[Amel Yacht Owners] Don't pole out the Genaker?


Peter Forbes
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


Sv Garulfo
 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


Peter Forbes
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter

On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


Sv Garulfo
 

Thanks Peter

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

Best,

Thomas 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France


On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter


On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Thomas,

I think that we all have to understand how Amel will answer general and non-specific questions like, "...is it OK to fly a code zero on a pole." I know what my answer would be because if I said yes, I would foolishly accept serious liability with zero reward. 

I believe that it is a decision that you'll need to make. I would urge you to ask the question to owners so that you get information to make your decision and recognize that non-Amel specified sails can be very different in terms of size, cut, and construction. And that wind angle and speed, along with other concurrent set sails play an important part of your decision. 

I am sure that you realize that there are zero answers to your original question. 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Aug 27, 2017 9:52 AM, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Peter

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

Best,

Thomas 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France


On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter


On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


Peter Forbes
 

Thomas,

yes I would have liked two poles but didn’t have that - as for the angle this kit works only from about 165P to 175S or vice versa with the pole on the windward side but if you had 2 poles then I guess 165 - 165.

And Yes my yankee could easily be your genakker - I think mine is Amel original.

Peter

On 27 Aug 2017, at 14:06, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks Peter

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

Best,

Thomas 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France


On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter



On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730



On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France



-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France



Peter Forbes
 

Sorry for Yankee read Code Zero - your Genakker is probably the same sail by the different name.

peter

On 27 Aug 2017, at 14:06, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks Peter

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

Best,

Thomas 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France


On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter



On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730



On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France



-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France



eric freedman
 

Peter,

A gennaker is a free flying sail like a spinnaker without a pole.

It is doused with a sock. We get amazing speeds from this huge sail. I had a bowsprit fabricated which makes this sail perform even better and is easier to handle.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 1:19 PM
To: Barry Connor connor_barry@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Don't pole out the Genaker?

 

 

Sorry for Yankee read Code Zero - your Genakker is probably the same sail by the different name.

 

peter

On 27 Aug 2017, at 14:06, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Peter

 

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

 

Best,

 

Thomas 



Garulfo 

Amel 54 #122

Back from Corsica

Hyeres, France

 

 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

 

Peter

 

 


On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Thanks Peter for your answers 

 

For my understanding ,

 

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

 

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

 

Cheers 

 

Garulfo 

Amel 54 #122

Back from Corsica

Hyeres, France

 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Garulfo,

 

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

 

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

 

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes

00447836 209730

 

 


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

 

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

 

What do you make of that advice? 

 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

 

Fair winds 

 

Thomas

 

Garulfo 

Amel 54 #122

Back from Corsica

Hyeres, France

 

-- 

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Corsica, France

 

 

 

-- 

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Corsica, France

 

 

-- 

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Corsica, France

 

 


Peter Forbes
 

Eric,

OK - then I stand corrected my sail is doused by furling it up using an everlasting loop on a large wheel at the foot of the sail - we call that a code zero and that’s what we have on our 54.

Thank you Eric.

This forum is just a wonderful group of people who work so helpfully together - I love my Amel and this wonderful forum.

best wishes

Peter

On 27 Aug 2017, at 21:09, 'sailormon' kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Peter,

A gennaker is a free flying sail like a spinnaker without a pole.

It is doused with a sock. We get amazing speeds from this huge sail. I had a bowsprit fabricated which makes this sail perform even better and is easier to handle.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376





From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 1:19 PM
To: Barry Connor connor_barry@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Don't pole out the Genaker?





Sorry for Yankee read Code Zero - your Genakker is probably the same sail by the different name.



peter

On 27 Aug 2017, at 14:06, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@gmail.com <mailto:svgarulfo@gmail.com> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:





Thanks Peter



It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week.



You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two?



We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads).



Best,



Thomas




Garulfo

Amel 54 #122

Back from Corsica

Hyeres, France

https://www.instagram.com/svGarulfo/




On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@gmail.com <mailto:ppsforbes@gmail.com> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:





Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.



Peter






On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@gmail.com <mailto:svgarulfo@gmail.com> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:







Thanks Peter for your answers



For my understanding ,



1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter.



2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?



3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?



Cheers



Garulfo

Amel 54 #122

Back from Corsica

Hyeres, France

https://www.instagram.com/svGarulfo/


On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@gmail.com <mailto:ppsforbes@gmail.com> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:





Garulfo,



We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.



All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.



This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes

00447836 209730






On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@gmail.com <mailto:svgarulfo@gmail.com> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:





Hi all,



I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.



What do you make of that advice?



I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing.



Thanks for any advice and experience,



Fair winds



Thomas



Garulfo

Amel 54 #122

Back from Corsica

Hyeres, France

https://www.instagram.com/svGarulfo/


--

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Corsica, France




--

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Corsica, France


--

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Corsica, France







Sv Garulfo
 


Hi Bill,

Hope everything is ok for you and family and friends in Gaveston and Texas. 

I will make my decision based on the input I get from the great contributors of this forum. And I will never consider them as liable for anything. 

As per Amel themselves, I'm happy they would apply caution in their statements. I just don't understand why they would, unprompted, mention that with respect to a Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (ie the type of sail Peter and I have been describing) when it's clearly ok with a ballooner. And I'd like the group to opine on why that may be as well as provide real life experience to help me improve my knowledge in that area.
I accept that that my original question may have implied a request to pass judgment of Amel's advice. That was not intentional. 


Thomas
Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
Hyeres, France


On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 17:47, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas,

I think that we all have to understand how Amel will answer general and non-specific questions like, "...is it OK to fly a code zero on a pole." I know what my answer would be because if I said yes, I would foolishly accept serious liability with zero reward. 

I believe that it is a decision that you'll need to make. I would urge you to ask the question to owners so that you get information to make your decision and recognize that non-Amel specified sails can be very different in terms of size, cut, and construction. And that wind angle and speed, along with other concurrent set sails play an important part of your decision. 

I am sure that you realize that there are zero answers to your original question. 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   


On Aug 27, 2017 9:52 AM, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Peter

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

Best,

Thomas 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France


On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter


On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Thomas,

Remember the load on a ballooner is spread over the entire length of the foil/forestay and sheet blocks, while the load on a gennaker or spinnaker is on the top of the mast and the sheet blocks. I believe that is a big difference, and may be the reason for Amel's caution.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:40 AM, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Hi Bill,

Hope everything is ok for you and family and friends in Gaveston and Texas. 

I will make my decision based on the input I get from the great contributors of this forum. And I will never consider them as liable for anything. 

As per Amel themselves, I'm happy they would apply caution in their statements. I just don't understand why they would, unprompted, mention that with respect to a Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (ie the type of sail Peter and I have been describing) when it's clearly ok with a ballooner. And I'd like the group to opine on why that may be as well as provide real life experience to help me improve my knowledge in that area.
I accept that that my original question may have implied a request to pass judgment of Amel's advice. That was not intentional. 


Thomas
Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
Hyeres, France


On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 17:47, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thomas,

I think that we all have to understand how Amel will answer general and non-specific questions like, "...is it OK to fly a code zero on a pole." I know what my answer would be because if I said yes, I would foolishly accept serious liability with zero reward. 

I believe that it is a decision that you'll need to make. I would urge you to ask the question to owners so that you get information to make your decision and recognize that non-Amel specified sails can be very different in terms of size, cut, and construction. And that wind angle and speed, along with other concurrent set sails play an important part of your decision. 

I am sure that you realize that there are zero answers to your original question. 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   


On Aug 27, 2017 9:52 AM, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thanks Peter

It may well be the same sail that I've been calling a Genaker with a built-in furler (and a luff line). We did tear it too last week. 

You didn't mention the wind angle, but presumably it's pretty dead downwind to have the genoa poled out to winward. Didn't you feel a need to also pole out the Code zero? I understand you said you have only one pole, but did you wish you had two? 

We do have two poles, and I'm still confused about whether it's ok to use on the Genaker/Cruising Code Zero (as the combination of gear sold by Amel for that boat suggests) or not (as the documentation reads). 

Best,

Thomas 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France


On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 10:32, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Well both sails were on Carango when I bought her from Rudi Peroni. The Yankee is a slightly high cut genoa and in this rig set up we completely unfurl it to the pole. The code zero has its own luff line and a furler with an everlasting furling rope on a drum at the foot. It can only be fully deployed or fully rolled up. It is a great sail and after destroying it we are having a replacement made by Ullman sails inCape Town - they ship it to St Maarten where they have a small loft.

Peter


On 26 Aug 2017, at 07:25, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Thanks Peter for your answers 

For my understanding ,

1. Is your Yankee a specific sail or simply the genoa (ie foresail) furled in appropriately for the conditions? I presume the latter. 

2. Is your Code Zero the 100m^2 Genaker with 'built-in furling' (for my lack of a better word) Amel offered as an option on the 54, or a specific sail?

3. What wind angles would you keep that setup for?

Cheers 

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 at 21:59, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Garulfo,

We sailed from Cape Town to Salvador Brazil flying a poled out Yankee on the just windward side and the code Zero on the just downwind side ( a huge amount of sail) and Mizzen of course with preventer downwind side and our 54 sailed really fast and comfortably in up to 22kts true.

All went well until we were hit by a squall of 27 kits and the code Zero blew out but no other damage.

This is definitely a rig I will use again. We only have the one Amel 54 standard pole.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


On 25 Aug 2017, at 18:22, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I was going through the Amel documentation for the 54 optional items and, regarding the gennaker with built-in furler, it reads "Don't pole out this sail" and "Don't use the gennaker at the same time as the genoa". That's my translation of the french document 'Amel 54_Equipement_optionel_V1.4', section 7-3-7.  

What do you make of that advice? 

I was definitely planning to use the double pole setup with gennaker and genoa for downwind sailing. 

Thanks for any advice and experience,

Fair winds 

Thomas

Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Back from Corsica
Hyeres, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Corsica, France



eric freedman
 


eric freedman
 


Alan Leslie
 

We too have a similar outboard block on the mast head and a Dyneema halyard that we use for the gennaker, we too have travelled many miles with that sail poled out with no apparent issues. One thing to consider is that we don't fly this sail in anything over 10-12 knots apparent, we use the genoa in stronger winds, and upwards of that we have a staysail on its own furler. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


greatketch@...
 

I don't think Amel says "don't use a spinnaker", they say don't use the downwind poles on the spinnaker.

Bill Kinney
SM#160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass


eric freedman
 


Sv Garulfo
 

Bill K,

Apologies for the slightly pedantic correction but they talk about Gennaker, not Spinnaker. And more specifically the type that is proposed as an option on Amel 54, with the built-in halyard and furling system. 


On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 at 05:34, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I don't think Amel says "don't use a spinnaker", they say don't use the downwind poles on the spinnaker.


Bill Kinney
SM#160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Hyères, France


Alan Leslie
 

The '54 has spinnaker poles as opposed to the SM which has poles for twin headsail down wind sailing... quite different set up...
Cheers
Alan
Elyse Sm437