On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 04:47 AM, simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Miles, thanks for this. However I am fortunate not to be one of the major or total loss incidents. We had a surge from a nearby lightning strike. We were not hit but lost a lot of electronics from the surge. The insurers turned themselves inside out to make life as difficult as possible for us. In the end we got everything replaced with new equipment the same as we had. All good but cost us a lot. It was several years ago and all systems have worked fine ever since. I have talked it over with our new broker
Regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 17 Feb 2018 11:38, "'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Danny,

 

I have been following your sad story and I feel very badly for you.  It is of no value to you, but, on behalf of others,  I want to put in some comments following Eric’s post about Pantaenius insurance.  I had Pantaenius for 8 years in Europe after 6 months with Lloyds.  Pantaenius was about one-third the cost for better coverage.  I didn’t have any claims, but a friend had his boat almost destroyed on the hard by a hurricane in Granada.  He said that Pantaenius adjusters were the first on the scene.  His boat had a repair estimate (shipping back to France) about the same as the agreed value.  He chose to repair and still has the boat.   Pantaenius  Europe does not insure American owned boats in US waters (they don’t like trial lawyers) so I had to give it up when I came back. 

Now, Pantaenius has a US company affiliate (subsidiary?) and I again have their insurance.  I have an agreed upon value policy that appears to be exactly what they say it is.  There is no fine print.  We agreed upon the value after I had an appraiser go over my boat and list all of the things that I had added or replaced and the condition and we estimated a market value that Pantaenius accepted without question.   I did have a major claim a year ago after something big ran into my boat when it was on a mooring in Newport RI.  Pantaenius took care of their part without  difficulty for me and without any argument.  

 

Regards,

 

Miles  s/y Ladybug, sm216 in Port du Marin, Martinique

On Feb 18, 2018, at 9:17 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Craig,

Scott was very diplomatic in the conversation. 

I'll try to summarize as best as possible.

Pantaenious does not specifically address the issue of solo sailing. That said, all insurance coverages expect that the vessel covered has all necessary equipment aboard for a safe passage, and during passage, posts persons for regular watches.

The issue is what happens IF an incident occurs? Will Pantaenious walk away if the vessel was piloted solo? 

Marine law is very different then "terrestrial law." I know first hand. I lost F/V Elizabeth J when she was T-boned while scalloping in deep fog south of LI by a 52' Sportfisherman traveling at 25kts. The Sporty never even slowed down. Sounds pretty cut and dry right? Guess again.

So, back to the question.

An incident occurs while solo sailing, and damages, and/or injuries are involved, Pantaenious has never walked away from protective coverage due to the vessel being piloted solo.

Now, does that mean they won't do it in the future? Read the last sentence.

Now, if a person is sailing solo and is unfamiliar with the offshore experience, in unfamiliar territory, as compared with a seasoned offshore person, there are obviously different circumstances involved with every incident.

Now, go back to the statement......Pantaenious has never walked away from coverage in an incident due to solo sailing. 

Does this mean that they cover a person who is solo sailing? 

My take was/is this. Sail at your own risk. Solo only if you MUST. I spend a lot of time offshore between F/V Alisha J and S/V Spirit. I'll solo Spirit when I have no alternative. I felt/feel comfortable that Pantaenious would provide legal coverage if an incident occurred. If a person wasn't comfortable offshore alone, I wouldn't encourage them to solo any vessel for a passage other then one of short duration, ie, a daysail.

But, and this is important, Pantaenious doesn't, and won't, imply coverage will be there. 

I hope this is helpful Craig.

Best Regards to all,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 08:34 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Jeff,

You left us "hanging" - what did Scott Stusek say about you being covered single handed?

I, too, have Pantaenius (America) and they are great (albeit, no claims). One nuance for anyone who may transport their boat is that the policy is totally clear that it does not cover that and you'll need separate insurance during the transport. The transport company made a point of that also and offered an "all-risk" policy for $300.  What they don't tell you is that when your boat is being transported it is considered "marine cargo", not a "yacht", and if there is damage you will only get the depreciated value (plus installation cost). Caveat emptor.

Cheers, Craig 

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Good Morning Amelians,

Just a note on insurance from my perspective.

After arriving back in Puerto Real, Puerto Rico after sailing my escape before Maria's arrival, there were a great number of destroyed boats. I spent days with my dinghy helping salvage equipment and personal items with various boat owners.

My Norwegian friend had his S/V Strega holed and awash on the beach. We spent days and countless trips back and forth removing everything aboard. They managed to refloat her, and bring her back to the marina. 

Using my sat phone email connection (ocens software) he made contact with Pantaneous (Europe). They had a group of adjusters in Puerto Rico within weeks (I think it was 2 weeks), and he was one of the first to be contacted. His boat was valued at 60K. He received a check for 64K. They paid him 4K extra for the salvage of the boat. He is allowed to keep the boat as it was declared a wreck. You should see the pictures of it awash. An owners worst nightmare. He had the boat hole reepaired and gel coated the repair. His intention is to keep it. I will join him aboard for a Regatta within a couple months, and Strega is currently sailing.

I also had a lengthy discussion with Scott Stusek of Pantaenious America (they cover Spirit). He explained a number of issues I had clearly and without beating around the bush. Our discussion regarding solo sailing was quite enlightening. I had done a 80 hr solo trip to avoid Maria, and wanted to know the stand Pantaenious would have taken in the event of a collision or other event aboard during that trip.

I feel very comfortable with Pantaenious coverage.

Best Regards to All!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

Jeff Spirit A

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 04:47 AM, simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Miles, thanks for this. However I am fortunate not to be one of the major or total loss incidents. We had a surge from a nearby lightning strike. We were not hit but lost a lot of electronics from the surge. The insurers turned themselves inside out to make life as difficult as possible for us. In the end we got everything replaced with new equipment the same as we had. All good but cost us a lot. It was several years ago and all systems have worked fine ever since. I have talked it over with our new broker
Regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 17 Feb 2018 11:38, "'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Danny,

 

I have been following your sad story and I feel very badly for you.  It is of no value to you, but, on behalf of others,  I want to put in some comments following Eric’s post about Pantaenius insurance.  I had Pantaenius for 8 years in Europe after 6 months with Lloyds.  Pantaenius was about one-third the cost for better coverage.  I didn’t have any claims, but a friend had his boat almost destroyed on the hard by a hurricane in Granada.  He said that Pantaenius adjusters were the first on the scene.  His boat had a repair estimate (shipping back to France) about the same as the agreed value.  He chose to repair and still has the boat.   Pantaenius  Europe does not insure American owned boats in US waters (they don’t like trial lawyers) so I had to give it up when I came back. 

Now, Pantaenius has a US company affiliate (subsidiary?) and I again have their insurance.  I have an agreed upon value policy that appears to be exactly what they say it is.  There is no fine print.  We agreed upon the value after I had an appraiser go over my boat and list all of the things that I had added or replaced and the condition and we estimated a market value that Pantaenius accepted without question.   I did have a major claim a year ago after something big ran into my boat when it was on a mooring in Newport RI.  Pantaenius took care of their part without  difficulty for me and without any argument.  

 

Regards,

 

Miles  s/y Ladybug, sm216 in Port du Marin, Martinique

On Feb 18, 2018, at 9:17 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Craig,

Scott was very diplomatic in the conversation. 

I'll try to summarize as best as possible.

Pantaenious does not specifically address the issue of solo sailing. That said, all insurance coverages expect that the vessel covered has all necessary equipment aboard for a safe passage, and during passage, posts persons for regular watches.

The issue is what happens IF an incident occurs? Will Pantaenious walk away if the vessel was piloted solo? 

Marine law is very different then "terrestrial law." I know first hand. I lost F/V Elizabeth J when she was T-boned while scalloping in deep fog south of LI by a 52' Sportfisherman traveling at 25kts. The Sporty never even slowed down. Sounds pretty cut and dry right? Guess again.

So, back to the question.

An incident occurs while solo sailing, and damages, and/or injuries are involved, Pantaenious has never walked away from protective coverage due to the vessel being piloted solo.

Now, does that mean they won't do it in the future? Read the last sentence.

Now, if a person is sailing solo and is unfamiliar with the offshore experience, in unfamiliar territory, as compared with a seasoned offshore person, there are obviously different circumstances involved with every incident.

Now, go back to the statement.......Pantaenious has never walked away from coverage in an incident due to solo sailing. 

Does this mean that they cover a person who is solo sailing? 

My take was/is this. Sail at your own risk. Solo only if you MUST. I spend a lot of time offshore between F/V Alisha J and S/V Spirit. I'll solo Spirit when I have no alternative. I felt/feel comfortable that Pantaenious would provide legal coverage if an incident occurred. If a person wasn't comfortable offshore alone, I wouldn't encourage them to solo any vessel for a passage other then one of short duration, ie, a daysail.

But, and this is important, Pantaenious doesn't, and won't, imply coverage will be there. 

I hope this is helpful Craig.

Best Regards to all,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 08:34 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Jeff,

You left us "hanging" - what did Scott Stusek say about you being covered single handed?

I, too, have Pantaenius (America) and they are great (albeit, no claims). One nuance for anyone who may transport their boat is that the policy is totally clear that it does not cover that and you'll need separate insurance during the transport. The transport company made a point of that also and offered an "all-risk" policy for $300.  What they don't tell you is that when your boat is being transported it is considered "marine cargo", not a "yacht", and if there is damage you will only get the depreciated value (plus installation cost). Caveat emptor.

Cheers, Craig 

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Good Morning Amelians,

Just a note on insurance from my perspective.

After arriving back in Puerto Real, Puerto Rico after sailing my escape before Maria's arrival, there were a great number of destroyed boats. I spent days with my dinghy helping salvage equipment and personal items with various boat owners.

My Norwegian friend had his S/V Strega holed and awash on the beach. We spent days and countless trips back and forth removing everything aboard. They managed to refloat her, and bring her back to the marina. 

Using my sat phone email connection (ocens software) he made contact with Pantaneous (Europe). They had a group of adjusters in Puerto Rico within weeks (I think it was 2 weeks), and he was one of the first to be contacted. His boat was valued at 60K. He received a check for 64K. They paid him 4K extra for the salvage of the boat. He is allowed to keep the boat as it was declared a wreck. You should see the pictures of it awash. An owners worst nightmare. He had the boat hole reepaired and gel coated the repair. His intention is to keep it. I will join him aboard for a Regatta within a couple months, and Strega is currently sailing.

I also had a lengthy discussion with Scott Stusek of Pantaenious America (they cover Spirit). He explained a number of issues I had clearly and without beating around the bush. Our discussion regarding solo sailing was quite enlightening. I had done a 80 hr solo trip to avoid Maria, and wanted to know the stand Pantaenious would have taken in the event of a collision or other event aboard during that trip.

I feel very comfortable with Pantaenious coverage..

Best Regards to All!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14

Jeff Spirit A

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 04:47 AM, simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Miles, thanks for this. However I am fortunate not to be one of the major or total loss incidents. We had a surge from a nearby lightning strike.. We were not hit but lost a lot of electronics from the surge. The insurers turned themselves inside out to make life as difficult as possible for us.. In the end we got everything replaced with new equipment the same as we had. All good but cost us a lot. It was several years ago and all systems have worked fine ever since. I have talked it over with our new broker
Regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 17 Feb 2018 11:38, "'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Danny,

 

I have been following your sad story and I feel very badly for you.  It is of no value to you, but, on behalf of others,  I want to put in some comments following Eric’s post about Pantaenius insurance.  I had Pantaenius for 8 years in Europe after 6 months with Lloyds.  Pantaenius was about one-third the cost for better coverage.  I didn’t have any claims, but a friend had his boat almost destroyed on the hard by a hurricane in Granada.  He said that Pantaenius adjusters were the first on the scene.  His boat had a repair estimate (shipping back to France) about the same as the agreed value.  He chose to repair and still has the boat.   Pantaenius  Europe does not insure American owned boats in US waters (they don’t like trial lawyers) so I had to give it up when I came back. 

Now, Pantaenius has a US company affiliate (subsidiary?) and I again have their insurance.  I have an agreed upon value policy that appears to be exactly what they say it is.  There is no fine print.  We agreed upon the value after I had an appraiser go over my boat and list all of the things that I had added or replaced and the condition and we estimated a market value that Pantaenius accepted without question.   I did have a major claim a year ago after something big ran into my boat when it was on a mooring in Newport RI.  Pantaenius took care of their part without  difficulty for me and without any argument.  

 

Regards,

 

Miles  s/y Ladybug, sm216 in Port du Marin, Martinique

 

Porter,

Insurance is something that changes like the wind.

You might try Velos Insurance UK. 

UK Tel: + 44 20 7929 4058

Insurance"at"velosgroup.co.uk

They'll be good for you, except not in US waters. They will allow US territorial waters of the Caribbean, and cover you most everywhere except the US.

Ask for Chris Bassett and tell him that Bill Rouse Ex-BeBe referred you.

I have sent you some more information directly.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970