[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Two questions


 

Alan,

Good points.

All,

This "ground issue" gets very confusing to most people. Let me add to the confusion, or maybe add some humor...you be the judge:
  • The Amel Bonding System is NOT a GROUND.
  • Amel did not connect any electronic ground posts to the Amel Bonding system.
  • Further confusing the issue, Pouchon (Amel's electronics subcontractor) on some Amels connected a yellow/green wire to the ground terminal on some instruments, but terminated the other end without connection to anything. I have known some owners and some "expert" technicians to connect this yellow/green wire to the Amel Bonding System.
  • Raymarine has no idea what an Amel Bonding System is and really never defines "Ground" in any manual I have.
  • As someone who at a very young age (vacuum tube) built electronic radios, stereos, etc., I would connect the cases ("ground") of components together to reduce RFI.
  • I have no idea what Raymarine wishes to accomplish, but I assume that since they have to write manuals that are universal, they don't want a customer service issue for RFI. I have seen some RFI Floating Platforms disguised as cruising boats and when anchored nearby have been affected by the RFI they broadcast. I assume Raymarine develops an installation manual that reduces customer service issues from even these RFI floating platforms.
I hope the above helps more than it hurts...if not, maybe it was entertaining.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:13 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Herbert and Alan

Thank you, I will start by not connecting the shield then if I run into problem I know where to start digging
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259



Ryan Meador
 

Hi Bill,

Your post makes me wonder if I am misinformed.  I thought the AC ground (not the neutral) from the shore power cable was connected to the bonding system (possibly via a galvanic isolator, if your boat is so equipped).  Is that not the case?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,

Good points.

All,

This "ground issue" gets very confusing to most people. Let me add to the confusion, or maybe add some humor...you be the judge:
  • The Amel Bonding System is NOT a GROUND.
  • Amel did not connect any electronic ground posts to the Amel Bonding system.
  • Further confusing the issue, Pouchon (Amel's electronics subcontractor) on some Amels connected a yellow/green wire to the ground terminal on some instruments, but terminated the other end without connection to anything. I have known some owners and some "expert" technicians to connect this yellow/green wire to the Amel Bonding System.
  • Raymarine has no idea what an Amel Bonding System is and really never defines "Ground" in any manual I have.
  • As someone who at a very young age (vacuum tube) built electronic radios, stereos, etc., I would connect the cases ("ground") of components together to reduce RFI.
  • I have no idea what Raymarine wishes to accomplish, but I assume that since they have to write manuals that are universal, they don't want a customer service issue for RFI. I have seen some RFI Floating Platforms disguised as cruising boats and when anchored nearby have been affected by the RFI they broadcast. I assume Raymarine develops an installation manual that reduces customer service issues from even these RFI floating platforms.
I hope the above helps more than it hurts...if not, maybe it was entertaining.


On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:13 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Herbert and Alan

Thank you, I will start by not connecting the shield then if I run into problem I know where to start digging
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259




 

Ryan,

Let me give you the short answer:
The AC "Earth" is not part of the Amel Bonding system. The two systems were designed to stand alone. However, when Amel chose the Calpeda 220VAC Saltwater pump for Climma AC, an unintended connection between the two was created because AC Current safety necessitates that the steel pump case to be connected to Earth and electrolysis necessitates that the steel saltwater pump be connected to Bonding. Since the pump and motor are steel and connected to one another, there is a crossover between the two systems.

This situation is a good reason to install a March Mag-Drive Pump rather that a pump like the Capelda 220VAC pump. Coose that March pump wisely because of the normal unpainted steel on most of their pumps. If you buy one of these do something to mitigate rust/oxidation.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

Your post makes me wonder if I am misinformed.  I thought the AC ground (not the neutral) from the shore power cable was connected to the bonding system (possibly via a galvanic isolator, if your boat is so equipped).  Is that not the case?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Alan,

Good points.

All,

This "ground issue" gets very confusing to most people. Let me add to the confusion, or maybe add some humor...you be the judge:
  • The Amel Bonding System is NOT a GROUND.
  • Amel did not connect any electronic ground posts to the Amel Bonding system.
  • Further confusing the issue, Pouchon (Amel's electronics subcontractor) on some Amels connected a yellow/green wire to the ground terminal on some instruments, but terminated the other end without connection to anything. I have known some owners and some "expert" technicians to connect this yellow/green wire to the Amel Bonding System.
  • Raymarine has no idea what an Amel Bonding System is and really never defines "Ground" in any manual I have.
  • As someone who at a very young age (vacuum tube) built electronic radios, stereos, etc., I would connect the cases ("ground") of components together to reduce RFI.
  • I have no idea what Raymarine wishes to accomplish, but I assume that since they have to write manuals that are universal, they don't want a customer service issue for RFI. I have seen some RFI Floating Platforms disguised as cruising boats and when anchored nearby have been affected by the RFI they broadcast.. I assume Raymarine develops an installation manual that reduces customer service issues from even these RFI floating platforms.
I hope the above helps more than it hurts...if not, maybe it was entertaining.


On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:13 AM, osterberg.paul.l@gmail..com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Herbert and Alan

Thank you, I will start by not connecting the shield then if I run into problem I know where to start digging
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259





 

I think your question was directed to me. My suggestion is to buy the March pump that the Climma distributor recommends. If you are in the US, it is Coastal Climate Control. In the EU, it is Veco.

And, I believe with ACs, it is liters/min that is the most important number. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018, 11:38 brass.ring@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

A couple of follow up questions concerning the Calpeda raw water pump for the A/C units.  You mentioned a March Mag-Drive pump that could be a replacement and better for the Amel bonding system.  Does this have something to do with the pump motor or that the wet end of the pump is magnetically coupled to the motor?

 

The Calpeda pump on my boat is rated at ½ hp while the March is 1/8 hp.  I was also looking at an Iwaka MD-70-R-220 magnetically coupled pump rated at ¼ hp used by other water cooled air conditioner manufacturers.  The head pressures seem to be the major differentiating factor, do you know the Amel/Climma system head pressure target?

 

Thanks in advance for your input.


Mark Mueller

Brass Ring  A54-68

Ft. Lauderdale