[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: How much anchor chain?


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

I agree Alan

Danny

On 23 March 2018 at 16:28 "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We had 70m of 10mm when we bought Elyse, which wasn't enough.

We replaced it with 100m of 10mm ISO Maggi Aqua 4 chain in 2014.
Crusing in the Pacific that is only just enough.
When I replace it again, I will get 125m, there'a plenty of space in our anchor locker.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


 


smiles bernard
 

thanks very much for the swift responses to this question 
I agree 100m chain would be my preference.....
I reread Beth Leonaids Blue Water Cruising last night - the section on anchoring
Their 40ft suffered badly from too much chain in the bow so they stowed a 2nd section of chain in the mid bilges and used a chain connector (one of the ones you rivet together) in the Pacific
I worry about the chain connector as a weak point but it would mean i could keep the existing chain i have ( good condition ) 

The main thing i want is to sleep easy and have minimum hassle when anchoring - rode is a pain tbh ! ;)

I suppose i could change the windlass gypsy and go 100m of smaller 10mm chain 

instead of the current 50ish meters of 12mm plus rode
 

Food for thought and very helpful input

many thanks again

Miles




On Friday, March 23, 2018, 8:06:20 AM GMT, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

I agree Alan

Danny

On 23 March 2018 at 16:28 "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 

We had 70m of 10mm when we bought Elyse, which wasn't enough.

We replaced it with 100m of 10mm ISO Maggi Aqua 4 chain in 2014.
Crusing in the Pacific that is only just enough.
When I replace it again, I will get 125m, there'a plenty of space in our anchor locker.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


 


greatketch@...
 

Look here for great information on C-links to connect two lengths of chain. (but look quick!  His web hosting expires soon!)


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas


smiles bernard
 

Thanks Bill 
good info there

All the best
Miles

On Friday, March 23, 2018, 2:45:42 PM GMT, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Look here for great information on C-links to connect two lengths of chain. (but look quick!  His web hosting expires soon!)



Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Miles,

the 10mm chain is perfectly adequate for the SM so that would be your best choice. I wouldn't like to rely on a joining link, especially not one put on every now and then,

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 24 March 2018 at 00:37 "'smilesbernard@...' smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 
thanks very much for the swift responses to this question 
I agree 100m chain would be my preference.....
I reread Beth Leonaids Blue Water Cruising last night - the section on anchoring
Their 40ft suffered badly from too much chain in the bow so they stowed a 2nd section of chain in the mid bilges and used a chain connector (one of the ones you rivet together) in the Pacific
I worry about the chain connector as a weak point but it would mean i could keep the existing chain i have ( good condition ) 

The main thing i want is to sleep easy and have minimum hassle when anchoring - rode is a pain tbh ! ;)

I suppose i could change the windlass gypsy and go 100m of smaller 10mm chain 

instead of the current 50ish meters of 12mm plus rode
 

Food for thought and very helpful input

many thanks again

Miles




On Friday, March 23, 2018, 8:06:20 AM GMT, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

 

I agree Alan

Danny

On 23 March 2018 at 16:28 "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We had 70m of 10mm when we bought Elyse, which wasn't enough.

We replaced it with 100m of 10mm ISO Maggi Aqua 4 chain in 2014.
Crusing in the Pacific that is only just enough.
When I replace it again, I will get 125m, there'a plenty of space in our anchor locker.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


 

 
 

 


 


Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

We are currently in the Maldives and on the very first day we dropped anchor here we were forced to anchor in 42m water waiting 4 hrs for customs. This was double the depth of anywhere we anchored over the past year cruising Australia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand!

Thinking all Amel SM's came with 100m chain (instead of 80m) unfortunately stupidly without first measuring it, I cut off 15m chain to leave on our spare anchor (the lovely Stainless CQR that came with this boat from Amel) we now only have 65 m 10mm chain, and getting our 30m rode joined on is a real pain due to the small opening into the chain locker. This has turned out to be the biggest mistake I have yet made with this boat!

Finding anchorages under 20m here in Maldives has been a real challenge. There are no cruising guides yet, just positions from previous cruisers blogs, and two very outdated guides from 1998 and 2005 which have yet to find us an single acceptable anchorage. This has meant pushing the boundaries in crossing un-chartered reef passes almost every single afternoon, to enter lagoons hunting for an anchorage shallow enough. Fortunately we have an aluminium dinghy with a depth sounder fitted, and I send that ahead most afternoons to check depths of reefs before crossing them, but with sufficient chain this would often not be required.

With the balance of the Indian Ocean crossing, South Atlantic, and then the Pacific still in front of us, where there are probably plenty issues finding shallow anchorages, first chance I get we will be moving to new 10mm 120m chain! 

Hope nobody repeats my mistake!

Colin
Amel54 #332



On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 3:24 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Miles,

the 10mm chain is perfectly adequate for the SM so that would be your best choice. I wouldn't like to rely on a joining link, especially not one put on every now and then,

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 24 March 2018 at 00:37 "'smilesbernard@...' smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

 
thanks very much for the swift responses to this question 
I agree 100m chain would be my preference.....
I reread Beth Leonaids Blue Water Cruising last night - the section on anchoring
Their 40ft suffered badly from too much chain in the bow so they stowed a 2nd section of chain in the mid bilges and used a chain connector (one of the ones you rivet together) in the Pacific
I worry about the chain connector as a weak point but it would mean i could keep the existing chain i have ( good condition ) 

The main thing i want is to sleep easy and have minimum hassle when anchoring - rode is a pain tbh ! ;)

I suppose i could change the windlass gypsy and go 100m of smaller 10mm chain 

instead of the current 50ish meters of 12mm plus rode
 

Food for thought and very helpful input

many thanks again

Miles




On Friday, March 23, 2018, 8:06:20 AM GMT, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

 

I agree Alan

Danny

On 23 March 2018 at 16:28 "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

We had 70m of 10mm when we bought Elyse, which wasn't enough.

We replaced it with 100m of 10mm ISO Maggi Aqua 4 chain in 2014.
Crusing in the Pacific that is only just enough.
When I replace it again, I will get 125m, there'a plenty of space in our anchor locker.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


 

 
 

 


 




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Colin,

For what it is worth from a SM owner that has been there/done that:

You didn't find the tiny shallow (16 meters) spot at the Male Customs/Immigration lat/lon? There is a little bump in the bottom very close to the lat/lon they publish. However, only 1 or 2 boats can anchor on this tiny spot.

I think 120 of chain is overkill and overweight on your bow. 100 will work, and remember required scope decreases as depth increases. If you still want 120 meters, splice 20 meters of anchor rode to your 100 chain.

I was happy to hear that Amel is making you a new bow thruster. I think all SMs worldwide increased slightly in value with that news.
​ 
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Sailing Island Pearl colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

We are currently in the Maldives and on the very first day we dropped anchor here we were forced to anchor in 42m water waiting 4 hrs for customs. This was double the depth of anywhere we anchored over the past year cruising Australia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand!

Thinking all Amel SM's came with 100m chain (instead of 80m) unfortunately stupidly without first measuring it, I cut off 15m chain to leave on our spare anchor (the lovely Stainless CQR that came with this boat from Amel) we now only have 65 m 10mm chain, and getting our 30m rode joined on is a real pain due to the small opening into the chain locker. This has turned out to be the biggest mistake I have yet made with this boat!

Finding anchorages under 20m here in Maldives has been a real challenge. There are no cruising guides yet, just positions from previous cruisers blogs, and two very outdated guides from 1998 and 2005 which have yet to find us an single acceptable anchorage. This has meant pushing the boundaries in crossing un-chartered reef passes almost every single afternoon, to enter lagoons hunting for an anchorage shallow enough. Fortunately we have an aluminium dinghy with a depth sounder fitted, and I send that ahead most afternoons to check depths of reefs before crossing them, but with sufficient chain this would often not be required.

With the balance of the Indian Ocean crossing, South Atlantic, and then the Pacific still in front of us, where there are probably plenty issues finding shallow anchorages, first chance I get we will be moving to new 10mm 120m chain! 

Hope nobody repeats my mistake!

Colin
Amel54 #332



On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 3:24 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Miles,

the 10mm chain is perfectly adequate for the SM so that would be your best choice. I wouldn't like to rely on a joining link, especially not one put on every now and then,

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 24 March 2018 at 00:37 "'smilesbernard@...' smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

 

 
thanks very much for the swift responses to this question 
I agree 100m chain would be my preference.....
I reread Beth Leonaids Blue Water Cruising last night - the section on anchoring
Their 40ft suffered badly from too much chain in the bow so they stowed a 2nd section of chain in the mid bilges and used a chain connector (one of the ones you rivet together) in the Pacific
I worry about the chain connector as a weak point but it would mean i could keep the existing chain i have ( good condition ) 

The main thing i want is to sleep easy and have minimum hassle when anchoring - rode is a pain tbh ! ;)

I suppose i could change the windlass gypsy and go 100m of smaller 10mm chain 

instead of the current 50ish meters of 12mm plus rode
 

Food for thought and very helpful input

many thanks again

Miles




On Friday, March 23, 2018, 8:06:20 AM GMT, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:


 

 

I agree Alan

Danny

On 23 March 2018 at 16:28 "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

We had 70m of 10mm when we bought Elyse, which wasn't enough.

We replaced it with 100m of 10mm ISO Maggi Aqua 4 chain in 2014.
Crusing in the Pacific that is only just enough.
When I replace it again, I will get 125m, there'a plenty of space in our anchor locker.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


 

 
 

 


 




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--


Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Bill

Yes, we had pre-marked that spot on our plotter the night before entering but customs would not have any of that. We were instructed to go to a specific location on the other side and then had to hunt around for 45mins in 50m+ to find a little spot with 42m.

Thanks for the tip about the chain, and yes, Amel are super friendly and helpful. The factory is extremely busy this month with the new 50's, and they have pushed our job in, plus been totally reasonable with the price. Being a management consultant myself, this is the sign of an amazing company, I mean being prepared to drop things and help the 2nd owner of a 16 year old boat!

A lot of corporations could learn a thing or two from this company who's brand is "GOLD" right now. That was not an accident, and yes, of course the guys on Delos have helped quite a bit too.

Best regards to you and Judy.

Colin
Amel 53 #332


On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 5:27 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Colin,

For what it is worth from a SM owner that has been there/done that:

You didn't find the tiny shallow (16 meters) spot at the Male Customs/Immigration lat/lon? There is a little bump in the bottom very close to the lat/lon they publish. However, only 1 or 2 boats can anchor on this tiny spot.

I think 120 of chain is overkill and overweight on your bow. 100 will work, and remember required scope decreases as depth increases. If you still want 120 meters, splice 20 meters of anchor rode to your 100 chain.

I was happy to hear that Amel is making you a new bow thruster. I think all SMs worldwide increased slightly in value with that news.
​ 
Best,


On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Sailing Island Pearl colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

We are currently in the Maldives and on the very first day we dropped anchor here we were forced to anchor in 42m water waiting 4 hrs for customs. This was double the depth of anywhere we anchored over the past year cruising Australia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand!

Thinking all Amel SM's came with 100m chain (instead of 80m) unfortunately stupidly without first measuring it, I cut off 15m chain to leave on our spare anchor (the lovely Stainless CQR that came with this boat from Amel) we now only have 65 m 10mm chain, and getting our 30m rode joined on is a real pain due to the small opening into the chain locker. This has turned out to be the biggest mistake I have yet made with this boat!

Finding anchorages under 20m here in Maldives has been a real challenge. There are no cruising guides yet, just positions from previous cruisers blogs, and two very outdated guides from 1998 and 2005 which have yet to find us an single acceptable anchorage. This has meant pushing the boundaries in crossing un-chartered reef passes almost every single afternoon, to enter lagoons hunting for an anchorage shallow enough. Fortunately we have an aluminium dinghy with a depth sounder fitted, and I send that ahead most afternoons to check depths of reefs before crossing them, but with sufficient chain this would often not be required.

With the balance of the Indian Ocean crossing, South Atlantic, and then the Pacific still in front of us, where there are probably plenty issues finding shallow anchorages, first chance I get we will be moving to new 10mm 120m chain! 

Hope nobody repeats my mistake!

Colin
Amel54 #332



On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 3:24 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Miles,

the 10mm chain is perfectly adequate for the SM so that would be your best choice. I wouldn't like to rely on a joining link, especially not one put on every now and then,

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 24 March 2018 at 00:37 "'smilesbernard@...' smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

 

 
thanks very much for the swift responses to this question 
I agree 100m chain would be my preference.....
I reread Beth Leonaids Blue Water Cruising last night - the section on anchoring
Their 40ft suffered badly from too much chain in the bow so they stowed a 2nd section of chain in the mid bilges and used a chain connector (one of the ones you rivet together) in the Pacific
I worry about the chain connector as a weak point but it would mean i could keep the existing chain i have ( good condition ) 

The main thing i want is to sleep easy and have minimum hassle when anchoring - rode is a pain tbh ! ;)

I suppose i could change the windlass gypsy and go 100m of smaller 10mm chain 

instead of the current 50ish meters of 12mm plus rode
 

Food for thought and very helpful input

many thanks again

Miles




On Friday, March 23, 2018, 8:06:20 AM GMT, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:


 

 

I agree Alan

Danny

On 23 March 2018 at 16:28 "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

We had 70m of 10mm when we bought Elyse, which wasn't enough.

We replaced it with 100m of 10mm ISO Maggi Aqua 4 chain in 2014.
Crusing in the Pacific that is only just enough.
When I replace it again, I will get 125m, there'a plenty of space in our anchor locker.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


 

 
 

 


 




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Alan Leslie
 

Agree
Would NEVER use a joining link in anchor chain.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


greatketch@...
 

As a default, it is a perfectly rational and safe assumption to never use a connecting link. You will never have a failure because of that decision.  But properly sourced and assembled they are safe and useful.

One of the interesting things you learn hanging out in yards around really big boats is that in larger sizes, chain comes in "shots".  One "shot" of chain is 15 fathoms, or 90 feet.  On large yachts and ships, anchor chains are all assembled from "shot" lengths using riveted "c-links" to connect them.

Properly made, drop-forged, heat treated, c-links should be as strong as the chain itself.  The issue is:  how do you know you have a properly made one and not some brittle cast steel POS from an anonymous Chinese steel mill? 

With any "mission critical" shackle or other such metal part, I have always tried to source through an industrial supplier who specializes in such things. That means NOT West Marine, who seems to buy from whoever is cheapest that week.  I have a love/hate relationship with WM.  This is one of those areas I go somewhere else.

Good suppliers who sell parts that are used to lift heavy loads over people's heads tend to be REALLY careful about where their parts come from. They know they are one lawsuit from being out of business. They always have documentation all the way back to the original mill heat that made the steel. And you will pay for that care!

A downside about even the best such connectors is they tend to have very thin galvanizing, and need to be inspected and replaced on a schedule because they rust much faster than the chain they are holding together, especially the rivets that were peened to hold everything together.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...
 

I have an Amel 54 (Amelia #019 2006) she is my third boat and my largest.  I have concerns that 10mm chain is not strong enough, for such a large vessel. She has very rusty 10mm chain. Unknown grade, but presumably supplied by Amel from new.

Does anyone know what grade 10mm chain Amel supplied 

My last boat was 46 ft and 10T, a Bowman 46. I cruised her extensively and used 10mm Aqua 4 chain. Never felt like it would break.

My previous boat to that was a 35 ft Gaff cutter (Faith of Norfolk) Also 10T that I circumnavigated and used 10mm chain. I am not sure what grade it was. I also felt than the chain was super strong.

The sheer size and windage of Amelia suggests to me that she needs 12mm chain not 10mm.  Not to mention the massive bow rollers and well built bow structure and anchoring system sporting what to my eye looks like puny chain!

However looking at the (aquachain.it) Maggi chain web site I find that if I use Aqua 7 10mm grade chain then I will have a breaking strain that is more than the 12mm  grade 4.

The drawbacks are price and re-galvanising. Apparently re-galvanising grade 7 may weaken it slightly though not by very much.

Any thoughts out there?

Nick


James Alton
 

Nick,

   I hope that you are also enjoying the transition from a yawl to a ketch.  (grin)  

   If you search on grade 70 chain in the Amel Groups you will find a lot if information on this subject.  I seem to recall that JPG who owns the SM 007 is using 5/16” (8 MM) grade 70 on his 53’ SM.  It would be best to get this information direct from the source if possible.  Given that Amel originally installed 10 mm on your boat I would have to think that it is adequate.  You could make an inquiry to see what grade they used originally.


Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Mar 24, 2018, at 3:32 AM, kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I have an Amel 54 (Amelia #019 2006) she is my third boat and my largest.  I have concerns that 10mm chain is not strong enough, for such a large vessel. She has very rusty 10mm chain. Unknown grade, but presumably supplied by Amel from new.


Does anyone know what grade 10mm chain Amel supplied 

My last boat was 46 ft and 10T, a Bowman 46. I cruised her extensively and used 10mm Aqua 4 chain. Never felt like it would break.

My previous boat to that was a 35 ft Gaff cutter (Faith of Norfolk) Also 10T that I circumnavigated and used 10mm chain. I am not sure what grade it was. I also felt than the chain was super strong.

The sheer size and windage of Amelia suggests to me that she needs 12mm chain not 10mm.  Not to mention the massive bow rollers and well built bow structure and anchoring system sporting what to my eye looks like puny chain!

However looking at the (aquachain.it) Maggi chain web site I find that if I use Aqua 7 10mm grade chain then I will have a breaking strain that is more than the 12mm  grade 4.

The drawbacks are price and re-galvanising. Apparently re-galvanising grade 7 may weaken it slightly though not by very much.

Any thoughts out there?

Nick