[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More


 

Craig & All,

You are correct about Loctite, and I said, that until yesterday, that is what I believed.

HOWEVER, I am correct about Dessalator stating this is required. In this case I believe that any Amel Owner should defer to what Dessalator states.

ADDITIONALLY, To ensure my complete understanding of what Dessalator was saying, I exchanged several drawings with Dessalator illustrating the application on the flare part of the JIC.

OF COURSE, any owner can and should make his own judgement as to what to do in  this case. 

I was hoping that my communication the Amel Owner's Group would be appreciated, rather than argued. I will consider this issue the next time I learn something that I believe owners would want to know.

A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with Loctite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Br iggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Alan Leslie
 

Our Dessaltor DUO 60 manual, English version, states :

"The HP connectors should be installed strictly in accordance with the instructions (Appendix A2). Apply a little loctite or nut seal to the two male and female cones before tightening"

BUT this is not mentioned in the French version which came with the boat.

We have had leaks also from the tapered thread connector that screws into the membrane housing.

I use hydraulic thread sealant on all the metal to metal connections.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437





Craig Briggs
 

Oh Bill, puleeze - nobody's arguing. Not worth getting your pants in a bunch. The Dessalator guy just had the wrong Loctite number. I'm sure you accurately reported the (incorrect) info he gave you.  Not a biggie - we still love you!

So bottom line, Loctite recommends putting 5452 on the flared male surface of JIC fittings and on the threads. Dessalator recommends putting 542 (a thread locker only) on the smooth flared surface. Easy to pick the correct one.  

Cheers, Craig

--In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig & All,

You are correct about Loctite, and I said, that until yesterday, that is what I believed.

HOWEVER, I am correct about Dessalator stating this is required. In this case I believe that any Amel Owner should defer to what Dessalator states.

ADDITIONALLY, To ensure my complete understanding of what Dessalator was saying, I exchanged several drawings with Dessalator illustrating the application on the flare part of the JIC.

OF COURSE, any owner can and should make his own judgement as to what to do in  this case. 

I was hoping that my communication the Amel Owner's Group would be appreciated, rather than argued. I will consider this issue the next time I learn something that I believe owners would want to know.

A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,
Bill Rouse

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with Loctite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Br iggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Craig Briggs
 


Hey Bill,

On the second part of your post about the gal with the possibly damaged high pressure flare faces, I've had perfect results with leaking/damaged flare joint in the past with the Flaretite seals which actually provide fresh metal for the sealing joint, along with the baked on Loctite. Certainly worth a try and much better than Loctite alone.

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris

--In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig & All,

......(2nd part of original post)...................A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,
Bill Rouse


 

Craig,

I cannot guarantee that anyone, anywhere is correct, rather all I can do is ask the questions of Dessalator, the OEM watermaker supplier to Amel, verify what Dessalator said, and verify what Dessalator meant.

When I asked the question, Dessalator told me “It is essential to reassemble the high pressure hose with Loctite 542 on the conical part.” I wasn't satisfied with that answer because of language issues with technical questions/answers. So I made 3 graphics of 542 on different parts of the JIC male end. After two-back-and-forths with Dessalator marking up my graphics, it was perfectly clear that by conical they meant the 37 degree flare portions and NOTHING on the threads. I also sent them a photo of a bottle of 542 to ensure that we were talking about the same Loctite product. They verified that. Then I produced the graphic shown here for the Amel School Clients. I reworded what Dessalator originally said to read,  “It is essential to reassemble the high pressure hose with Loctite 542 on the flare part only...not the threads.”

Then I posted a revised Membrane Replacement Procedure for my Clients.

At that point, I thought that this is important and maybe some other owners in the Amel Yacht Owners group would want the same information.

Note, at no time did I take the "easy way" out by GOOGLING for the answer.

I am sorry that what I did was not considered valuable by you, but maybe someone else needed it. And maybe someone could argue that there is a better and different way to handle this JIC flare joint...all possible. BUT, what I posted is what the OEM Supplier to Amel said and meant.



Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:05 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Oh Bill, puleeze - nobody's arguing. Not worth getting your pants in a bunch. The Dessalator guy just had the wrong Loctite number. I'm sure you accurately reported the (incorrect) info he gave you.  Not a biggie - we still love you!


So bottom line, Loctite recommends putting 5452 on the flared male surface of JIC fittings and on the threads. Dessalator recommends putting 542 (a thread locker only) on the smooth flared surface. Easy to pick the correct one.  

Cheers, Craig

--In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig & All,

You are correct about Loctite, and I said, that until yesterday, that is what I believed.

HOWEVER, I am correct about Dessalator stating this is required. In this case I believe that any Amel Owner should defer to what Dessalator states.

ADDITIONALLY, To ensure my complete understanding of what Dessalator was saying, I exchanged several drawings with Dessalator illustrating the application on the flare part of the JIC.

OF COURSE, any owner can and should make his own judgement as to what to do in  this case. 

I was hoping that my communication the Amel Owner's Group would be appreciated, rather than argued. I will consider this issue the next time I learn something that I believe owners would want to know.

A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,
Bill Rouse

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with L octite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Br iggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@...,
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Craig Briggs
 

Relax, Bill!  Of course there's more you can do than just taking the mechanics word for it, and very simply, too. As the saying goes, "when in doubt, read the directions."
Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

I cannot guarantee that anyone, anywhere is correct, rather all I can do is ask the questions of Dessalator, the OEM watermaker supplier to Amel, verify what Dessalator said, and verify what Dessalator meant...........................

Best,
Bill Rouse