|
John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything.
2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't fire there
shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
Regards, John
John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Charleston SC
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng
ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen<
/div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh
at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Mark Erdos
Pat,
Test the battery
with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery
to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell
you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Grenada
www.creampuff.us
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
John,The
11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens
not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off
the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm
button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Not sure which model you have but
on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and
motor.
Reaching back to my
days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things
work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are
speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at
the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of
OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not
enough current to do anything.
2. If the battery is failing it
might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.
When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,
was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't
fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8
after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you
already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried
are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the
engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you
know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
---In amelyachtowners@...,
wrote :
For some time I have had an
intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery
switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was
coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine
would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I
would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago
, I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a
sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking
forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I
determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on
back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan
comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures
11. 8
After short time , turn key and
fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run
, gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v
house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at
the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even
come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down
after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid
, both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever
the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the
key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this
switch located ?
Both engines would not share this
switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same
ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on
a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the
positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh at to check or
what may be my problem would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat,
Test the battery
with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery
to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell
you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Grenada
John,The
11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens
not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off
the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm
button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but
on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and
motor.
Reaching back to my
days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things
work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are
speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at
the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of
OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not
enough current to do anything.
2. If the battery is failing it
might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.
When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,
was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't
fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8
after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you
already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried
are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the
engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you
know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
For some time I have had an
intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery
switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was
coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine
would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I
would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago
, I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a
sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking
forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I
determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on
back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan
comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures
11. 8
After short time , turn key and
fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run
, gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v
house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at
the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even
come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down
after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid
, both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever
the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the
key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this
switch located ?
Both engines would not share this
switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same
ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on
a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the
positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh at to check or
what may be my problem would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Ken Powers <sailingaquarius@...>
Just because you get 12.6 volts at a point, does not mean everything is OK. If your terminals are dirty, you can get 12.6 volts no problem, but when you try to get some current through those dirty terminals you will just hear a little spark....
Sounds like something is shorting out your system when you try to start.
Starter motor, and the solenoid would be the two pieces I would look at.
Question - if you disconnect all power to the Volvo, can you start your Genset.
On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:36 AM, "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:
Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat,
Test the battery
with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery
to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell
you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Grenada
John,The
11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens
not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off
the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm
button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but
on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and
motor.
Reaching back to my
days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things
work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are
speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at
the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of
OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not
enough current to do anything.
2. If the battery is failing it
might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.
When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,
was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't
fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8
after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you
already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried
are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the
engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you
know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
For some time I have had an
intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery
switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was
coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine
would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I
would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago
, I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a
sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking
forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I
determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on
back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan
comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures
11. 8
After short time , turn key and
fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run
, gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v
house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at
the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even
come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down
after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid
, both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever
the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the
key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this
switch located ?
Both engines would not share this
switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same
ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on
a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the
positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh at to check or
what may be my problem would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Hi Pat, I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. Battery terminals a good starting point Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat, Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it. With best regards, Mark Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Grenada John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up. Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor. Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts: 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything. 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed? If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged? I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms. For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ; Neither engine will start. Have 12.6 V at both solenoids Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead. After that Voltage only measures 11. 8 After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div> Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what. The glow plug lite does not even come on. fuse is good on back side of Gen. Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch. It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ? Both engines would not share this switch , would they. Do both engines share the same ground? To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Ken, I am going out to the boat now and am going to start cleaning all the terminals on the battery switches. I need to eliminate the most obvious corrosion . I have not disconnected the positive from the engine , I can do that easy enough.
Thanks
Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Powers sailingaquarius@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 1:16 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Just because you get 12.6 volts at a point, does not mean everything is OK. If your terminals are dirty, you can get 12.6 volts no problem, but when you try to get some current through those dirty terminals you will just hear a little spark....
Sounds like something is shorting out your system when you try to start.
Starter motor, and the solenoid would be the two pieces I would look at.
Question - if you disconnect all power to the Volvo, can y
ou start your Genset.
Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat,
Test the battery
with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery
to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell
you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Grenada
John,The
11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens
not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off
the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm
button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but
on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and
motor.
Reaching back to my
days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things
work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are
speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at
the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of
OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not
enough current to do anything.
2. If the battery is failing it
might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.
When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,
was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't
fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8
after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you
already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried
are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the
engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you
know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
For some time I have had an
intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery
switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was
coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine
would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I
would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago
, I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a
sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking
forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I
determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on
back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan
comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures
11. 8
After short time , turn key and
fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run
, gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v
house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at
the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even
come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down
after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid
, both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever
the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the
key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this
switch located ?
Both engines would not share this
switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same
ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on
a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the
positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh at to check or
what may be my problem would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne .
Thanks,
Pat SM#123
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat,
I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. Battery terminals a good starting point
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Mark, I ordered
a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Re: Engines not starting
Pat,
Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Grenada
John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have
but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything.
;
2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then
point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
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Hi Eric, I think this should be addressed to Pat though. I believe it is both the gen set and main engine not starting so that is likely to rule out starter motor connections, solenoids etc. Unless by some fluke they all are out on both engines. Possible but unlikely. It goes back to being some connection common to both circuits. That rules out a lot. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 09:44 "kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny, I would have someone turn the key and feel if the Valeo solenoid closes. If it does I would check the engine start solenoid probably near the Valeo solenoid. You could also have a bad connection in the Yanmar wiring . You could also have a bad starter switch. All of this can be checked with a voltmeter. Good luck with this, I had the same problem and wound up rewiring the entire engine. My boat is a more current than yours so I am only speaking of my boat with a Yanmar . Fair Winds Eric SM 376 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:38 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting To: amelyachtowners@... > Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. > The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. > I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely > to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative > side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to > get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne . > Thanks, > Pat SM#123 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] > To: amelyachtowners > Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm > Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > > > > Hi Pat, > I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you > said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start > do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and > then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which > gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that > by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound > like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are > separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. > Battery terminals a good starting point > Regards > Danny > SM 299 Ocean Pearl > > On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... > [amelyachtowners]" wrote: > > > Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to > do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it > being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both > are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , > there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or > the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad > connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, > answer , very little. > > > Thanks, > Pat > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] > To: amelyachtowners > Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am > Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > > > > Pat, > > Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load > tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store > for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the > battery has enough oomph left in it. > > > > With best regards, > > Mark > > Skipper > Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 > Currently cruising - Grenada > www.creampuff.us > > > > From: amelyachtowners@... > [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:00 AM > To: amelyachtowners@... > Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > > John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start > , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I > can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is > hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button > buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up. > > Thanks ,Pat > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] > To: amelyachtowners > Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am > Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one > common starting battery for both the generator and motor. > > Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a > couple of thoughts: > > > > 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is > not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the > battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at > the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the > symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start > there is not enough current to do anything. ; > > > > 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage > but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after > attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while > starting or after the attempts are completed? > > > > If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a > lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would > then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a > different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are > good and properly charged? > > > > I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take > a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything > that makes sense for these symptoms. > > > > Regards, John > > > > John Clark > > SV Annie SM 37 > > Charleston SC > > > > ---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote : > > For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my > Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few > times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental > or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine > would not start and I discovered that the generator would not > start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a > year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an > elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail > to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking > forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. > Below is what I determined last night ; > > Neither engine will start. > > Battery shows 12.6 V > > Have 12.6 V at both solenoids > > Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches > > When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start > and fan and gauges go dead. > > After that Voltage only measures 11. 8 > > After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly > > Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm > button pushed , nothing > > I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things > happen< /div> > > Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires > , don't know which does what. > > The glow plug lite does not even come on. > > fuse is good on back side of Gen. > > Solenoids don't click > > Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times > , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch. > > > > It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is > affecting both engines > > My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is > momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ? > > Both engines would not share this switch , would they. > > Do both engines share the same ground? > > To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on > the back of the battery switches between the positive and > negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids > > > > Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would > be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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Hi Pat, That's the good side of problems, it gets us on to the forum to renew friendships. Great to maintain contact from so far away. Regards Danny
On 26 July 2017 at 09:38 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne . Thanks, Pat SM#123 -----Original Message----- From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat, I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. Battery terminals a good starting point Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat, Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it. With best regards, Mark Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Grenada John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up. Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor. Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts: 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything. ; 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed? If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged? I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms. For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ; Neither engine will start. Have 12.6 V at both solenoids Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead. After that Voltage only measures 11. 8 After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div> Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what. The glow plug lite does not even come on. fuse is good on back side of Gen. Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch. It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ? Both engines would not share this switch , would they. Do both engines share the same ground? To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
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Danny , Yea email is great .Diane and I would love to see you guys again, I thought it would happen under sail one day , but with four grandchildren in the last two years , it may have to be under wings. I love N.Z. and want to revisit it someday. Do you know where the negative solenoid is located , I want to check the contacts , although that would not explain the Gen. set not starting.
Thanks,
Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 7:09 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat,
That's the good side of problems, it gets us on to the forum to renew friendships. Great to maintain contact from so far away.
Regards
Danny
On 26 July 2017 at 09:38 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne .
Thanks,<
/span>
Pat SM#123
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat,
I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and then not fail. You've tried another battery with n
o change which gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. Battery terminals a good starting point
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but
who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Ame
l Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat,
Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Grenada
John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything. ;
2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the batt
ery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. B
elow is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /d
iv>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
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Danny, Your correct , it does rule out a lot . What does it leave , that is in common to both. The positive out of the battery switch disconnect and the negative out of the battery switch disconnect . Confirming good battery state . Can anyone think of anything else common to both engines ? Another Question , tonight I tried to remove the red handle on the battery switch , there is a small hole like for a set screw , you cannot see into the hole , I tried every allen wrench , none seemed to fit . Does anyone know how to remove the red handles ?
Thanks,
Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 7:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Eric, I think this should be addressed to Pat though. I believe it is both the gen set and main engine not starting so that is likely to rule out starter motor connections, solenoids etc. Unless by some fluke they all are out on both engines. Possible but unlikely. It goes back to being some connection common to both circuits. That rules out a lot.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 09:44 " kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny,
I would have someone turn the key and feel if the Valeo solenoid closes.
If it does I would check the engine start solenoid probably near the Valeo solenoid.
You could also have a bad connection in the Yanmar
wiring .
You could also have a bad starter switch.
All of this can be checked with a voltmeter.
Good luck with this, I had the same problem and wound up rewiring the entire engine.
My boat is a more current than yours so I am only speaking of my boat with a Yanmar .
Fair Winds
Eric
SM 376
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
To: amelyachtowners@...
> Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months.
> The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally.
> I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely
> to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative
> side. Thats where I will start , going
out to the boat now to
> get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne .
> Thanks,
> Pat SM#123
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
> To: amelyachtowners
> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Pat,
> I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you
> said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start
> do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and
> then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which
> gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that
> by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound
> like a bad conne
ction. Not the starting switch because there are
> separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection.
> Battery terminals a good starting point
> Regards
> Danny
> SM 299 Ocean Pearl
>
> On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
> [amelyachtowners]" wrote:
>
>
> Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to
> do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it
> being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both
> are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is ,
> there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or
> the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad
> connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know,
> answer , very little.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
>
>
&
#62; -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
> To: amelyachtowners
> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
> Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Pat,
>
> Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load
> tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store
> for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the
> battery has enough oomph left in it.
>
>
>
> With best regards,
>
> Mark
>
> Skipper
> Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
> Currently cruising - Grenada
> www.creampuff.us
>
>
>
> From: amelyachtowners@...
> [ mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 201
7 10:00 AM
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
>
> John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start
> , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I
> can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is
> hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button
> buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
>
> Thanks ,Pat
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]
> To: amelyachtowners
> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
> Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
> Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one
> common starting battery for both the generat
or and motor.
>
> Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a
> couple of thoughts:
>
>
>
> 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is
> not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the
> battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at
> the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the
> symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start
> there is not enough current to do anything. ;
>
>
>
> 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage
> but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after
> attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while
> starting or after the attempts are completed?
>
>
>
> If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a
> lot of
drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would
> then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a
> different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are
> good and properly charged?
>
>
>
> I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take
> a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything
> that makes sense for these symptoms.
>
>
>
> Regards, John
>
>
>
> John Clark
>
> SV Annie SM 37
>
> Charleston SC
>
>
>
> ---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
>
> For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my
> Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few
> times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental
> or not. Last night we went ou
t to go for a sail and the eng ine
> would not start and I discovered that the generator would not
> start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a
> year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an
> elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail
> to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking
> forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days.
> Below is what I determined last night ;
>
> Neither engine will start.
>
> Battery shows 12.6 V
>
> Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
>
> Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
>
> When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start
> and fan and gauges go dead.
>
> After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
>
> After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
>
> Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm
> button pushed , nothing
>
> I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things
> happen< /div>
>
> Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires
> , don't know which does what.
>
> The glow plug lite does not even come on.
>
> fuse is good on back side of Gen.
>
> Solenoids don't click
>
> Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times
> , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
>
>
>
> It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is
> affecting both engines
>
> My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is
> momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
>
> Both en
gines would not share this switch , would they.
>
> Do both engines share the same ground?
>
> To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on
> the back of the battery switches between the positive and
> negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would
> be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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davidlambertsen <no_reply@...>
I had the same problem on my 1989 Maramu (no generator) until I replaced the main battery on/off switches, which I obtained from Amel. The switches were tired and current wasn't passing through sufficiently to operate the solenoid and starter. Failure to crank was intermittent. I think the red handles just pull off.
David Lambertsen s/v Have Fun! 1989 Maramu 258
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Hi Pat, sorry you wont make NZ by sail, its a great voyage across the Pacific. Some great down wind sailing in big Pacific swells. We did 3200 miles in 17 days and had three days with no wind. These SM have long legs. I think Kent is building up a head of steam to do it. Sorry, cant give you the solenoid position. I would do a wire trace starting with the battery terminals and working through. Regards Danny
On 26 July 2017 at 13:02 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Danny , Yea email is great .Diane and I would love to see you guys again, I thought it would happen under sail one day , but with four grandchildren in the last two years , it may have to be under wings. I love N.Z. and want to revisit it someday. Do you know where the negative solenoid is located , I want to check the contacts , although that would not explain the Gen. set not starting. Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 7:09 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat, That's the good side of problems, it gets us on to the forum to renew friendships. Great to maintain contact from so far away. Regards Danny On 26 July 2017 at 09:38 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne . Thanks,< /span> Pat SM#123 -----Original Message----- From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat, I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and then not fail. You've tried another battery with n o change which gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. Battery terminals a good starting point Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am Subject: RE: [Ame l Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat, Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it. With best regards, Mark Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Grenada John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up. Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor. Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts: 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything. ; 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed? If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the batt ery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged? I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms. For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. B elow is what I determined last night ; Neither engine will start. Have 12.6 V at both solenoids Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead. After that Voltage only measures 11. 8 After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /d iv> Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what. The glow plug lite does not even come on. fuse is good on back side of Gen. Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch. It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ? Both engines would not share this switch , would they. Do both engines share the same ground? To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
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Hi Pat. I think Ocean Pearl is set up differently. She has two starting batteries in the engine room, one each for the gen set and main engine. There are switches for each and a connecting switch to join them. great if one battery fails. If I suspected a faulty switch I would remove the wires and by pass it to do a test. Take off the input and output wires on the switch and connect them would do it because that is what the switch does. The switch would be a suspect as there is a lot of current going through it and could have damaged the contacts in the switch, or the terminals the wires connect to.. With battery terminals don't be fooled by them looking clean. A good rub with a bit of 80 grit sandpaper on the terminals and on the inside of the connector is good. I'm sure you know all this. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 13:15 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Danny, Your correct , it does rule out a lot . What does it leave , that is in common to both. The positive out of the battery switch disconnect and the negative out of the battery switch disconnect . Confirming good battery state . Can anyone think of anything else common to both engines ? Another Question , tonight I tried to remove the red handle on the battery switch , there is a small hole like for a set screw , you cannot see into the hole , I tried every allen wrench , none seemed to fit . Does anyone know how to remove the red handles ? Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 7:37 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Eric, I think this should be addressed to Pat though. I believe it is both the gen set and main engine not starting so that is likely to rule out starter motor connections, solenoids etc. Unless by some fluke they all are out on both engines. Possible but unlikely. It goes back to being some connection common to both circuits. That rules out a lot. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl On 26 July 2017 at 09:44 " kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny, I would have someone turn the key and feel if the Valeo solenoid closes. If it does I would check the engine start solenoid probably near the Valeo solenoid. You could also have a bad connection in the Yanmar wiring . You could also have a bad starter switch. All of this can be checked with a voltmeter. Good luck with this, I had the same problem and wound up rewiring the entire engine. My boat is a more current than yours so I am only speaking of my boat with a Yanmar . Fair Winds Eric SM 376 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:38 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting To: amelyachtowners@... > Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. > The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. > I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely > to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative > side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to > get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne . > Thanks, > Pat SM#123 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] > To: amelyachtowners > Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm > Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > > > > Hi Pat, > I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you > said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start > do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and > then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which > gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that > by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound > like a bad conne ction. Not the starting switch because there are > separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. > Battery terminals a good starting point > Regards > Danny > SM 299 Ocean Pearl > > On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... > [amelyachtowners]" wrote: > > > Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to > do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it > being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both > are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , > there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or > the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad > connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, > answer , very little. > > > Thanks, > Pat > > > & #62; -----Original Message----- > From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] > To: amelyachtowners > Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am > Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > > > > Pat, > > Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load > tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store > for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the > battery has enough oomph left in it. > > > > With best regards, > > Mark > > Skipper > Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 > Currently cruising - Grenada > www.creampuff.us > > > > From: amelyachtowners@... > [ mailto:amelyachtowners@...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 201 7 10:00 AM > To: amelyachtowners@... > Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > > John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start > , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I > can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is > hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button > buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up. > > Thanks ,Pat > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] > To: amelyachtowners > Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am > Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting > > > > > Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one > common starting battery for both the generat or and motor. > > Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a > couple of thoughts: > > > > 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is > not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the > battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at > the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the > symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start > there is not enough current to do anything. ; > > > > 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage > but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after > attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while > starting or after the attempts are completed? > > > > If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a > lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would > then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a > different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are > good and properly charged? > > > > I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take > a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything > that makes sense for these symptoms. > > > > Regards, John > > > > John Clark > > SV Annie SM 37 > > Charleston SC > > > > ---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote : > > For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my > Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few > times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental > or not. Last night we went ou t to go for a sail and the eng ine > would not start and I discovered that the generator would not > start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a > year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an > elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail > to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking > forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. > Below is what I determined last night ; > > Neither engine will start. > > Battery shows 12.6 V > > Have 12.6 V at both solenoids > > Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches > > When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start > and fan and gauges go dead. > > After that Voltage only measures 11. 8 > > After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly > > Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm > button pushed , nothing > > I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things > happen< /div> > > Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires > , don't know which does what. > > The glow plug lite does not even come on. > > fuse is good on back side of Gen. > > Solenoids don't click > > Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times > , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch. > > > > It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is > affecting both engines > > My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is > momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ? > > Both en gines would not share this switch , would they. > > Do both engines share the same ground? > > To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on > the back of the battery switches between the positive and > negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids > > > > Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would > be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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sailormon <kimberlite@...>
Hi Pat, When I made mention of the negative circuit on the engine I did not know you had the same problem with the genset. I would check the battery first and then everything going to the genset and engine. At some point the wires split to go to either the genset or the engine. The problem could be at the junction or anywhere between that point and the battery. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little. Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it. Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Grenada John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up. Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor. Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts: 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything. 2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed? If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged? I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms. For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ; Neither engine will start. Have 12.6 V at both solenoids Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead. After that Voltage only measures 11. 8 After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div> Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what. The glow plug lite does not even come on. fuse is good on back side of Gen. Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch. It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ? Both engines would not share this switch , would they. Do both engines share the same ground? To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
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Alan Leslie
Hi Danny That's pretty unusual I think. Most SMs have one start battery at the fwd end of the house bank under the sea berth which starts both the engine and the genset. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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David, Thats interesting , because when the engine would not start over the last several months on occasion , I found if I switched the switches on and off several times the engine would start . I figured that the contacts inside were poor , but then was never sure if it was a coincident . I tried pulling on the handles , there is a small hole in the handle , I figure with a pin to hold the handle on.
Thanks,
Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: davidlambertsen
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
I had the same problem on my 1989 Maramu (no generator) until I replaced the main battery on/off switches, which I obtained from Amel. The switches were tired and current wasn't passing through sufficiently to operate the solenoid and starter. Failure to crank was intermittent. I think the red handles just pull off.
David Lambertsen
s/v Have Fun!
1989 Maramu 258
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Danny , That is a great ave. run about 190 . Kent drove up a couple of weeks ago and had dinner with us and discussed his plans. Don't tell him, but I plan to stow away in his aft lazarette . My understanding is that when you turn the key , it closes a solenoid that connects the neg. side to the starter solenoid. I would like to know where it is , as it could be could fail someday. If my understanding is incorrect , I would appreciate it if someone would tell me I am mistaken . This would be on a Volvo TMD 22A.
Thanks,
Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Jul 26, 2017 12:05 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat,
sorry you wont make NZ by sail, its a great voyage across the Pacific. Some great down wind sailing in big Pacific swells. We did 3200 miles in 17 days and had three days with no wind. These SM have long legs. I think Kent is building up a head of steam to do it.
Sorry, cant give you the solenoid position. I would do a wire trace starting with the battery terminals and working through.
Regards
Danny
On 26 July 2017 at 13:02 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny , Yea email is great .Diane and I would love to see you guys again, I thought it would happen under sail one day , but with four grandchildren in the last two years , it may have to be under wings. I
love N.Z. and want to revisit it someday. Do you know where the negative solenoid is located , I want to check the contacts , although that would not explain the Gen. set not starting.
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 7:09 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat,
That's the good side of problems, it gets us on to the forum to renew friendships. Great to maintain contact from so far away.
Regards
Danny
On 26 July 2017 at 09:38 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months. The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally. I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to get started
. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne .
Thanks,< /span>
Pat SM#123
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat,
I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and then not fail. You've tried another battery with n o change which gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound like a bad connection. Not the starting switch because there are separate for each engine. It has to be a common connection. Battery terminals a good starting point
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Ame l Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Pat,
Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if
the battery has enough oomph left in it.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Grenada
John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making go
od contact. I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start there is not enough current to do anything. ;
2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?
If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the batt ery. That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?
I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. B elow is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will st
art.
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /d iv>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines
My understand
ing is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
<
/div>
Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
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Danny , I do have a different set up . One starter battery shared with both engines , installed next to the house batteries. I plan to bypass the switch today and see if its the switch . Problem is that I can't access the neg. wires below the positive switch , without removing the positive switch and I can't get the red handle off , just to tight to take off and clean all the heavy wires on the neg. side.
Thanks,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Jul 26, 2017 12:38 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Pat. I think Ocean Pearl is set up differently. She has two starting batteries in the engine room, one each for the gen set and main engine. There are switches for each and a connecting switch to join them. great if one battery fails. If I suspected a faulty switch I would remove the wires and by pass it to do a test. Take off the input and output wires on the switch and connect them would do it because that is what the switch does. The switch would be a suspect as there is a lot of current going through it and could have damaged the contacts in the switch, or the terminals the wires connect to..
With battery terminals don't be fooled by them looking clean. A good rub with a bit of 80 grit sandpaper on the terminals and on the inside of the connector is good. I'm sure you know all this.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 13:15 "Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny, Your correct , it does rule out a lot . What does it leave , that is in common to both. The positive out of the battery switch disconnect and the negative out of the battery switch disconnect . Confirming good battery state . Can anyone think of anything else common to both engines ? Another Question , tonight I tried to remove the red handle on the battery switch , there is a small hole like for a set screw , you cannot see into the hole , I tried every allen wrench , none seemed to fit . Does anyone know how to remove the red handles ?
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Messa
ge-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners < amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 7:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
Hi Eric, I think this should be addressed to Pat though. I believe it is both the gen set and main engine not starting so that is likely to rule out starter motor connections, solenoids etc. Unless by some fluke they all are out on both engines. Possible but unlikely. It goes back to being some connection common to both circuits. That rules out a lot.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 26 July 2017 at 09:44 " kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Danny,
I would have someone turn the key and feel if the Valeo solenoid closes.
If it does I would check the engine start solenoid probably near the Valeo solenoid.
You could also have a bad connection in the Yanmar wiring .
You could also have a bad starter switch.
All of this can be checked with a voltmeter.
Good luck with this, I had the same problem and wound up rewiring the entire engine.
My boat is a more curr
ent than yours so I am only speaking of my boat with a Yanmar .
Fair Winds
Eric
SM 376
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
To: amelyachtowners@...
> Danny, The intermittent starting problem I have had for months.
> The engine would do nothing or it would start right up normally.
> I switched out batteries , no jumper . I think it is most likely
> to be a poor connection somewhere and probably on the negative
> side. Thats where I will start , going out to the boat now to
> get started. Good to hear from you , say Hi ! to Yvonne .
> Thanks,
> Pat SM#123
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
> To: amelyachtowners
> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Pat,
> I spin through the posts deleting after read but I believe you
> said the motors start sometimes, sometimes not. When they start
> do they spin as per normal or groan. Batteries dont fail and
> then not fail. You've tried another battery with no change which
> gives a pretty positive lead to it not being battery. Was that
> by jumper lead or by switching via terminals? The symptoms sound
> like a bad conne ction. Not the starting switch because there are
> separate for each engine.
It has to be a common connection.
> Battery terminals a good starting point
> Regards
> Danny
> SM 299 Ocean Pearl
>
> On 26 July 2017 at 04:36 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
> [amelyachtowners]" wrote:
>
>
> Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to
> do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it
> being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both
> are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is ,
> there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or
> the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad
> connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know,
> answer , very little.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
>
>
& #62; -----Original
Message-----
> From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
> To: amelyachtowners
> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
> Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Pat,
>
> Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load
> tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store
> for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the
> battery has enough oomph left in it.
>
>
>
> With best regards,
>
> Mark
>
> Skipper
> Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
> Currently cruising - Grenada
> www.creampuff.us
>
>
>
> From: amelyachtowners@...
> [ mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 201 7 10:00 AM
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
>
> John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start
> , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I
> can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is
> hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button
> buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
>
> Thanks ,Pat
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john.bioh
ead@... [amelyachtowners]
> To: amelyachtowners
> Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
> Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
>
>
>
>
> Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one
> common starting battery for both the generat or and motor.
>
> Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a
> couple of thoughts:
>
>
>
> 1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is
> not making good contact. I assume you are speaking of the
> battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at
> the helm. A high resistance connection could cause the
> symptoms of OK voltage without load, but when you try to start
> there is not enough current to do anything. ;
>
>
>
> 2. If the battery is failing it m
ight be able to show OK voltage
> but not have capacity to start the engines. When you said after
> attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8, was that while
> starting or after the attempts are completed?
>
>
>
> If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a
> lot of drain on the battery. That 11.8 after an attempt would
> then point me toward a bad battery. But you already tried a
> different battery. Are you sure all the batteries tried are
> good and properly charged?
>
>
>
> I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take
> a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything
> that makes sense for these symptoms.
>
>
>
> Regards, John
>
>
>
> John Clark
>
> SV Annie SM 37
&#
62;
> Charleston SC
>
>
>
> ---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
>
> For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my
> Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few
> times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental
> or not. Last night we went ou t to go for a sail and the eng ine
> would not start and I discovered that the generator would not
> start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a
> year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an
> elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail
> to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking
> forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days.
> Below is what I determined last night ;
> > Neither engine will start.
>
> Battery shows 12.6 V
>
> Have 12.6 V at both solenoids
>
> Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
>
> When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start
> and fan and gauges go dead.
>
> After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
>
> After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
>
> Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm
> button pushed , nothing
>
> I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things
> happen< /div>
>
> Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires
> , don't know which does what.
>
> The glow plug lite does not even come on.
>
> fuse is good on back side of Gen.
>
> Solenoids don'
t click
>
> Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times
> , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
>
>
>
> It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is
> affecting both engines
>
> My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is
> momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
>
> Both en gines would not share this switch , would they.
>
> Do both engines share the same ground?
>
> To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on
> the back of the battery switches between the positive and
> negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would
> be appreciated.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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