[Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration
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Ian Shepherd
Hello Miles, I use the poles whenever I can and find the downwind performance to be very good. You will leave most boats behind if you pole out the genoa once the apparent wind angle is 120 degrees or more. A word of caution. Amel now recommend that if you use a poled out genoa in strong winds you should also rig the pole on the opposite side to minimize the bending load on the side of the mainmast. If you do this, you will wish for the genoa sheets to be 2M longer per side, else it will be a stretch to secure them to the upwind winch. In light winds you will be able to continue sailing downwind whilst others can't, unless they deploy a cruising chute or spinnaker. When those sails collapse due to lack of wind, you genoa will remain proudly erect ready to catch any puff that comes along. And you don't have to watch it every second as you would a free flying sail. The ballooner is a great sail and can be rigged single handed with a little ingenuity. There is a trap you can fall into though. When the wind picks up and you need to furl both sails bit by bit and you face a course change that no longer supports the twin head sail configuration, you have to completely unfurl again in order to get the ballooner down. When I made my single handed voyage from Shannon to Greenland I have a marvellous 24 hour run under ballooner and genoa. Then the wind picked up and changed direction and I was forced unfurl to get the wind down in winds of now 22kts. It was somewhat of a struggle. The lesson learnt was that it is wise to get the ballooner down early if you think that you will no be able to continue to use it. That said, please make use of all of your sails. You will enjoy the results of your efforts. Do it often and rigging the poles,ballooner and mizzen staysail become second nature. If you know that you are going to encounter some downwind sailing, it is much easier to rig the poles and adjust the guys at anchor before you set off. The beauty of the Amel is that the poles can be folded back and hook on the rails when not in use. I leave mine permanently rigged so they can be deployed very quickly when required and also for added security. They do give some protection when moving back to the cockpit in rolly conditions. Going over the side single handed in not an option! Sadly I know of several Amel owners who have never used their poles, yet alone the ballooner. They are really missing out, but that is their choice. Regards Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Kastelorizo Island Greece.
On 09/08/2017 20:38, smiles bernard
smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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Ian Park
Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit…… Ian Ocean Hobo SN96
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Hi Ian,
We've used the ballooner as a light air jib, but you do have to drop the genoa, making it not very user friendly. In our case we were doing a fun day race in light air on Long Island sound. The J-24's still scooted past us! Cheers, Craig, Sangaris SN68 ---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote : Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options. Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit…… Ian Ocean Hobo SN96
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greatketch@...
Ian,
There is no way to use the balloner without putting it into the luff foil. It is NOT made to be a free-flying sail, it does not have the strength in the luff tape. Since it needs to go in the luff foil, the only way to use it on its own would be to remove the genoa first. Probably not what you are thinking of! Bill Kinney SM160 Harmonie Bar Harbor, Maine. ---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote : Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options. Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit…… Ian Ocean Hobo SN96
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Ian Park
Bill,
Thanks for that point about the strength of the sail. Glad I didn't learn the hard way! Cheers Ian
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Ian Shepherd
Ian,
I have met people who have done this, though I have never tried
it. Be careful not to over stress the head of the ballooner. I
ripped mine out on a crossing to the Caribbean during a sudden
squall. After that I flew the mizzen staysail from the ballooner
halyard to complete the crossing. Maybe a cruising chute would be
a sail you might consider having on board for such occasions that
you mention? Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader On 11/08/2017 09:17, Ian Park
parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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Ian Park
Ian
I have decided to desist the temptation of ruining the ballooner! I don't have space to carry an extra sail that I would rarely use. Anyway, I can tell just from the look on my Linda's patient face that reads "What are you playing at. Why don't you just put the engine on and get there!!" Thanks for the confirmation anyway. Ian Ocean Hobo SN96
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Hello All,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Would anyone have any suggestions on how one might obtain a second downwind pole setup for a Santorin? Seems unlikely Amel would still carry them but I haven’t checked. We have one, and I was planning on using a poled out genoa and prevented main for a downwind rig, but with all the praise for the dual headsail setup and hearing how much less roll there is makes me realize I’d like the two. Also, does anyone have any concern regarding the wire clamps for the pole support on the shrouds, in that they do seem slightly angulated to the long axis of the wires, thus potentially causing a stress riser or work hardening in this area over time. Many thanks. Dave Bruce, Liesse SN06
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sailormon <kimberlite@...>
Dave, My experience with the poles is that the poles are supported by the lines and very little if any force is on the rigging loop. The loop is used basically to support the pole while you are rigging the lines. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:41 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration
Hello All,
Would anyone have any suggestions on how one might obtain a second downwind pole setup for a Santorin? Seems unlikely Amel would still carry them but I haven’t checked. We have one, and I was planning on using a poled out genoa and prevented main for a downwind rig, but with all the praise for the dual headsail setup and hearing how much less roll there is makes me realize I’d like the two.
Also, does anyone have any concern regarding the wire clamps for the pole support on the shrouds, in that they do seem slightly angulated to the long axis of the wires, thus potentially causing a stress riser or work hardening in this area over time. Many thanks.
Dave Bruce, Liesse SN06
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Ian Park
Dave
I think the best bet is to make an enquiry to AMEL. Other than that see if a rigging company can make a copy of your current pole - the end fittings must be fairly standard. As to the frame: I had some concerns that mine had moved on the rigging so decided to straighten them up. I checked the angle of the short pole from the mast with other AMELs as mine seemed to slope down very slightly, but that does seem to be the correct. If you get them exactly at right angles to the mast they do not line up perfectly in their engagement holes or exactly with the retaining pins. The angle is very slight. But I tightened the rigging sections reasonably straight. Perhaps someone else can add to this - the pole rigging is identical to the SM. And, yes - the downwind performance is great to sit back and watch! Trust you are enjoying your boat. best wishes Ian Ocean Hobo SN 96
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smiles bernard
Thanks greatketch! Could anyone point me to info about how to set up this downwind ballooned rig? Does it fly on a removable forestay? In a dyneema luff rope ? Something else ? I've never heard of a balooner before btw This is different to a asymmetrical cruising chute right? Many thanks for any help and advise Miles
On 15 Aug 2017, at 21:03, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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greatketch@...
You might find this post on my blog useful if you are interested in the mechanics of the downwind rig on an Amel...
Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Gloucester, Mass
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Ian Park
Miles
The ballooner setup is quite unique to AMEL boats. The sail is similar to a cruising chute, the same dimensions as the genoa, but goes up a second luff groove on the genoa furled. It is hoisted by a continuous halliard arrangement that enables the head of the sail to be engaged in the top swivel and the halliard to be completely removed. Thus enables both sails to be reeled simultaneously on the roller or rolled in completely. A third luff groove enables the ballooner to be lowered by hoisting a plastic 'mouse' which releases the ballooner - hence Chris's comment about his fast the sail comes down. The twin articulated poles again are unique. They are much safer to deploy shorthanded than a spinnaker pole since none of the moving part of the pole is over the deck. The four pole control lines are colour coded individually and marked with the optimum creating off position to facilitate an easy set up prior to unfurling the genoa and then hoisting the ballooner. All the instructions and diagrams are in the SM owners manual, a copy of which I believe is on file. Hope this gives a quick overview, but reading the chapter will make more sense. Good luck Ian Ocean Hobo SN96
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Miles, Read your manual...it is very straightforward. Let me know if you do not have a manual. CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Miles, Try these manuals: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8l83rx49zivv1o0/AABQ-Oq1K_RCbC3Eezxvqa8ea?dl=0 I do not have a Maramu Manual, but maybe the Super Maramu manual will help. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School http://amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
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Ryan Meador
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this seems like a natural point to ask... is there a separate manual for the original SM vs the SM2K? I've only seen the latter, and there is no hard copy of a manual on my boat. Thanks, Ryan SM 233 Iteration Boston, USA On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:33 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Yes, but I am not aware of an electronic copy of earlier models. CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Aug 17, 2017 11:53, "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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smiles bernard
Thanks that is great I'll have a look at the owners manual We take delivery of out 1984 maramu 46ft next Tuesday. I know it has had its electric curler replaced with a profurl electric unit So sounds like it would need 3 luff groves and also a special top swivel. My old small halmatic 30 had a triple groove on the furler but no special swivel on the top I wonder if that clever locking swivel part is entirely necessary assuming I probably don't have it. I.e. Would it furl up anyhow Also since the balooner is amel specific I wonder where I can get sail plans for an old girl. Many thanks for your help folks M
On 16 Aug 2017, at 18:43, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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smiles bernard
Hi there Bill I dont have a manual I'm afraid All the best M
On 16 Aug 2017, at 22:41, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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smiles bernard
Thanks Bill That's great All the very best Miles
On 17 Aug 2017, at 11:33, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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