Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration


Ian Shepherd
 

Hello Miles,

I use the poles whenever I can and find the downwind performance to be very good. You will leave most boats behind if you pole out the genoa once the apparent wind angle is 120 degrees or more. A word of caution. Amel now recommend that if you use a poled out genoa in strong winds you should also rig the pole on the opposite side to minimize the bending load on the side of the mainmast. If you do this, you will wish for the genoa sheets to be 2M longer per side, else it will be a stretch to secure them to the upwind winch.

In light winds you will be able to continue sailing downwind whilst others can't, unless they deploy a cruising chute or spinnaker. When those sails collapse due to lack of wind, you genoa will remain proudly erect ready to catch any puff that comes along. And you don't have to watch it every second as you would a free flying sail.

The ballooner is a great sail and can be rigged single handed with a little ingenuity. There is a trap you can fall into though. When the wind picks up and you need to furl both sails bit by bit and you face a course change that no longer supports the twin head sail configuration, you have to completely unfurl again in order to get the ballooner down. When I made my single handed voyage from Shannon to Greenland I have a marvellous 24 hour run under ballooner and genoa. Then the wind picked up and changed direction and I was forced unfurl to get the wind down in winds of now 22kts. It was somewhat of a struggle. The lesson learnt was that it is wise to get the ballooner down early if you think that you will no be able to continue to use it.

That said, please make use of all of your sails. You will enjoy the results of your efforts. Do it often and rigging the poles,ballooner and mizzen staysail become second nature. If you know that you are going to encounter some downwind sailing, it is much easier to rig the poles and adjust the guys at anchor before you set off. The beauty of the Amel is that the poles can be folded back and hook on the rails when not in use. I leave mine permanently rigged so they can be deployed very quickly when required and also for added security. They do give some protection when moving back to the cockpit in rolly conditions. Going over the side single handed in not an option!

Sadly I know of several Amel owners who have never used their poles, yet alone the ballooner. They are really missing out, but that is their choice.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Kastelorizo Island Greece.


On 09/08/2017 20:38, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 
Hello 
I'd be really interested to hear amel owners thoughts and experience in down wind sail configuration
What works best for you?
All the best
Miles


On 30 Jul 2017, at 21:11, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello

I'm new to amel and and just going through with a maramu purchase

We are planning to take her fro Europe on a North Atlantic trip. Perhaps the Pacific too

I've also never sailed a ketch before and would love to hear any advise about setting the maramu up for down wind sailing

On sloops I've owned before I've run with double headsails on separate stays in the Trade winds. One sail on a roller furler. Another hanked on to a removable stay and then polled out to windward. With the main sail lashed down for days on end.

The worked brilliantly but I wonder if there is a option others could recommend that has worked well on these lovely ketches.

Any advice most welcome

Fair winds

Miles




Ian Park
 

Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit……

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Ian,
We've used the ballooner as a light air jib, but you do have to drop the genoa, making it not very user friendly. In our case we were doing a fun day race in light air on Long Island sound. The J-24's still scooted past us!
Cheers, Craig, Sangaris SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote :

Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit……

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


greatketch@...
 

Ian,

There is no way to use the balloner without putting it into the luff foil.  It is NOT made to be a free-flying sail, it does not have the strength in the luff tape.

Since it needs to go in the luff foil, the only way to use it on its own would be to remove the genoa first. Probably not what  you are thinking of!

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.


---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote :

Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit……

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Ian Park
 

Bill,
Thanks for that point about the strength of the sail.
Glad I didn't learn the hard way!
Cheers
Ian


Ian Shepherd
 

Ian,


I have met people who have done this, though I have never tried it. Be careful not to over stress the head of the ballooner. I ripped mine out on a crossing to the Caribbean during a sudden squall. After that I flew the mizzen staysail from the ballooner halyard to complete the crossing. Maybe a cruising chute would be a sail you might consider having on board for such occasions that you mention?

Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader


On 11/08/2017 09:17, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit……

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96



Ian Park
 

Ian
I have decided to desist the temptation of ruining the ballooner! I don't have space to carry an extra sail that I would rarely use.
Anyway, I can tell just from the look on my Linda's patient face that reads "What are you playing at. Why don't you just put the engine on and get there!!"
Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


david bruce
 

Hello All,  

Would anyone have any suggestions on how one might obtain a second downwind pole setup for a Santorin?  
Seems unlikely Amel would still carry them but I haven’t checked.  We have one, and I was planning on using a poled out genoa and prevented main for a downwind rig, but with all the praise for the dual headsail setup and hearing how much less roll there is makes me realize I’d like the two. 

 Also, does anyone have any concern regarding the wire clamps for the pole support on the shrouds, in that they do seem slightly angulated to the long axis of the wires, thus potentially causing a stress riser or work hardening in this area over time.    Many thanks.     

Dave Bruce,  
Liesse SN06





On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:00 AM, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Ian
I have decided to desist the temptation of ruining the ballooner! I don't have space to carry an extra sail that I would rarely use. 
Anyway, I can tell just from the look on my Linda's patient face that reads "What are you playing at. Why don't you just put the engine on and get there!!"
Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96



eric freedman
 

Dave,

My experience with the poles is that the poles are supported by the lines and very little if any force is on the rigging loop.

The loop is used basically to support the pole while you are rigging the lines.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

 

 

Hello All,  

 

Would anyone have any suggestions on how one might obtain a second downwind pole setup for a Santorin?  

Seems unlikely Amel would still carry them but I haven’t checked.  We have one, and I was planning on using a poled out genoa and prevented main for a downwind rig, but with all the praise for the dual headsail setup and hearing how much less roll there is makes me realize I’d like the two. 

 

 Also, does anyone have any concern regarding the wire clamps for the pole support on the shrouds, in that they do seem slightly angulated to the long axis of the wires, thus potentially causing a stress riser or work hardening in this area over time.    Many thanks.     

 

Dave Bruce,  

Liesse SN06

 

 

 

 

 

On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:00 AM, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ian
I have decided to desist the temptation of ruining the ballooner! I don't have space to carry an extra sail that I would rarely use. 
Anyway, I can tell just from the look on my Linda's patient face that reads "What are you playing at. Why don't you just put the engine on and get there!!"
Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96

 


Ian Park
 

Dave
I think the best bet is to make an enquiry to AMEL. Other than that see if a rigging company can make a copy of your current pole - the end fittings must be fairly standard.
As to the frame: I had some concerns that mine had moved on the rigging so decided to straighten them up. I checked the angle of the short pole from the mast with other AMELs as mine seemed to slope down very slightly, but that does seem to be the correct. If you get them exactly at right angles to the mast they do not line up perfectly in their engagement holes or exactly with the retaining pins. The angle is very slight. But I tightened the rigging sections reasonably straight.
Perhaps someone else can add to this - the pole rigging is identical to the SM.
And, yes - the downwind performance is great to sit back and watch!

Trust you are enjoying your boat. best wishes

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN 96


smiles bernard
 

Thanks greatketch!
Could anyone point me to info about how to set up this downwind ballooned rig?
Does it fly on a removable forestay? In a dyneema luff rope ? Something else ?
I've never heard of a balooner before btw
This is different to a asymmetrical cruising chute right?
Many thanks for any help and advise 
Miles


On 15 Aug 2017, at 21:03, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dave,

My experience with the poles is that the poles are supported by the lines and very little if any force is on the rigging loop.

The loop is used basically to support the pole while you are rigging the lines.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

 

 

Hello All,  

 

Would anyone have any suggestions on how one might obtain a second downwind pole setup for a Santorin?  

Seems unlikely Amel would still carry them but I haven’t checked.  We have one, and I was planning on using a poled out genoa and prevented main for a downwind rig, but with all the praise for the dual headsail setup and hearing how much less roll there is makes me realize I’d like the two. 

 

 Also, does anyone have any concern regarding the wire clamps for the pole support on the shrouds, in that they do seem slightly angulated to the long axis of the wires, thus potentially causing a stress riser or work hardening in this area over time.    Many thanks.     

 

Dave Bruce,  

Liesse SN06

 

 

 

 

 

On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:00 AM, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ian
I have decided to desist the temptation of ruining the ballooner! I don't have space to carry an extra sail that I would rarely use. 
Anyway, I can tell just from the look on my Linda's patient face that reads "What are you playing at. Why don't you just put the engine on and get there!!"
Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96

 


greatketch@...
 

You might find this post on my blog useful if you are interested in the mechanics of the downwind rig on an Amel...


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Gloucester, Mass


Ian Park
 

Miles
The ballooner setup is quite unique to AMEL boats. The sail is similar to a cruising chute, the same dimensions as the genoa, but goes up a second luff groove on the genoa furled. It is hoisted by a continuous halliard arrangement that enables the head of the sail to be engaged in the top swivel and the halliard to be completely removed. Thus enables both sails to be reeled simultaneously on the roller or rolled in completely. A third luff groove enables the ballooner to be lowered by hoisting a plastic 'mouse' which releases the ballooner - hence Chris's comment about his fast the sail comes down.

The twin articulated poles again are unique. They are much safer to deploy shorthanded than a spinnaker pole since none of the moving part of the pole is over the deck. The four pole control lines are colour coded individually and marked with the optimum creating off position to facilitate an easy set up prior to unfurling the genoa and then hoisting the ballooner.

All the instructions and diagrams are in the SM owners manual, a copy of which I believe is on file.

Hope this gives a quick overview, but reading the chapter will make more sense.

Good luck

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Miles,

Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Miles,


I do not have a Maramu Manual, but maybe the Super Maramu manual will help.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970









On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Miles,

Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970




Ryan Meador
 

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this seems like a natural point to ask... is there a separate manual for the original SM vs the SM2K?  I've only seen the latter, and there is no hard copy of a manual on my boat.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, USA

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:33 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Miles,


I do not have a Maramu Manual, but maybe the Super Maramu manual will help.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970









On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Miles,

Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970





Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Yes, but I am not aware of an electronic copy of earlier models. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Aug 17, 2017 11:53, "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this seems like a natural point to ask... is there a separate manual for the original SM vs the SM2K?  I've only seen the latter, and there is no hard copy of a manual on my boat.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, USA

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:33 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Miles,


I do not have a Maramu Manual, but maybe the Super Maramu manual will help.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970









On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Miles,

Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970





smiles bernard
 

Thanks that is great
I'll have a look at the owners manual
We take delivery of out 1984 maramu 46ft next Tuesday. 
I know it has had its electric curler replaced with a profurl electric unit
So sounds like it would need 3 luff groves and also a special top swivel. 
My old small halmatic 30 had a triple groove on the furler but no special swivel on the top

I wonder if that clever locking swivel part is entirely necessary assuming I probably don't have it. I.e. Would it furl up anyhow

Also since the balooner is amel specific I wonder where I can get sail plans for an old girl. 

Many thanks for your help folks 




On 16 Aug 2017, at 18:43, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Miles
The ballooner setup is quite unique to AMEL boats. The sail is similar to a cruising chute, the same dimensions as the genoa, but goes up a second luff groove on the genoa furled. It is hoisted by a continuous halliard arrangement that enables the head of the sail to be engaged in the top swivel and the halliard to be completely removed. Thus enables both sails to be reeled simultaneously on the roller or rolled in completely. A third luff groove enables the ballooner to be lowered by hoisting a plastic 'mouse' which releases the ballooner - hence Chris's comment about his fast the sail comes down.

The twin articulated poles again are unique. They are much safer to deploy shorthanded than a spinnaker pole since none of the moving part of the pole is over the deck. The four pole control lines are colour coded individually and marked with the optimum creating off position to facilitate an easy set up prior to unfurling the genoa and then hoisting the ballooner.

All the instructions and diagrams are in the SM owners manual, a copy of which I believe is on file.

Hope this gives a quick overview, but reading the chapter will make more sense.

Good luck

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


smiles bernard
 

Hi there Bill
I dont have a manual I'm afraid 

All the best
M

On 16 Aug 2017, at 22:41, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Miles,
He best
Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



smiles bernard
 

Thanks Bill 
That's great
All the very best
Miles


On 17 Aug 2017, at 11:33, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Miles,


I do not have a Maramu Manual, but maybe the Super Maramu manual will help.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970









On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Miles,

Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970