 300 (or 500) will say the same. I doubt you will ever run into anybody who wishes they had installed less! We put 600W of high efficiency panels on an arch because that was all we could fit. If there was an easy, attractive, and safe way to rig 800W, I'd do it.  Our 600W panels supply the boat, but not us.  

Here is what I mean:  If we are plugged into shore power I will typically turn off the battery charger and just let the panels top off the batteries every day while our AC needs are met from shore power. The panels just keep up with our two refrigerators, one freezer, cabin lights and other miscellaneous DC power needs. 

If we are at anchor, our personnel power use for electronics and other small uses just overtop the panels supplies most day and we need to run the generator a little each early morning, which is when we run the watermaker.  Less the watermaker--our overall use of DC power at anchor is about 1.8 to 2.5 kW-hrs per day

Autopilot:
If you are crossing oceans, two autopilots is barely enough. They work great--until they don't. Do as Joel Potter suggests (always a good idea!) They are complex electro-mechanical devices and failure is not just an option, it is to be expected.  Hand steering with a short handed crew on a long passage is not fun.

Bill Rouse's number of an autopilot failure one in ten passages would lead to an expectation that both would fail in one out of 100 passages.  I once sailed 800 ocean miles without an autopilot.  I would really, REALLY prefer to never do THAT again.

Circumnavigation
Don't let anybody tell you how long is right for YOU.  It is like someone trying to tell me I should like Brussels Sprouts because they taste so good and EVERYBODY loves them!  One one end, I know of someone who set out on a circumnavigation and 20 years later had not left the Pacific Basin.  I know someone else who circumnavigated in 18 months stopping only for provisions and repairs.  One thing they had in common:  They both did exactly what was right for THEM and had fun doing it.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I am so grateful for all the responses!  
We sailed this past weekend on what we hope will be our new Amel 54. Loved it. What an adventure machine!  
Thank you guys for your thoughtful and complete responses. I have no doubts nor does my beloved that we're making the right choice. 

I do have a few other questions if you would bear them:

One windlass or 2?

How much solar is enough, how much too much? Is there ever too much?

Is one autopilot enough or is a backup the way to go?

The plan is a 4 year circumnavigation. Maybe 7? Maybe 2. 

You guys are such a great crew and I really appreciate it. 

Porter McRoberts.