|
Mark Erdos
Ryan,
This is the age
old question! Should I run at a higher RPM for an extra knot but half the fuel efficiency?
The diesel engine manufacturer says yes, my wallet says no.
Our personal preference
under engine only is about 1800 RPM (Yanmar 4jh4). This is where we burn about
a gallon of fuel per hour and can get about 6 knots pretty easily. When motor
sailing – we will run at 14-1500 RPM. The fuel burn is about ¾ gal per hour.
If you decide
to run the engine at lower RPM to save fuel (as we do), then it is very
important to run the engine hard for about 5 minutes every hour. For us this is
26-2800 RPM. This will eliminate carbon build up in the exhaust system and
prolong the life of the engine. Diesel engines prefer to be run hard about 80%
of max RPM. Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the
engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This
is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual. I would assume the same is true
for Volvo.
Hope this helps
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 2:35 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Hi all,
I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the
"correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found
what I want. What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct
answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop. But what I really want
to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what
RPM I should be cruising at? By this I mean the RPM you would use if
you needed to motor for a long period of time. If the max RPM is
different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be
different for everyone. Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the
max? I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of
our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies,
or even if it's a good rule in the first place. Should we rev to whatever
is necessary to go a certain speed? Is there any harm in operating the
engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?
For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?).. I
typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about
6.5kts. I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original
spare). I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first
bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer
going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I
had it scraped only a couple weeks ago). I do not know my max RPM; my
engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it
until that is replaced. The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure
it can go higher. I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.
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Full throttle for us is 3000 rpm at 8knots when the bottom is shiny clean. Our normal cruise is 2000 at 6knots. Bumped up occasionally to 2800 to get things hot. Speeds are slower if it’s rough, of course.
That’s pretty much the normal expected values for the Super Maramu with the TMD22.
We have the MaxProp. I’d guess your fixed prop would be incrementally more efficient.
The engine is not really rated to run at full power output indefinetly, but should have no trouble with 80%.
Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Annapolis, MD, USA
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Barry Ferguson <seagasm@...>
You are going to all sorts of advise and as always, the opinion of the reply is always best. Troll around some 4x4 forums where you will obtain very good hints like install a catch can. Now, my own experience is this, my SM has a TMD22A installed, this is a Turbo version of the Volvo built by Perkins. Incidently, these are believed to be in most taxis around London. With the older Autoprop which is lubricated by sea water, I cruise under power only at 6 knots at 2000 rpm, the speed of course varies depending on sea conditions. I don’t bother going any faster as this seems to be a very comfortable temperature for the engine. On such a trip I will open her up to full 3000 rpm for about 5 minutes, prior to entering my destination, allowing the temperature to drop back to normal. I motored ALL the way from Noumea to Bundaberg in perfectly calm conditions with the engine purring away all the time at 2000 rpm. I have experienced trial drag races with another boat of 8 knots at 3000 rpm in glassy conditions up in Hitchbrook Island without running over a Croc (I think) and it will not get better so I am happy. However, I have ditched the Autoprop in favour of the spare fixed prop since this seems to run smoother but not quite the performance but I still maintain that 2000 rpm. It’s a cruising boat.
Best regards Barry & Robyn Tradewinds III SM # 171 -- Kind Regards Barry Ferguson Email: seagasm@...Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046 PO Box 1339 Hervey Bay Qld 4655 Australia
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Ryan , I have a Volvo TMD22A ,I also have a fixed prop for now,soon going to purchase a feathering prop, and I max out at 3100 rpm @ 8.3 kts., 2200 sounds good and gets me 6.5 kts. However max rpm on this engine is 4500 and I have been wrestling with how I should pitch my new prop. The prop manufacturers believe I should be able to attain 4500, otherwise I am leaving HP. on the table. But 80% of that would be 3600 RPM and I don't want to run the engine at those rpms all day, fuel/noise and wear. Your in one of those gray areas ,where there is no correct or incorrect answer. Take her up until you hear a sweet spot and run her there ,then once in awhile take her up to a full gallop.
Pat
SM Shenanigans
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Jul 6, 2018 2:36 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Hi all,
I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want. What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop. But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at? By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time. If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone. Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max? I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place. Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed? Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?
For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?).. I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts. I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare). I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago). I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced. The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher. I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.
Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
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Barry Ferguson <seagasm@...>
I would not do what Pat suggests, that’s rubbish.
Kind regards Barry & Robyn Tradwinds III SM 171 -- Kind Regards Barry Ferguson Email: seagasm@...Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046 PO Box 1339 Hervey Bay Qld 4655 Australia
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Barry, " Rubbish" , that was a bit harsh, all I suggested was to run it at a rpm that sounded good,in other words not laboring too hard, and then once in awhile run it a little harder to blow out carbon deposits. Sounds like what you do. Go back to bed mate, and get up on the other side.
Pat
SM #123
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Ferguson seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Jul 6, 2018 5:40 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
I would not do what Pat suggests, that’s rubbish.
Kind regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradwinds III SM 171
--
Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson
Email: seagasm@...
Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046
PO Box 1339
Hervey Bay Qld 4655
Australia
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Mark Erdos
Barry,
Rather than just
trash another member’s post, perhaps you could support your argument with some cold
hard facts. After all, this isn’t FaceBook.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 5:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
I would not do what Pat suggests, that’s rubbish.
--
Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson
Email: seagasm@...
Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046
PO Box 1339
Hervey Bay Qld 4655
Australia
|
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|
Hi Mark, Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429 La Maddalena, Sardegna
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Mark Erdos
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I
didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the
post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the
manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED
in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want
specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102,
page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway.
This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard
carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below
the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about
running the engine while underway.
Regardless of
whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the
procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to
remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a
little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will
shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour
for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but
I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and
it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section
4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long
periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the
Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the
engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon
built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.
Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower
the efficiency of the engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while
it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for
cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5
minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar
recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to
run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think
that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the
transmission and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and
run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is
in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Porter McRoberts
Ok. Bullshit aside. I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. It’s the same for all diesels. Yes? Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%? And for how long?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Porter A54-152.
Excuse the errors. Sent from my IPhone
On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I
didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the
post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the
manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED
in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want
specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102,
page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway.
This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard
carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below
the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about
running the engine while underway.
Regardless of
whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the
procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to
remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a
little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will
shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour
for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but
I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and
it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section
4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long
periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the
Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the
engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon
built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.
Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower
the efficiency of the engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while
it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for
cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5
minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar
recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to
run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think
that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the
transmission and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and
run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is
in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Mark Erdos
Porter,
It really doesn’t
matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out
the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take
longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the
engine faster.
This is true
for all diesel engines.
Where you run
the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the
engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger,
if fitted with one.
How long? At
least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently. We
run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind,
this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a
genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when
charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load
of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning
of the charge cycle.
Hope this
helps.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a
while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would
be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat
dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically
operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher
exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain
engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Nicely put, Mark. The "... this isn't FaceBook" got many a laugh
here.
And I also like to know why my rubbish is rubbish, so to speak.
As Chief I broke a lot of stuff before I learned to ask others,
and "rubbish" was a perfectly common reply in many of our chief'y
discussions ... as long as there was a "why" to go along with it.
Kim
(Lapsed USCG licensed Chief Engineer, soon to be Amel sailor ...
just the minor detail of selling my house in the mountains ... and
clearing out 20 years of acquired rubbish.)
On 7/6/18 4:07 PM, 'Mark Erdos'
mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Barry,
Rather than
just
trash another member’s post, perhaps you could support
your argument with some cold
hard facts. After all, this isn’t FaceBook.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing
Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
I would not do what Pat
suggests, that’s rubbish.
--
Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson
Email: seagasm@...
Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046
PO Box 1339
Hervey Bay Qld 4655
Australia
|
|
|
Porter McRoberts
Thanks Mark. If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal? Thanks again!
On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Porter,
It really doesn’t
matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out
the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take
longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the
engine faster.
This is true
for all diesel engines.
Where you run
the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the
engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger,
if fitted with one.
How long? At
least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently.. We
run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind,
this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a
genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when
charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load
of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning
of the charge cycle.
Hope this
helps.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a
while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would
be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat
dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically
operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher
exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain
engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Teun BAAS
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so,
and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best Regards Teun
AMELIT 54 – 128
NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018
10:27:44
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Porter
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load
on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This
is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five
minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup.
Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend
to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate
the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine
while underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature
of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar
operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you
quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and
shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the
engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot
find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission
and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Thanks Mark, Good to know, just couldn't find it in our manual so I do appreciate the citation from the other Yanmar manual. Based on that I think I feel better about operating at higher speeds periodically--we max out at about 3300 rpm.
Bob KAIMI SM#429
|
|
|
Mark Erdos
Teun,
Common rail
engines have been around for years and while they offer lower emissions and
soot from the exhaust they are not the cure-all. The thing to remember here is
all marine diesel engines are engines designed for land adapted to a marine
application. No diesel engine is designed to run at 25% power for days on end. If
a land based application called for only 25 hp then a 25 hp engine would be
used, not a 110 hp engine. It is my opinion the even the most modern newest technologically
advanced diesel engine still has emission issues (soot and carbon buildup) at
low end rpms. Look at the recent history of VW and how they adjusted the
software of the engine to trick the emissions computers. They did this because their
latest efforts at design and massive expenditure failed to produce a clean
burning diesel engine.
So, the question
I have for you is, what does it hurt to push up the RPM once in a while? If the
engine is designed to run at x RPM then it should be able to run at 80% of x
rpm for at least five minutes per hour, should it not?
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 7:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Importance: High
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a
new VOLVO installed. If so, and it is a common rail, then there is NO
need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific
instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my
VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best
Regards Teun
AMELIT
54 – 128
NOUMEA
NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018 10:27:44
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark.
If
temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it
but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is
done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a
load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the
engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too
much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours
while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour
for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the
ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will
cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We
find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The
battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge
cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I
do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s
the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is
“racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to
increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2
raw water flow.
Forget
the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many
thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote,
“Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will
generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon
deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Mark Erdos
Porter,
I think you
need to look in the manual for the correct temperature range of the engine. It
should give you a range in the specs section. You will want to run at the high
end of the range for a few minutes.
My 4jh4 tops
out at 87°C or about 190°F. At lower RPMs it runs just below 82°C or about 180°F
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 7:24 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80.
What should be the goal?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it
but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is
done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a
load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the
engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too
much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours
while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour
for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the
ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will
cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We
find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The
battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge
cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I
do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s
the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is
“racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to
increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2
raw water flow.
Forget
the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many
thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote,
“Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will
generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon
deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Porter McRoberts
Teun, Mostly true. New long block 800 hours ago and New injectors about 400 hours ago. It is a common rail. On a different topic. We’re currently stuck in panama with a bad boost pressure sensor. I have envy of anyone who can unplug the computer and have the engine run. The concept that a computer controlled engine be installed in a world cruising sailboat seems antithetical to the purpose of a sailboat, and to ours in particular. I’ve been training (at your knees, and especially Bill R’s) for the past year to be as self sufficient as possible, and to be thwarted by a stray electron underscores how vulnerable we are. Our cruising buddies are on a 1984 trintella. Sailed from Croatia. They are in year #5. Old Perkins runs like a boss. I asked my buddy, who is in his own right a Jedi of machinery, how often he changes his fuel filters. He chuckled. “I don’t think I’ve needed to do that” he said. Pressure’s good. Engine runs well. I had engine envy. Not that the Volvo isn’t a fine piece of hardware, but.... it’s the intersection of important and complicated. Not a good combo. Like I say. Thank God for sails, and the fact that we sailors got around just fine for the first 1000 years without motors.
In short. Seems like diesels (or the industry and associated standards) took a step back in the past 15 years putting efficiency over simplicity. I think Nigel Calder would agree.
Have wonderful Sundays. Without this motor glitch we wouldn’t have seen the incredibly beautiful town of El Valle up here in the Panamanian cordillera.
Porter, Helen and crew S/V Ibis 54-152 Panama City
On Jul 7, 2018, at 6:30 PM, Teun BAAS teun@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so,
and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best Regards Teun
AMELIT 54 – 128
NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018
10:27:44
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Porter
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load
on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This
is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five
minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup.
Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend
to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate
the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine
while underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature
of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar
operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you
quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and
shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the
engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot
find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission
and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Courtney Gorman
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Teun, Mostly true. New long block 800 hours ago and New injectors about 400 hours ago. It is a common rail. On a different topic. We’re currently stuck in panama with a bad boost pressure sensor. I have envy of anyone who can unplug the computer and have the engine run. The concept that a computer controlled engine be installed in a world cruising sailboat seems antithetical to the purpose of a sailboat, and to ours in particular. I’ve been training (at your knees, and especially Bill R’s) for the past year to be as self sufficient as possible, and to be thwarted by a stray electron underscores how vulnerable we are. Our cruising buddies are on a 1984 trintella. Sailed from Croatia. They are in year #5. Old Perkins runs like a boss. I asked my buddy, who is in his own right a Jedi of machinery, how often he changes his fuel filters. He chuckled. “I don’t think I’ve needed to do that” he said. Pressure’s good. Engine runs well. I had engine envy. Not that the Volvo isn’t a fine piece of hardware, but.... it’s the intersection of important and complicated. Not a good combo. Like I say. Thank God for sails, and the fact that we sailors got around just fine for the first 1000 years without motors.
In short. Seems like diesels (or the industry and associated standards) took a step back in the past 15 years putting efficiency over simplicity. I think Nigel Calder would agree.
Have wonderful Sundays. Without this motor glitch we wouldn’t have seen the incredibly beautiful town of El Valle up here in the Panamanian cordillera.
Porter, Helen and crew S/V Ibis 54-152 Panama City
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so,
and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best Regards Teun
AMELIT 54 – 128
NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018
10:27:44
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Porter
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load
on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This
is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five
minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup.
Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend
to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate
the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine
while underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature
of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar
operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you
quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and
shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the
engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot
find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission
and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
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Thank you all for the info. As I predicted going in, there is no simple answer. But I think I have some guides now.
Ryan and Kelly SM 233 Iteration Boston, MA, USA
Amen Porter well said
Teun, Mostly true. New long block 800 hours ago and New injectors about 400 hours ago. It is a common rail. On a different topic. We’re currently stuck in panama with a bad boost pressure sensor. I have envy of anyone who can unplug the computer and have the engine run. The concept that a computer controlled engine be installed in a world cruising sailboat seems antithetical to the purpose of a sailboat, and to ours in particular. I’ve been training (at your knees, and especially Bill R’s) for the past year to be as self sufficient as possible, and to be thwarted by a stray electron underscores how vulnerable we are. Our cruising buddies are on a 1984 trintella. Sailed from Croatia. They are in year #5. Old Perkins runs like a boss. I asked my buddy, who is in his own right a Jedi of machinery, how often he changes his fuel filters. He chuckled. “I don’t think I’ve needed to do that” he said. Pressure’s good. Engine runs well. I had engine envy. Not that the Volvo isn’t a fine piece of hardware, but.... it’s the intersection of important and complicated. Not a good combo. Like I say. Thank God for sails, and the fact that we sailors got around just fine for the first 1000 years without motors.
In short. Seems like diesels (or the industry and associated standards) took a step back in the past 15 years putting efficiency over simplicity. I think Nigel Calder would agree.
Have wonderful Sundays. Without this motor glitch we wouldn’t have seen the incredibly beautiful town of El Valle up here in the Panamanian cordillera.
Porter, Helen and crew S/V Ibis 54-152 Panama City
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so,
and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best Regards Teun
AMELIT 54 – 128
NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018
10:27:44
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Porter
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load
on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This
is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five
minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup.
Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend
to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate
the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine
while underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature
of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar
operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you
quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and
shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the
engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot
find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission
and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
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