Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?


eric freedman
 

HI,

If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?

He does not live too far away.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?

 

 

Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.

There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.

Craig, SN#68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!

 

I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.

The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.

Is it a standard feature?

What is its purpose?

The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?

 

 


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

HI,

If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?

He does not live too far away.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?

 

 

Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.

There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.

Craig, SN#68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@...> wrote :

Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!

 

I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.

The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.

Is it a standard feature?

What is its purpose?

The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?

 

 



Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute <olivierbeaute"at"gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

HI,

If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?

He does not live too far away.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?

 

 

Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.

There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.

Craig, SN#68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@...> wrote :

Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!

 

I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.

The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.

Is it a standard feature?

What is its purpose?

The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?

 

 



pedelannoy@gmail.com <no_reply@...>
 

Thks!


Beaute Olivier
 

Hello,

yes there are several Santorins (probably only sloops) that have a main mast with a backing aluminum bar (inside the mast) at the front bottom, and bolted with 4 stainless steel bolts (with SS and nylon washers).
It happened once that one of the first Santorins (sloop but not the one our unknown writer talks about)  came back from its maiden cruising navigation with the front bottom part of the main mast collapsed. The aluminum had suffered too much compression and showed slight wrinkles.
The vessel was not showing grounding signs, and no evidence of a bad mast setting (installing the mastfoot not flat on deck, but too much on the front edge) was found.
The cause was probably the vessel beating in strong winds and choppy seas, AND a too thin skin at the bottom of the extrusion. Why only at the bottom?
For those who are not familiar with aluminum extrusion process, and to make it short:
In the aluminum factory, the aluminum alloy, warmed up (but not melting, otherwise this is cast aluminum), is pushed through a matrix with the shape of the mast's profile.
This "tube" is then rolling on roller bars and "strechted" to make it "straight" and not twisted or curved.
During the stretching process, it is possible that the thickness of the aluminum shows too thin areas, or too much curve, or too much twist. The extrusion is thus rejected and recycled.
The faulty mast was probably made of an extrusion that "escaped" the checking process.
So, AMEL decided to install a piece of aluminum of about 50 cm length, 2cm thickness, with the shape of the curved front face of the mast, inside the mast, stepped on the mast's sole, and bolted with 4 S/S bolts.
I cannot tell how many Santorins were treated by AMEL like this. However, this may concern the Santorins sloop with masts of the same batch. AMEL had extrusions made by 20 or 30 units, so this may affect only the Santorins  sloops delivered with masts of the same batch.
This means maybe only 7 or 8 Santorins sloops of 1990/1991.
Why only sloops? Because the compression is higher with a sloop as there is more sail area on the mast than on a kectch main mast.

I'm sure AMEL did the right thing when they (Captain Amel and Jacques Carteau) decided to make this reinforcement system.
Just like when AMEL decided to make a recall on all the AMEL 54 main masts...

Now, for those who own a Santorin sloop and read this post, I'm sure you will have a close look at your mast foot !!

Like Craig, I can't wait to know who set this question... I may give him a lot more answers about the whole vessel (this is called a survey).
And this is definitely the right behavior on this forum.

Olivier.


On Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
HI,
If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?
He does not live too far away.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?
 
 
Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.
There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris
Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!
 
I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.
The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.
Is it a standard feature?
What is its purpose?
The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?
 
 




tfortner1975
 

Oliver,

Thanks for that amazing explanation. I've recently purchased SN27 which is in fact 90/91 era.  She has the 4 bolts.  

Trevor 
SV Iris, SN27
Phuket - on the hard 

On Jun 12, 2017, at 3:40 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello,

yes there are several Santorins (probably only sloops) that have a main mast with a backing aluminum bar (inside the mast) at the front bottom, and bolted with 4 stainless steel bolts (with SS and nylon washers).
It happened once that one of the first Santorins (sloop but not the one our unknown writer talks about)  came back from its maiden cruising navigation with the front bottom part of the main mast collapsed. The aluminum had suffered too much compression and showed slight wrinkles.
The vessel was not showing grounding signs, and no evidence of a bad mast setting (installing the mastfoot not flat on deck, but too much on the front edge) was found.
The cause was probably the vessel beating in strong winds and choppy seas, AND a too thin skin at the bottom of the extrusion. Why only at the bottom?
For those who are not familiar with aluminum extrusion process, and to make it short:
In the aluminum factory, the aluminum alloy, warmed up (but not melting, otherwise this is cast aluminum), is pushed through a matrix with the shape of the mast's profile.
This "tube" is then rolling on roller bars and "strechted" to make it "straight" and not twisted or curved.
During the stretching process, it is possible that the thickness of the aluminum shows too thin areas, or too much curve, or too much twist. The extrusion is thus rejected and recycled.
The faulty mast was probably made of an extrusion that "escaped" the checking process.
So, AMEL decided to install a piece of aluminum of about 50 cm length, 2cm thickness, with the shape of the curved front face of the mast, inside the mast, stepped on the mast's sole, and bolted with 4 S/S bolts.
I cannot tell how many Santorins were treated by AMEL like this. However, this may concern the Santorins sloop with masts of the same batch. AMEL had extrusions made by 20 or 30 units, so this may affect only the Santorins  sloops delivered with masts of the same batch.
This means maybe only 7 or 8 Santorins sloops of 1990/1991.
Why only sloops? Because the compression is higher with a sloop as there is more sail area on the mast than on a kectch main mast.

I'm sure AMEL did the right thing when they (Captain Amel and Jacques Carteau) decided to make this reinforcement system.
Just like when AMEL decided to make a recall on all the AMEL 54 main masts...

Now, for those who own a Santorin sloop and read this post, I'm sure you will have a close look at your mast foot !!

Like Craig, I can't wait to know who set this question... I may give him a lot more answers about the whole vessel (this is called a survey).
And this is definitely the right behavior on this forum.

Olivier.


On Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
HI,
If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?
He does not live too far away.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?
 
 
Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.
There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris
Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!
 
I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.
The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.
Is it a standard feature?
What is its purpose?
The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?
 
 




tfortner1975
 

Olivier, 

Just apologizing for misspelling your name. 

Cheers

On Jun 12, 2017, at 4:20 PM, tfortner1975@... wrote:

Oliver,

Thanks for that amazing explanation. I've recently purchased SN27 which is in fact 90/91 era.  She has the 4 bolts.  

Trevor 
SV Iris, SN27
Phuket - on the hard 

On Jun 12, 2017, at 3:40 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello,

yes there are several Santorins (probably only sloops) that have a main mast with a backing aluminum bar (inside the mast) at the front bottom, and bolted with 4 stainless steel bolts (with SS and nylon washers).
It happened once that one of the first Santorins (sloop but not the one our unknown writer talks about)  came back from its maiden cruising navigation with the front bottom part of the main mast collapsed. The aluminum had suffered too much compression and showed slight wrinkles.
The vessel was not showing grounding signs, and no evidence of a bad mast setting (installing the mastfoot not flat on deck, but too much on the front edge) was found.
The cause was probably the vessel beating in strong winds and choppy seas, AND a too thin skin at the bottom of the extrusion. Why only at the bottom?
For those who are not familiar with aluminum extrusion process, and to make it short:
In the aluminum factory, the aluminum alloy, warmed up (but not melting, otherwise this is cast aluminum), is pushed through a matrix with the shape of the mast's profile.
This "tube" is then rolling on roller bars and "strechted" to make it "straight" and not twisted or curved.
During the stretching process, it is possible that the thickness of the aluminum shows too thin areas, or too much curve, or too much twist. The extrusion is thus rejected and recycled.
The faulty mast was probably made of an extrusion that "escaped" the checking process.
So, AMEL decided to install a piece of aluminum of about 50 cm length, 2cm thickness, with the shape of the curved front face of the mast, inside the mast, stepped on the mast's sole, and bolted with 4 S/S bolts.
I cannot tell how many Santorins were treated by AMEL like this. However, this may concern the Santorins sloop with masts of the same batch. AMEL had extrusions made by 20 or 30 units, so this may affect only the Santorins  sloops delivered with masts of the same batch.
This means maybe only 7 or 8 Santorins sloops of 1990/1991.
Why only sloops? Because the compression is higher with a sloop as there is more sail area on the mast than on a kectch main mast.

I'm sure AMEL did the right thing when they (Captain Amel and Jacques Carteau) decided to make this reinforcement system.
Just like when AMEL decided to make a recall on all the AMEL 54 main masts...

Now, for those who own a Santorin sloop and read this post, I'm sure you will have a close look at your mast foot !!

Like Craig, I can't wait to know who set this question... I may give him a lot more answers about the whole vessel (this is called a survey).
And this is definitely the right behavior on this forum.

Olivier.


On Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
HI,
If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?
He does not live too far away.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?
 
 
Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.
There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris
Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!
 
I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.
The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.
Is it a standard feature?
What is its purpose?
The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?
 
 




pedelannoy@gmail.com <no_reply@...>
 

Bonjour Olivier
What an amazing Amel science you have! The boat in question is named Antioche and is up for sale in la Rochelle.
I have been looking at amels since i first saw them as a kid in le port d'hyères. I think these were big mangos at the time, and in remember thinking "how can someone make such ugly looking boats?" With time came a little bit of wisdom and i learnt the why and how of these amazing vessels.
I have the chance to be introduced to this boat by the nice guy at amel brokerage who sure knows what he is talking about. 
I may leave for a long cruise in the coming years and an amel will be on the list. But the time has not come yet and i wouldn't like to own an amel and let him collect moss in some la rochelle pontoon.
I really appreciat your knowledge and the time you took to answer.
Will reach you, in french, when the time comes.
A très bientôt
PE


david bruce
 

Hello, 
 We are on a shakedown of our new and beautiful SN006 Liesse, in South Of France, which although going very well and stunningly beautiful I have taken to calling the Motorterranean! 
 I do have the 4 ss bolts securing a large somewhat substantial hemispherical reinforcement bar on the leading edge of the mast.  Surrounding paint at bolt and inspection plate on stb side which is aluminum do show a bit of dissimilar metal paint lifting but it seems superficial and is on my list to address.  
I am curious about your statement about the compression loads on the Santorin sloop Olivier, as it is my understanding that it is the same mast as the ketch but with a longer boom.  On our boat the main sail is well short of the full length of the boom which I assumed is due to an inability of the mast to accommodate any more rolled sail. (clearly no more room when furler).  So it does appear the main is underpowered, is this typical of the sloops?  Also IF the boom is the only thing different on the sloop rig how does this serve increase the compression loads of the mast that you mentioned.  Finally are there any ongoing structural concerns regarding this mast reinforcement which those of us with these earlier boats should be aware?   Sorry to be so long winded.  

Thanks and best regards,  Dave Bruce   s/v Liesse. SN006, 


On Jun 12, 2017, at 10:40 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello,

yes there are several Santorins (probably only sloops) that have a main mast with a backing aluminum bar (inside the mast) at the front bottom, and bolted with 4 stainless steel bolts (with SS and nylon washers).
It happened once that one of the first Santorins (sloop but not the one our unknown writer talks about)  came back from its maiden cruising navigation with the front bottom part of the main mast collapsed. The aluminum had suffered too much compression and showed slight wrinkles.
The vessel was not showing grounding signs, and no evidence of a bad mast setting (installing the mastfoot not flat on deck, but too much on the front edge) was found.
The cause was probably the vessel beating in strong winds and choppy seas, AND a too thin skin at the bottom of the extrusion. Why only at the bottom?
For those who are not familiar with aluminum extrusion process, and to make it short:
In the aluminum factory, the aluminum alloy, warmed up (but not melting, otherwise this is cast aluminum), is pushed through a matrix with the shape of the mast's profile.
This "tube" is then rolling on roller bars and "strechted" to make it "straight" and not twisted or curved.
During the stretching process, it is possible that the thickness of the aluminum shows too thin areas, or too much curve, or too much twist. The extrusion is thus rejected and recycled.
The faulty mast was probably made of an extrusion that "escaped" the checking process.
So, AMEL decided to install a piece of aluminum of about 50 cm length, 2cm thickness, with the shape of the curved front face of the mast, inside the mast, stepped on the mast's sole, and bolted with 4 S/S bolts.
I cannot tell how many Santorins were treated by AMEL like this. However, this may concern the Santorins sloop with masts of the same batch. AMEL had extrusions made by 20 or 30 units, so this may affect only the Santorins  sloops delivered with masts of the same batch.
This means maybe only 7 or 8 Santorins sloops of 1990/1991.
Why only sloops? Because the compression is higher with a sloop as there is more sail area on the mast than on a kectch main mast.

I'm sure AMEL did the right thing when they (Captain Amel and Jacques Carteau) decided to make this reinforcement system.
Just like when AMEL decided to make a recall on all the AMEL 54 main masts...

Now, for those who own a Santorin sloop and read this post, I'm sure you will have a close look at your mast foot !!

Like Craig, I can't wait to know who set this question... I may give him a lot more answers about the whole vessel (this is called a survey).
And this is definitely the right behavior on this forum.

Olivier.


On Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
HI,
If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?
He does not live too far away.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?
 
 
Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.
There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris
Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!
 
I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.
The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.
Is it a standard feature?
What is its purpose?
The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?
 
 




Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Dave,

due to the age of your Santorin, your mainsail is probably not original, but I'm sure the sailmaker who made it, made a mainsail like the original, with the same dimensions.
The mainsail on a Santorin sloop is indeed bigger than on a ketch and I hope you are not sailing your sloop with a ketch mainsail !
The genoa on a Santorin sloop is indeed bigger than on a ketch.
The compression on the mast is made from the mainsail AND the genoa.
The compression on a Santorin sloop mast is indeed higher than on a ketch.

No, the boom is not the only difference...

I don't know how many Santorins are equipped with this reinforcement at mast foot.
I have never heard of another Santorin mast front bottom collapsing during my 19 years at AMEL and since 1990.
The recall was made in order to avoid new cases 
This part of the mast with stainless steel bolts should not corrode more than the other areas of the mast where stainless steel is close to painted aluminum (goose-neck, winches and spreaders fittings). So, just check corrosion around these bolts but also on the whole mast, and if you or your surveyor thinks it is too much, then it may be time for a new mast paint...

If you purchased your Santorin with the advice of a surveyor, what did he say about these bolts and the general corrosion of the mast paint?

Olivier.




On Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:48 AM, "david bruce davidcbruce57@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello, 
 We are on a shakedown of our new and beautiful SN006 Liesse, in South Of France, which although going very well and stunningly beautiful I have taken to calling the Motorterranean! 
 I do have the 4 ss bolts securing a large somewhat substantial hemispherical reinforcement bar on the leading edge of the mast.  Surrounding paint at bolt and inspection plate on stb side which is aluminum do show a bit of dissimilar metal paint lifting but it seems superficial and is on my list to address.  
I am curious about your statement about the compression loads on the Santorin sloop Olivier, as it is my understanding that it is the same mast as the ketch but with a longer boom.  On our boat the main sail is well short of the full length of the boom which I assumed is due to an inability of the mast to accommodate any more rolled sail. (clearly no more room when furler).  So it does appear the main is underpowered, is this typical of the sloops?  Also IF the boom is the only thing different on the sloop rig how does this serve increase the compression loads of the mast that you mentioned.  Finally are there any ongoing structural concerns regarding this mast reinforcement which those of us with these earlier boats should be aware?   Sorry to be so long winded.  

Thanks and best regards,  Dave Bruce   s/v Liesse. SN006, 


On Jun 12, 2017, at 10:40 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hello,

yes there are several Santorins (probably only sloops) that have a main mast with a backing aluminum bar (inside the mast) at the front bottom, and bolted with 4 stainless steel bolts (with SS and nylon washers).
It happened once that one of the first Santorins (sloop but not the one our unknown writer talks about)  came back from its maiden cruising navigation with the front bottom part of the main mast collapsed. The aluminum had suffered too much compression and showed slight wrinkles.
The vessel was not showing grounding signs, and no evidence of a bad mast setting (installing the mastfoot not flat on deck, but too much on the front edge) was found.
The cause was probably the vessel beating in strong winds and choppy seas, AND a too thin skin at the bottom of the extrusion. Why only at the bottom?
For those who are not familiar with aluminum extrusion process, and to make it short:
In the aluminum factory, the aluminum alloy, warmed up (but not melting, otherwise this is cast aluminum), is pushed through a matrix with the shape of the mast's profile.
This "tube" is then rolling on roller bars and "strechted" to make it "straight" and not twisted or curved.
During the stretching process, it is possible that the thickness of the aluminum shows too thin areas, or too much curve, or too much twist. The extrusion is thus rejected and recycled.
The faulty mast was probably made of an extrusion that "escaped" the checking process.
So, AMEL decided to install a piece of aluminum of about 50 cm length, 2cm thickness, with the shape of the curved front face of the mast, inside the mast, stepped on the mast's sole, and bolted with 4 S/S bolts.
I cannot tell how many Santorins were treated by AMEL like this. However, this may concern the Santorins sloop with masts of the same batch. AMEL had extrusions made by 20 or 30 units, so this may affect only the Santorins  sloops delivered with masts of the same batch.
This means maybe only 7 or 8 Santorins sloops of 1990/1991.
Why only sloops? Because the compression is higher with a sloop as there is more sail area on the mast than on a kectch main mast.

I'm sure AMEL did the right thing when they (Captain Amel and Jacques Carteau) decided to make this reinforcement system.
Just like when AMEL decided to make a recall on all the AMEL 54 main masts...

Now, for those who own a Santorin sloop and read this post, I'm sure you will have a close look at your mast foot !!

Like Craig, I can't wait to know who set this question... I may give him a lot more answers about the whole vessel (this is called a survey).
And this is definitely the right behavior on this forum.

Olivier.


On Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
HI,
If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?
He does not live too far away.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?
 
 
Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.
There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris
Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!
 
I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.
The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.
Is it a standard feature?
What is its purpose?
The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?
 
 






david bruce
 

Thanks for the information Olivier.  I am not concerned about the mast, survey did not mention the bolts.  I m sure, although well qualified but not an Amel specialist he assumed they were standard, ( you were unavailable at the time I m afraid), I ll address the paint as typical and worry about other things! 

The main foot is perhaps 1 meter short of full boom length and also estimate it is .5 meter from full hoist, but I just cannot see ever getting any more sail material into the mast.  

Although perhaps sacrilegious to ask, have you ever seen a conversion to mainsail slab reefing on an Amel, perhaps using a slide in track.  Although very early in my ownership, I have this nagging fear that getting that sail in in all but ideal conditions could prove a problem. 

Would you have a contact/recommendation for someone at Amel in Hyeres who might do a brief inspection and answer some questions I have about the systems and mystery breakers/switches etc.?  

Thanks for sharing all your expertise, it's very generous if you.  

Best Regards,  Dave Bruce,  s/v Liesse   SN 006  


On Jun 15, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Dave,

due to the age of your Santorin, your mainsail is probably not original, but I'm sure the sailmaker who made it, made a mainsail like the original, with the same dimensions.
The mainsail on a Santorin sloop is indeed bigger than on a ketch and I hope you are not sailing your sloop with a ketch mainsail !
The genoa on a Santorin sloop is indeed bigger than on a ketch.
The compression on the mast is made from the mainsail AND the genoa.
The compression on a Santorin sloop mast is indeed higher than on a ketch.

No, the boom is not the only difference...

I don't know how many Santorins are equipped with this reinforcement at mast foot.
I have never heard of another Santorin mast front bottom collapsing during my 19 years at AMEL and since 1990.
The recall was made in order to avoid new cases 
This part of the mast with stainless steel bolts should not corrode more than the other areas of the mast where stainless steel is close to painted aluminum (goose-neck, winches and spreaders fittings). So, just check corrosion around these bolts but also on the whole mast, and if you or your surveyor thinks it is too much, then it may be time for a new mast paint...

If you purchased your Santorin with the advice of a surveyor, what did he say about these bolts and the general corrosion of the mast paint?

Olivier.




On Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:48 AM, "david bruce davidcbruce57@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hello, 
 We are on a shakedown of our new and beautiful SN006 Liesse, in South Of France, which although going very well and stunningly beautiful I have taken to calling the Motorterranean! 
 I do have the 4 ss bolts securing a large somewhat substantial hemispherical reinforcement bar on the leading edge of the mast.  Surrounding paint at bolt and inspection plate on stb side which is aluminum do show a bit of dissimilar metal paint lifting but it seems superficial and is on my list to address.  
I am curious about your statement about the compression loads on the Santorin sloop Olivier, as it is my understanding that it is the same mast as the ketch but with a longer boom.  On our boat the main sail is well short of the full length of the boom which I assumed is due to an inability of the mast to accommodate any more rolled sail. (clearly no more room when furler).  So it does appear the main is underpowered, is this typical of the sloops?  Also IF the boom is the only thing different on the sloop rig how does this serve increase the compression loads of the mast that you mentioned.  Finally are there any ongoing structural concerns regarding this mast reinforcement which those of us with these earlier boats should be aware?   Sorry to be so long winded.  

Thanks and best regards,  Dave Bruce   s/v Liesse. SN006, 


On Jun 12, 2017, at 10:40 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hello,

yes there are several Santorins (probably only sloops) that have a main mast with a backing aluminum bar (inside the mast) at the front bottom, and bolted with 4 stainless steel bolts (with SS and nylon washers).
It happened once that one of the first Santorins (sloop but not the one our unknown writer talks about)  came back from its maiden cruising navigation with the front bottom part of the main mast collapsed. The aluminum had suffered too much compression and showed slight wrinkles.
The vessel was not showing grounding signs, and no evidence of a bad mast setting (installing the mastfoot not flat on deck, but too much on the front edge) was found.
The cause was probably the vessel beating in strong winds and choppy seas, AND a too thin skin at the bottom of the extrusion. Why only at the bottom?
For those who are not familiar with aluminum extrusion process, and to make it short:
In the aluminum factory, the aluminum alloy, warmed up (but not melting, otherwise this is cast aluminum), is pushed through a matrix with the shape of the mast's profile.
This "tube" is then rolling on roller bars and "strechted" to make it "straight" and not twisted or curved.
During the stretching process, it is possible that the thickness of the aluminum shows too thin areas, or too much curve, or too much twist. The extrusion is thus rejected and recycled.
The faulty mast was probably made of an extrusion that "escaped" the checking process.
So, AMEL decided to install a piece of aluminum of about 50 cm length, 2cm thickness, with the shape of the curved front face of the mast, inside the mast, stepped on the mast's sole, and bolted with 4 S/S bolts.
I cannot tell how many Santorins were treated by AMEL like this. However, this may concern the Santorins sloop with masts of the same batch. AMEL had extrusions made by 20 or 30 units, so this may affect only the Santorins  sloops delivered with masts of the same batch.
This means maybe only 7 or 8 Santorins sloops of 1990/1991.
Why only sloops? Because the compression is higher with a sloop as there is more sail area on the mast than on a kectch main mast.

I'm sure AMEL did the right thing when they (Captain Amel and Jacques Carteau) decided to make this reinforcement system.
Just like when AMEL decided to make a recall on all the AMEL 54 main masts...

Now, for those who own a Santorin sloop and read this post, I'm sure you will have a close look at your mast foot !!

Like Craig, I can't wait to know who set this question... I may give him a lot more answers about the whole vessel (this is called a survey).
And this is definitely the right behavior on this forum.

Olivier.


On Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
No bolts on my sloop mast foot. SN 24 1990

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:02 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I agree with Eric. Contact Olivier Beaute gmail.com>

I also agree with Craig...I do not believe those bolts are original.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
HI,
If you are considering this boat, why don’t you contact  Olivier to look at the boat?
He does not live too far away.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sloop rig santorin, Stainless steel bolts on the mast foot?
 
 
Perhaps you could introduce yourself - are you shopping for an Amel? What's your name? home port, etc.
There are no bolts on the forward face of the original Santorin mast.
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris
Hi every body and thank you in advance for sharin your knowledge!
 
I have visited a 1991 sloop rigged Santorin in La Rochelle couple days ago.
The boat is fine. But i have been very surprised by discovering on the forward face of the mast foot three big stainless steel bolts.
Is it a standard feature?
What is its purpose?
The paint on the mast was tearing around these bolts, is this a sign of ss/aluminium bad neighbourhood?