[Amel Yacht Owners] some ideas (2)


Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Jeff,

Totally agree with your math.  The best option is avoidance of the risk.

Hence why I’m in Curacao for the Hurricane season.

Fair winds,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 30 Sep 2017, at 08:28, jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Stay In Town:

There are 2 forces acting on a boat tied or anchored.

1:

Force the boat exerts due to it's own mass 

F=ma. m=mass of boat a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). What that means is as your boat moves, and tugs on your lines, the harder the wind blows, and the faster it swings and bobs, more force is exerted on your lines. 

2:

Force of the wind on your boat 

F=APCd. a=area, P=(a coefficient)v2  where v=velocity of the wind  Cd are coeficients.

SO...force is equal to the square of the wind velocity.

A 30mph wind exerts a 900unit force.

A 70mph wind exerts a 4900unit force 

A 100mph wind exerts a 10000unit force

Bobbing and tugging more drastically, along with double the wind force, it's easy to see why a hurricane with winds of 100mph will exert TWICE the combined forces on your boat as tropical storm force winds of 70mph would.


You need to counteract these forces obviously.
At anchor:
Winds will swing counterclockwise (backing) as the storm passes (assuming the storm passes from east to west). As a result, your boat will swing with it. You need to deploy anchors at angles to account for this.
Most harbors and bays bottom sediment is either sand, mud, clay, or a combo of this, but generally on the soft side. I prefer an anchor that will present a perpendicular surface on it's flukes, driving them into the bottom, and presenting maximum resistance to the pull of the anchor line.
I used a combination of a dansforth  (which held) and a plow (which dragged) while Spirit was tied up and also anchored between piers at the marina to weather Irma's tropical force winds.

I plan to buy a fortress anchor. Look them up.

In the marina: Between piers, NEVER in a slip.
Anticipate the wind shift and tie up so you will have enough lines holding you as this occurs.
Get some tires. Slip them over the pilings you plan to tie to. Wrap a piece of chain around the tire, and tie up to the chain. The tires will flex, and dampen the motion, lessening the force on the lines (see F=ma)

I plan to buy some spectra line to supplement my line inventory. Expensive, but light and easy to store. 
I was lucky that Jose Mendes (owner of Marina Pescaderia) had enough heavy nylon line for me to purchase to tie Spirit up to weather Irma. Damn lucky. Get it now, so you have it when you need it, you might not be so lucky. 400 feet of Spectra would take up less space then 100 feet of good nylon line. 

Next up...Get out of Dodge. But not today.
I hope this stuff is helpful to someone. 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14





hanspeter baettig
 

JP thank you for your input
I do not understand, Boats are in  hurricane belt, normally we leave this dangerous spots and go south
How are you both ?
salutation suis à Mallorca apres demain direction Gibraltar
hp

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.09.2017 um 15:49 schrieb Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Jeff,


Totally agree with your math.  The best option is avoidance of the risk.

Hence why I’m in Curacao for the Hurricane season.

Fair winds,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 30 Sep 2017, at 08:28, jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Stay In Town:

There are 2 forces acting on a boat tied or anchored.

1:

Force the boat exerts due to it's own mass 

F=ma. m=mass of boat a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). What that means is as your boat moves, and tugs on your lines, the harder the wind blows, and the faster it swings and bobs, more force is exerted on your lines. 

2:

Force of the wind on your boat 

F=APCd. a=area, P=(a coefficient)v2  where v=velocity of the wind  Cd are coeficients.

SO...force is equal to the square of the wind velocity.

A 30mph wind exerts a 900unit force.

A 70mph wind exerts a 4900unit force 

A 100mph wind exerts a 10000unit force

Bobbing and tugging more drastically, along with double the wind force, it's easy to see why a hurricane with winds of 100mph will exert TWICE the combined forces on your boat as tropical storm force winds of 70mph would.


You need to counteract these forces obviously.
At anchor:
Winds will swing counterclockwise (backing) as the storm passes (assuming the storm passes from east to west). As a result, your boat will swing with it. You need to deploy anchors at angles to account for this.
Most harbors and bays bottom sediment is either sand, mud, clay, or a combo of this, but generally on the soft side. I prefer an anchor that will present a perpendicular surface on it's flukes, driving them into the bottom, and presenting maximum resistance to the pull of the anchor line.
I used a combination of a dansforth  (which held) and a plow (which dragged) while Spirit was tied up and also anchored between piers at the marina to weather Irma's tropical force winds.

I plan to buy a fortress anchor. Look them up.

In the marina: Between piers, NEVER in a slip.
Anticipate the wind shift and tie up so you will have enough lines holding you as this occurs.
Get some tires. Slip them over the pilings you plan to tie to. Wrap a piece of chain around the tire, and tie up to the chain. The tires will flex, and dampen the motion, lessening the force on the lines (see F=ma)

I plan to buy some spectra line to supplement my line inventory. Expensive, but light and easy to store. 
I was lucky that Jose Mendes (owner of Marina Pescaderia) had enough heavy nylon line for me to purchase to tie Spirit up to weather Irma. Damn lucky. Get it now, so you have it when you need it, you might not be so lucky. 400 feet of Spectra would take up less space then 100 feet of good nylon line. 

Next up...Get out of Dodge. But not today.
I hope this stuff is helpful to someone. 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14





Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Suis à Curaçao… le 8 Oct vers Bonaire puis Santa Marta Colombie puis Panama.

Fair winds,

JP


On 30 Sep 2017, at 10:01, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


JP thank you for your input
I do not understand, Boats are in  hurricane belt, normally we leave this dangerous spots and go south
How are you both ?
salutation suis à Mallorca apres demain direction Gibraltar
hp

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.09.2017 um 15:49 schrieb Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Jeff,


Totally agree with your math.  The best option is avoidance of the risk.

Hence why I’m in Curacao for the Hurricane season.

Fair winds,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 30 Sep 2017, at 08:28, jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Stay In Town:

There are 2 forces acting on a boat tied or anchored.

1:

Force the boat exerts due to it's own mass 

F=ma. m=mass of boat a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). What that means is as your boat moves, and tugs on your lines, the harder the wind blows, and the faster it swings and bobs, more force is exerted on your lines. 

2:

Force of the wind on your boat 

F=APCd. a=area, P=(a coefficient)v2  where v=velocity of the wind  Cd are coeficients.

SO...force is equal to the square of the wind velocity.

A 30mph wind exerts a 900unit force.

A 70mph wind exerts a 4900unit force 

A 100mph wind exerts a 10000unit force

Bobbing and tugging more drastically, along with double the wind force, it's easy to see why a hurricane with winds of 100mph will exert TWICE the combined forces on your boat as tropical storm force winds of 70mph would.


You need to counteract these forces obviously.
At anchor:
Winds will swing counterclockwise (backing) as the storm passes (assuming the storm passes from east to west). As a result, your boat will swing with it. You need to deploy anchors at angles to account for this.
Most harbors and bays bottom sediment is either sand, mud, clay, or a combo of this, but generally on the soft side. I prefer an anchor that will present a perpendicular surface on it's flukes, driving them into the bottom, and presenting maximum resistance to the pull of the anchor line.
I used a combination of a dansforth  (which held) and a plow (which dragged) while Spirit was tied up and also anchored between piers at the marina to weather Irma's tropical force winds.

I plan to buy a fortress anchor. Look them up.

In the marina: Between piers, NEVER in a slip.
Anticipate the wind shift and tie up so you will have enough lines holding you as this occurs.
Get some tires. Slip them over the pilings you plan to tie to. Wrap a piece of chain around the tire, and tie up to the chain. The tires will flex, and dampen the motion, lessening the force on the lines (see F=ma)

I plan to buy some spectra line to supplement my line inventory. Expensive, but light and easy to store. 
I was lucky that Jose Mendes (owner of Marina Pescaderia) had enough heavy nylon line for me to purchase to tie Spirit up to weather Irma. Damn lucky. Get it now, so you have it when you need it, you might not be so lucky. 400 feet of Spectra would take up less space then 100 feet of good nylon line. 

Next up...Get out of Dodge. But not today.
I hope this stuff is helpful to someone. 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14








JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

JP, 

You have risk where you are located in Curacao.

We experienced 2 hurricanes while in the ABCs in 2007. Hurricane Dean and Felix. 

Hurricane Felix turned north and missed us by about 50 miles while we were in Curacao, but Hurricane Dean came close enough to us in Bonaire that 48 hours before landfall, we ran south about 90 miles to Golfo de Cuare near Chichiriviche, Venezuela.

You need a hurricane plan while in the ABCs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 8:27 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jean-Pierre,
I agree with you that the best option is avoidance of risk.
That said, when you consider that the coastal areas affected by potential hurricane impact encompass vast areas of the Caribbean, Gulf, and Atlantic coasts, you should count yourself as fortunate to have the opportunity to lie in Curacao during the Hurricane season. Many owners, for various reasons are within the hurricane zone, and don't have the opportunity to move their boats back and forth, to avoid risk. That said, the prudent mariner, if faced with an approaching storm, does have options that can help to avoid serious damage to their boat. 

Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 09:49 AM, Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Jeff,


Totally agree with your math.  The best option is avoidance of the risk.

Hence why I’m in Curacao for the Hurricane season.

Fair winds,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 30 Sep 2017, at 08:28, jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Stay In Town:

There are 2 forces acting on a boat tied or anchored.

1:

Force the boat exerts due to it's own mass 

F=ma. m=mass of boat a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). What that means is as your boat moves, and tugs on your lines, the harder the wind blows, and the faster it swings and bobs, more force is exerted on your lines. 

2:

Force of the wind on your boat 

F=APCd. a=area, P=(a coefficient)v2  where v=velocity of the wind  Cd are coeficients.

SO...force is equal to the square of the wind velocity.

A 30mph wind exerts a 900unit force.

A 70mph wind exerts a 4900unit force 

A 100mph wind exerts a 10000unit force

Bobbing and tugging more drastically, along with double the wind force, it's easy to see why a hurricane with winds of 100mph will exert TWICE the combined forces on your boat as tropical storm force winds of 70mph would.


You need to counteract these forces obviously.
At anchor:
Winds will swing counterclockwise (backing) as the storm passes (assuming the storm passes from east to west). As a result, your boat will swing with it. You need to deploy anchors at angles to account for this.
Most harbors and bays bottom sediment is either sand, mud, clay, or a combo of this, but generally on the soft side. I prefer an anchor that will present a perpendicular surface on it's flukes, driving them into the bottom, and presenting maximum resistance to the pull of the anchor line.
I used a combination of a dansforth  (which held) and a plow (which dragged) while Spirit was tied up and also anchored between piers at the marina to weather Irma's tropical force winds.

I plan to buy a fortress anchor. Look them up.

In the marina: Between piers, NEVER in a slip.
Anticipate the wind shift and tie up so you will have enough lines holding you as this occurs.
Get some tires. Slip them over the pilings you plan to tie to. Wrap a piece of chain around the tire, and tie up to the chain. The tires will flex, and dampen the motion, lessening the force on the lines (see F=ma)

I plan to buy some spectra line to supplement my line inventory. Expensive, but light and easy to store. 
I was lucky that Jose Mendes (owner of Marina Pescaderia) had enough heavy nylon line for me to purchase to tie Spirit up to weather Irma. Damn lucky. Get it now, so you have it when you need it, you might not be so lucky. 400 feet of Spectra would take up less space then 100 feet of good nylon line. 

Next up...Get out of Dodge. But not today.
I hope this stuff is helpful to someone. 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






themos_astro
 

Hello Bill, 

You might want to fix your signature links. The second one has a bad URL. Luckily, I persevered. 

Themos Tsikas


Olaf RENOS at Yahoo <olaf_renos@...>
 

Hi Bill,

 

That’s really good to know. I thought ABC islands are save while hurricane season.

 

Thanks so much for that important info.

 

BR

Olaf

 

MIA-AMARA, SN No. 135, Martinique

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: 03 October 2017 20:35
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] some ideas (2)

 

 

JP, 

 

You have risk where you are located in Curacao.

 

We experienced 2 hurricanes while in the ABCs in 2007. Hurricane Dean and Felix. 

 

Hurricane Felix turned north and missed us by about 50 miles while we were in Curacao, but Hurricane Dean came close enough to us in Bonaire that 48 hours before landfall, we ran south about 90 miles to Golfo de Cuare near Chichiriviche, Venezuela.

 

You need a hurricane plan while in the ABCs.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 8:27 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jean-Pierre,

I agree with you that the best option is avoidance of risk.

That said, when you consider that the coastal areas affected by potential hurricane impact encompass vast areas of the Caribbean, Gulf, and Atlantic coasts, you should count yourself as fortunate to have the opportunity to lie in Curacao during the Hurricane season. Many owners, for various reasons are within the hurricane zone, and don't have the opportunity to move their boats back and forth, to avoid risk. That said, the prudent mariner, if faced with an approaching storm, does have options that can help to avoid serious damage to their boat. 

 

Best Regards,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 09:49 AM, Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Totally agree with your math.  The best option is avoidance of the risk.

 

Hence why I’m in Curacao for the Hurricane season.

 

Fair winds,

 

Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM 007

 

 

 

On 30 Sep 2017, at 08:28, jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Stay In Town:

There are 2 forces acting on a boat tied or anchored.

1:

Force the boat exerts due to it's own mass 

F=ma. m=mass of boat a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). What that means is as your boat moves, and tugs on your lines, the harder the wind blows, and the faster it swings and bobs, more force is exerted on your lines. 

2:

Force of the wind on your boat 

F=APCd. a=area, P=(a coefficient)v2  where v=velocity of the wind  Cd are coeficients.

SO...force is equal to the square of the wind velocity.

A 30mph wind exerts a 900unit force.

A 70mph wind exerts a 4900unit force 

A 100mph wind exerts a 10000unit force

Bobbing and tugging more drastically, along with double the wind force, it's easy to see why a hurricane with winds of 100mph will exert TWICE the combined forces on your boat as tropical storm force winds of 70mph would.

 

You need to counteract these forces obviously.

At anchor:

Winds will swing counterclockwise (backing) as the storm passes (assuming the storm passes from east to west). As a result, your boat will swing with it. You need to deploy anchors at angles to account for this.

Most harbors and bays bottom sediment is either sand, mud, clay, or a combo of this, but generally on the soft side. I prefer an anchor that will present a perpendicular surface on it's flukes, driving them into the bottom, and presenting maximum resistance to the pull of the anchor line

I used a combination of a dansforth  (which held) and a plow (which dragged) while Spirit was tied up and also anchored between piers at the marina to weather Irma's tropical force winds.

 

I plan to buy a fortress anchor. Look them up.

 

In the marina: Between piers, NEVER in a slip.

Anticipate the wind shift and tie up so you will have enough lines holding you as this occurs.

Get some tires. Slip them over the pilings you plan to tie to. Wrap a piece of chain around the tire, and tie up to the chain. The tires will flex, and dampen the motion, lessening the force on the lines (see F=ma)

 

I plan to buy some spectra line to supplement my line inventory. Expensive, but light and easy to store. 

I was lucky that Jose Mendes (owner of Marina Pescaderia) had enough heavy nylon line for me to purchase to tie Spirit up to weather Irma. Damn lucky. Get it now, so you have it when you need it, you might not be so lucky. 400 feet of Spectra would take up less space then 100 feet of good nylon line. 

 

Next up...Get out of Dodge. But not today.

I hope this stuff is helpful to someone. 

 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

 

 

 

 

 


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Themos,

Thanks,

I checked the signature setup and it is correct, and I checked the outgoing email above and it was correct. But, somehow, it was changed by Yahoo, removing a "dot" between "www" and "amelschool.com."

It never ceases to amaze me what may happen in the world of YAHOO!

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:29 AM, themos.tsikas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Bill, 


You might want to fix your signature links. The second one has a bad URL. Luckily, I persevered. 

Themos Tsikas