Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...


karkauai
 

I replaced mine after (duh) the rusted chain debacle.  Left the fiberglass tabs and laid new material over the tabs (I don't remember the name, but composite material with "sandwich" construction...very stiff and won't rot).  Then glassed around the edges.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


karkauai
 

In my case the wood got wet because of an extra anchor I had stored there on a rubber mat.  The tip had worked its way through the mat and holed the surface of the floor.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


greatketch@...
 

Left over from an earlier project I have a small bolt of kevlar fabric...  might be the perfect reenforcing fiber for a locker that might have to hold heavy, pointy, things!  Just what everybody needs, an anchor locker that is literally bulletproof!

Might come in handy with Joel throwing around fulminate of mercury! 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD


Dan Carlson
 

Thanks for the advice James,  I agree with you regarding the linseed oil.  In the US there are some penetrating products like Wood Life and Thompson's Water Seal, or perhaps deck sealants.  But I'm not sure what I can find down in Trinidad or Grenada.  

Timbor (Borate) is more for pest control.  

After 14 years, the wood did not look too bad, but I'd like to help it survive another 10 or 20?

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM #387, sv BeBe. 


On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 9:38 AM, lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

Dan,

  Odds are that any bare wood in the chain locker area will have at least some moisture in it which makes oil based coatings problematic.  If your desire is to try and prevent the wood from rotting a good choice might be a Borate based solution such as Timbor.  Timbor comes in a powder form which you mix with plain water, it has low toxicity to humans and almost no odour.  It also kills bugs albeit slowly.   There is another mixture that uses ethelyne glycol and Borate which is more effective but I don't like the smell of glycol and it is quite poisonous to humans and pets.  Linseed oil will turn black quickly in such a humid environment and I have serious doubts about it being a preservative.  Some of the older copper based preservatives were reasonably effective for a surface treatment but the penetration is poor.  The Borate on the other hand will over time will work it's way completely through the wood.   The best place to apply the solution is to the edge end grain of the plywood if you can get in there with a spray bottle or something.

  If you can find a way to keep the humidity down in the locker, it will certainly extend the life of the plywood with or without a treatment.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: 10/12/17 15:12 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Has anyone used linseed oil or other wood preservative to treat their exposed wood above the chain locker?  


I inspected my wood on BeBe, SM387, before leaving for the summer and have it on my list to apply something protective when I return.

Dan Carlson


 

Bill, I had the same problem a few years ago. I cut the floors out leaving about an inch of tabbing all the way around. Then cut another piece of plywood to fit , resting on the tabbing. I epoxied the bottom of the plywood first , then installed it and glassed it into place . I glassed the entire surface , rather than simply painting it. It was nice meeting you in Annapolis.

Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 11:59 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 
The plywood soles of Harmonie's bow lockers are seriously rotten.  I was kind of surprised to see that the bottoms of these plywood sheets (i.e., the top of the chain locker) were "naked", without fiberglass sheathing.  I suspect exposure to the constant damp of the chain locker for 20 years was the start of the problem.

Replacement seems to be a fairly straight forward, fiberglass project, but if anyone else has had this problem and has any hints or "gothcha's" to watch for, I'd love to hear them!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD




James Alton
 

Dan,

   I would bet that a big part of the reason that your plywood still looks good has to do with the previous care that she received.  Have you asked Bill for his advice on this matter?

   My primary line of work since 1978 has been wooden boat restorations,  so I know a little about wood and the available products.  The Wood Life was once a powerful preservative when it contained pentachlorophenol.  Unfortunately the product was also very dangerous to the environment,  the applicator and the end user.  The last time I used Wood Life it had a zinc based preservative that proved to  be completely ineffective.  The Borates (such as the product sold as Timbor) are very effective in dealing with pests such as termites because they can completely penetrate even thick pcs.  Oil based preservatives that are only applied as a surface coating can only penetrate a short distance into the wood as has been proven by testing.  Borates are an effective fungicide  (do a search), and it is a fungus that causes what is called dry rot in wood which is really misleading  because moisture must be present for the decay to progress.  Borates allow what is basically paper to be used as insulation that can last for decades and not rot or be eaten by some critter.  They penetrate because they are water bourne and wood is all about moving water around.  Also when you apply an oil based product you will seal the surface that will prevent additional coatings from soaking in.  With the Borate you can reapply anytime with no surface prep.  While a preservative can certainly extend the life of Wood,  keeping the wood dry I think is still the most effective way to preserve it.  Insure that there are no holes or cracks in the deck lockers that could admit water and do all that you can to keep the humidity down in the anchor locker.

   But yes, Timbor might be hard to get in Trinidad but I am pretty sure that Amazon carries it.  Perhaps they could ship it to you.

Best of luck,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/14/17 18:41 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Thanks for the advice James,  I agree with you regarding the linseed oil.  In the US there are some penetrating products like Wood Life and Thompson's Water Seal, or perhaps deck sealants.  But I'm not sure what I can find down in Trinidad or Grenada.  


Timbor (Borate) is more for pest control.  

After 14 years, the wood did not look too bad, but I'd like to help it survive another 10 or 20?

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM #387, sv BeBe. 


 

Dan,

  Odds are that any bare wood in the chain locker area will have at least some moisture in it which makes oil based coatings problematic.  If your desire is to try and prevent the wood from rotting a good choice might be a Borate based solution such as Timbor.  Timbor comes in a powder form which you mix with plain water, it has low toxicity to humans and almost no odour.  It also kills bugs albeit slowly.   There is another mixture that uses ethelyne glycol and Borate which is more effective but I don't like the smell of glycol and it is quite poisonous to humans and pets.  Linseed oil will turn black quickly in such a humid environment and I have serious doubts about it being a preservative.  Some of the older copper based preservatives were reasonably effective for a surface treatment but the penetration is poor.  The Borate on the other hand will over time will work i t's way completely through the wood.   The best place to apply the solution is to the edge end grain of the plywood if you can get in there with a spray bottle or something.

  If you can find a way to keep the humidity down in the locker, it will certainly extend the life of the plywood with or without a treatment.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/12/17 15:12 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Has anyone used linseed oil or other wood preservative to treat their exposed wood above the chain locker?  


I inspected my wood on BeBe, SM387, before leaving for the summer and have it on my list to apply something protective when I return.

Dan Carlson


 

Bill, I had the same problem a few years ago. I cut the floors out leaving about an inch of tabbing all the way around. Then cut another piece of plywood to fit , resting on the tabbing. I epoxied the bottom of the plywood first , then installed it and glassed it into place . I glassed the entire surface , rather than simply painting it. It was nice meeting you in Annapolis.

Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 11:59 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 
The plywood soles of Harmonie's bow lockers are seriously rotten.  I was kind of surprised to see that the bottoms of these plywood sheets (i.e., the top of the chain locker) were "naked", without fiberglass sheathing.  I suspect exposure to the constant damp of the chain locker for 20 years was the start of the problem.

Replacement seems to be a fairly straight forward, fiberglass project, but if anyone else has had this problem and has any hints or "gothcha's" to watch for, I'd love to hear them!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD




karkauai
 

My bow lockers are notoriously damp, not sure how water is getting in.

I really don't think any chemical will help if you get a hole in the sealing layer, what ever it is.  If yours is still solid, I would glass over it after it has dried thoroughly.  That won't protect it from below, but nothing is likely to damage it from below.  If its feeling squishy at all, I'd replace with something that won't rot, or glass over a good marine plywood.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



Dan Carlson
 

Thanks again James.  Very helpful information.

When we bought BeBe last year, I inspected the underside wood above the chain locker and was satisfied with the condition.  Bill said all he did was keep the chain locker relatively clean and dry.  Put the anchor away clean.  Retrieving the chain at a rate that not only does not strain the windows, but also allows more water to drip off, washing the mud off.  And cleaning the locker periodically.   No treatment was applied as I recall.

In boat shopping I had seen an SM with rotted out floors under the sail lockers so it was on my mind.  

From the comments earlier the rot may be due to cracks or holes allowing water to come down from above (although so far we've been able to keep these lockers dry).   And the other consolation is that with 480 of these boats out sailing for many years now this does not seem to be a hot topic.

It looks like the Timbor is a powder, so I should be able to purchase it while I'm in the US and bring it back with me when I return to the boat next month.  Then figure out how to cleanly apply it.

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM 387, sv BeBe.











On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 2:25 PM, lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dan,

   I would bet that a big part of the reason that your plywood still looks good has to do with the previous care that she received.  Have you asked Bill for his advice on this matter?

   My primary line of work since 1978 has been wooden boat restorations,  so I know a little about wood and the available products.  The Wood Life was once a powerful preservative when it contained pentachlorophenol.  Unfortunately the product was also very dangerous to the environment,  the applicator and the end user.  The last time I used Wood Life it had a zinc based preservative that proved to  be completely ineffective.  The Borates (such as the product sold as Timbor) are very effective in dealing with pests such as termites because they can completely penetrate even thick pcs.  Oil based preservatives that are only applied as a surface coating can only penetrate a short distance into the wood as has been proven by testing.  Borates are an effective fungicide  (do a search), and it is a fungus that causes what is called dry rot in wood which is really misleading  because moisture must be present for the decay to progress.  Borates allow what is basically paper to be used as insulation that can last for decades and not rot or be eaten by some critter.  They penetrate because they are water bourne and wood is all about moving water around.  Also when you apply an oil based product you will seal the surface that will prevent additional coatings from soaking in.  With the Borate you can reapply anytime with no surface prep.  While a preservative can certainly extend the life of Wood,  keeping the wood dry I think is still the most effective way to preserve it.  Insure that there are no holes or cracks in the deck lockers that could admit water and do all that you can to keep the humidity down in the anchor locker.

   But yes, Timbor might be hard to get in Trinidad but I am pretty sure that Amazon carries it.  Perhaps they could ship it to you.

Best of luck,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: 10/14/17 18:41 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Thanks for the advice James,  I agree with you regarding the linseed oil.  In the US there are some penetrating products like Wood Life and Thompson's Water Seal, or perhaps deck sealants.  But I'm not sure what I can find down in Trinidad or Grenada.  


Timbor (Borate) is more for pest control.  

After 14 years, the wood did not look too bad, but I'd like to help it survive another 10 or 20?

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM #387, sv BeBe. 


 

Dan,

  Odds are that any bare wood in the chain locker area will have at least some moisture in it which makes oil based coatings problematic.  If your desire is to try and prevent the wood from rotting a good choice might be a Borate based solution such as Timbor.  Timbor comes in a powder form which you mix with plain water, it has low toxicity to humans and almost no odour.  It also kills bugs albeit slowly.   There is another mixture that uses ethelyne glycol and Borate which is more effective but I don't like the smell of glycol and it is quite poisonous to humans and pets.  Linseed oil will turn black quickly in such a humid environment and I have serious doubts about it being a preservative.  Some of the older copper based preservatives were reasonably effective for a surface treatment but the penetration is poor.  The Borate on the other hand will over time will work i t's way completely through the wood.   The best place to apply the solution is to the edge end grain of the plywood if you can get in there with a spray bottle or something.

  If you can find a way to keep the humidity down in the locker, it will certainly extend the life of the plywood with or without a treatment.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/12/17 15:12 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Has anyone used linseed oil or other wood preservative to treat their exposed wood above the chain locker?  


I inspected my wood on BeBe, SM387, before leaving for the summer and have it on my list to apply something protective when I return.

Dan Carlson


 

Bill, I had the same problem a few years ago. I cut the floors out leaving about an inch of tabbing all the way around. Then cut another piece of plywood to fit , resting on the tabbing. I epoxied the bottom of the plywood first , then installed it and glassed it into place . I glassed the entire surface , rather than simply painting it. It was nice meeting you in Annapolis.

Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 11:59 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 
The plywood soles of Harmonie's bow lockers are seriously rotten.  I was kind of surprised to see that the bottoms of these plywood sheets (i.e., the top of the chain locker) were "naked", without fiberglass sheathing.  I suspect exposure to the constant damp of the chain locker for 20 years was the start of the problem.

Replacement seems to be a fairly straight forward, fiberglass project, but if anyone else has had this problem and has any hints or "gothcha's" to watch for, I'd love to hear them!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD




James Alton
 

Dan,

   It sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of how to care for the wood in your Amel.  Application of the Timbor is quite easy actually.  The overspray or drips can be cleaned up with just plain water.   Certainly remove your cushions and put some protective plastic over the woodwork but any sealed surfaces should clean up fine with water.  You might try using a garden sprayer.  Perhaps plugging the drain hole would be good since you could strain and reuse the lost product, gravity is not going to be your friend with this job.  I have found the Borate products are quite mild on the skin. I read that the toxicity to humans is roughly equivalent to a similar amount of table salt, but I am not a doctor or chemist so make your own decision.  One tip that might help is to not make the solution too strong or you will have some clogging problems with the sprayer.  If the seam between the plywood panel is visible from the bottom,  I would suggest applying as much as you can in that area since the end grain in the wood will take up the solution more quickly.  One downside to be aware of with the Borate preservatives is that they can leach out if immersed or kept continually wet. Should not be a problem in this application.

Best of luck,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/16/17 15:19 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Thanks again James.  Very helpful information.


When we bought BeBe last year, I inspected the underside wood above the chain locker and was satisfied with the condition.  Bill said all he did was keep the chain locker relatively clean and dry.  Put the anchor away clean.  Retrieving the chain at a rate that not only does not strain the windows, but also allows more water to drip off, washing the mud off.  And cleaning the locker periodically.   No treatment was applied as I recall.

In boat shopping I had seen an SM with rotted out floors under the sail lockers so it was on my mind.  

From the c omments earlier the rot may be due to cracks or holes allowing water to come down from above (although so far we've been able to keep these lockers dry).   And the other consolation is that with 480 of these boats out sailing for many years now this does not seem to be a hot topic.

It looks like the Timbor is a powder, so I should be able to purchase it while I'm in the US and bring it back with me when I return to the boat next month.  Then figure out how to cleanly apply it.

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM 387, sv BeBe.











 

Dan,

   I would bet that a big part of the reason that your plywood still looks good has to do with the previous care that she received.  Have you asked Bill for his advice on this matter?

   My primary line of work since 1978 has been wooden boat restorations,  so I know a little about wood and the available products.  The Wood Life was once a powerful preservative when it contained pentachlorophenol.  Unfortunately the product was also very dangerous to the environment,  the applicator and the end user.  The last time I used Wood Life it had a zinc based preservative that proved to  be completely ineffective.  The Borates (such as the product sold as Timbor) are very effective in dealing with pests such as termites because they can completely penetrate even thick pcs.  Oil based preservatives that are only applied as a surface coating can only penetrate a short distance into the wood as has been proven by testing.  Borates are an effective fungicide  (do a search), and it is a fungus that causes what is called dry rot in wood which is really misleading  because moisture must be present for the decay to progress.  Borates allow what is basically paper to be used as insulation that can last for decades and not rot or be eaten by some critter.  They penetrate because they are water bourne and wood is all about moving water around.  Also when you apply an oil based product you will seal the surface that will prevent additional coatings from soaking in.  With the Borate you can reapply anytime with no surface prep.  While a preservative can certainly extend the life of Wood,  keeping the wood dry I think is still the most effective way to preserve it.  Insure that there are no holes or cracks in the deck lockers that could admit water and do a ll that you can to keep the humidity down in the anchor locker.

   But yes, Timbor might be hard to get in Trinidad but I am pretty sure that Amazon carries it.  Perhaps they could ship it to you.

Best of luck,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/14/17 18:41 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Thanks for the advice James,  I agree with you regarding the linseed oil.  In the US there are some penetrating products like Wood Life and Thompson's Water Seal, or perhaps deck sealants.  But I'm not sure what I can find down in Trinidad or Grenada.  


Timbor (Borate) is more for pest control.  

After 14 years, the wood did not look too bad, but I'd like to help it survive another 10 or 20?

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM #387, sv BeBe. 


 

Dan,

  Odds are that any bare wood in the chain locker area will have at least some moisture in it which makes oil based coatings problematic.  If your desire is to try and prevent the wood from rotting a good choice might be a Borate based solution such as Timbor.  Timbor comes in a powder form which you mix with plain water, it has low toxicity to humans and almost no odour.  It also kills bugs albeit slowly.   There is another mixture that uses ethelyne glycol and Borate which is more effective but I don't like the smell of glycol and it is quite poisonous to humans and pets.  Linseed oil will turn black quickly in such a humid environment and I have serious doubts about it being a preservative.  Some of the older copper based preservatives were reasonably effective for a surface treatment but the penetration is poor.  The Borate on the other hand will over time will work i t's way completely through the wood.   The best place to apply the solution is to the edge end grain of the plywood if you can get in there with a spray bottle or something.

  If you can find a way to keep the humidity down in the locker, it will certainly extend the life of the plywood with or without a treatment.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/12/17 15:12 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

Has anyone used linseed oil or other wood preservative to treat their exposed wood above the chain locker?  


I inspected my wood on BeBe, SM387, before leaving for the summer and have it on my list to apply something protective when I return.

Dan Carlson


 

Bill, I had the same problem a few years ago. I cut the floors out leaving about an inch of tabbing all the way around. Then cut another piece of plywood to fit , resting on the tabbing. I epoxied the bottom of the plywood first , then installed it and glassed it into place . I glassed the entire surface , rather than simply painting it. It was nice meeting you in Annapolis.

Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 11:59 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 
The plywood soles of Harmonie's bow lockers are seriously rotten.  I was kind of surprised to see that the bottoms of these plywood sheets (i.e., the top of the chain locker) were "naked", without fiberglass sheathing.  I suspect exposure to the constant damp of the chain locker for 20 years was the start of the problem.

Replacement seems to be a fairly straight forward, fiberglass project, but if anyone else has had this problem and has any hints or "gothcha's" to watch for, I'd love to hear them!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD




James Alton
 

Kent,

   The bow lockers on our boat and the chain locker were also very wet and heavily mildewed  when we bought the boat.  They now stay almost completely dry but it takes a little effort.  All three spaces are essentially unvented so any moisture present from damp lines/fenders etc. will never dry inside any of these  lockers.  Salt  is hydroscopic so when the humidity is high any the items in the locker that have salt on them ( even if they felt dry when placed in the locker) will absorb moisture from the air that will be driven out during the daily heating cycle to condense when the locker cools.    Perhaps you have noticed that though the bottom of the bow locker lids seem dry during the daytime, and then lid is dripping wet in the morning?   Another entry for water that I discovered, is that when underway in waves that are more than about 2’ a bit of saltwater enters through the locker drains from spray and can soak into anything that is absorbent  laying on the locker bottom.  I am using closed cell foam to slightly elevate the lines off of the locker bottom to help prevent this.   I am looking now for a mesh plastic grating that is sometimes used in dog pens that might work better than the foam.  The other things that I do to try to keep my bow lockers dry is to remove any salt contained in the locker itself or in the contents on a regular basis and to thoroughly dry all of the items before putting them back in the locker.  I also open the lockers during the periods of dry weather to encourage drying since even after all of this I will sometimes get a minor amount of condensation on the bottom of the lid after a cool night.  If the rest of the locker is dry, this bit of moisture will dry off quickly with the lid open.  Finally,  when I store the boat in the off season, I put a fabric cover over the entire bow area which keeps the direct sun off of the lockers to reduce the maximum temperature.  When I returned to the boat this season,  I was pleased to find no mildew growth inside either bow locker and that everything inside was completely dry.   

    In my anchor locker,  I noticed that there was often condensation hanging in drops from the underside of the the locker.  Rinsing and drying the chain on deck plus leaving the water tight door in the bow open eliminated this problem but it is a bit of work to keep up with and requires a good bit of fresh water.   I think that your suggestion to replace the plywood with a non-cellulose panel would be a good idea since the anchor locker especially is going to be wet most of the time when cruising.   

   
James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Oct 15, 2017, at 10:28 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


My bow lockers are notoriously damp, not sure how water is getting in.

I really don't think any chemical will help if you get a hole in the sealing layer, what ever it is.  If yours is still solid, I would glass over it after it has dried thoroughly.  That won't protect it from below, but nothing is likely to damage it from below.  If its feeling squishy at all, I'd replace with something that won't rot, or glass over a good marine plywood.
Kent
SM243
Kristy





greatketch@...
 

James,

How do you lay out 100 meters of anchor chain on deck for rinsing and drying without beating the deck all to hell?  I haven't ever figured out a way to do that.

When I had a local fiberglass guy look at my anchor lockers to give a quote for the repair, the FIRST thing he wanted to do was add overboard drain holes to the lockers--which Super Maramus do not have.

I explained that on an Amel, if there is significant amounts of water coming into those lockers, something is wrong. Fix the problem (stop the water leaking in) rather than trying to fix the symptom (draining the water).  In a properly maintained bow locker on a Super Maramu, more water will come IN from an external drain than from any other source.

That doesn't mean the locker will be bone dry. Putting salty wet sails and lines in there will create a swamp-like environment, that's a different problem.  Keeping stuff as unsalty and as dry as possible is always a good thing--and much more challenging on a cruising boat than on a boat with a home port.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD
Leaving for warm climes in a few days.



James Alton
 

Bill,

   Sueno only has 50 meters of 3/8” chain plus 40 meters of 7/8” Nylon spliced to the chain.  The 50 meters does not make a very large pile.  I have two of the approx. 30”  x 3/4” thick  closed cell foam play matts that I set on the deck just aft of the sub. bow locker on to which I pile the chain.  I don’t lay the chain out for rinsing because of the possible deck damage you are referring to and I don’t think that it is needed to get the salt off.  There are lots of holes in the piled up chain to spray water into and just a couple minutes  of rinsing seems to be all that is needed.  The chain seems to dry out quickly in the sun in the Med., the line is a lot slower taking a day.  I don’t bother to do this while I am cruising continuously but when I stop at a marina with water available this is one of the first tasks I attend to on the boat after getting things secured.  The chain locker also gets a quick rinse and a sponging of the bottom.  My drain is slightly above the bottom of the locker for some reason,  I was thinking of changing this so that all of the water would drain out of the locker without any bailing.  Is there an Amel reason for not having the drain at the very bottom of the locker?   This is the first boat that I have owned on which the “Things to change” list has gotten shorter the longer I have owned the boat and I am being careful not to alter anything unless I am really sure it should be done.  

   Thank you for telling me about the Super Maramus not having drains for the deck lockers,  I am surprised that I missed that point and am glad to be corrected.  In case it helps, I think that the drain arrangement on the Maramu was very intelligently done by Amel.  There are two drains of course, Port and Stb. with cowls over the holes facing aft.  But the really interesting part of the design is that a trough was created between the drains Port and Stb. so that any water that comes in one drain tends to stay in the trough and  run right across and out the other side.  I have never seen anything in the locker before other than some minor dampness in the areas of the drains so I think that the locker bottoms might also slope to the drains.  I have also not beat to windward in more than 6’ seas nor seen more than 43 knots on this boat so maybe in severe conditions the drains are more of a problem. I am considering a minor change in the drains.  It should be possible to create a baffle that would prevent the entry of any water into the lockers from the drains.  It would work a little like the Aqua lift muffler to block water flowing in and allow any water that did enter to flow out of the drain when the bow lifted.  The twist turns on my bow lockers don’t really apply any compression to the gasket.  Are the bow locker gaskets compressed on the Super Maramu?

   Keeping spaces, stuff salt free and dry on a cruising boat is a real challenge,  I completely agree with you.

Best,

James

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:26 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,

How do you lay out 100 meters of anchor chain on deck for rinsing and drying without beating the deck all to hell?  I haven't ever figured out a way to do that.

When I had a local fiberglass guy look at my anchor lockers to give a quote for the repair, the FIRST thing he wanted to do was add overboard drain holes to the lockers--which Super Maramus do not have.

I explained that on an Amel, if there is significant amounts of water coming into those lockers, something is wrong. Fix the problem (stop the water leaking in) rather than trying to fix the symptom (draining the water).  In a properly maintained bow locker on a Super Maramu, more water will come IN from an external drain than from any other source.

That doesn't mean the locker will be bone dry. Putting salty wet sails and lines in there will crea te a swamp-like environment, that's a different problem.  Keeping stuff as unsalty and as dry as possible is always a good thing--and much more challenging on a cruising boat than on a boat with a home port.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD
Leaving for warm climes in a few days.





greatketch@...
 

James, 

The Super Maramu deck locker gaskets are really cleverly done as made at the factory.  They used a hollow "D" gasket with solid rubber inserts at the corners of the hatch to keep from over compressing the gasket and shortening its life.  

Like so many things on an Amel, it is a simple, elegant solution I hadn't seen before.

Bill


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill,

   Sueno only has 50 meters of 3/8” chain plus 40 meters of 7/8” Nylon spliced to the chain.  The 50 meters does not make a very large pile.  I have two of the approx. 30”  x 3/4” thick  closed cell foam play matts that I set on the deck just aft of the sub. bow locker on to which I pile the chain.  I don’t lay the chain out for rinsing because of the possible deck damage you are referring to and I don’t think that it is needed to get the salt off.  There are lots of holes in the piled up chain to spray water into and just a couple minutes  of rinsing seems to be all that is needed.  The chain seems to dry out quickly in the sun in the Med., the line is a lot slower taking a day.  I don’t bother to do this while I am cruising continuously but when I stop at a marina with water available this is one of the first tasks I attend to on the boat after getting things secured.  The chain locker also gets a quick rinse and a sponging of the bottom.  My drain is slightly above the bottom of the locker for some reason,  I was thinking of changing this so that all of the water would drain out of the locker without any bailing.  Is there an Amel reason for not having the drain at the very bottom of the locker?   This is the first boat that I have owned on which the “Things to change” list has gotten shorter the longer I have owned the boat and I am being careful not to alter anything unless I am really sure it should be done.  

   Thank you for telling me about the Super Maramus not having drains for the deck lockers,  I am surprised that I missed that point and am glad to be corrected.  In case it helps, I think that the drain arrangement on the Maramu was very intelligently done by Amel.  There are two drains of course, Port and Stb. with cowls over the holes facing aft.  But the really interesting part of the design is that a trough was created between the drains Port and Stb. so that any water that comes in one drain tends to stay in the trough and  run right across and out the other side.  I have never seen anything in the locker before other than some minor dampness in the areas of the drains so I think that the locker bottoms might also slope to the drains.  I have also not beat to windward in more than 6’ seas nor seen more than 43 knots on this boat so maybe in severe conditions the drains are more of a problem. I am considering a minor change in the drains.  It should be possible to create a baffle that would prevent the entry of any water into the lockers from the drains.  It would work a little like the Aqua lift muffler to block water flowing in and allow any water that did enter to flow out of the drain when the bow lifted.  The twist turns on my bow lockers don’t really apply any compression to the gasket.  Are the bow locker gaskets compressed on the Super Maramu?

   Keeping spaces, stuff salt free and dry on a cruising boat is a real challenge,  I completely agree with you.

Best,

James



karkauai
 

Thank you James, I'll try that.

Kent 


eric freedman
 

Bill,

I bought  2 18 inch pieces of astroturf at home depot. It comes off a large 12 foot long roll.

When I am having the boat hauled it keeps the dirt off the deck and is useful for washing down the chain without scratching up the deck.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 11:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

 

 

James,

 

How do you lay out 100 meters of anchor chain on deck for rinsing and drying without beating the deck all to hell?  I haven't ever figured out a way to do that.

 

When I had a local fiberglass guy look at my anchor lockers to give a quote for the repair, the FIRST thing he wanted to do was add overboard drain holes to the lockers--which Super Maramus do not have.

 

I explained that on an Amel, if there is significant amounts of water coming into those lockers, something is wrong. Fix the problem (stop the water leaking in) rather than trying to fix the symptom (draining the water).  In a properly maintained bow locker on a Super Maramu, more water will come IN from an external drain than from any other source.

 

That doesn't mean the locker will be bone dry. Putting salty wet sails and lines in there will create a swamp-like environment, that's a different problem.  Keeping stuff as unsalty and as dry as possible is always a good thing--and much more challenging on a cruising boat than on a boat with a home port.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Back Creek, Annapolis, MD

Leaving for warm climes in a few days.