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[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.


James Sterling
 

Update, I installed the T series Sealand 24v.  Although the specs state that if mounted vertically it will be somewhat less efficient, I cannot see any functional difference.  This pump is equal in performance to the Jabsco that was on it.  Much quieter, in fact almost too quiet.  It only draws 3amps and has good suction.  Thanks for the suggestion.




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On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 12:15:53 PM CST, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

I used one of those Jabsco diaphragm pumps as a shower sump discharge.  I think it lasted about a year.  Sealand makes a pump that is much more robust than anything from Jabsco.  The T-series discharge pump is likely the one you would want.  Like this:


http://amzn.to/2jzkzTD

Technically, they are bellows pumps, not diaphragm pumps, and that is a good thing.  No diaphragm to tear or wear.  It is sometimes described as a "macerator" pump, but it is not, it does not need to be, it pumps all kinds of lumps and chunks without needing to chop it up.

I used one of these for 15 years as part of my Vacuflush toilet in daily use.  Changing the check valves occasionally was the only maintenance ever required.  The check valves are the same kind of joker valve used in toilets.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

My boat has a Jabsco Model 59090-0012 Diaphragm pump that has failed.  The pump is no longer manufactured.  Parts may be difficult to find.  Can anyone recommend a replacement diaphragm pump?

James Sterling

> S/V Longbow SM2K #418


greatketch@...
 

Have you had a chance to flow test it yet? My Amel OEM pump pumps about 50% of its rated flow as installed...  I am wondering if you see the same thing with the Sealand pump?

Bill Kinney
sm160 Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.


Alan Leslie
 

Maybe relevant....we replaced the AMFA pump with a Johnson VIKING 32.
It seems to pump at about 75% of it's rated flow.
I wonder if it has something to do with the 1.5 meter vertical feed from the sump ??
In any event the Johnson pump drains the sump noticeably faster than the original, which IMHO is a really bad design.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Gulf Harbour...waiting for the wind to die down...


James Alton
 

Bill,

   If you can give me an estimate of the head that the Sealand would be pumping against and I will find some time to test my Sealand T2 pump for you.   My impression of the pump is that the motor is quite strong for the size of the pump so I don’t think that the flow falls off as fast as with some of the other pumps but it will be interesting to find out!

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 15, 2018, at 11:01 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Have you had a chance to flow test it yet? My Amel OEM pump pumps about 50% of its rated flow as installed...  I am wondering if you see the same thing with the Sealand pump?


Bill Kinney
sm160 Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.



Dan Carlson
 

A bilge/sump pump update from BeBe.  

About 2 weeks after launch in December the installed Marina bilge pump fails due to cracked plastic pump drive gear. (At this time the plastic piece that joins between handle and diaphram on the manual whale also broke).  I replaced the Marina electric with the back-up (rebuild of the same model)  and bought a new Whale manual (and ordered replacement parts for the broken whale).  The replacement Marina pump failed about 3 weeks later (same cracked plastic gear).  In the mean time I sent a request to SAV Amel with a picture of the broken gear. They replied that they no longer support the pump?  Then I arrived in le Marin and talked to Alban here at Amel.  He had a new pump on the shelf and a used one (the used one also had a broken plastic gear).  He said he had replacement gears on order from Amel (as they have to replace them several times a year) but no estimated delivery date.  

With 4 guests arriving this week, I went over to Caribe Marine and purchased a 24v Rule 1100 lph pump off the shelf (56 euro), some short hose, a 90 degree elbow, and a piece to connect the hoses where the missing marina pump had been.  And 5 ft of wire to connect to the existing connectors.  

I was pleasantly surprised with the speed that it empties the sump (comparable), and you can barely hear it.  

So now i am watching this thread to decide the long term solutuon.  A) fix marina pumps if I can get replacement gears? B) pick a suitable reliable alternative, C) buy another case of Rule pumps for the cost of a new Marina pump and see how long they last...

Other thoughts?  

Thanks and regards,  Dan & Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387






On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 1:32 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

Maybe relevant....we replaced the AMFA pump with a Johnson VIKING 32.

It seems to pump at about 75% of it's rated flow.
I wonder if it has something to do with the 1.5 meter vertical feed from the sump ??
In any event the Johnson pump drains the sump noticeably faster than the original, which IMHO is a really bad design.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Gulf Harbour...waiting for the wind to die down...


greatketch@...
 

Don,

The problem with submersible centrifugal pumps like the Rule is they are the type of pump least tolerant of solids. They are best to pump only clean water.  Lots of things get into our sumps (which are really gray water sumps, not bilges) that have the potential to cause grief with centrifugal pumps.

You might have control over some of these things, by watching what you put down the galley sink for example, but some of the worst is hair from the shower drains that wraps around the shaft above the impeller, eventually stopping the pump from turning.

Having an electric pump constantly immersed in water is also a potential source for very serious stray current corrosion--if there is a fault in the insulation or wiring.

If you can't source an exact replacement, a Dometic/Sealand T-series discharge pump is a good alternative. Tough, long lasting, and will pump almost anything that can flow through the pipe.

Lavac also sells a 24 volt electric diaphragm pump for their vacuum toilets that might be a good choice, but I have no personnel experience with those.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Great Harbor Cay, Bahamas


---In amelyachtowners@..., <dancarlson367@...> wrote :

A bilge/sump pump update from BeBe.  

About 2 weeks after launch in December the installed Marina bilge pump fails due to cracked plastic pump drive gear. (At this time the plastic piece that joins between handle and diaphram on the manual whale also broke).  I replaced the Marina electric with the back-up (rebuild of the same model)  and bought a new Whale manual (and ordered replacement parts for the broken whale).  The replacement Marina pump failed about 3 weeks later (same cracked plastic gear).  In the mean time I sent a request to SAV Amel with a picture of the broken gear. They replied that they no longer support the pump?  Then I arrived in le Marin and talked to Alban here at Amel.  He had a new pump on the shelf and a used one (the used one also had a broken plastic gear).  He said he had replacement gears on order from Amel (as they have to replace them several times a year) but no estimated delivery date.  

With 4 guests arriving this week, I went over to Caribe Marine and purchased a 24v Rule 1100 lph pump off the shelf (56 euro), some short hose, a 90 degree elbow, and a piece to connect the hoses where the missing marina pump had been.  And 5 ft of wire to connect to the existing connectors.  

I was pleasantly surprised with the speed that it empties the sump (comparable), and you can barely hear it.  

So now i am watching this thread to decide the long term solutuon.  A) fix marina pumps if I can get replacement gears? B) pick a suitable reliable alternative, C) buy another case of Rule pumps for the cost of a new Marina pump and see how long they last...

Other thoughts?  

Thanks and regards,  Dan & Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387


James Alton
 

Bill,

   A while back we were discussing the Sealand T series pump as a possible replacement for the original bilge pump and wondering what the flow rate would be.  I just installed one of the these pumps and did a test for you.  Here are the conditions:

1.  Sealand T series pump operating at 13.3 volts.
2.  1 1/2" hose used for the pickup and discharge.
3.  Length of pickup hose to pump 7 1/2'
4.  Length of discharge hose:  2 1/2'
5.  Gentle bends in hose shields corrugated exhaust hose.
6.  Discharge is into a 1 1/2" tee fitting for a scupper drain that is above the waterline.
7.  Pickup is fitted with a Whale coarse plastic strainer, probably some restriction.
8.  Total lift is approx. 6'  (if you need a more accurate measurement let me know) 

Test procedure:  The bilge was pumped down until the T series pump was just starting to suck air.  5 measured gallons of water were added to the bilge and the pump was run until it just began sucking air.  Time required:  52 seconds, so it appears that the capacity for this installation is about 345 gph.  

Sorry that it took a while to get this data to you.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


 

James,

Thanks for the detail information...great test!

That output is about 22 liters/min and lower than the OEM. The OEM MARINA ZZ was spec'd at 32 liters/min.

It is a difficult choice, with no clear winner, but I suggest this pump as the best substitute available today:


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 12:08 PM lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


   A while back we were discussing the Sealand T series pump as a possible replacement for the original bilge pump and wondering what the flow rate would be.  I just installed one of the these pumps and did a test for you.  Here are the conditions:

1.  Sealand T series pump operating at 13.3 volts.
2.  1 1/2" hose used for the pickup and discharge.
3.  Length of pickup hose to pump 7 1/2'
4.  Length of discharge hose:  2 1/2'
5.  Gentle bends in hose shields corrugated exhaust hose.
6.  Discharge is into a 1 1/2" tee fitting for a scupper drain that is above the waterline.
7.  Pickup is fitted with a Whale coarse plastic strainer, probably some restriction.
8.  Total lift is approx. 6'  (if you need a more accurate measurement let me know) 

Test procedure:  The bilge was pumped down until the T series pump was just starting to suck air.  5 measured gallons of water were added to the bilge and the pump was run until it just began sucking air.  Time required:  52 seconds, so it appears that the capacity for this installation is about 345 gph.  

Sorry that it took a while to get this data to you.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


Alan Leslie
 

We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump
Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 

Alan,

That looks like a very good choice. As I am sure you realize, the mistake that some make is replacing the OEM bilge with a non-diaphragm pump that is incapable of taking some small solids.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 2:42 PM divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump

Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 

Did you have any issues mounting it?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 2:47 PM Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Alan,

That looks like a very good choice. As I am sure you realize, the mistake that some make is replacing the OEM bilge with a non-diaphragm pump that is incapable of taking some small solids.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 2:42 PM divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump

Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Alan Leslie
 

The mounting holes are differently spaced than the original, so I made a mounting plate out of a nylon kitchen cutting board and drilled holes in the appropriate places, mounted the pump to the board loosely then mounted the whole assembly on the original bolts and tightened everything up.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Vuda Marina, Fiji


 

Alan,

Great. I think this Johnson pump may be better than the Vetus that I have been recommending. I am am now recommending the Johnson because it much more widely available worldwide, including Amazon in the US.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 17:41 divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The mounting holes are differently spaced than the original, so I made a mounting plate out of a nylon kitchen cutting board and drilled holes in the appropriate places, mounted the pump to the board loosely then mounted the whole assembly on the original bolts and tightened everything up.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Vuda Marina, Fiji


Patrick McAneny
 

Alan, Were you able to buy that pump in a 24v . I looked at it on Amazon and only found it in 12v.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump
Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Barry Connor
 

Hi Alan,
Really appreciate the info and link. Amazon only have this in 12v but have found suppliers in US (about$300) and EU. I also have an old cutting board to use as a backing plate. Should be easy install.
Amel have advised they have the gear/sprocket for the original AMFA pump, waiting on price from them so as to make a decision which way to go.
Best Regards
Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54.  #17
Trogir.  Croatia 


On Jul 1, 2018, at 13:29, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alan, Were you able to buy that pump in a 24v . I looked at it on Amazon and only found it in 12v.

Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump
Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Patrick McAneny
 

Steve, Thanks I don't know why I could not have found it. Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Morrison steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Jul 1, 2018 9:06 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
Here is the link to the 24v model on Amazon.


All the best, 
Steve Morrison
SM 380 TouRai
Hilton Head, SC

On Jul 1, 2018, at 7:29 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alan, Were you able to buy that pump in a 24v . I looked at it on Amazon and only found it in 12v.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump
Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437



Barry Connor
 

Hi again Alan,

Just an update on getting my AMFA bilge pump fixed.
I got the part from Amel, cost with VAT and shipping was US$270.
I have put it back together and now at least I am not hand pumping.
I am most certainly going to order the Viking unit you recommended. It will come from the US and I can have it delivered to my daughter in FL who will bring it to me on her next visit.
I will make sure that I get the extras with the Viking. The diaphragm service kit was going to be about another US$100 from Amel.
Thank’s again for your advise.
Best Regards 

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54.  #17
Trogir. Croatia 


On Jul 1, 2018, at 16:28, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Steve, Thanks I don't know why I could not have found it. Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Morrison steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Jul 1, 2018 9:06 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
Here is the link to the 24v model on Amazon.


All the best, 
Steve Morrison
SM 380 TouRai
Hilton Head, SC

On Jul 1, 2018, at 7:29 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alan, Were you able to buy that pump in a 24v . I looked at it on Amazon and only found it in 12v.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump
Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437