Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: winter liveaboard?


Ryan Meador
 

Those are good ideas.  I used to have one of those Eva-Dry units and they are indeed a joke.  I had it for the summer though, not the winter.  It tends to be very dry here once the temperature goes below freezing.  My old boat had an Espar (Eberspacher), my new one does not.  That goes a long way towards keeping the boat dry because it exchanges air with the outside.  I think I'm going to try to heat with electric only this year rather than install one of those systems.  I also do not have a 50Hz inverter, but I'm sure I can find a similar dehumidifier that works at 60Hz.  I may also add a 50Hz inverter so I can run the washing machine.  Does anyone have experience separating out the electrical system so some things run on the inverter and some things don't?  Or did you just wire it right into the main breaker (in which case how do you run the hot water heater)?

Thanks,
Ryan

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:45 PM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

For two people living permanently on am SM2K, we find in cool climates you need the following to avoid damage from condensation arising from high humidity.


1.  Always run the kitchen exhaust fan while using propane.
2.  Run at least two dehumidifiers permanently.  We have the Eva-Dry EDV-2200 with peltier technology, which is a bit of a joke and is not sufficient if people are living on the boat.  Don't recommend it.  We also have the DeLonghi DNC 65 with desiccant technology, highly recommended for low power use averaging about 50W, low noise, small size, and ability to keep dehumidifying even at low ambient temps when we are out and about.  Runs in the U.S. if you run it from your 50Hz inverter.
3.  Run the Eberspächer diesel heater at least once a day and for at least one hour.
4.  On any days with low ambient humidity, open all hatches and run fans.
5.  Install humidity monitors throughout the boat, and especially in the problem area on the berth above the batteries.  About $40 total.
6.  Open cabinet doors and rotate stored clothes as needed.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350
En route, Thermopylae to Skiathos




eric freedman
 

Ryan,

Here in the USA you have 60 cycle 220-240 volts in all the outlets.

The water heater is a resistive device and doesn’t really care what frequency the electric is. The AC unit and chargers work on 50/60.

 

The dishwasher, Watermaker , and Washing Machine all work ONLY on  50 hz.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 1:14 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: winter liveaboard?

 

 

Those are good ideas.  I used to have one of those Eva-Dry units and they are indeed a joke.  I had it for the summer though, not the winter.  It tends to be very dry here once the temperature goes below freezing.  My old boat had an Espar (Eberspacher), my new one does not.  That goes a long way towards keeping the boat dry because it exchanges air with the outside.  I think I'm going to try to heat with electric only this year rather than install one of those systems.  I also do not have a 50Hz inverter, but I'm sure I can find a similar dehumidifier that works at 60Hz.  I may also add a 50Hz inverter so I can run the washing machine.  Does anyone have experience separating out the electrical system so some things run on the inverter and some things don't?  Or did you just wire it right into the main breaker (in which case how do you run the hot water heater)?

 

Thanks,

Ryan

 

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:45 PM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

For two people living permanently on am SM2K, we find in cool climates you need the following to avoid damage from condensation arising from high humidity.

 

1.  Always run the kitchen exhaust fan while using propane.

2.  Run at least two dehumidifiers permanently.  We have the Eva-Dry EDV-2200 with peltier technology, which is a bit of a joke and is not sufficient if people are living on the boat.  Don't recommend it.  We also have the DeLonghi DNC 65 with desiccant technology, highly recommended for low power use averaging about 50W, low noise, small size, and ability to keep dehumidifying even at low ambient temps when we are out and about.  Runs in the U.S. if you run it from your 50Hz inverter.

3.  Run the Eberspächer diesel heater at least once a day and for at least one hour.

4.  On any days with low ambient humidity, open all hatches and run fans.

5.  Install humidity monitors throughout the boat, and especially in the problem area on the berth above the batteries.  About $40 total.

6.  Open cabinet doors and rotate stored clothes as needed.

 

Cheers,

 

Peregrinus

SM2K N. 350

En route, Thermopylae to Skiathos

 

 

 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

I thought the USA was 110 volt??

Danny

On 18 August 2017 at 14:04 "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Ryan,

Here in the USA you have 60 cycle 220-240 volts in all the outlets.

The water heater is a resistive device and doesn’t really care what frequency the electric is. The AC unit and chargers work on 50/60.

 

The dishwasher, Watermaker , and Washing Machine all work ONLY on  50 hz.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 1:14 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: winter liveaboard?

 

 

Those are good ideas.  I used to have one of those Eva-Dry units and they are indeed a joke.  I had it for the summer though, not the winter.  It tends to be very dry here once the temperature goes below freezing.  My old boat had an Espar (Eberspacher), my new one does not.  That goes a long way towards keeping the boat dry because it exchanges air with the outside.  I think I'm going to try to heat with electric only this year rather than install one of those systems.  I also do not have a 50Hz inverter, but I'm sure I can find a similar dehumidifier that works at 60Hz.  I may also add a 50Hz inverter so I can run the washing machine.  Does anyone have experience separating out the electrical system so some things run on the inverter and some things don't?  Or did you just wire it right into the main breaker (in which case how do you run the hot water heater)?

 

Thanks,

Ryan

 

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:45 PM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

For two people living permanently on am SM2K, we find in cool climates you need the following to avoid damage from condensation arising from high humidity.

 

1.  Always run the kitchen exhaust fan while using propane.

2.  Run at least two dehumidifiers permanently.  We have the Eva-Dry EDV-2200 with peltier technology, which is a bit of a joke and is not sufficient if people are living on the boat.  Don't recommend it.  We also have the DeLonghi DNC 65 with desiccant technology, highly recommended for low power use averaging about 50W, low noise, small size, and ability to keep dehumidifying even at low ambient temps when we are out and about.  Runs in the U.S. if you run it from your 50Hz inverter.

3.  Run the Eberspächer diesel heater at least once a day and for at least one hour.

4.  On any days with low ambient humidity, open all hatches and run fans.

5.  Install humidity monitors throughout the boat, and especially in the problem area on the berth above the batteries.  About $40 total.

6.  Open cabinet doors and rotate stored clothes as needed.

 

Cheers,

 

Peregrinus

SM2K N. 350

En route, Thermopylae to Skiathos

 

 

 

 

 


 


eric freedman
 

I was speaking about the power to our Amels from the 50 amp 220 volt 60 cycle outlet on the dock pedestal.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:11 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: winter liveaboard?

 

 

I thought the USA was 110 volt??

Danny

On 18 August 2017 at 14:04 "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Ryan,

Here in the USA you have 60 cycle 220-240 volts in all the outlets.

The water heater is a resistive device and doesn’t really care what frequency the electric is. The AC unit and chargers work on 50/60.

 

The dishwasher, Watermaker , and Washing Machine all work ONLY on  50 hz.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 1:14 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: winter liveaboard?

 

 

Those are good ideas.  I used to have one of those Eva-Dry units and they are indeed a joke.  I had it for the summer though, not the winter.  It tends to be very dry here once the temperature goes below freezing.  My old boat had an Espar (Eberspacher), my new one does not.  That goes a long way towards keeping the boat dry because it exchanges air with the outside.  I think I'm going to try to heat with electric only this year rather than install one of those systems.  I also do not have a 50Hz inverter, but I'm sure I can find a similar dehumidifier that works at 60Hz.  I may also add a 50Hz inverter so I can run the washing machine.  Does anyone have experience separating out the electrical system so some things run on the inverter and some things don't?  Or did you just wire it right into the main breaker (in which case how do you run the hot water heater)?

 

Thanks,

Ryan

 

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:45 PM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

For two people living permanently on am SM2K, we find in cool climates you need the following to avoid damage from condensation arising from high humidity.

 

1.  Always run the kitchen exhaust fan while using propane.

2.  Run at least two dehumidifiers permanently.  We have the Eva-Dry EDV-2200 with peltier technology, which is a bit of a joke and is not sufficient if people are living on the boat.  Don't recommend it.  We also have the DeLonghi DNC 65 with desiccant technology, highly recommended for low power use averaging about 50W, low noise, small size, and ability to keep dehumidifying even at low ambient temps when we are out and about.  Runs in the U.S. if you run it from your 50Hz inverter.

3.  Run the Eberspächer diesel heater at least once a day and for at least one hour.

4.  On any days with low ambient humidity, open all hatches and run fans.

5.  Install humidity monitors throughout the boat, and especially in the problem area on the berth above the batteries.  About $40 total.

6.  Open cabinet doors and rotate stored clothes as needed.

 

Cheers,

 

Peregrinus

SM2K N. 350

En route, Thermopylae to Skiathos

 

 

 

 

 


 


Alan Leslie
 

Hi Danny,
In the USA they have a four wire system. If you use one of the hot wires and neutral you get 110V . If you use the two hot wires you can get 220V @ 60Hz. It's a bit bizarre to us 220/240V folk....but that's the way it is. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
PS Nice pic on Facebook of you sailing in to Manganui


Ryan Meador
 

Wall power in the USA targets 120V (and they're very good at maintaining it), but it is allowed to vary from 110V to 125V. All at 60Hz; they will change the voltage to maintain the frequency if the grid is under heavy load.  So in my opinion it is most correct to call it 120V, but a lot of people call it 110V or even 115V.  Our homes (and larger boats, like the SM) are supplied with split-phase 240V, so you can use 240V directly or get two 120V circuits by connecting them across the middle of the transformer (the neutral wire) -- this is as Alan says.  Even larger buildings are supplied with 3-phase power, but that gets very complicated very quickly.

My question was regarding the actual wiring of the SM, how best to separate out some circuits so they always have 50Hz, but allow others to use whatever frequency is available. And also to switch the 50Hz circuit from the inverter to the generator as needed. Has anyone done this?

If I were to go hog wild, I'd build seven separate AC electrical systems: 50Hz, 60Hz, and "don't care"; each at both 120V and 240V; and a seventh that doesn't care about voltage or frequency.  But I'm resisting the temptation primarily because I don't want to mess too much with the Amel design, and also because that would be a lot of work and expense. Can you tell I'm an electrical engineer? 😂

Implicit in the above is a related question that's been marinating in my mind for a while: has anyone in the US tried swapping out their 3-wire shore power cord for a 4-wire cord and thus running 120V to US-style wall outlets?  I have a number of US wall outlets on board, but they're all powered from an inverter right now, which is not the most efficient thing and also limits how much power I can draw. I'd get 240V space heaters if I go forward with electric heat for this reason.

I think someone in this thread also mentioned the main breaker is 35A? Is the existing system sufficiently robust that I could safely replace it with 50A? Is this the breaker on the panel above the galley or is there another one closer to the shore power inlet (as required by ABYC...)?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, USA

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 5:13 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Danny,

In the USA they have a four wire system. If you use one of the hot wires and neutral you get 110V . If you use the two hot wires you can get 220V @ 60Hz. It's a bit bizarre to us 220/240V folk....but that's the way it is. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
PS Nice pic on Facebook of you sailing in to Manganui



Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Ryan, 

That was a lot of words, but your question was, "how best to separate out some circuits so they always have 50Hz, but allow others to use whatever frequency is available."

The smart-ass answer is why.  You are over thinking this and negotiating with yourself without any real experience. 

The short answer is, it is much simpler to leave things as they are and buy 50htz devices.

The longer answer may be for someone who is willing to destroy the original design, which I will tell you is perfect and "child-proof," especially when traveling to many different countries. Search earlier posts for my definition of child-proof. 

I really hopes that this helps you make a decision... it would take me an hour to give you all the supporting data that I am sure you want. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Aug 18, 2017 11:31, "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Wall power in the USA targets 120V (and they're very good at maintaining it), but it is allowed to vary from 110V to 125V. All at 60Hz; they will change the voltage to maintain the frequency if the grid is under heavy load.  So in my opinion it is most correct to call it 120V, but a lot of people call it 110V or even 115V.  Our homes (and larger boats, like the SM) are supplied with split-phase 240V, so you can use 240V directly or get two 120V circuits by connecting them across the middle of the transformer (the neutral wire) -- this is as Alan says.  Even larger buildings are supplied with 3-phase power, but that gets very complicated very quickly.

My question was regarding the actual wiring of the SM, how best to separate out some circuits so they always have 50Hz, but allow others to use whatever frequency is available. And also to switch the 50Hz circuit from the inverter to the generator as needed. Has anyone done this?

If I were to go hog wild, I'd build seven separate AC electrical systems: 50Hz, 60Hz, and "don't care"; each at both 120V and 240V; and a seventh that doesn't care about voltage or frequency.  But I'm resisting the temptation primarily because I don't want to mess too much with the Amel design, and also because that would be a lot of work and expense. Can you tell I'm an electrical engineer? 😂

Implicit in the above is a related question that's been marinating in my mind for a while: has anyone in the US tried swapping out their 3-wire shore power cord for a 4-wire cord and thus running 120V to US-style wall outlets?  I have a number of US wall outlets on board, but they're all powered from an inverter right now, which is not the most efficient thing and also limits how much power I can draw. I'd get 240V space heaters if I go forward with electric heat for this reason.

I think someone in this thread also mentioned the main breaker is 35A? Is the existing system sufficiently robust that I could safely replace it with 50A? Is this the breaker on the panel above the galley or is there another one closer to the shore power inlet (as required by ABYC...)?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, USA

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 5:13 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Danny,

In the USA they have a four wire system. If you use one of the hot wires and neutral you get 110V . If you use the two hot wires you can get 220V @ 60Hz. It's a bit bizarre to us 220/240V folk....but that's the way it is. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
PS Nice pic on Facebook of you sailing in to Manganui



greatketch@...
 

The USA has two main types of plugs.  

A 30 amp plug that supplies one hot, one neutral, and one ground wire and is 110 volt only.  

A 50 amp plug supplies one ground, one neutral, and TWO hot wires.  The hot wires are each 110 volts relative to the neutral, and are 180 degrees out of phase, so are 220 volts relative to each other.

Note that people talk about voltages of 110, 115 and 120, but they are all (for all practical purposes) the same.  Same with 220, 230, and 240.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Gloucester, Mass


amelforme
 

Bill. This guy bought a boat I built for Frank Mc Carrol and his wife Bernadette who I got quite close to. It was struck by lightning. He asked me how to fix it as I have been involved, with support from Amel, in about twenty of these restoration processes. I told him DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. USE ONLY COMPONENTS SUPPLIED BY AMEL. He let some unscrupulous outfit convince him the Amel way was stupid and dangerous and they did it their way. A total disaster! Frank asked me to sell the boat so I went up to New York to do so. When I discovered the changes, I told him I was not the guy to sell it as I could not represent it as a good value based on the lunatic changes. This ruined our friendship, unfortunately and needlessly.
Leave this know it all alone, he is not worth your time as he is the type that will work against what he does not understand.

Be careful Buddy

Joel 
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
954-812-2485

On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:16 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ryan, 

That was a lot of words, but your question was, "how best to separate out some circuits so they always have 50Hz, but allow others to use whatever frequency is available."

The smart-ass answer is why.  You are over thinking this and negotiating with yourself without any real experience. 

The short answer is, it is much simpler to leave things as they are and buy 50htz devices.

The longer answer may be for someone who is willing to destroy the original design, which I will tell you is perfect and "child-proof," especially when traveling to many different countries. Search earlier posts for my definition of child-proof. 

I really hopes that this helps you make a decision... it would take me an hour to give you all the supporting data that I am sure you want. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Aug 18, 2017 11:31, "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Wall power in the USA targets 120V (and they're very good at maintaining it), but it is allowed to vary from 110V to 125V. All at 60Hz; they will change the voltage to maintain the frequency if the grid is under heavy load.  So in my opinion it is most correct to call it 120V, but a lot of people call it 110V or even 115V.  Our homes (and larger boats, like the SM) are supplied with split-phase 240V, so you can use 240V directly or get two 120V circuits by connecting them across the middle of the transformer (the neutral wire) -- this is as Alan says.  Even larger buildings are supplied with 3-phase power, but that gets very complicated very quickly.

My question was regarding the actual wiring of the SM, how best to separate out some circuits so they always have 50Hz, but allow others to use whatever frequency is available. And also to switch the 50Hz circuit from the inverter to the generator as needed. Has anyone done this?

If I were to go hog wild, I'd build seven separate AC electrical systems: 50Hz, 60Hz, and "don't care"; each at both 120V and 240V; and a seventh that doesn't care about voltage or frequency.  But I'm resisting the temptation primarily because I don't want to mess too much with the Amel design, and also because that would be a lot of work and expense. Can you tell I'm an electrical engineer? 😂

Implicit in the above is a related question that's been marinating in my mind for a while: has anyone in the US tried swapping out their 3-wire shore power cord for a 4-wire cord and thus running 120V to US-style wall outlets?  I have a number of US wall outlets on board, but they're all powered from an inverter right now, which is not the most efficient thing and also limits how much power I can draw. I'd get 240V space heaters if I go forward with electric heat for this reason.

I think someone in this thread also mentioned the main breaker is 35A? Is the existing system sufficiently robust that I could safely replace it with 50A? Is this the breaker on the panel above the galley or is there another one closer to the shore power inlet (as required by ABYC...)?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, USA

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 5:13 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Danny,

In the USA they have a four wire system. If you use one of the hot wires and neutral you get 110V . If you use the two hot wires you can get 220V @ 60Hz. It's a bit bizarre to us 220/240V folk....but that's the way it is. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
PS Nice pic on Facebook of you sailing in to Manganui



eric freedman
 

Alan,

You get 110 volts of you connect the white wire (neutral)  to the wiring on the boat.

I only use the Red , Black, and Green.

I felt it was best not to use the neutral on board. I get my 110 volts from an 1800 watt inverter.

I rarely use it.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 5:14 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: winter liveaboard?

 

 

Hi Danny,

In the USA they have a four wire system. If you use one of the hot wires and neutral you get 110V . If you use the two hot wires you can get 220V @ 60Hz. It's a bit bizarre to us 220/240V folk....but that's the way it is. 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

PS Nice pic on Facebook of you sailing in to Manganui