[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: phased electronics replacement


Heinz Stutenbaeumer
 

Hi Bill and all,

I am relatively new to the group and have been a proud owner of a SM 2000 for about a year now.

 

I'm up to do something similar with my SY Quetzal.

I want to install new instruments and I will install a forward scan.

 

I'd be interested to see if I could join the old autopilot.

Also a connection to the ld and good working Furono Radar would inspire me.

 

Are there any pictures you could send to me?

I'd be grateful for any information.

Also from other participants of the group.

 

I fly to Martinique on the 18th and will then start work and do some Fotos.

Thank you for every letter,

and forgive my poor English

 

Always fare winds.

Heinz Stutenbäumer

Quetzal SM 2000 No. 292

 

heinz@...

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. November 2017 21:52
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: phased electronics replacement

 

 

We have gone the "phased approach" over the last two years.  When we bought our boat it was pretty much the original electronics kit from 1996.  Everything worked...  but I was really used to a much higher level of functionality and user friendliness that it could supply.

 

Our initial change was to go with a B&G Zeus Touch 12 MFD mounted in a Navpod at the helm.  The NMEA0183 output from the Hydra was connected to the MFD input.  The MFD takes that, and echoes the data out on the NMEA2000 bus for use by anybody else who needs it.  That meant that the new and the old played together well, and none of the old instruments ever had to be replaced because of communication incompatibilities with the new.

 

The vintage Furuno GPS became redundant, and was removed.

 

We added a B&G Rate Compass, and a B&G AC42 autopilot computer.

 

We eventually added 2 Triton displays.  We removed the original B&G Analog Depth display, and kept everything else--for now.  They were really great displays in their day, but I hardly ever look at them--the Tritons supply way more information in a very usable format.

 

We added a B&G Sounder module, and a new transducer to get us better information about what's under the boat.  We take our fishing pretty seriously, so that was important!

 

A CS4500 speed transducer was interfaced to the Sounder Module, and has proven to be a functional and reliable device.  Our sonic speed still works, after a fashion.  But it very susceptible to electrical interference from other devices so we don't rely on it much.

 

When the Furuno Radar died, we dropped a B&G 3G radar in to replace it, also a change we are very happy with.  Having the radar display at the helm suits the way we handle the boat much better than having it only at the nav station.

 

The original wind instrument works, and we will keep it for the foreseeable future. The Hydra's only real function at this point is to accept and transmit that wind data to the MFD.  I haven't seen a wind instrument that adds enough functionality to the system to justify replacement of all that hardware and wiring.

 

Once we had the NMEA2000 backbone created, adding things incrementally has been pretty easy.  The boat came with a Raymarine AIS650, that was only ever connected to a laptop for display.  Connecting its "Seatalk II" output to the NMEA2000 bus was just a matter of a simple conversion cable, and it was working with everything else happily.

 

At this point, we do not have any significant electronic wish list items.  The newer generation of Triton displays did not add enough to make us covet them.  The newer MFDs also haven't jumped far enough ahead for us to be unhappy with what we have.

 

Better sonar is always something I am looking for...

 

I think the key take-away for you is that none of the changes we made forced the timing to make others.  They were pretty much all independent decisions, and everything worked together as the changes proceeded.  The key was getting the Hydra data re-broadcast on the NMEA2K bus.  That made everything else easy.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

LMC, Fort Lauderdale, FL

 


greatketch@...
 


Heinz,

We kept our original AutoHelm autopilot as an installed working back up to our newer, smarter B&G autopilot.  The Autohelm has its own electronic compass, and receives wind data in the same way as it originally did, from the Hydra 0183 output.  It does not receive GPS data, but I never tried to interface it in that way since I never ask my auto pilot to steer a GPS course.  In other words, while it works together with the other instruments, it would not be fair to say it was integrated with them.

The Furuno radar can not send radar data to any other device.  It can, in theory, receive some data on heading and waypoints over 0183 but it requires an obsolete connector that I could never find.

I have attached a schematic of the new things that have been added to our boat.  The original wiring isn't completely shown, even if it is still being used.  Just haven't had time to do that too!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
LMC, Fort Lauderdale, FL

---In amelyachtowners@..., <heinz@...> wrote :

Hi Bill and all,

I am relatively new to the group and have been a proud owner of a SM 2000 for about a year now.

 

I'm up to do something similar with my SY Quetzal.

I want to install new instruments and I will install a forward scan.

 

I'd be interested to see if I could join the old autopilot.

Also a connection to the ld and good working Furono Radar would inspire me.

 

Are there any pictures you could send to me?

I'd be grateful for any information.

Also from other participants of the group.

 

I fly to Martinique on the 18th and will then start work and do some Fotos.

Thank you for every letter,

and forgive my poor English

 

Always fare winds.

Heinz Stutenbäumer

Quetzal SM 2000 No. 292

 

heinz@...

  


Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Due to a lightning strike we had every instrument on the boat replaced from tv antenna to ssb , everything. I chose to go with all B&G , 12 inch plotter at the helm and a 9 in. at the nav . station. I opted for the Forward Scan , it seemed erratic , with the image of the bottom spiking up and down , while in an area with a flat bottom (Chesapeake Bay ) . I could place no faith in it to accurately depict what was in front of me. I installed a new transducer , as suggested by a B&G rep. , I have yet been able to test it out, and will be hauling the boat asap . My question, do you find the forward scan to accurately depict an image of the bottom , or is the image erratic , showing the bottom depth shoot up and down. I thought that perhaps the mud bottom we have here does not reflect well and maybe it works better in a sand / coral  bottom . I also really like the radar and it uses very little power . It was nice to meet you in Annapolis.

Thanks,
Pat 
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Nov 8, 2017 8:38 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: phased electronics replacement

 

The Furuno radar never really interfaced with anything else. It worked, but didn't send or receive data to anything else in a useful way. It was a nice radar, but I find the new broadband radars are significantly better and easier to use for those times we find the radar most important. If the Furuno had kept working, we'd probably still have it.

The 3G unit from B&G (Navico) has no display of its own, it uses the MFD.

We installed a 12 inch monitor at the helm. I find that bigger is always better... and 
12 inch is as big as I can fit comfortably.  I am happy with it.  My old boat had a 7 in, and that was too small.  When I first was setting up the 12 inch unit with it's Navpod I was worried a bit about obstructing the view forward.  In the real world, it does not.  

It is not unusual that we run it in split screen mode (Chart/sounder, Chart/radar, radar/sounder. Chart/instrument, etc) so that 12 inch screen that might seem extravagant at first gets used a lot.

One thing I left out of our setup, was the Navico wifi.  That lets us echo the chartplotter display to an iPad anywhere on the boat.  Not QUITE as good as having two chartplotters, but very close!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
LMC, Fort Lauderdale, FL

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

Thanks for shari ng your electronics plan/setup!

One question though, did the Furuno radar interface with your B&G Zeus?  You mentioned you replaced it when it died and it sounded like that was after you installed the Zeus.  That would lower the entry price if I could just replace the chartplotter at the helm with one that had wifi, and could be picked up on a laptop below.

Oh, one more question, what size monitor did you put at the helm and are you happy with the size?

Thanks again!
Duane
Wanderer


greatketch@...
 

Pat,

I have not installed forward scanning sonar.  At least, not yet.

It has been a quite a while since I last evaluated forward sonars, so my comments might be very out of date.... The ability to actually display something I felt I could easily interpret in real time at a useful level of precision didn't impress me.  The times we bump bottom we are going from 6.9 feet to 6.5, not from 40 feet to 5 feet. I know some people swear by them, so there is utility there I am not seeing.

Double that on the power usage of the 3G radar!  We routinely leave the radar on at sea now.  One of the downsides people have listed about the broadband radars is that they are not as good at rain/squall detection.  I don't see it.  On our trip down here we were regularly seeing rather light squall activity well before the rain started to fall to the surface. For weather tracking and avoidance at sea, the 3G certainly meets my needs, even if it can't pick out a spot of drizzle at 20 miles!

It was good to meet you,

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
LMC, Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Bill, Due to a lightning strike we had every instrument on the boat replaced from tv antenna to ssb , everything. I chose to go with all B&G , 12 inch plotter at the helm and a 9 in. at the nav . station. I opted for the Forward Scan , it seemed erratic , with the image of the bottom spiking up and down , while in an area with a flat bottom (Chesapeake Bay ) . I could place no faith in it to accurately depict what was in front of me. I installed a new transducer , as suggested by a B&G rep. , I have yet been able to test it out, and will be hauling the boat asap . My question, do you find the forward scan to accurately depict an image of the bottom , or is the image erratic , showing the bottom depth shoot up and down. I thought that perhaps the mud bottom we have here does not reflect well and maybe it works better in a sand / coral  bottom . I also really like the radar and it uses very little power . It was nice to meet you in Annapolis.

Thanks,
Pat 
SM Shenanigans



Stephen Davis
 

My 2 cents worth...2 days ago we were slowly navigating down a remote uncharted bay in the less traveled Eastern San Blas of Panama. We were using the the Eric Bauhaus charts from "The Panama Cruisers Guide". His chart indicated 15 meters, and we were indicating 54' on the sounder just creeping along. We went from 54' to hitting something and coming to a rapid stop in the blink of an eye. We were able to back off, and immediately showed 54' again. The water was brown, and Liz was spotting on the bow with no indication that anything was ahead of us. Fortunately, we were going slow, and other than some scratches on the iron part of the keel, no harm done. 

Moral of the story is a functional forward looking sonar may have prevented this, and giving me the confidence to continue instead of turning around as we did. I have used an old interphase unit many years ago in Hawaii, and even with the older technology, I found it very useful. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Puerto Lindo, Panama

On Nov 9, 2017, at 10:45, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Pat,


I have not installed forward scanning sonar.  At least, not yet.

It has been a quite a while since I last evaluated forward sonars, so my comments might be very out of date.... The ability to actually display something I felt I could easily interpret in real time at a useful level of precision didn't impress me.  The times we bump bottom we are going from 6.9 feet to 6.5, not from 40 feet to 5 feet. I know some people swear by them, so there is utility there I am not seeing.

Double that on the power usage of the 3G radar!  We routinely leave the radar on at sea now.  One of the downsides people have listed about the broadband radars is that they are not as good at rain/squall detection.  I don't see it.  On our trip down here we were regularly seeing rather light squall activity well before the rain started to fall to the surface. For weather tracking and avoidance at sea, the 3G certainly meets my needs, even if it can't pick out a spot of drizzle at 20 miles!

It was good to meet you,

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
LMC, Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill, Due to a lightning strike we had every instrument on the boat replaced from tv antenna to ssb , everything. I chose to go with all B&G , 12 inch plotter at the helm and a 9 in. at the nav . station. I opted for the Forward Scan , it seemed erratic , with the image of the bottom spiking up and down , while in an area with a flat bottom (Chesapeake Bay ) . I could place no faith in it to accurately depict what was in front of me. I installed a new transducer , as suggested by a B&G rep. , I have yet been able to test it out, and will be hauling the boat asap . My question, do you find the forward scan to accurately depict an image of the bottom , or is the image erratic , showing the bottom depth shoot up and down. I thought that perhaps the mud bottom we have here does not reflect well and maybe it works better in a sand / coral  bottom . I also really like the radar and it uses very little power . It was nice to meet you in Annapolis.

Thanks,
Pat 
SM Shenanigans