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[Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

Jose, I really appreciate all of your participation in this Group. Thank you very much.

My following response is not intended to be an argument to you, but, it is intended to give those people in the Group who are "new-to-Amel" the reasons NOT to follow your advice. Remember there are a number of things that can go wrong with the installation of the wear bushing and seals. I am absolutely positive that changing the seal orientation from what Amel recommends was NOT the reason for your changing results.

Let's make this simple:
What is more important? Oil leaking out, or water leaking in? The answer to the question is obviously oil leaking out, and that is probably the reason Amel recommends a redundancy of seals (2 instead of 1 to hold oil in) to protect your 35,000 euro C-Drive from melt down because of no oil.

To not service a 35,000 euro C-Drive for 8 years (4 times the manufacturers recommended service interval) is not a RISK that I would take and is one that I do not recommend any of my clients taking. Afterall, you are going to haulout every 2 years anyway, why try to save a few hundred euro and risk 35,000 euro?

Let me share with you a summary of a page in my Amel School Book:

There are 7 very important things that, if not done precisely correct, will result in water seeping into the C Drive.

Some of the things that commonly cause water seepage are:
1.) Seals and/or wear bushings NOT purchased from Amel.
2.) The wall of the seal cavity NOT completely cleaned with emery cloth.
3.) The seals NOT oriented according to Amel specs.
4.) The seals NOT inserted the the correct depth.
5.) The seals NOT completely greased with waterproof grease
6.) The wear bushing O ring NOT greased and/or not the correct size
7.) The propeller shaft NOT completely cleaned where the wear bushing O ring meets the shaft.

Are you 100% positive that all of the above was performed correctly?


Amel has stuck with the same C Drive Bushing, seals and procedures for over 25 years and today recommends the same procedures in new 55s and 64s, which have the same wear bushing and seals. The only change Amel has recommended is the change to 80/90 gear oil. I know for a fact that Amel has experimented with several options and may be close to making a change to the wear bushing which may give it a longer life. But, I assume rather than busing wear with a harder bushing the seal will wear. This may be an insurmountable issue because with a very hard bushing good seals will eventually leak because they wear rather than the bushing.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I want to report my experience with the shaft seals and bushing.  

When I bought my SM2000 278,  It had its seal and bushing replaced and the seals oriented as recommended by AMEL.  In less than 2 seasons it was leaking water into the oil and I replaced it again in that spring finding substantial wear in the bushing, as you will see in the pix I have uploaded in face book.  After trying again the same scheme and less than two years later, as we were returning from Cartagena to Florida, just before reaching the windward passage between Cuba and Española, the transmission oil showed again the dreaded white color and I had to sail with no wind around the eastern tip of Cuba.   In Fort Lauderdale, I decided to experiment with the shaft seals direction based on my Mechanical Engineering background:  single lip seals are designed to prevent fluid from crossing the seal in only one direction; Fluid from the side facing the lip apply a pressure on the lip and it that prevents it from crossing to the other side.  Fluid coming from the other side can expand the lip and move across.  This motion of the fluid is helpful as it serves to lubricate the surface of contact between the seal and the shaft.
Based on this idea I realized that having the two inner seals facing in prevented oil leaving and to outer seal facing out prevented water coming in. As a result, none of the seals is lubricated and as the grease is worn out the outer seal will start leaking water in, which is not prevented to get into the transmission by the two inner seals.  The heavy wear and corrosion can be seen in the bushing surface of the outer seal.  So, even if the two inner seals are still viable they will not prevent water entry into the transmission.
My solution was to have the outer seal lip face into the transmission, preventing oil from leaving but allowing water to lubricate it.  Also, the two inner seals were oriented with the lip facing the shaft, preventing water from entering the transmission but allowing oil to move and lubricate them.
After 5 years of use, I noticed a small amount of oil loss ( < 2 cm drop in the tank) which I replaced with a heavier gear oil that completely stopped the oil loss. 
Last week I decided to replace the seals and bushings.  I noticed that the oil was perfectly clean and the two inner seals and corresponding bushing surfaces were intact but, as expected some wear was present in the outer bushing surface.  My guess is that with the heavier oil the outer lip began to work again, this time allowing a small amount of oil lubricating it.

Since after the outer lip function deteriorates the oil loss is very gradual and can be easily replaced with heavier oil, my recommendation is that the two inner seal lips should face the prop and the outer seal face the transmission.  Based on the wear pattern and total lack of wear in the inner seal I estimate that the seal/bushing system would have worked preventing water entrance into the transmission for another two or 3 years.  So my next experiment is to only replace the seals  8 years from now unless I begin to see a drop in oil level which is not fixed with heavier oil which I will report immediately.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2k 278




pjn.mccallin@...
 

I have to agree absolutely with Bill Rouse.
The drawings that were supplied by AMEL when I bought CARAMELLE new show quite clearly the two innermost lip seals with their stainless steel springs facing the oil, the third seal faces the propeller.

Interestingly enough AMEL also show an alternative of just two seals 45x65x12 rather than 45x65x8, this could perhaps prolong the life of the bearing as the wear groove will be in a different location. Just a thought.

Food for thought? Patrick #385.


Mark Erdos
 

Bill,

 

Well said. We have followed the guidelines posted by you and have never had an issue with any intrusion of water or leakage of oil. It is an easy process to follow. We have always purchased parts for this from Amel. As you say, to replace the drive would be costly. Why risk it.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Jose, I really appreciate all of your participation in this Group. Thank you very much.

 

My following response is not intended to be an argument to you, but, it is intended to give those people in the Group who are "new-to-Amel" the reasons NOT to follow your advice. Remember there are a number of things that can go wrong with the installation of the wear bushing and seals. I am absolutely positive that changing the seal orientation from what Amel recommends was NOT the reason for your changing results.

 

Let's make this simple:

What is more important? Oil leaking out, or water leaking in? The answer to the question is obviously oil leaking out, and that is probably the reason Amel recommends a redundancy of seals (2 instead of 1 to hold oil in) to protect your 35,000 euro C-Drive from melt down because of no oil.

 

To not service a 35,000 euro C-Drive for 8 years (4 times the manufacturers recommended service interval) is not a RISK that I would take and is one that I do not recommend any of my clients taking. Afterall, you are going to haulout every 2 years anyway, why try to save a few hundred euro and risk 35,000 euro?

 

Let me share with you a summary of a page in my Amel School Book:

 

There are 7 very important things that, if not done precisely correct, will result in water seeping into the C Drive.

 

Some of the things that commonly cause water seepage are:

1.) Seals and/or wear bushings NOT purchased from Amel.

2.) The wall of the seal cavity NOT completely cleaned with emery cloth.

3.) The seals NOT oriented according to Amel specs.

4..) The seals NOT inserted the the correct depth.

5.) The seals NOT completely greased with waterproof grease

6.) The wear bushing O ring NOT greased and/or not the correct size

7.) The propeller shaft NOT completely cleaned where the wear bushing O ring meets the shaft.

 

Are you 100% positive that all of the above was performed correctly?

Amel has stuck with the same C Drive Bushing, seals and procedures for over 25 years and today recommends the same procedures in new 55s and 64s, which have the same wear bushing and seals. The only change Amel has recommended is the change to 80/90 gear oil. I know for a fact that Amel has experimented with several options and may be close to making a change to the wear bushing which may give it a longer life. But, I assume rather than busing wear with a harder bushing the seal will wear. This may be an insurmountable issue because with a very hard bushing good seals will eventually leak because they wear rather than the bushing.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

 

 

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I want to report my experience with the shaft seals and bushing.  

When I bought my SM2000 278,  It had its seal and bushing replaced and the seals oriented as recommended by AMEL.  In less than 2 seasons it was leaking water into the oil and I replaced it again in that spring finding substantial wear in the bushing, as you will see in the pix I have uploaded in face book.  After trying again the same scheme and less than two years later, as we were returning from Cartagena to Florida, just before reaching the windward passage between Cuba and Española, the transmission oil showed again the dreaded white color and I had to sail with no wind around the eastern tip of Cuba.   In Fort Lauderdale, I decided to experiment with the shaft seals direction based on my Mechanical Engineering background:  single lip seals are designed to prevent fluid from crossing the seal in only one direction; Fluid from the side facing the lip apply a pressure on the lip and it that prevents it from crossing to the other side.  Fluid coming from the other side can expand the lip and move across.  This motion of the fluid is helpful as it serves to lubricate the surface of contact between the seal and the shaft.

Based on this idea I realized that having the two inner seals facing in prevented oil leaving and to outer seal facing out prevented water coming in. As a result, none of the seals is lubricated and as the grease is worn out the outer seal will start leaking water in, which is not prevented to get into the transmission by the two inner seals.  The heavy wear and corrosion can be seen in the bushing surface of the outer seal.  So, even if the two inner seals are still viable they will not prevent water entry into the transmission.

My solution was to have the outer seal lip face into the transmission, preventing oil from leaving but allowing water to lubricate it.  Also, the two inner seals were oriented with the lip facing the shaft, preventing water from entering the transmission but allowing oil to move and lubricate them.

After 5 years of use, I noticed a small amount of oil loss ( < 2 cm drop in the tank) which I replaced with a heavier gear oil that completely stopped the oil loss. 

Last week I decided to replace the seals and bushings.  I noticed that the oil was perfectly clean and the two inner seals and corresponding bushing surfaces were intact but, as expected some wear was present in the outer bushing surface.  My guess is that with the heavier oil the outer lip began to work again, this time allowing a small amount of oil lubricating it.



Since after the outer lip function deteriorates the oil loss is very gradual and can be easily replaced with heavier oil, my recommendation is that the two inner seal lips should face the prop and the outer seal face the transmission.  Based on the wear pattern and total lack of wear in the inner seal I estimate that the seal/bushing system would have worked preventing water entrance into the transmission for another two or 3 years.  So my next experiment is to only replace the seals  8 years from now unless I begin to see a drop in oil level which is not fixed with heavier oil which I will report immediately.



Jose Venegas

Ipanema SM2k 278







 

Jose Venegas
 

Bill, 
I cannot see how you can state that you are certain I installed the seals wrongly the first two times when I followed religiously the "amel way" and ended up with water in the C-Drive oil within two years of use.  

Also, I don't think that your answer to the water vs oil is so obvious:  having salt or dirty water in the transmission is not good and certainly worse than having the level of oil drop by a few mm with can be topped up.  In fact, it is recommended to check the level of transmission oil as much as the engine oil level before each engine start!.

But let me be clear: lubricated  SEALS DONT fail catastrophically and certainly not 3 at a time. 
Stating that I will only know about oil loss when the C-Drive meltdown is the same as saying that the C-Drive oil could be completely replaced with water while you are motoring along;  IT JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN. 

The most important finding of my experiment was that the loss of oil ACTUALLY stopped AFTER I added an additive to the oil that effectively made it heavier.  It was the same additive used for old engines to prolong their life before full repair.  Not only I had no oil loss during use the last month of the season, and during the 5 months winter layover, but while the boat was hauled out and  I waited for the bushing to arrive (5 days), there was not a single drop of oil out of the shaft !!  

That tells me that even though there was wear on the outer seal and bushing surface (see my pix in facebook) and that wear initially allowed some oil to escape after more than 4 years of use, when the oil was thickened, the seal began to work again and my guess is that it would have worked for a long time since it was now being lubricated in reverse due to the bushing wear. 
Also worth adding is that when I drained the oil from the C-Drive, it was as good as new.  This is to be expected since, unlike engine oil, on the C-Drive the oil is not exposed to combustion materials and heavy temperatures and remains viable as long as no water leaks in. 

But, to avoid further discussion on the mater, let me be clear:
I AM NOT RECOMMENDING TO SERVICE THE C-DRIVE EVERY 8 YEARS.
I am just saying that "the amel way" for this particular issue can be improved and my experiment demonstrates it without any doubt.   

Personally, I will continue to replace the seals and oil every two years, or when the boat is wouled out but I am pretty sure that I will be able to reuse the bushing a few times, particularly after I have it chromed and I will continue reporting my experience in this forum.

Jose

 

Jose,

I said I don't want to argue. I respect you and your right to your opinion.

All I intend to do is to state the other side, which is the "Amel Way."

To say anything else, would likely be a rebuttal, so this is my only reply. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, May 10, 2018, 10:01 jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill, 

I cannot see how you can state that you are certain I installed the seals wrongly the first two times when I followed religiously the "amel way" and ended up with water in the C-Drive oil within two years of use.  

Also, I don't think that your answer to the water vs oil is so obvious:  having salt or dirty water in the transmission is not good and certainly worse than having the level of oil drop by a few mm with can be topped up.  In fact, it is recommended to check the level of transmission oil as much as the engine oil level before each engine start!.

But let me be clear: lubricated  SEALS DONT fail catastrophically and certainly not 3 at a time. 
Stating that I will only know about oil loss when the C-Drive meltdown is the same as saying that the C-Drive oil could be completely replaced with water while you are motoring along;  IT JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN. 

The most important finding of my experiment was that the loss of oil ACTUALLY stopped AFTER I added an additive to the oil that effectively made it heavier.  It was the same additive used for old engines to prolong their life before full repair.  Not only I had no oil loss during use the last month of the season, and during the 5 months winter layover, but while the boat was hauled out and  I waited for the bushing to arrive (5 days), there was not a single drop of oil out of the shaft !!  

That tells me that even though there was wear on the outer seal and bushing surface (see my pix in facebook) and that wear initially allowed some oil to escape after more than 4 years of use, when the oil was thickened, the seal began to work again and my guess is that it would have worked for a long time since it was now being lubricated in reverse due to the bushing wear. 
Also worth adding is that when I drained the oil from the C-Drive, it was as good as new.  This is to be expected since, unlike engine oil, on the C-Drive the oil is not exp osed to combustion materials and heavy temperatures and remains viable as long as no water leaks in. 

But, to avoid further discussion on the mater, let me be clear:
I AM NOT RECOMMENDING TO SERVICE THE C-DRIVE EVERY 8 YEARS.
I am just saying that "the amel way" for this particular issue can be improved and my experiment demonstrates it without any doubt.   

Personally, I will co ntinue to replace the seals and oil every two years, or when the boat is wouled out but I am pretty sure that I will be able to reuse the bushing a few times, particularly after I have it chromed and I will continue reporting my experience in this forum.

Jose

Rink De Haan
 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I also strongly disagree with the rude and unnecessary words by Rink.




--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 5/10/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, May 10, 2018, 2:50 PM


 










Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I
think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is
always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us
no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who
wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice,
retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing
us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique
vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances
of modified Amels that have turned out less than
satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small
fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore
the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I
think they are uglyBill, please keep up the good
workI will add two comments. Possibly  hours in
estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water
with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil
floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip
out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin
to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the
volume is increased by the addition of
water.RegardsDannySM 299 Ocean
Pearl
On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan
rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  
Dear
all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator.
The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add
value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute
Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53.
Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you
react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact,
which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti
intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this
forumHope for better
timesRink de
HaanAmel 2k #330 Razors
Edge

Wolfgang Weber
 

This is a very good discussion- three pieces in how many ways? After 2 years original Amel way I had some milk in the oil, next change done without me in Amel way -milk after 1 year. Then I did the changing by myself. Flushing with diesel und oil, changing the facing of the bearings- Better loose oil than adding water. Oil is still red after 2 years- but I think the major effect was my work and not the seals. Enough silicone grease and exact working is more worth than theoretical discussion. 
Today I do not fear a milky oil in the C Drive,this will not do any damage.  But I will always observe or do the changing by myself. 
So to make it easy stay with the Amel-way.
Safe sailing, good wind, clean oil and diesel.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162



Teun BAAS <teunbaas@...>
 

I believe Danny refers to me as the “new to AMEL owner who spent a small fortune” and he is absolutely right.

 

Clearly for the original owner of my boat money was not so much an object. He ordered EURO285K on AMEL options when she was built and spent, during his ownership, a huge amount of money on maintenance & upgrades performed by the some of the most reputable yards in EUROPE and NEW ZEALAND (all as per original invoices on board). The problem was that all these craftsmen only focused on their task at hand while completely ignoring how everything worked together as they were unaware of the AMEL philosophy as in (unnecessarily) drilling another raw water inlet for the new state of the art water maker.

 

I had trained for 3 weeks on a private AMEL 54 charter in the Caribbean where, at my specific request, doing maintenance (oil changes, heat exchanger removal for acid cleaning etc. etc.) was part of the charter. However when I arrived on “my” boat in December 2017 and sat in the engine room I absolutely didn’t recognize the bulk head; all the hoses crawling over & under each other; unable to get to the fridge strainer without twisting myself in a pretzel, where is the bilge pump?, where is the fresh water pump? etc. and wondered if there could have been such a difference between the 2007 and the 2009 productions

 

I met both Judy and Bill in their house in GALVESTON TX during hurricane HARVEY when I retained Bill as a purchase consultant; in the (pre) purchase process Bill made himself tirelessly available; frequently checking in & up on me while I was in NEW CALEDONIA living on the boat during the initial 3 months getting her ready for a sea-trial. He exceeded well over the allotted hours of the pre-purchase agreement w/o asking for additional compensation. My seller engaged Bill to go to NEW CALEDONIA for 1 week to hand the boat over to me; this handover was delayed at least twice. So many issues emerged that, frustrated, both the seller and I asked Bill to come over even as the boat was unable to move (due to an engine electrical fire the day after I arrived on board).

 

Bill’s involvement demonstrated his value for a NEW AMEL owner, unfamiliar with AMEL I didn’t understand nor appreciate the peculiarities of the way the boat is designed & built. But I specifically purchased an AMEL because of its reputation for quality, safety & reliability; I didn’t buy a “sail boat” but I wanted an AMEL!!!

 

By the time Bill arrived the boat had passed the complete survey (by the ex AMEL agent for the SP) except for the sea-trial as we didn’t have a running engine and were waiting for spare parts. Before Bill arrived the seller, from time to time, balked at some of the issues we reported (boat had NOT sailed for 20 months); once Bill was on board and every evening sent the seller a report (including pictures) of his findings there was NO more discussion and everything was replaced & restored to the OEM specs as well as equipment. For example: the seller had replaced the AMEL fresh water pump with a very expensive (USD1,500 to USD2,000) XCALIBUR pump; it failed. He reported a spare to be on board. That one (used) didn’t work either – so he clearly had 2 of these pumps during ownership and both failed. I frequently had gray water in the engine room; Bill determined that the AMEL bilge pump was replaced for a submerged pump etc. etc. A 5000 watt VICTRON was installed on the location of the original bilge pump as the original location for the charger was used by the new (state of the art) water maker etc. etc.

230V & 5000 watt VICTRON were right next to the raw water intake and the gray water bilge. Bill decided this was a major hazard and needed to change; again a major (expensive) exercise moving the VICTRON from the engine room (no room) to the closet near the pilot berth.

Some of major items seller & I shared the cost like the new engine (after spending USD15K on parts & labor and still NOT working) but the majority of all the costs were paid by the seller.  

 

Without Bill I would have taken delivery of the boat as the surveyor didn’t pick up on any of this as technically everything worked and was marine grade and functional for a sailboat – but it was not for an AMEL sailboat. Bill was of so much help to both seller and me during the 1st week that we jointly paid for extending his stay with another week. He worked tirelessly ALL day and I while was worn out at night he would still be on his computer for hours doing research on issues relating to my boat as well as replying other people with their AMEL questions.

 

Yes Bill is very, very set in his AMEL way but, in all honesty, from what I read on the forum in almost all cases the AMEL design has been well thought out & tested over time. Looking at my original owner he though he improved on AMEL by buying hugely more expensive pumps, motors, equipment etc.; had them installed by top of the line yards (the NEW ZEALAND yard handled AMERICA CUP boats) and over all with a disappointing, unsafe & unreliable final result.

 

I don’t have the feeling Bill is not open to discussion and surely I always found Judy and him to be extremely polite, typical Southern USA lady & gentleman - the complete opposite of my rambunctious, obnoxious Dutch in your face “say as you see it”  

If have had discussions with Bill while he is still doing this, at his age fly all over the world (NEW CAL for me; Spain last month) to help, introduce & train people with their AMEL. Surely he doesn’t need the money – he is just completely dedicated to AMEL.

 

Finally – I have been reading fori for the last 20 to 30 years; motorcycles; motorhomes, cars, cruising etc. etc. and invariably there is always name calling which then degrades into worse. I was telling somebody else here in the marina the other day that The AMEL OWNER GROUP forum is the only forum I am aware of without any of the disrespectful annotations: just an exchange of opinions & experiences of real AMEL sailors. Let’s keep it that way.

 

Best Regards Teun BAAS

AMELIT A54 #128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

May 11, 2018   09:10:30

 

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 6:50 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 

On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum

Hope for better times

Rink de Haan

Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge

 

 

 

 


 


 

Jose Venegas
 

Danny and Bill,

First, I don't take it personally our interaction and also respect and by-enlarge agree with your conservative approach to keeping the boat as close as possible to the original design.  I also agree that the safest approach for new owners, particularly those without background or experience should stay within the original specs.  So I don't see as a personal argument but more as an open discussion that may or may not lead to a better solution for some of the small issues of our boats. 

For example, adding grease ports to the furling gears can prolong the life of these very expensive parts for a long time.  The "amel way" resulted in the replacement of two gears by the previous owner and onece by me.  This is a clear example of how the "amel way" COULD BE can be improved.

Now, we all know that milky oil in the C-Drive is something common in most of our boats in spite of trying to strictly follow the "amel way".   We also know that Amel has been experimenting with ways to reduce the premature entry of water by making harder bushings and that in Martinique they have been changing the scheme having two seals to prevent water in and only one to prevent oil out.  You also told me that they now recommend heavier oil and that they had worked on a  hardened bushing surface that seems to work but Maud told me that they did not plan to sell them it in the future.  So even Amel has recognized the need to work on reducing the incidence of water leaking into the C-Drive which may not kill it but even you would agree is not good.  And that has been my motivation to write these posts.

As for Danny statement that oil cannot leave because it is lighter than water, it all depends on which direction the seals are oriented. With the Amel way, water is only prevented to come by the outer seal. Once it is gone, water can flow up along the two other seals that are not preventing that motion. In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out)  The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water.  My experience was that after 4 and 1/2 seasons there was a very slow reduction of the oil level when the outer seal/bushing wore out.  However, this leak was eliminated by adding the additive that made the oil heavier.  So, water or oil can move in or out depending on the direction of the seals that remain working.  

With my approach, the outer seal was the only one preventing oil from leaving and, just as I observed, oil began to flow out very slowly when that seal/bush surface wear developed a leak since the two inner seals did not prevent the flow of oil out.  The good news was that the leak was very very slow and that making the oil heavier acted to make that last seal work again since the additional viscous pressure drop forced the seal lip towards the shaft preventing or minimizing a further oil leak.  Note that from there on the seal was well lubricated by a minimal oil leak and likely would have kept working for a long time before oil began to flow out again.  

The good news is that this approach allows you to keep sailing until you find the proper place to do the repair and, as in my experience of 5 seasons without damaging the C-Drive.  Note that I kept the bushing/seals in place as an experiment and not as a recommendation to the general user, BUT MY EXPERIENCE LEADS ME TO RECOMMEND THE ALTERNATIVE SEAL ORIENTATION to eliminate the milky oil and give you the time to find a proper site for repairing it 

Of course, everyone is free to take it or not my recommendation and I hope that within the coming years we compare notes to see how things are going.  I do promise that I will immediately report if my C-Drive freezes ;)

No hard feelings and this closes my chapter FOR this topic until at least 2 years.

Fair winds

Jose
Ipanema SM2K 278





Porter McRoberts
 

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 
The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 

James Alton
 

Porter,

   Well put.  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 



Peter Forbes
 

Bill contributes enormous value to this forum from a huge base of invaluable probably unparalleled knowledge.

Thank you for all your help over the years of my Amel ownership.

Very sadly Carango Amel 54 #035 is now for sale.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 01:17, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


   Well put..  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 



Ian Townsend
 

We echo what so many have said. Bill Rouse has always been there for us no matter what. He has helped troubleshoot, problem solve and educate. In short, our cruising experience wouldn't be the same without him. So for that, Margaret and I want to thank you Bill. 

By virtue of the kind of responses we are seeing on this conversation string (and thankfully only a few others in the past), I am happy to see that this group can self-regulate disrespectful behavior. Let's hope the message is heard.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153

On May 11, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill contributes enormous value to this forum from a huge base of invaluable probably unparalleled knowledge.


Thank you for all your help over the years of my Amel ownership.

Very sadly Carango Amel 54 #035 is now for sale.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 01:17, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


   Well put..  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 



Mohammad Shirloo
 

A bit late in the game but here’s my two cents worth.

 

One of the main issues that steered us towards an Amel was a proven design that has been field tested for decades, for the same type of sailing that we would want to do,. Off course as technology progresses new designs and better ideas develop. In the past few years that we have owned our 54, we have run into many people who have suggested better ways of doing things. However, for us, if it has not been proven in actual real life conditions over a long period of time, it is, for the most part, a theoretical improvement of the existing design.

 

The last thing we want to have on our mind when in a blow or severe conditions, is whether our “new and improved” design will work. We are extremely pleased with our decision and she has never let us down. I would whole heartedly second Bill’s advocacy of keeping with the original Amel design.

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 3:21 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Bill contributes enormous value to this forum from a huge base of invaluable probably unparalleled knowledge.

 

Thank you for all your help over the years of my Amel ownership.

 

Very sadly Carango Amel 54 #035 is now for sale.

 

Peter

Peter Forbes

00447836 209730


On 11 May 2018, at 01:17, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

   Well put..  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

 

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

 

Best to all Amel owners,

 

James

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

 

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

 

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

 

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

 

Please keep it up!!!

 

Porter

Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Rink,

I don't agree.

Alex

SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

 

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl



On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum

Hope for better times

Rink de Haan

Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge

 

 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 

hanspeter baettig
 

Rink I agree with you. The Emek Arch is not the Amel way. Riza is not a person to work with us. The SS Arche, lets say the SS is not Amel quality; maybe from China. and It's unfair dealing with Amel owners. I paid 3500 € incl. Solar panales and other Amel owners paid 4-5 k €.
Anyway about Emek all is explained in it this forum, pro, contras. Every body must have his own experience, thats blue water sailing.
But maybe and I agree with a lot of US Amel owners, Bill makes a good job for new Amel Owners. But like in life, we both have a lot of experieance of out boat. me for 26 years owner of my SM. And there are a lot of other Amel owners  having the same or more knowledge of the Amel'.
But what Bill is doing, other the us, his is distributing his knowledeg to the new Amel owners, I believe thats amazing; even I'm not all the time in line with him. So go on Bill.
Just my 2 cents wording
Hanspeter
SM16,Tamango 2
Teneriffa


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 11.05.2018 um 12:09 schrieb Ian Townsend smlocalola@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

We echo what so many have said. Bill Rouse has always been there for us no matter what. He has helped troubleshoot, problem solve and educate. In short, our cruising experience wouldn't be the same without him. So for that, Margaret and I want to thank you Bill. 

By virtue of the kind of responses we are seeing on this conversation string (and thankfully only a few others in the past), I am happy to see that this group can self-regulate disrespectful behavior. Let's hope the message is heard.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153

On May 11, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill contributes enormous value to this forum from a huge base of invaluable probably unparalleled knowledge.


Thank you for all your help over the years of my Amel ownership.

Very sadly Carango Amel 54 #035 is now for sale.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 01:17, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


   Well put..  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge