[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@byg.dtu.dk [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464


Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Alexandre
Thanks, however I expect that your document is not based on the Internatonal Tonnage Certificate and related calculation, since the British Registry does not demand this when the ship is less than 24m. Therefore your Tonnage is based on the simple approximate formula:
 length x width x debth x 0.16 = tonnage

Rhumb Runner was also British, however as the Irish also the Danish Registry is very demanding above 15m.

Otherwise I am very interesser in the document if it includes the relevant volumens used for the detailleddet calculation.

Kind Regards
Jeppe , email:  jej at byg.dtu.dk


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464





 


eric freedman
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

That would be US tons?

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


eric freedman
 

I am not sure,

The numbers came from Amel when she was made.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:39 AM
To: 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

That would be US tons?

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464





 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs.
Danny
Sm 299
Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


seagasm@...
 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

That's why I asked if it was US tons. A tonne and an imperial ton are very close. US tons, lighter. Like US gallons.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:42, "seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
 

Hello, 

From my humble experience with tonnage calculations when designing and registering fishing vessels I believe the tonnage is linked to the volume of the boat, not its weight and is referring to ancient cargoes of barils or ‘tonneau’ in french.

I recommend that you ask amel as they can easily give you this from the linesplan or you need to spend some time out of the water with a theodolite and pick up the hull lines to calculate the volume. You then use the class formulae to get the tonnage value required by your specific country of registry. 

It is interesting that it is required for Sailing boat of this size, usually in Europe it is for commercial vessels above 24m, hence many fishermen asking for 23.95m boats!

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 08:42, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Redouan
You are absolutely right. The International Tonnage Certificate is a virtual measure based on the volume of the ship. And yes it is expensive to get the measurer to make the line-drawings again and calculate the volume that is one of the basic parameteres of the tonnage calculation. I will try my luck with at Amel, if there is no Irish or Swedish registered SM with the needed numbers or calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks for your answer.
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464
_/_/)


Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
 

Once your boat is out of the water it is relatively easy to make the linesplan with a theodolite. You then plot them and interpolate the volume between areas of each cross section. If you have a software like AutoCAD it would be even simpler.

It is a nice winter evening project to do if you have the boat out of the water.  I shall be back to the boat in January and if I can get hold of a theodolite in Portimao, I might do it just to bring my naval architect spirit back and get the SM linesplan!

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 10:58, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Redouan
You are absolutely right. The International Tonnage Certificate is a virtual measure based on the volume of the ship. And yes it is expensive to get the measurer to make the line-drawings again and calculate the volume that is one of the basic parameteres of the tonnage calculation. I will try my luck with at Amel, if there is no Irish or Swedish registered SM with the needed numbers or calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks for your answer.
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464
_/_/)


Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Rédouan
Thanks, sounds easy, if you know what you are doing.
My SM is currently in the water and winterized for the winter.
I hope Amel can help me with calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks again
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464


Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
 

I am sure they have the linesplan. At least try to get scaled regular sections from them, I will dig out my old books and see what can be done.

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 11:58, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Rédouan
Thanks, sounds easy, if you know what you are doing.
My SM is currently in the water and winterized for the winter.
I hope Amel can help me with calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks again
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464


Andy Buxford
 

If you're on the Part 1 registry then these weights were recorded when
your boat was surveyed.

https://ydsa.co.uk/registration/how-do-i-arrange-a-measurement/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage


On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons
(76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you
I can email you the copy of that certificate.


Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Andy
The British Registry allows the use of a simple approximate formula, which is not recognized by the Danish Registry.
Thanks anyway
Jeppe


Ian Park
 

Figures for a Santorin are -
Part 1 brass registration plate on board says 15 13/100 tons
Registration certificate says Gross Tonnage 18.11 and Registered tonnage 15.13
The original AMEL brochure says Displacement loaded 22,045 lbs and total weight empty 18,738 lbs, ballast 8,156lbs.
When hauled out in UK by crane we registered a shade over 15 tons (British).

Confirm previous comments that Part 1 registration refers to an ancient measurement of predicted volume.

If anyone fancies doing the math between all these figures - enjoy!

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


greatketch@...
 

Do not assume that the "tons" shown on your documentation certificate has anything to do with the vessel's weight.

It is an archaic calculation that is an estimate of the boat's cargo carrying capacity based on its volume. On US certificates it is calculated from the boat’s width, height, and length.  

Because, you know many of us haul freight with our Amel’s and the government needs to be sure it gets its duties collected accurately.  Or something.

Some countries use a rough approximate calculation (like the USA and the UK) others take this to the silly limit and require an exact calculation of the internal volume from a lines drawing of the hull.  The whole concept is rather a waste to time and energy  for a yacht, but rules is rules!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote :

Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs.
Danny
Sm 299
Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


Beaute Olivier
 

Hello,

What Bill K says is right.
On a British Registry Certificate for a Super Maramu, the Gross tonnage is 33.24, the Register tonnage is 23.35. I remember people from Bureau Veritas coming to the Amel Shipyard and measuring the boats that would fly a British flag.
Today, a vessel tonnage is only mentionned with a figure : The tonnage of this vessel is 480. There are rules for vessels of a tonnage above 500.
What is  a tonnage? A volume calculated differently according to the countries of registration. In France a Super Maramu's tonnage is 30.14.
The "tons" expressed previously is in fact 100 cubic feet. This is international for all kinds of vessels. Yes, even the French use this system (tons, which in French is named tonneau, which means "barrel"). 100 cubic feet is approximately 2.83 cubic meters.
This volume is mainly made and assessed to put several kinds of taxes on the vessel...cargo ships mainly but leisure crafts too.

Finally, if I say that the Super Maramu light displacement is 15.3 tons, this is a ton which weighs 1000 kg, the weight of one cubic meter of water. This is typically a metric figure.

And tonnage is not directly related to displacement. A Super Maramu made of carbon/foam sandwich would have a much lighter displacement but the same tonnage as your Super Maramus (in the same country of registration!!).

Since 2013, the tonnage of a leisure craft is no more mentioned in a French flag certificate...

Olivier




On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 4:41 PM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Do not assume that the "tons" shown on your documentation certificate has anything to do with the vessel's weight.

It is an archaic calculation that is an estimate of the boat's cargo carrying capacity based on its volume. On US certificates it is calculated from the boat’s width, height, and length.  

Because, you know many of us haul freight with our Amel’s and the government needs to be sure it gets its duties collected accurately.  Or something.

Some countries use a rough approximate calculation (like the USA and the UK) others take this to the silly limit and require an exact calculation of the internal volume from a lines drawing of the hull.  The whole concept is rather a waste to time and energy  for a yacht, but rules is rules!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs.
Danny
Sm 299
Ocean Pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]"
 
Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 



Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 


Redouan,

Exactly. Gross and Net tons are calculated figures based on volume and have nothing to do with the vessel's weight.

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Nov 29, 2017 02:43, "Rédouan Assar red1assar@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello, 


From my humble experience with tonnage calculations when designing and registering fishing vessels I believe the tonnage is linked to the volume of the boat, not its weight and is referring to ancient cargoes of barils or ‘tonneau’ in french.

I recommend that you ask amel as they can easily give you this from the linesplan or you need to spend some time out of the water with a theodolite and pick up the hull lines to calculate the volume. You then use the class formulae to get the tonnage value required by your specific country of registry. 

It is interesting that it is required for Sailing boat of this size, usually in Europe it is for commercial vessels above 24m, hence many fishermen asking for 23.95m boats!

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 08:42, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171