[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip


christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

hi there James

tried the eBay code but Zero results reply ... lost
tried purchase from Prévalent-first but cannot complete registration ...
tried to purchase via getezone site ... no reply yet

As I do not want to lose one of those pumps I would ask you to purchase both & sell back one to me, I will pay for both - bank transfer to your account - and arrange with you for shipment of one to me in Martinique. Soon as mounted I will confirm if OK & then you can reimburse the one you chose.

Your help is really appreciated there

fair winds

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Le Marin Martinique



‎23‎ ‎janvier‎ ‎2018‎ ‎17‎:‎00‎:‎25‎ ‎-04, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :


 

Christian Alby,


   Can you verify if the correct Perkins part number for the oil pump you need is #41314114?  If so then I may have found two sources for new surplus oil pumps.    One is located on the website at: https://www.prevalent-first.top/perkins-4-154-oil-pump-41314114-cf-bedford-marine-engine-p-5822.html.  I am thinking ordering one for myself as a spare if this information looks correct to you.  

The other pump is located on Ebay, item #162047206348.  The Ebay ad shows part #41314114 and says that this pump fits the 4.154. 

Fingers crossed that this helps..  I also have some inquiries in for a used pump.  

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

162047206348

On Jan 23, 2018, at 3:06 PM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James

Thanks for assistance
 I do not remember the way the gear is fixed but will try to see from pictures taken.
The non-marine version -perkins made, not the kubota look alike - has the same oil pump.
Fair wind
Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique



Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 15:33, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Christian Alby,


   I have been keeping my eye out for a replacement pump for you but so far no luck.  I think that you are correct that the worn pump is at least part of what is causing the lower than normal oil pressure.  The sudden drop of oil pressure to 0 when you reach 2000 RPM is very strange and I have been pondering a possible cause.  It makes me think that somehow the pump gear has sopped stopped turning.    Did you notice if any of the gears on your oil pump are pinned to the shaft?  I have seen some oil pumps secured with pins but am not sure about the Perkins 4.154, hence this is just an educated guess.  If one of these pins were to shear from the engine runaway and lack of lubrication which you said occurred when the engine failed,  you might still have enough friction present to drive the pump gear at low engine speeds but it could then begin to slip.  Replacement of that pin (if it exists) might solve the problem with the sudden loss of oil pressure.   Please let me know if you someday figure out what is the actual cause of this sudden loss of oil pressure.   I will post here if I am able to find another pump.   Can you tell me from your research if the non-marine version of the 4-154 has the same oil pump as your engine?

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 23, 2018, at 8:15 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Miles,

The  voice of Volvo D2/55 la 3 fold 
Available immediatly in Martinique.
Do not want a turbo on my marine engine, useless & more prone to failures.
Recent model , widely spread, will find parts for a while.

Against volvo
Tied up with agents for service & parts.
Price ...

I still might give up on replacement here in martinique & keep on looking for an oil pump to do repairs, then sail to better deal location.

Note : old faithful M 4.154 is still reliable & so easy to run & maintain. Regrets 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique.






Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 8:37, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Hi there Christian

As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives.. 

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes 

Miles


On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump ..... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?









christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

hi there James
best news this morning, reading yur msge
the pump shown on prévalent web site P/N 41314114 looks a lot like the pump I removed from the engine
inlet, outlet flanges look alike
shaft & gear - slight differences but look alike for length & size
only pressure relief valve location looks slightly different
I shall try & order the one on prévalent-first ... today (not well versed on eBay purchase, might try)
price is nothing compared to cost of new engine; Worth a try to repair with this pump.

the one on eBay is same P/N therefore a good bet that it will match - will check pictures & revert.

thanks again for assistance

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Now in Le Marin Martinique

Christian Alby - France home fixe +33 (0)5 34 39 06 02 home Internet +33 (0)9 60 37 22 72 mobile +33 (0)6 42 69 07 80 


Le ‎mardi‎ ‎23‎ ‎janvier‎ ‎2018‎ ‎17‎:‎00‎:‎25‎ ‎-04, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :


 

Christian Alby,


   Can you verify if the correct Perkins part number for the oil pump you need is #41314114?  If so then I may have found two sources for new surplus oil pumps.    One is located on the website at: https://www.prevalent-first.top/perkins-4-154-oil-pump-41314114-cf-bedford-marine-engine-p-5822.html.  I am thinking ordering one for myself as a spare if this information looks correct to you.  

The other pump is located on Ebay, item #162047206348.  The Ebay ad shows part #41314114 and says that this pump fits the 4.154. 

Fingers crossed that this helps..  I also have some inquiries in for a used pump.  

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

162047206348

On Jan 23, 2018, at 3:06 PM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James

Thanks for assistance
 I do not remember the way the gear is fixed but will try to see from pictures taken.
The non-marine version -perkins made, not the kubota look alike - has the same oil pump.
Fair wind
Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique



Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 15:33, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Christian Alby,


   I have been keeping my eye out for a replacement pump for you but so far no luck.  I think that you are correct that the worn pump is at least part of what is causing the lower than normal oil pressure.  The sudden drop of oil pressure to 0 when you reach 2000 RPM is very strange and I have been pondering a possible cause.  It makes me think that somehow the pump gear has sopped stopped turning.    Did you notice if any of the gears on your oil pump are pinned to the shaft?  I have seen some oil pumps secured with pins but am not sure about the Perkins 4.154, hence this is just an educated guess.  If one of these pins were to shear from the engine runaway and lack of lubrication which you said occurred when the engine failed,  you might still have enough friction present to drive the pump gear at low engine speeds but it could then begin to slip.  Replacement of that pin (if it exists) might solve the problem with the sudden loss of oil pressure.   Please let me know if you someday figure out what is the actual cause of this sudden loss of oil pressure.   I will post here if I am able to find another pump.   Can you tell me from your research if the non-marine version of the 4-154 has the same oil pump as your engine?

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 23, 2018, at 8:15 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Miles,

The  voice of Volvo D2/55 la 3 fold 
Available immediatly in Martinique.
Do not want a turbo on my marine engine, useless & more prone to failures.
Recent model , widely spread, will find parts for a while.

Against volvo
Tied up with agents for service & parts.
Price ...

I still might give up on replacement here in martinique & keep on looking for an oil pump to do repairs, then sail to better deal location.

Note : old faithful M 4.154 is still reliable & so easy to run & maintain. Regrets 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique.






Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 8:37, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Hi there Christian

As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives.. 

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes 

Miles


On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump ..... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?









James Alton
 

Christian Alby,

   Can you verify if the correct Perkins part number for the oil pump you need is #41314114?  If so then I may have found two sources for new surplus oil pumps.    One is located on the website at: https://www.prevalent-first.top/perkins-4-154-oil-pump-41314114-cf-bedford-marine-engine-p-5822.html.  I am thinking ordering one for myself as a spare if this information looks correct to you.  

The other pump is located on Ebay, item #162047206348.  The Ebay ad shows part #41314114 and says that this pump fits the 4.154. 

Fingers crossed that this helps.  I also have some inquiries in for a used pump.  

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

162047206348

On Jan 23, 2018, at 3:06 PM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James

Thanks for assistance
 I do not remember the way the gear is fixed but will try to see from pictures taken.
The non-marine version -perkins made, not the kubota look alike - has the same oil pump.
Fair wind
Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique



Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 15:33, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Christian Alby,


   I have been keeping my eye out for a replacement pump for you but so far no luck.  I think that you are correct that the worn pump is at least part of what is causing the lower than normal oil pressure.  The sudden drop of oil pressure to 0 when you reach 2000 RPM is very strange and I have been pondering a possible cause.  It makes me think that somehow the pump gear has sopped stopped turning.    Did you notice if any of the gears on your oil pump are pinned to the shaft?  I have seen some oil pumps secured with pins but am not sure about the Perkins 4.154, hence this is just an educated guess.  If one of these pins were to shear from the engine runaway and lack of lubrication which you said occurred when the engine failed,  you might still have enough friction present to drive the pump gear at low engine speeds but it could then begin to slip.  Replacement of that pin (if it exists) might solve the problem with the sudden loss of oil pressure.   Please let me know if you someday figure out what is the actual cause of this sudden loss of oil pressure.   I will post here if I am able to find another pump.   Can you tell me from your research if the non-marine version of the 4-154 has the same oil pump as your engine?

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 23, 2018, at 8:15 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Miles,

The  voice of Volvo D2/55 la 3 fold 
Available immediatly in Martinique.
Do not want a turbo on my marine engine, useless & more prone to failures.
Recent model , widely spread, will find parts for a while.

Against volvo
Tied up with agents for service & parts.
Price ...

I still might give up on replacement here in martinique & keep on looking for an oil pump to do repairs, then sail to better deal location.

Note : old faithful M 4.154 is still reliable & so easy to run & maintain. Regrets 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique.






Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 8:37, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Hi there Christian

As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives. 

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes 

Miles


On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump .... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?