
Mark Erdos
Porter,
The good news
it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you
will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask
me how I know this).
A lot of diesels
will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being
burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or
poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note
I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is
fuel related.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty
cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
Good
Sunday morning you Oracles!
Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class. Fascinating.
I think humans are less complex!
Anyway quick question. We are in the process of working through buying
what seems like a great 2010 54.
But… did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting
the boat. Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.
Nigel disagreed. He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it
indicates something serious. "Always.”
Warm starts seem ok. The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that
I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.
Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?
Any thoughts? I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.
Always so very appreciated.
Porter
|
|
Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
That's comforting. To say the least! I'll be sure to check.
Many thanks Mark
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Porter,
The good news
it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you
will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask
me how I know this).
A lot of diesels
will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being
burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or
poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note
I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is
fuel related.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty
cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas
www.creampuff.us
Good
Sunday morning you Oracles!
Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class. Fascinating.
I think humans are less complex!
Anyway quick question. We are in the process of working through buying
what seems like a great 2010 54.
But… did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting
the boat. Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.
Nigel disagreed. He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it
indicates something serious. "Always.”
Warm starts seem ok. The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that
I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.
Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?
Any thoughts? I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.
Always so very appreciated.
Porter
|
|
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Porter, I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:
I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.
As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo."
Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.
That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.
You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."
Best,
Bill X-BeBe Galveston, Texas
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
That's comforting. To say the least! I'll be sure to check.
Many thanks Mark
Porter,
The good news
it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you
will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask
me how I know this).
A lot of diesels
will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being
burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or
poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note
I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is
fuel related.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty
cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas
www.creampuff.us
Good
Sunday morning you Oracles!
Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class. Fascinating.
I think humans are less complex!
Anyway quick question. We are in the process of working through buying
what seems like a great 2010 54.
But… did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting
the boat. Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.
Nigel disagreed. He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it
indicates something serious. "Always.”
Warm starts seem ok. The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that
I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.
Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?
Any thoughts? I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.
Always so very appreciated.
Porter
|
|
W Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
Bill- No I do not mind in the least!!!
All comments very much appreciated! I think once we get under there other findings may elucidate the nature and seriousness of the problem. A Volvo computer check would be helpful i think too.
Interesting that you state even a Volvo mechanic would not implicitly “fully understand the Volvo system.” Thats a little disconcerting.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks amigo.
Porter
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Porter, I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:
I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.
As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo."
Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.
That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.
You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."
Best,
Bill X-BeBe Galveston, Texas
|
|
As always Bill, on the button. Danny
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" To: "amelyachtowners@..." Sent: Monday, 20 February 2017 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
Porter, I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:
I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.
As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo."
Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.
That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.
You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."
Best,
Bill X-BeBe Galveston, Texas
|
|

Mark Erdos
Porter,
Also, keep in
mind Dave Huffman is not a mechanic. He will note the engine puts out a black
cloud of smoke at start up (if he sees it) but will not determine cause. Dave
is an excellent surveyor. He surveyed Cream Puff at the time of our purchase
and was very comprehensive. We have recommended him to others and all seem to
be happy with his work. Tell him we said hi.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty cruising - Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 1:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
That's comforting. To say the least!
I'll be sure to check.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@...
[amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Porter,
The good news it is definitely not the
turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a
huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).
A lot of diesels will puff a little
black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be
due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality.
When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters”
with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma
Islands, Bahamas
www.creampuff.us
Good Sunday morning you Oracles!
Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class. Fascinating.
I think humans are less complex!
Anyway quick question. We are in the process of working through buying
what seems like a great 2010 54.
But… did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting
the boat. Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.
Nigel disagreed. He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it
indicates something serious. "Always.”
Warm starts seem ok. The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that
I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.
Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?
Any thoughts? I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.
Always so very appreciated.
Porter
|
|
Hi Porter and Bill...and everyone, I have been off line getting acclimated to SM37 in Martinique. Just this week getting time to pop my head up. Porter aren't you looking at a newer Amel with the Yanmar engine? It might behave differently. My Volvo TMD22 does not smoke at all ever. That said the SM berthed next to me has a black sooty smear all over the side of boat...Amel mechanical have been working on it all week...smoke is probably not good..but if it is only at start up it may not be critical.
Dave "our" surveyor was concerned when the generator put out a puff and a bit of oil sheen when started during survey. ..but we learned the genny had not been run in three months. He was ok with it. Never saw either again.
Regards, John Vent de Soleil. SM37 Le Marin
|
|
Hi Mark, Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John Vent de Soleil SM37 Le Marin
|
|
Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months.
Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique
I would imagine he'd have good insight.
Thanks again.
Porter
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin
|
|
|
|
To all and specially to the new Amel Owners Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust. My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80. Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉) Keep loving sailing Hanspeter SM Owner with the same boat since 1995 SM16 Tamango 2 Von meinem iPad gesendet
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Porter, I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke. Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard. Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day. I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit. As a side note: I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due
to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short. Good Luck!
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months.
Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique
I would imagine he'd have good insight.
Thanks again.
Porter
Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin
|
|
To all Sorry I fogot something. Not to get the impression I'm too old to patricipate in this forum with technical questions . I bought Tamango 2 when I was 38 years old. Hanspeter Tamango 2 SM 16
Von meinem iPad gesendet
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
To all and specially to the new Amel Owners Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust. My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80. Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉) Keep loving sailing Hanspeter SM Owner with the same boat since 1995 SM16 Tamango 2 Von meinem iPad gesendet
Porter, I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke. Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard. Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day. I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit. As a side note: I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due
to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short. Good Luck!
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months.
Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique
I would imagine he'd have good insight.
Thanks again.
Porter
Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin
|
|
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Hanspeter,
I agree with your advice regarding RPM...and, if age had anything to do with participating in this forum, I would have to quit.
The issue with Volvo mechanics completely understanding the newer D3-110 is a common issue worldwide. Even the Volvo test equipment will not identify system faults in some cases. From what I know about this issue, it seems as though the initial programming of the onboard engine control computer has issues, but more than that, with the introduction of this engine Volvo mechanics had to move from being diesel engine mechanics in a completely analog and mechanical world to being diesel mechanics with an engine controled by software in an onboard computer connected to sensors and also connected electronically to mechanical valves and gates controlling fuel, air, timing, etc. It is very understandable that some owners of the D3-110 give up and replace the engine.
From what I hear, this is improving, and newer model Volvos have not had all of the same problems. If I had to decide between the rebuilding of an older pre-computer controled diesel engine or buying a new computer controled engine, I would pay more to rebuild than the cost of new.
Also, not all D3-110 owners have suffered the "unsolved mysteries" that this engine has presented to others.
I hope this clears things up.
Best,
Bill Ex-BeBe
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:03 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
To all and specially to the new Amel Owners Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust. My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80. Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉) Keep loving sailing Hanspeter SM Owner with the same boat since 1995 SM16 Tamango 2 Von meinem iPad gesendet
Porter, I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke. Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard. Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day. I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit. As a side note: I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due
to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short. Good Luck!
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months.
Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique
I would imagine he'd have good insight.
Thanks again.
Porter
Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin
|
|
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200
rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust. My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2
Von meinem iPad gesendet
Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman
aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians.
The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts
portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months.
Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique
I would imagine he'd have good insight.
Thanks again.
Porter
Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time
history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin
|
|
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Hanspeter,
I think you must have misread what Jeff Spirit wrote. He advocates running a diesel hard for 15 minutes a day when you are using it. That is the same advice as your own ( increasing the revs to 2600-2800 for 5-10 minutes )
For those of us who have Supermaramus, 2800 revs is flat out, as Amel govern the revs to that figure.
Both of you are giving the same, good , advice.
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Hyeres
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: 20 February 2017 22:36:15
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200
rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust. My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2
Von meinem iPad gesendet
Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman
aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians.
The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts
portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months.
Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique
I would imagine he'd have good insight.
Thanks again.
Porter
Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time
history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin
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Alan Leslie
Yes and that is actually stated in the Yanmar manual :
(7) When operating the engine at low speed for long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours. Racing the Engine ♦Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever (MT-3) or the free throttle button (MV) and shift the engine speed from high t to low several times. →See 4.3.4(1) Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the combustion chamber and around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race the engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine.
Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Hanspeter, I believe you misunderstood what Jeff said. He recommended running it at a high speed for just 15 minutes a day . This has been told to me by many diesel mechanics over the years. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 5:36 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun... To all and specially to the new Amel Owners Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust. My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80. Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉) SM Owner with the same boat since 1995 I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke. Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard. Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day. I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit. I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day. The engine had been run every day for months. Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique I would imagine he'd have good insight. Hi Mark, Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.
Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.
Regards, John Vent de Soleil SM37 Le Marin
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Bob Grey
Guys as the owner of a 55 with the 110 D3, I do my own service, the dealer gave me the same advice about the motor when I said I usually only motor at 1500rpm, he said then I will glaze the bores and kill the turbo early. He also suggested full revs (2500) on my boat for short intervals to get the turbo and cylinders working at design heat and stresses.
Bob Grey Renaissance 3 Amel 55 #25
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On Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 21:46, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Bill, Your explanation of the d3 110 was exactly what the service manager explained. As a result of the inability to identify faults, often the problems encountered by d3 owners can be a trial and error path that can lead to major expenses, frustrations, and ultimately, a lack of confidence in your propulsion system. Not good. The service rep came down HIMSELF, as a curtisy (sp) to me, knowing that the d3 was a difficult animal to tame after shooting the crap for an hour about various diesel related bullcrap. He was aboard for 3 hours. The tech was there 3 times over 3 days and left scratching his head. Only trying to make a point here. Thanks for your input. You are a very intelligent and helpful man, and I appreciate that input!
On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 04:27 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Hanspeter,
I agree with your advice regarding RPM...and, if age had anything to do with participating in this forum, I would have to quit.
The issue with Volvo mechanics completely understanding the newer D3-110 is a common issue worldwide. Even the Volvo test equipment will not identify system faults in some cases. From what I know about this issue, it seems as though the initial programming of the onboard engine control computer has issues, but more than that, with the introduction of this engine Volvo mechanics had to move from being diesel engine mechanics in a completely analog and mechanical world to being diesel mechanics with an engine controled by software in an onboard computer connected to sensors and also connected electronically to mechanical valves and gates controlling fuel, air, timing, etc. It is very understandable that some owners of the D3-110 give up and replace the engine.
From what I hear, this is improving, and newer model Volvos have not had all of the same problems. If I had to decide between the rebuilding of an older pre-computer controled diesel engine or buying a new computer controled engine, I would pay more to rebuild than the cost of new.
Also, not all D3-110 owners have suffered the "unsolved mysteries" that this engine has presented to others.
I hope this clears things up.
Best,
Bill Ex-BeBe
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