[Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator


Mark Erdos
 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock.

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock.

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Paul,

Our feedback on our Watt&Sea hydrogenerators (with 900W of solar):

1. Needs an appropriate mounting bracket for A54 and probably other amel sterns. Needs to be strong, other users have reported broken/bent brackets (see point 4 below).

2. On the 600W model with standard prop, we found the output to be roughly 0.xA@5kn- , 4A@6kn, 7.5A@7kn, 12A@8kn (24V). 
So needs to go fast to be efficient. There are bigger props for better output at lower speeds. 

3. The drag is probably more than advertised, we think a quarter of a knot. 

4. In the Atlantic crossing to tue Caribbean, Sargasso are omnipresent in the second part. Too much of a pain to clear them from the props every 15mins, so a bit useless there...

5. Needs a bit more electronics than standard, with a relay to short the hydrogen when not needed (say battery full, or motoring in a calm, or reducing the drag when going too slow or simply managing the various energy sources onboard) as it's a bit of a mission to raise it (think night, middle of the ocean, shorthanded crew, big swell, etc...).

6. Only useful when running (fast). Obvious, but we don't run that often for long periods. Our cutoff is propably 36hr+ passage. Otherwise the alternator produces enough during periods of motoring and we can recover the rest during the following sunny days with solar. Plus we use the generator full on at least once a week for 3hrs to keep it and the 220V consumers on their toes. 

7. The retaining pin is a bit of a joke. Stupid,  but it slides out halfway and bents or breaks after a while. Without it, the blocker on the lowering system is not enough to maintain the hydro down. The pin needs a simple retainer like at the end of the spinaker pole. 


In short we loved hydrogeneration in the first part of the Atlantic crossing where it produced more energy than we could consume. Won't be very useful until we leave the Caribbean. To be considered when making the investment. 


Hope that helps

Thomas
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 08:53, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14




On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock.

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock.

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 

 

 

 

 


 


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jeff,

Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock..

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 


 


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jeff,

the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all. 

For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl



On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 


Will do.
I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. 
I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?
I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.
I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..
Thanks for answering my questions.
Best Regards,
Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Jeff,

Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock..

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 


 

 

 


 


JEFFREY KRAUS
 


SV Perigee
 

Greetings all.

And thanks for the discussion on these topics.

Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.

I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen.  I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there.  This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.

I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400.  Roughly the same power output curve.  Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.

An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources.  Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.

Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.

The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there. 

One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.

Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.

David
Perigee SM#396
St Maarten


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Thanks Danny.
Greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Hi Jeff,
the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all. 
For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 
 

Will do.
I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. 
I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?
I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.
I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..
Thanks for answering my questions.
Best Regards,
Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff,
Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 
 
Danny,
It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail
Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.
Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.
Hope this helps
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 
 
Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely.. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 
 
Paul,
 
We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.
 
It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock..
 
When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.
 
On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.
 
Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Guadeloupe
www.creampuff.us
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator
 
 
We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.
I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.
Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?
 
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 



SV Perigee
 

Shaft-driven alternator
I have one of these units on Perigee, SM#396.
As a refinement of earlier set-ups described in earlier posts, according to the AMEL Owner's manual, this unit can be run at the same time as the engine, without any adverse effects.  This would be useful, for example, if the 24V alternator, or the external 'smart' regulator, becomes unserviceable.
To use this unit, one has the engine running in neutral, then selects reverse at idle.  This extends the blades (of the Bruton's Autoprop).  An electrical switch at the helm is then selected, which activates an electro-mechanical lock to prevent the shaft-brake from closing when the engine is shut-down.  This switch also energises the alternator.  The engine is then shut-down, but the shaft remains free to rotate.
The shaft drives a 40A/24V alternator via a geared pulley.  The unit starts producing useable power at about 6 knots STW - below this, the charge required to excite the alternator is greater than the current produced.  At about 7.5kt, we are almost covering routine loads (A/P, 3x fridges, LGTs, NAV STN + digital radar).  At 8kt and above, we are seeing a slow charging of the battery bank.
I see a drop in speed of about 0.5 to 1.0 knot, so do not normally run the unit if time/speed is a consideration, and also not normally below sustained 7kt STW.  Below this, the speed penalty, as a percentage of achievable speed, does not make it worthwhile.

The only downside is that one can hear the alternator whirring away.  I guess there could be an issue of lack of cooling water for the gearbox cooler (YANMAR not running = no raw-water pump); but I have seen it somewhere that the Hurth ZF box can, by design, accept up to 75hp (or thereabouts) without cooling.  I haven't run the numbers, but the 175A/24V high-output alternator take off about 5HP, so think that the shaft-driven alternator would be relatively insignificant in this regard. 
Another issue may be the life of wearing-out bearings, which should be replaced every 900 hours engine running-time.  But so far, we have not seen a problem, but it is early days yet.  I have not heard about any problems of this nature being experienced by other owners running their shaft generator, so do not count the hours being run by the shaft-driven alternator.

BTW, when we did our initial post-purchase round of repairs & maintenance, we did take the precaution of changing out the drive-belt for the shaft-driven alternator, the old belt now held in spares.  But there was no need seen/heard to overhaul the alternator bearings.  But one of these days.
DavidPerigee, SM#396St Maarten

On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 11:28, David Vogel <dbv_au@yahoo.com> wrote:


Greetings all.
And thanks for the discussion on these topics.

Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.

I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen.  I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there.  This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.

I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400.  Roughly the same power output curve.  Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.

An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources.  Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.
Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.

The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there. 

One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.
Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.
DavidPerigee SM#396St Maarten


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Thanks Danny.Greatly appreciated.Best Regards,Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  Hi Jeff,the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all.  For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.Kind RegardsDannySM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

   

Will do.I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..Thanks for answering my questions.Best Regards,Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  
Hi Jeff,Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.RegardsDanny
On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  
Danny,It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. I greatly appreciate your feedback.Best Regards,Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  
Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tailOur wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.Hope this helpsRegardsDanny. 
On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  
Danny,A couple questions if you don't mind.How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!Best Regards,Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  
Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely.. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after themRegardsDannyAM 299Ocean Pearl


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@gmail.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator
  
Paul, We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.  It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock.. When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.  On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds. Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.  With best regards, Mark SkipperSailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275Currently cruising - Guadeloupewww.creampuff.us From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator  We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice? Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259  
 
 

 


 

 

 


 

 

 


 


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Eric Freedman
 

Years ago I had a KISS wind generator on my last boat.

From an engineering standpoint it was elegant—it was so simple .

One of the good points of the generator was that it also sent AC down the wiring to a rectifier at the battery bank.

Using AC vs DC allows you to use a significantly smaller wire from the wind generator to the battery bank.



Just for my info , those of you that have a DC wind generator, what size wire did you run from the generator to the batteries?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376



From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 11:28 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator





Greetings all.



And thanks for the discussion on these topics.



Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.



I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen. I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there. This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.



I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400. Roughly the same power output curve. Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.



An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources. Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.



Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.



The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there.



One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.



Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.



David

Perigee SM#396

St Maarten



On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:





Thanks Danny.

Greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:



Hi Jeff,

the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all.

For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger <https://webmail.xtra.co.nz/appsuite/> at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl





On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:






Will do.

I'm surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things.

I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?

I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.

I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..

Thanks for answering my questions.

Best Regards,

Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:





Hi Jeff,

Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Danny,

It helps a lot.. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept.

I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.

What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?

What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?

A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.

When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment.

I greatly appreciate your feedback.

Best Regards,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:





Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking. Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

.

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Danny,

A couple questions if you don't mind.

How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels? 9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!

Best Regards,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14




On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] wrote:





Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen. mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.

I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely... A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.

Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them

Regards

Danny

AM 299

Ocean Pearl







Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------

From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@gmail.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator







Paul,



We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.



It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch.. This is also a big plus when at dock..



When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.



On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.



Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.





With best regards,



Mark



Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator





We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?



Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi David, You make me break out in a cold sweat.

If you are mounting a wind generator on top of the mizzen get one that can stay there in all conditions. Imagine you are at sea in building conditions and you get a forecast of wind strength beyond your generators ability. There is no way you will be going up there to get it down. There are many stories out there of wind generators disintegrating and losing blades in high winds. One I heard of recently a blade came off and speared through the deck. The Super Wind unit is one that can stay up there in all conditions for two reasons. The mechanically feathering blades and its very robust design and construction.It also has a stop switch that can be used if a hurricane comes through that exceeds 100 mph. A lot of others have blades that feather by flexing and require to be tethered to stop them in high winds. Not an option at the top of the mast.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 09 April 2018 at 03:28 "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Greetings all.

And thanks for the discussion on these topics.

Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.

I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen.  I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there.  This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.

I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400.  Roughly the same power output curve.  Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.

An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources.  Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.

Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.

The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there. 

One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.

Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.

David
Perigee SM#396
St Maarten
 


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:


 
 
Thanks Danny.
Greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff,
the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all. 
For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 

Will do.
I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. 
I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?
I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.
I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..
Thanks for answering my questions.
Best Regards,
Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff,
Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 
Danny,
It helps a lot.. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail
Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.
Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.
Hope this helps
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 
Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely... A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 
 
Paul,
 
We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.
 
It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch.. This is also a big plus when at dock..
 
When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.
 
On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.
 
Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Guadeloupe
www.creampuff.us
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator
 
 
We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.
I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.
Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?
 
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 


 


 


SV Perigee
 

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the concern, and dialogue.  Sorry about the cold-sweats.  I agree, needing to rotate the unit out-of-wind &/or to physically tether the blades due to an operating limitation/requirement, is not a viable option for anything mounted above, say, 2 meters.  That is not the case here.

I am not thinking on doing a mast-climb to lower the wind-turbine at sea or in adverse conditions.

What I am thinking is to lower the unit (or remove the blades) if hauling out, or leaving the boat, for an extended period in a high-wind-prone area/season.  Not just for the survivability of the unit itself, but because of the wind-loads such additions would place on the attachment points, mast, and boat as a whole. Just as one would for solar panels, or other removable deck-ware.  It may be that the insurance company requires the masts to be taken off if secured on-land in the hurricane belt in-season, in which case this aspect becomes moot.

As an aside, in addition to a manual switch that stops/slows the blades (by shorting out the coils), the Rutland 1200 starts to electronically self-limit at wind-speeds above 35 knots (or when charging current is no longer needed). To my mind this is better than simply letting the the blades spin to dump excess current to a resistive load (&/or trying to slow/stop a rotor already exposed to high winds).  I have heard of Rutland 1200 units successfully self-limiting and surviving hurricane-force winds.  On that basis, I reckon that the unit can stay up in all conditions I am likely to encounter at sea.  Of course, as we have seen with IRMA, nothing, not even the masts themselves, can necessarily survive a full-on Cat5 or, more properly, the debris that is often associated with such conditions.

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten


Eric Freedman
 

Hi David,

How high above the mast head does the wind gen have to be to clear the triadic stay?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 4:48 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the concern, and dialogue.  Sorry about the cold-sweats.  I agree, needing to rotate the unit out-of-wind &/or to physically tether the blades due to an operating limitation/requirement, is not a viable option for anything mounted above, say, 2 meters.  That is not the case here.

I am not thinking on doing a mast-climb to lower the wind-turbine at sea or in adverse conditions.

What I am thinking is to lower the unit (or remove the blades) if hauling out, or leaving the boat, for an extended period in a high-wind-prone area/season.  Not just for the survivability of the unit itself, but because of the wind-loads such additions would place on the attachment points, mast, and boat as a whole. Just as one would for solar panels, or other removable deck-ware.  It may be that the insurance company requires the masts to be taken off if secured on-land in the hurricane belt in-season, in which case this aspect becomes moot.

As an aside, in addition to a manual switch that stops/slows the blades (by shorting out the coils), the Rutland 1200 starts to electronically self-limit at wind-speeds above 35 knots (or when charging current is no longer needed). To my mind this is better than simply letting the the blades spin to dump excess current to a resistive load (&/or trying to slow/stop a rotor already exposed to high winds).  I have heard of Rutland 1200 units successfully self-limiting and surviving hurricane-force winds.  On that basis, I reckon that the unit can stay up in all conditions I am likely to encounter at sea.  Of course, as we have seen with IRMA, nothing, not even the masts themselves, can necessarily survive a full-on Cat5 or, more properly, the debris that is often associated with such conditions.

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten




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