Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Steering Failure on “Aloha” SM72


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks for this detailed description Steve,

I would suggest though that your problem with the rack and pinion was a direct result of the cable failure. The seriously increased load caused by the failed cable caused that. So I agree, if there is stiffness in the steering check the cables first, and do it sooner than later and replace them before more damage is done. Then it is much less likely the rack and pinion will fail and I doubt if preventative replacement is necessary.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl.


On 02 August 2018 at 06:51 "flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I want to thank everyone who helped diagnose our steering problems, and let you all know the final outcome. After our complete steering failure from Panama to Hawaii due to broken teeth in both steering racks, we assumed that replacement of both racks and pinion/steering shaft would resolve the problem, but that proved not to be the case. We have now replaced both steering cables, and our steering perfect.

When we removed the steering cables from the boat and racks, we found that one cable worked smoothly by hand, and the other was nearly impossible to move. We inspected the bad cable externally, and found no sign of any damage.. When I get time, I’ll attempt to cut the sheath off the cable, and determine what actually failed. Once the new cables were installed in the boat, the steering was smoother than it has ever been, and we have the required 1.5 turns in each direction.

When we first replaced the racks and pinion, I couldn’t imagine we had a problem with the cables, as they look incredibly robust. We learned a lesson on this one, and if anyone suspects a problem with their steering, I’d recommend replacement of all components. The cables and racks are made by Ultraflex of Italy, and can be supplied by Amel for about $1200 plus shipping. That price also includes a new pinion. Our pinion was in serviceable condition, but we did not want to mate the
new racks with a slightly worn pinion. If you have an older hull number like ours, you will probably find the original Ultraflex cables are M41 23 FT, and the new cables supplied will be M61 25FT. They appear to be the same cables except the new ones are 2’ longer and have a different style adjustment nut near the quadrant. I suspect sometime not to long after hull 72, Amel decided that a 2’ longer cable made for a slightly smoother cable run. Also, the end pieces that screw onto the cables and then insert into the racks were originally of a plastic material. At some point in production, Amel started manufacturing a metal end piece, and changing them out in the racks supplied by Ultraflex. We were able to buy the end pieces from Amel for about $50 each, and replace the ones provided with our new racks. If you have an older SM with the plastic end pieces, it would not be a bad idea to change them.

We could not find a lot of good information on the forum regarding how to take the steering apart. The first time we changed the racks and pinion was a bit of a learning curve. By the third time we completely removed the steering from the boat to change the cables, we were fairly good at it. It is not a bad job once you know what you are doing, and we could now easily remove the entire steering system from the boat and reinstall in a day. Removing the cables requires at least 2 people. I’ll try and write something up and post it when I have time. Anyone with a fairly old hull number that has seen a lot of sea miles should consider replacing their steering. We had convinced ourselves the steering would last forever, but learned the hard way, that is not the case. My other recommendation is while on a nice day sail, rig your emergency steering, and see how it works. You will find the boat actually fun to steer with the tiller, and it would be nice to know you have all the parts available, and know how to put it together.

On another note, Liz and I are the OCC Port Officers for Hawaii, and for anyone considering sailing here, please contact us, and we can provide you some useful information. Thanks again for the help in diagnosing our problem, and now we are going sailing.

Best Regards,

Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii


 


 


Stephen Davis
 

Hi Danny,

I tend to agree that the friction in the steering cable was a major contributing factor to losing teeth in the racks. With that said, the boat was almost 26 years old at the time, and metal fatigue in the racks could have easily have been a factor as well. With 20/20 hindsight, I should have replaced the steering with the major refit we did on the boat after we bought her. Live and learn!!

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72

On Aug 2, 2018, at 09:07, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for this detailed description Steve,

I would suggest though that your problem with the rack and pinion was a direct result of the cable failure. The seriously increased load caused by the failed cable caused that. So I agree, if there is stiffness in the steering check the cables first, and do it sooner than later and replace them before more damage is done. Then it is much less likely the rack and pinion will fail and I doubt if preventative replacement is necessary.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl.


On 02 August 2018 at 06:51 "flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I want to thank everyone who helped diagnose our steering problems, and let you all know the final outcome. After our complete steering failure from Panama to Hawaii due to broken teeth in both steering racks, we assumed that replacement of both racks and pinion/steering shaft would resolve the problem, but that proved not to be the case. We have now replaced both steering cables, and our steering perfect.

When we removed the steering cables from the boat and racks, we found that one cable worked smoothly by hand, and the other was nearly impossible to move. We inspected the bad cable externally, and found no sign of any damage.. When I get time, I’ll attempt to cut the sheath off the cable, and determine what actually failed. Once the new cables were installed in the boat, the steering was smoother than it has ever been, and we have the required 1.5 turns in each direction.

When we first replaced the racks and pinion, I couldn’t imagine we had a problem with the cables, as they look incredibly robust. We learned a lesson on this one, and if anyone suspects a problem with their steering, I’d recommend replacement of all components. The cables and racks are made by Ultraflex of Italy, and can be supplied by Amel for about $1200 plus shipping. That price also includes a new pinion. Our pinion was in serviceable condition, but we did not want to mate the
new racks with a slightly worn pinion. If you have an older hull number like ours, you will probably find the original Ultraflex cables are M41 23 FT, and the new cables supplied will be M61 25FT. They appear to be the same cables except the new ones are 2’ longer and have a different style adjustment nut near the quadrant. I suspect sometime not to long after hull 72, Amel decided that a 2’ longer cable made for a slightly smoother cable run. Also, the end pieces that screw onto the cables and then insert into the racks were originally of a plastic material. At some point in production, Amel started manufacturing a metal end piece, and changing them out in the racks supplied by Ultraflex. We were able to buy the end pieces from Amel for about $50 each, and replace the ones provided with our new racks. If you have an older SM with the plastic end pieces, it would not be a bad idea to change them.

We could not find a lot of good information on the forum regarding how to take the steering apart. The first time we changed the racks and pinion was a bit of a learning curve. By the third time we completely removed the steering from the boat to change the cables, we were fairly good at it. It is not a bad job once you know what you are doing, and we could now easily remove the entire steering system from the boat and reinstall in a day. Removing the cables requires at least 2 people. I’ll try and write something up and post it when I have time. Anyone with a fairly old hull number that has seen a lot of sea miles should consider replacing their steering. We had convinced ourselves the steering would last forever, but learned the hard way, that is not the case. My other recommendation is while on a nice day sail, rig your emergency steering, and see how it works. You will find the boat actually fun to steer with the tiller, and it would be nice to know you have all the parts available, and know how to put it together.

On another note, Liz and I are the OCC Port Officers for Hawaii, and for anyone considering sailing here, please contact us, and we can provide you some useful information. Thanks again for the help in diagnosing our problem, and now we are going sailing.

Best Regards,

Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii


 


 


James Alton
 

Hello All,

   A lot of good information here on the Amel steering system, thanks for all that have contributed.  I was wondering if anyone could comment on whether the cables or any other parts of the steering system require  adjustment over time?  The steering on my boat is feather lite such that the wheel wants to turn back and forth at the dock due to even slight movements due to wave action.  The action in both directions is also perfectly smooth and light.  There is however a  slight amount of play in the system and I am wondering what is considered normal?  I have not measured the amount of play but would estimate that if the wheel is locked that the rudder can be moved back and forth at the trailing edge perhaps 1/4”.  Part of this play appears to be in the lower bearing but most seems to be in the cables and perhaps the rack and pinion.  The system appears to be original so would now be 31 years old but the boat was lightly used.  Any information on adjustments (if any) to the steering system would be appreciated.

Thanks,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 2, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks for this detailed description Steve,

I would suggest though that your problem with the rack and pinion was a direct result of the cable failure. The seriously increased load caused by the failed cable caused that. So I agree, if there is stiffness in the steering check the cables first, and do it sooner than later and replace them before more damage is done. Then it is much less likely the rack and pinion will fail and I doubt if preventative replacement is necessary.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl.


On 02 August 2018 at 06:51 "flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

I want to thank everyone who helped diagnose our steering problems, and let you all know the final outcome. After our complete steering failure from Panama to Hawaii due to broken t eeth in both steering racks, we assumed that replacement of both racks and pinion/steering shaft would resolve the problem, but that proved not to be the case. We have now replaced both steering cables, and our steering perfect. 

When we removed the steering cables from the boat and racks, we found that one cable worked smoothly by hand, and the other was nearly impossible to move. We inspected the bad cable externally, and found no sign of any damage.. When I get time, I’ll attempt to cut the sheath off the cable, and determine what actually failed. Once the new cables were installed in the boat, the steering was smoother than it has ever been, and we have the required 1.5 turns in each direction. 

When we first replaced the racks and pinion, I couldn’t imagine we had a problem with the cables, as they look incredibly robust. We learned a lesson on this one, and if anyone suspects a problem with their steering, I’d recommend replacement o f all components. The cables and racks are made by Ultraflex of Italy, and can be supplied by Amel for about $1200 plus shipping. That price also includes a new pinion. Our pinion was in serviceable condition, but we did not want to mate the
new racks with a slightly worn pinion. If you have an older hull number like ours, you will probably find the original Ultraflex cables are M41 23 FT, and the new cables supplied will be M61 25FT. They appear to be the same cables except the new ones are 2’ longer and have a different style adjustment nut near the quadrant. I suspect sometime not to long after hull 72, Amel decided that a 2’ longer cable made for a slightly smoother cable run. Also, the end pieces that screw onto the cables and then insert into the racks were originally of a plastic material. At some point in production, Amel started manufacturing a metal end piece, and changing them out in the racks supplied by Ultraflex. We were able to buy the end piec es from Amel for about $50 each, and replace the ones provided with our new racks. If you have an older SM with the plastic end pieces, it would not be a bad idea to change them. 

We could not find a lot of good information on the forum regarding how to take the steering apart. The first time we changed the racks and pinion was a bit of a learning curve. By the third time we completely removed the steering from the boat to change the cables, we were fairly good at it. It is not a bad job once you know what you are doing, and we could now easily remove the entire steering system from the boat and reinstall in a day. Removing the cables requires at least 2 people. I’ll try and write something up and post it when I have time. Anyone with a fairly old hull number that has seen a lot of sea miles should consider replacing their steering. We had convinced ourselves the steering would last forever, but learned the hard way, that is not the case. My other recommendati on is while on a nice day sail, rig your emergency steering, and see how it works. You will find the boat actually fun to steer with the tiller, and it would be nice to know you have all the parts available, and know how to put it together. 

On another note, Liz and I are the OCC Port Officers for Hawaii, and for anyone considering sailing here, please contact us, and we can provide you some useful information. Thanks again for the help in diagnosing our problem, and now we are going sailing. 

Best Regards,

Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii


 


 




greatketch@...
 

James,

Here is some more good information on the adjustment of the Amel steering system from Olivier in response to a question I posted some time ago...

The steering system doesn't need any lubrication, except where you see the steel rods at the end of the cables. These rods enter a tube and you need to keep them greasy.
There shouldn't be too much slack in the cables...What too much means is when you turn the wheel and the rudder shaft doesn't turn after 5 cm (2 inches) on the wheel's circumference, then you have too much slack in the cables.
Then, you need to tighten the cables ' housings (just like on a bike brake's cable).
This happens in the aft cabin. You first undo the big hex nuts that secure the housings to the threaded tubes.
Then you turn both tubes clockwise (when you face them looking towards portside). To know how much you turn, carve a little mark on each tube.
Start with one turn on each tube, then try to turn the wheel and watch when the rudder shaft starts to turn. if you can still turn 10 cm before the rudder shaft moves, you still have too much slack. Then turn each tube half a turn and check again.
Don't forget to tighten the HEX nuts at the end of the operation.
You're right to mention that with a loose cable system, the pilot rotary drive is working half the time for nothing.
If you really tighten the housings too much, you will feel it when you turn the wheel, it will be harder.

Good luck.

Olivier
Hope that blast from the past answers your question.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


James Alton
 

Bill,

   That is exactly the information that I was looking for!  Thanks so much for your help in reposting this.  I have added this to my permanent Amel files under “Steering System" for future reference.

   Bill,  I also caught your recent  helpful comment about the need to check fasteners in the steering system for tightness in another thread on coupling bolts.   I will be going through the whole steering system just in case some or all of the play that I am noticing might be due to loose fasteners rather than the need for an adjustment in the cable.  I have found that doing preemptive maintenance generally tends to work better for me than to wait for a failure.  Besides the fact that I can often improve the performance of a system, I also get a chance to learn how things are put together and perhaps notice other items that need attention on the boat.  Sometimes I will find seized fasteners or perhaps even break something in the process of making an adjustement which can cause a temporary new problem but I much prefer to encounter these little speed bumps in Port with access to more resources!   

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220



On Aug 2, 2018, at 7:05 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


Here is some more good information on the adjustment of the Amel steering system from Olivier in response to a question I posted some time ago...

The steering system doesn't need any lubrication, except where you see the steel rods at the end of the cables. These rods enter a tube and you need to keep them greasy.
There shouldn't be too much slack in the cables...What too much means is when you turn the wheel and the rudder shaft doesn't turn after 5 cm (2 inches) on the wheel's circumference, then you have too much slack in the cables.
Then, you need to ti ghten the cables ' housings (just like on a bike brake's cable).
This happens in the aft cabin. You first undo the big hex nuts that secure the housings to the threaded tubes.
Then you turn both tubes clockwise (when you face them looking towards portside). To know how much you turn, carve a little mark on each tube.
Start with one turn on each tube, then try to turn the wheel and watch when the rudder shaft starts to turn. if you can still turn 10 cm before the rudder shaft moves, you still have too much slack. Then turn each tube half a turn and check again.
Don't forget to tighten the HEX nuts at the end of the operation.
You're right to mention that with a loose cable system, the pilot rotary drive is working half the time for nothing.
If you really tighten the housings too much, you will feel it when you turn the wheel, it will be harder.

Good luck.

Olivier
Hope that blast from the past answers your question.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA