main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io | [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Alexandre Uster von Baar

Hello Pat,

Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message for the last 9 days.
But just read this one out of the blue.

I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.
I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).
Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it and see if it is ok.

But I did save the cockpit extension.

General information, as it might take me another week to have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the last 5 years.
My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t think the insurance will be).
I still have a lot to do this week.
Then will be back making the inventory.

When things calm down, I will give a full detail report on the forum.
Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

       Alex, Do
 you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw ours
 away a couple years ago, can't tell you why , neither
 can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as a
 template. I hope things are getting much better for you
 ,you've been thru Hell .
 Thanks, 

 Pat

 SM Shenanigans

 -----Original
 Message-----

 From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

 To: amelyachtowners
 <amelyachtowners@...>

 Sent: Mon, Nov 20, 2017 6:28 am

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor switch / joystick

 Yes I do!

 I also have lots of parts for electric toilet (3 motors,
 many valve/seal kits, etc.)

 Engine room fan, cabin fan, etc.

 Navigation lights, anchor/tri color

 air conditioning capacitor and calpeda rebuilt kit

 Freezer/fridge thermostat, fan, et.c

 Main & Mizzen preventer

 2 sets of ballooner lines (red, blue & yellow)

 Balloner sheet

 3 sails

 etc.

 Alexandre

 --------------------------------------------

 On Sun, 11/19/17, pjn.mccallin@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor switch / joystick

  To: amelyachtowners@...

  Date: Sunday, November 19, 2017, 4:04 PM

        Alexandre, have just changed my yahoo email

  setting, hence your problem.

  Can you advise me if you still have

  the rudder spares the nut and packing, also the

  spanner?

  If so will

  liaise delivery with George.

  #yiv2145039179 #yiv2145039179 --

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Patrick McAneny

#36584

Alex, Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not have hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would have been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds.

Good Luck,

Pat

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Hello Pat,

Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message for the last 9 days.
But just read this one out of the blue.

I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.
I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).
Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it and see if it is ok.

But I did save the cockpit extension.

General information, as it might take me another week to have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the last 5 years.
My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t think the insurance will be).
I still have a lot to do this week.
Then will be back making the inventory.

When things calm down, I will give a full detail report on the forum.
Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

Alex, Do
you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw ours
away a couple years ago, can't tell you why , neither
can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as a
template. I hope things are getting much better for you
,you've been thru Hell .
Thanks,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Mon, Nov 20, 2017 6:28 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor switch / joystick

Yes I do!

I also have lots of parts for electric toilet (3 motors,
many valve/seal kits, etc.)

Engine room fan, cabin fan, etc.

Navigation lights, anchor/tri color

air conditioning capacitor and calpeda rebuilt kit

Freezer/fridge thermostat, fan, et.c

Main & Mizzen preventer

2 sets of ballooner lines (red, blue & yellow)

Balloner sheet

3 sails

etc.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 11/19/17, pjn.mccallin@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor switch / joystick

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Sunday, November 19, 2017, 4:04 PM

Alexandre, have just changed my yahoo email

setting, hence your problem.

Can you advise me if you still have

the rudder spares the nut and packing, also the

spanner?

If so will

liaise delivery with George.

#yiv2145039179 #yiv2145039179 --

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Alexandre Uster von Baar

#36590

Thanks Pat.

I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so no growth).  Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly taking over…

Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat lost control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance agreed I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.
They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I will write all about it.

Anyway, have a great day.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM

       Alex,
 Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not have
 hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things
 worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would have
 been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds. 
 Good Luck,

 Pat

 -----Original
 Message-----

 From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

 To: amelyachtowners
 <amelyachtowners@...>

 Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

 Hello Pat,

 Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message for
 the last 9 days.

 But just read this one out of the blue.

 I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

 I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

 Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it and
 see if it is ok.

 But I did save the cockpit extension.

 General information, as it might take me another week to
 have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you
 need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

 I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the
 invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the last
 5 years.

 My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t think
 the insurance will be).

 I still have a lot to do this week.

 Then will be back making the inventory.

 When things calm down, I will give a full detail report on
 the forum.

 Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured
 through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

 Sincerely, Alexandre

 --------------------------------------------

 On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
 wrote:

 Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

  To: amelyachtowners@...

  Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

        Alex, Do

  you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw
 ours

  away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,
 neither

  can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as a

  template. I hope things are getting much better for you

  ,you've been thru Hell .

  Thanks, 

  Pat

  SM Shenanigans

Patrick McAneny

#36591

Alex, I had forgotten it was your boat that was hit in Nassau , I remember how long that took to to resolve , if it was resolved. You have had more than your share of damage and hassles with insurance/repairs . I have Pantaenius and without a question , they replaced every piece of electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new and better equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't bring pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would urge owners insured with your company to cancel their policies and sight your treatment for their cancellation .

Stay Strong,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Nov 22, 2017 6:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Thanks Pat.

I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so no growth). Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly taking over…

Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat lost control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance agreed I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.
They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I will write all about it.

Anyway, have a great day.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM

Alex,
Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not have
hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things
worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would have
been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds.
Good Luck,

Pat

-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Hello Pat,

Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message for
the last 9 days.

But just read this one out of the blue.

I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it and
see if it is ok.

But I did save the cockpit extension.

General information, as it might take me another week to
have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you
need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the
invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the last
5 years.

My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t think
the insurance will be).

I still have a lot to do this week.

Then will be back making the inventory.

When things calm down, I will give a full detail report on
the forum.

Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured
through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

Alex, Do

you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw
ours

away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,
neither

can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as a

template. I hope things are getting much better for you

,you've been thru Hell .

Thanks,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>

#36594

Hello Pat & Alexandre,

I have been exposed to insurance companies internal workings in the past. I will play the devil’s advocate here so don’t shot the messenger.

- Their first reaction is to refuse payment due to… name some excuse.

- Then they negotiate for a lesser value than claimed… and normally, they will succeed as the insured normally cannot afford the mounting lawyers bills.

One important point to remember in Alexandre’s case, is that he spent 3 days removing the spares from his boat and moved to a “bunker like” hotel. They will latch on this to force the responsibility to Alexandre… (why did you not sail your boat away?? Will be the first question and regardless of his answer, the next question will be… “why did you remove the spares from your boat and move to “bunker”?

I hope owners who suffered damages due to the hurricanes of this past season receive fair treatment from their insurer;… but don’t expect miracles!

Best of luck to you Alexandre,

Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM 007

Panama.

Show quoted text

On 22 Nov 2017, at 08:01, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alex, I had forgotten it was your boat that was hit in Nassau , I remember how long that took to to resolve , if it was resolved. You have had more than your share of damage and hassles with insurance/repairs . I have Pantaenius and without a question , they replaced every piece of electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new and better equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't bring pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would urge owners insured with your company  to cancel their policies and sight your treatment for their cancellation .
Stay Strong,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Nov 22, 2017 6:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Thanks Pat.

I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so no growth). Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly taking over…

Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat lost control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance agreed I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.
They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I will write all about it.

Anyway, have a great day.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM

Alex,
Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not have
hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things
worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would have
been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds.
Good Luck,

Pat

-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Hello Pat,

Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message for
the last 9 days.

But just read this one out of the blue.

I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it and
see if it is ok.

But I did save the cockpit extension.

General information, as it might take me another week to
have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you
need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the
invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the last
5 years.

My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t think
the insurance will be).

I still have a lot to do this week.

Then will be back making the inventory.

When things calm down, I will give a full detail report on
the forum.

Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured
through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

Alex, Do

you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw
ours

away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,
neither

can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as a

template. I hope things are getting much better for you

,you've been thru Hell .

Thanks,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#36598

Hello Pat,

In Nassau, my insurance (Helvetia) agreed I was at zero fault, but since the opposite insurance (Pantaenius) only accepted 50% responsibility, Helvetia said it is not worth the expense to hire a lawyer… (of course, not their money).
We argued for 8 months until I gave up and accepted 50% responsibility.

Repair work had not started that my insurance went up 15%…  (because I have a claim now).

Also every time I got a quote, Helvetia said it was too expensive, that I had to look for a new one, etc.  that took 7 months (2 months in Nassau) and 5 months in Florida.
It took them 3 months to find someone who charged almost the same amount, but had to go up the river, etc.  I end up paying the guy myself.

Then 3.5 years later, I was paid $7000 am still being own $3000.

I have heard good reviews for Pantaenius and was considering to change.
I caution everyone who subscribe their insurance through De Lassee or using Helvetia to rethink their policy.
Rafael is also insured with Helvetia, I urge him to hire a lawyer, because they started doing the same thing with him.

Sincerely, Alexandre.

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 11/22/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 7:01 AM

       Alex, I
 had forgotten it was your boat that was hit in Nassau , I
 remember how long that took to to resolve , if it was
 resolved. You have had more than your share of damage and
 hassles with insurance/repairs . I have Pantaenius and
 without a question , they replaced every piece of
 electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new and better
 equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't bring
 pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would urge
 owners insured with your company  to cancel their policies
 and sight your treatment for their cancellation . 
 Stay Strong,

 Pat

 SM Shenanigans

 -----Original
 Message-----

 From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

 To: amelyachtowners
 <amelyachtowners@...>

 Sent: Wed, Nov 22, 2017 6:48 am

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

 Thanks Pat.

 I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a
 compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so no
 growth).  Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly
 taking over…

 Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat lost
 control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance agreed
 I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.

 They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I will
 write all about it.

 Anyway, have a great day.

 Sincerely, Alexandre

 --------------------------------------------

 On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

  To: amelyachtowners@...

  Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM

        Alex,

  Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not
 have

  hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things

  worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would have

  been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds. 

  Good Luck,

  Pat

  -----Original

  Message-----

  From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

  [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

  To: amelyachtowners

  <amelyachtowners@...>

  Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

  Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

  Hello Pat,

  Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message
 for

  the last 9 days.

  But just read this one out of the blue.

  I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

  I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

  Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it
 and

  see if it is ok.

  But I did save the cockpit extension.

  General information, as it might take me another week to

  have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you

  need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

  I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the

  invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the
 last

  5 years.

  My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t
 think

  the insurance will be).

  I still have a lot to do this week.

  Then will be back making the inventory.

  When things calm down, I will give a full detail report
 on

  the forum.

  Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured

  through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

  Sincerely, Alexandre

  --------------------------------------------

  On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...

  [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

  wrote:

  Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

   To: amelyachtowners@...

   Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

         Alex, Do

   you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw

  ours

   away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,

  neither

   can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as
 a

   template. I hope things are getting much better for you

   ,you've been thru Hell .

   Thanks, 

   Pat

   SM Shenanigans

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#36610

Jean Pierre & Company

My policy is for “agreed value” and they want to pay “market value”, I have to prove my boat was well maintained, etc.  will go in detail.

Yes they likely will succeed in paying less, but I want everybody to be aware of their practices.

I did not spend 3 days “emptying” the boat, I spent 2.5 days complying with insurance regulations.

Every time there was a close risk of hurricane I did the same thing.
My insurance policy says:  remove all sails (and personally I think it is stupid to remove the main and mizzen since they are in the mast - but this is what the insurance ask and if you don’t comply the policy says they will cancel the policy) removing and folding the Genoa, Staysail, Main and Mizzen took me 7 hours (I am by myself), then had to secure boom to deck, removing anything that can offer wind resistance (like putting the outboard into inside compartment).
Insurance ask to triple the dock lines, I did more than that as I had 21 dock lines and 2 chaines this it took me an entire day.
I already had lots of fencer on (always do), then I removed what you can.

I am not sure where you get the “bunker like” hotel.  If this is because of the Hurricane proof window (which broke), for your information, ALL hotels and most houses have hurricane proof windows and shutters, I just pick the cheapest of the closest hotel.

2 persons asked me why I didn’t leave. 
First, it is always easy to ask the question “after” the facts.

When in life people are faced with a danger (not just sailing but anything), the reaction is either “fight” or “fly”.  Hesitation and changing your mind will always be against you.  
Once you commit to one option, you can not change your mind as you loose valuable time.  A typical example is: you drive the light goes orange, you either accelerate or stop.  If you hesitate you loose time, if you first brake then accelerate or vice versa you end up in the middle of the intersection and put yourself more at risk of having an accident.

If mid way I had decided to leave (and where?) I would have spent many hours putting the sails back on.

Here are some example:
In 2014 Jerome (who asked me that question) owned a 54, we were in different marinas in Grand Bahama, both scarred, we stayed he even had his boat on a traveller, the storm passed far enough.
In 2015 I went to Atlantis Marina for Hurricane Joaquin which came pretty closed to Nassau, etc. then I made the mistake to leave too soon…
In 2016 Hurricane Matthew was too south be a factor but regardless my lines were tripled, etc. the dock master at Club Nautico called my boat a “Destroyer” because of all the fenders.
In July this year, I was in St Barth and there was chance of a tropical storm developing, like all my neighbors we was scarred because the port is not protected and they kick you out if there is a name storm.  Every time the storm either did not form or went away and we celebrated but I decided to leave Gustavia.
Early August I called Port de Plaisance, since their Hurricane slips were already booked I contacted IGY who still had hurricane slips and moved there.  For info, none of the boats in Port de Plaisance survived either. 
Hurricane Irma was expected to pass 20 NM north of Sint Maarten.

So for those who think of leaving when a hurricane is coming.
Do you know how many people left and are missing?
Jean Pierre and many, likely have wife or girlfriends with them, etc.
I am single hand and my insurance policy specifically limits me to 24 hours, then I must anchor or go into a marina for x hours.
Some other insurance like Y Insurance (which I was considering) only allow 16 hours solo.
If you don’t respect that, your insurance will void your coverage and this can not only cost your vessel but also the damaged you did to another vessel.

Then, where do you go???
North?  South?
BVI?  (all destroyed now)
Puerto Rico?
Again easy to say after the facts.
Then let’s say you go.
A Super Maramu will do 7 kt, a name storm will move 15 kt.
People should look at the Beaufort scale:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale
A Hurricane Category “1” has wave of 46 ft heigh.  That is over 4 floor ups.
Do you want to take the risk to end up in something like that?
I heard many stories of people largely exaggerating “thinking” they were in 40 foot sea with 40 kt of wind…

Anyway, I feel I am getting upset so it is time to stop.

Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 11/22/17, Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 8:21 AM

       Hello Pat & Alexandre,
 I have been exposed to insurance
 companies internal workings in the past.  I will play the
 devil’s advocate here so don’t shot the
 messenger.
 -	Their first reaction is to
 refuse payment due to… name some excuse.
 -	Then they negotiate for a
 lesser value than claimed… and normally, they will succeed
 as the insured normally cannot afford the mounting lawyers
 bills.
 One important point to remember
 in Alexandre’s case, is that he spent 3 days removing the
 spares from his boat and moved to a “bunker like” hotel.
  They will latch on this to force the responsibility to
 Alexandre… (why did you not sail your boat away?? Will be
 the first question and regardless of his answer, the next
 question will be… “why did you remove the spares from
 your boat and move to “bunker”?
 I hope owners who suffered
 damages due to the hurricanes of this past season receive
 fair treatment from their insurer;… but don’t expect
 miracles!
 Best of luck to you
 Alexandre,

 Jean-Pierre GermainSY Eleuthera, SM 007Panama.

 On 22 Nov 2017, at 08:01, Patrick
 Mcaneny sailw32@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
 wrote:
 Alex, I had forgotten it was your boat
 that was hit in Nassau , I remember how long that took to to
 resolve , if it was resolved. You have had more than your
 share of damage and hassles with insurance/repairs . I have
 Pantaenius and without a question , they replaced every
 piece of electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new
 and better equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't
 bring pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would
 urge owners insured with your company  to cancel their
 policies and sight your treatment for their cancellation
 . Stay
 Strong,PatSM Shenanigans

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Alexandre
 Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
 <amelyachtowners@...>
 To: amelyachtowners
 <amelyachtowners@...>
 Sent: Wed, Nov 22,
 2017 6:48 am
 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners]
 Helm cover

  Thanks Pat.  

 I hope the cover will be ok, may
 be because it was in a compartment where water was not
 exposed to the sun (so no growth). Otherwise it is sad to
 see the growth slowly taking over…  

 Based on my experience 3.5 years
 ago in Nassau (a boat lost control and damaged my bow
 pulpit) (and my insurance agreed I was at zero fault) I knew
 it would be a fight.  
 They are also doing
 the exact same thing with Rafael, I will write all about
 it. 

 Anyway, have a great day. 

 Sincerely, Alexandre

Ron Hynes <riffhynes@...>

#36807

Some years ago after the horrendous hurricane seasons of 2005-6 in Florida and elsewhere, discovery during a lawsuit involving a major insurer uncovered a voluminous report from one of the major management consulting firms (Peat, Marwick...if memory serves), that essentially recommended, “deny, deny, deny” as a successful tactic to minimize loses. This same report, almost verbatim, was disclosed in another lawsuit with another major insurer later in the year. Sad but true...you never know how good (or bad) your insurer is until you need it!

I’ve had Pantaenius for a couple of years and had my first claim in more than 40 years of boating resolved painlessly to my satisfaction. Of course, they might drop me on renewal and I won’t be surprised.

Similar to Alex, I was rammed in a marina in Norfolk about 15 years ago. The vessel causing the accident was insured by a company whose major business was insuring motorcycles. After months of negotiating and justifying my damages, my insurer stepped up and made me whole. They went to litigation over the incident and I never learned how it was settled, but my insurer dropped me under the pretense that I had placed my vessel in a vulnerable location in the marina. Against tide and wind. After striking me, he t-boned a ninety footer on the opposite side of the marina. I always wondered if his insurer though he was also in a vulnerable location!

Ron Hynes

954.319.0944

On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Show quoted text

Hello Pat,

In Nassau, my insurance (Helvetia) agreed I was at zero fault, but since the opposite insurance (Pantaenius) only accepted 50% responsibility, Helvetia said it is not worth the expense to hire a lawyer… (of course, not their money).
We argued for 8 months until I gave up and accepted 50% responsibility.

Repair work had not started that my insurance went up 15%… (because I have a claim now).

Also every time I got a quote, Helvetia said it was too expensive, that I had to look for a new one, etc. that took 7 months (2 months in Nassau) and 5 months in Florida.
It took them 3 months to find someone who charged almost the same amount, but had to go up the river, etc. I end up paying the guy myself.

Then 3.5 years later, I was paid $7000 am still being own $3000.

I have heard good reviews for Pantaenius and was considering to change.
I caution everyone who subscribe their insurance through De Lassee or using Helvetia to rethink their policy.
Rafael is also insured with Helvetia, I urge him to hire a lawyer, because they started doing the same thing with him.

Sincerely, Alexandre.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11/22/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 7:01 AM

Alex, I
had forgotten it was your boat that was hit in Nassau , I
remember how long that took to to resolve , if it was
resolved. You have had more than your share of damage and
hassles with insurance/repairs . I have Pantaenius and
without a question , they replaced every piece of
electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new and better
equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't bring
pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would urge
owners insured with your company to cancel their policies
and sight your treatment for their cancellation .
Stay Strong,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Wed, Nov 22, 2017 6:48 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Thanks Pat.

I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a
compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so no
growth). Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly
taking over…

Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat lost
control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance agreed
I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.

They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I will
write all about it.

Anyway, have a great day.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM

Alex,

Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not
have

hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things

worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would have

been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds.

Good Luck,

Pat

-----Original

Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners

<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Hello Pat,

Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message
for

the last 9 days.

But just read this one out of the blue.

I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it
and

see if it is ok.

But I did save the cockpit extension.

General information, as it might take me another week to

have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile you

need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the

invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the
last

5 years.

My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t
think

the insurance will be).

I still have a lot to do this week.

Then will be back making the inventory.

When things calm down, I will give a full detail report
on

the forum.

Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured

through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

Alex, Do

you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw

ours

away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,

neither

can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as
a

template. I hope things are getting much better for you

,you've been thru Hell .

Thanks,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#36814

In my case, in Nassau (and once I am done with all that, I will write down everything), the opposite insurance of the powerboat that lost control hit my bow (no damage at this point), then “panic” and put tingfull reverse and that is what created the damages, so that insurance was Pantaenius.

Pantaenius told my insurance (De Lassee/Helvetia) that my boat was “longer” than the slip and only accepted 50% responsibility and ask me what was my opinion?!?
I replied I did not know, that as far as i am concerned was not at fault, so I (kind of) hired a legal (cost me diner) that said: “no the fact that the dock is not as long as the vessel doesn’t have anything to do, not a valid argument” so I replied that to my insurance.

Then Pantaenius came back and said: “as you said there was wind a current, so our customer is not at fault and we only accept 50% responsibility” - again Lassee/Helvetia ask my opinion.
Here again, I don’t know what to reply, as far as I am concerned not my fault.  But again cost me another diner to get legal opinion.  So in this case: “Wind and Current” could be a factor “IF” they were strong enough, like in the case of a tropical storm, but certainly not in that accident, so I replied that to my insurance.
At that point, I am questioning DeLassee/Helvetia don’t they know these things???  Why even asking me the question, like if I was at fault.
I could go on details where DeLassee told me: “We told you not to be in the US waters”.
First I was paying 30% more premium to sail in US water - but as I reminded Mr Geofrrey DeLasse, The Bahamas, are NOT part of the US water, it is a former British Colonie independent for 40 years (he never replied to that).

Then I could go on and on how difficult it was in Nassau to get quote for stainless, fiberglass, electrical, rigging, nobody wanted to accept responsibility if things did not fit, etc. took me 2 months…  (out of these 2 months I spend 80 hours on that).

Then was Florida, I finally got a quote, the insurance said it was too expensive, took the 3 months to get another one (same price), then the insurance agreed I was not at fault, but it was not worth for the to hire a lawyer because of the small amount ($20.000).

So after 2 months in Nassau and 5 month in Florida, I gave up.
Then as I said, I got reimbursed $7000 and am still waiting for $3000, I signed many documents and every month I remind them, they acknowledge, etc.



--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Thu, 11/30/17, Ron Hynes riffhynes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
 To: amelyachtowners@...
 Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017, 11:16 AM

       Some years ago
 after the horrendous hurricane seasons of 2005-6 in Florida
 and elsewhere, discovery during a lawsuit involving a major
 insurer uncovered a voluminous report from one of the major
 management consulting firms (Peat, Marwick...if memory
 serves), that essentially recommended, “deny, deny,
 deny” as a successful tactic to minimize loses. This same
 report, almost verbatim, was disclosed in another lawsuit
 with another major insurer later in the year. Sad but
 true...you never know how good (or bad) your insurer is
 until you need it!
 I’ve
 had Pantaenius for a couple of years and had my first claim
 in more than 40 years of boating resolved painlessly to my
 satisfaction. Of course, they might drop me on renewal and I
 won’t be surprised. 
 Similar to Alex, I was rammed in a
 marina in Norfolk about 15 years ago. The vessel causing the
 accident was insured by a company whose major business was
 insuring motorcycles. After months of negotiating and
 justifying my damages, my insurer stepped up and made me
 whole. They went to litigation over the incident and I never
 learned how it was settled, but my insurer dropped me under
 the pretense that I had placed my vessel in a vulnerable
 location in the marina.  Against tide and wind.  After
 striking me, he t-boned a ninety footer on the opposite side
 of the marina. I always wondered if his insurer though he
 was also in a vulnerable location!

 Ron
 Hynes954.319.0944
 On Nov 22,
 2017, at 3:56 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
 wrote:

       Hello Pat,

 In Nassau, my insurance (Helvetia) agreed I was at zero
 fault, but since the opposite insurance (Pantaenius) only
 accepted 50% responsibility, Helvetia said it is not worth
 the expense to hire a lawyer… (of course, not their
 money).

 We argued for 8 months until I gave up and accepted 50%
 responsibility.

 Repair work had not started that my insurance went up 15%…
  (because I have a claim now).

 Also every time I got a quote, Helvetia said it was too
 expensive, that I had to look for a new one, etc.  that took
 7 months (2 months in Nassau) and 5 months in Florida.

 It took them 3 months to find someone who charged almost the
 same amount, but had to go up the river, etc.  I end up
 paying the guy myself.

 Then 3.5 years later, I was paid $7000 am still being own
 $3000.

 I have heard good reviews for Pantaenius and was considering
 to change.

 I caution everyone who subscribe their insurance through De
 Lassee or using Helvetia to rethink their policy.

 Rafael is also insured with Helvetia, I urge him to hire a
 lawyer, because they started doing the same thing with him.

 Sincerely, Alexandre.

 --------------------------------------------

 On Wed, 11/22/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

  To: amelyachtowners@...

  Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 7:01 AM

        Alex, I

  had forgotten it was your boat that was hit in Nassau ,
 I

  remember how long that took to to resolve , if it was

  resolved. You have had more than your share of damage
 and

  hassles with insurance/repairs . I have Pantaenius and

  without a question , they replaced every piece of

  electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new and
 better

  equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't bring

  pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would
 urge

  owners insured with your company  to cancel their
 policies

  and sight your treatment for their cancellation . 

  Stay Strong,

  Pat

  SM Shenanigans

  -----Original

  Message-----

  From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

  [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

  To: amelyachtowners

  <amelyachtowners@...>

  Sent: Wed, Nov 22, 2017 6:48 am

  Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

  Thanks Pat.

  I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a

  compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so
 no

  growth).  Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly

  taking over…

  Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat
 lost

  control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance
 agreed

  I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.

  They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I
 will

  write all about it.

  Anyway, have a great day.

  Sincerely, Alexandre

  --------------------------------------------

  On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...

  [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

  wrote:

  Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

   To: amelyachtowners@...

   Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM

         Alex,

   Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not

  have

   hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things

   worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would
 have

   been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds. 

   Good Luck,

   Pat

   -----Original

   Message-----

   From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

   [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

   To: amelyachtowners

   <amelyachtowners@...>

   Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

   Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

   Hello Pat,

   Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message

  for

   the last 9 days.

   But just read this one out of the blue.

   I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

   I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

   Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it

  and

   see if it is ok.

   But I did save the cockpit extension.

   General information, as it might take me another week
 to

   have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile
 you

   need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

   I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the

   invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the

  last

   5 years.

   My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t

  think

   the insurance will be).

   I still have a lot to do this week.

   Then will be back making the inventory.

   When things calm down, I will give a full detail report

  on

   the forum.

   Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured

   through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

   Sincerely, Alexandre

   --------------------------------------------

   On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...

   [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

   wrote:

   Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

    To: amelyachtowners@...

    Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM

          Alex, Do

    you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw

   ours

    away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,

   neither

    can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as

  a

    template. I hope things are getting much better for
 you

    ,you've been thru Hell .

    Thanks, 

    Pat

    SM Shenanigans