[Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...


Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 



W Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

Bill- No I do not mind in the least!!!

All comments very much appreciated! I think once we get under there other findings may elucidate the nature and seriousness of the problem. A Volvo computer check would be helpful i think too.  

Interesting that you state even a Volvo mechanic would not implicitly “fully understand the Volvo system.” 
Thats a little disconcerting.  

I really appreciate it. 

Thanks amigo.

Porter










On Feb 19, 2017, at 2:29 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>wrote:
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

  

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 







Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

As always Bill, on the button.
Danny



From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 
Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 
Porter,
 
The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).
 
A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
 
 
Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter
 




Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

Also, keep in mind Dave Huffman is not a mechanic. He will note the engine puts out a black cloud of smoke at start up (if he sees it) but will not determine cause. Dave is an excellent surveyor. He surveyed Cream Puff at the time of our purchase and was very comprehensive. We have recommended him to others and all seem to be happy with his work. Tell him we said hi.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising - Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 1:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

 

Many thanks Mark

 



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


John Clark
 

Hi Porter and Bill...and everyone,
I have been off line getting acclimated to SM37 in Martinique. Just this week getting time to pop my head up.

Porter aren't you looking at a newer Amel with the Yanmar engine? It might behave differently. My Volvo TMD22 does not smoke at all ever. That said the SM berthed next to me has a black sooty smear all over the side of boat...Amel mechanical have been working on it all week...smoke is probably not good..but if it is only at start up it may not be critical.

Dave "our" surveyor was concerned when the generator put out a puff and a bit of oil sheen when started during survey. ..but we learned the genny had not been run in three months. He was ok with it. Never saw either again.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil. SM37
Le Marin


John Clark
 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


hanspeter baettig
 

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


hanspeter baettig
 

To all
Sorry I fogot something. Not to get the impression I'm too old to patricipate in this forum with technical questions . I bought Tamango 2 when I was 38 years old.
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM 16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 22:03 schrieb 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Hanspeter,

I agree with your advice regarding RPM...and, if age had anything to do with participating in this forum, I would have to quit.

The issue with Volvo mechanics completely understanding the newer D3-110 is a common issue worldwide. Even the Volvo test equipment will not identify system faults in some cases. From what I know about this issue, it seems as though the initial programming of the onboard engine control computer has issues, but more than that, with the introduction of this engine Volvo mechanics had to move from being diesel engine mechanics in a completely analog and mechanical world to being diesel mechanics with an engine controled by software in an onboard computer connected to sensors and also connected electronically to mechanical valves and gates controlling fuel, air, timing, etc. It is very understandable that some owners of the D3-110 give up and replace the engine.

From what I hear, this is improving, and newer model Volvos have not had all of the same problems. If I had to decide between the rebuilding of an older pre-computer controled diesel engine or buying a new computer controled engine, I would pay more to rebuild than the cost of new.

Also, not all D3-110 owners have suffered the "unsolved mysteries" that this engine has presented to others.

I hope this clears things up.

Best,

Bill
Ex-BeBe

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:03 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin



ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 




On 20 Feb 2017, at 21:03, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hanspeter,


 I think you must have misread  what Jeff Spirit wrote. He advocates running a diesel hard for 15 minutes a day when you are using it. That is the same advice as your own  ( increasing the revs to 2600-2800 for 5-10 minutes )


 For those of us who have Supermaramus, 2800 revs is flat out, as  Amel govern the revs to that figure.


Both of you are giving the same, good , advice.


 Ian and  Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Hyeres


From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: 20 February 2017 22:36:15
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
 



On 20 Feb 2017, at 21:03, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Alan Leslie
 

Yes and that is actually stated in the Yanmar manual :

(7) When operating the engine at low speed for long periods of time, race the engine once every 2
hours.
Racing the Engine
♦Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever (MT-3) or the free throttle button
(MV) and shift the engine speed from high t to low
several times.
→See 4.3.4(1)
Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the combustion
chamber and around the fuel injection valve.
Neglecting to race the engine will cause the exhaust to
turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


eric freedman
 

Hanspeter,

I believe you misunderstood what Jeff said. He recommended running it at a high speed for just 15 minutes a day . This has been told to me by many diesel mechanics over the years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 5:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 




On 20 Feb 2017, at 21:03, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners

Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.

Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)

Keep loving sailing

Hanspeter

SM Owner with the same boat since 1995

SM16

Tamango 2


Von meinem iPad gesendet


Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,

I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.

Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.

Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.

I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.

As a side note:

I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.

Good Luck!

 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

 

 

 




On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

 

Thanks again. 

 

Porter

 

 



On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Bob Grey
 

Guys as the owner of a 55 with the 110 D3, I do my own service, the dealer gave me the same advice about the motor when I said I usually only motor at 1500rpm, he said then I will glaze the bores and kill the turbo early. He also suggested full revs (2500) on my boat for short intervals to get the turbo and cylinders working at design heat and stresses.


Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25
Melbourne Australia.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 21:46, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Bill,
Your explanation of the d3 110 was exactly what the service manager explained. As a result of the inability to identify faults, often the problems encountered by d3 owners can be a trial and error path that can lead to major expenses, frustrations, and ultimately, a lack of confidence in your propulsion system. Not good.
The service rep came down HIMSELF, as a curtisy (sp) to me, knowing that the d3 was a difficult animal to tame after shooting the crap for an hour about various diesel related bullcrap. He was aboard for 3 hours. The tech was there 3 times over 3 days and left scratching his head.
Only trying to make a point here.
Thanks for your input. You are a very intelligent and helpful man, and I appreciate  that input!


On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 04:27 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hanspeter,

I agree with your advice regarding RPM...and, if age had anything to do with participating in this forum, I would have to quit.

The issue with Volvo mechanics completely understanding the newer D3-110 is a common issue worldwide. Even the Volvo test equipment will not identify system faults in some cases. From what I know about this issue, it seems as though the initial programming of the onboard engine control computer has issues, but more than that, with the introduction of this engine Volvo mechanics had to move from being diesel engine mechanics in a completely analog and mechanical world to being diesel mechanics with an engine controled by software in an onboard computer connected to sensors and also connected electronically to mechanical valves and gates controlling fuel, air, timing, etc. It is very understandable that some owners of the D3-110 give up and replace the engine.

From what I hear, this is improving, and newer model Volvos have not had all of the same problems. If I had to decide between the rebuilding of an older pre-computer controled diesel engine or buying a new computer controled engine, I would pay more to rebuild than the cost of new.

Also, not all D3-110 owners have suffered the "unsolved mysteries" that this engine has presented to others.

I hope this clears things up.

Best,

Bill
Ex-BeBe

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:03 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss )
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin