Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

Mark Erdos
 

Tom,

 

We rebuilt our entire unit when last in the USA. We replace the thermostat, condenser and compressor. Like you we wanted to maintain the aesthetics of the wood. We looked at replacement units but rebuilding saved us about $1,000 and wasn’t hard to do. At the time we had the unit out, we also wrapped it with ½” foam board. We used duct tape to secure it to the unit. Since doing all of this, our unit now cools nicely and we can maintain about 38F even in the warmer climates. I’m not sure how much the foam helped but I figured it couldn’t hurt to increase the r-value where we could. The top of the unit is still without foam as we couldn’t get the unit back under the counter top with foam on it. Another thing that helps is to cover the hole in the bottom of the unit. We used tape but I guess a bung would work just as well. Since cold air sinks it seemed to me that it made sense to cover this. Lastly, we put a layer of foam board between the compressor unit under the fridge and the box. The compressor puts out quite a bit of heat and surely had to impact the temp of the box. We did this all at once so I can’t really tell you what part made the most difference or worked best. But, hopefully it’ll give you a few ideas. If I had to do this over again, I would opt for a larger evaporator. Hope this helps.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

 

Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.

 

In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.

 

I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).

 

I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator........even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........

 

So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative.

 

Good job, Mark. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 15:58 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Tom,

 

We rebuilt our entire unit when last in the USA. We replace the thermostat, condenser and compressor. Like you we wanted to maintain the aesthetics of the wood. We looked at replacement units but rebuilding saved us about $1,000 and wasn’t hard to do. At the time we had the unit out, we also wrapped it with ½” foam board. We used duct tape to secure it to the unit. Since doing all of this, our unit now cools nicely and we can maintain about 38F even in the warmer climates. I’m not sure how much the foam helped but I figured it couldn’t hurt to increase the r-value where we could. The top of the unit is still without foam as we couldn’t get the unit back under the counter top with foam on it. Another thing that helps is to cover the hole in the bottom of the unit. We used tape but I guess a bung would work just as well. Since cold air sinks it seemed to me that it made sense to cover this. Lastly, we put a layer of foam board between the compressor unit under the fridge and the box. The compressor puts out quite a bit of heat and surely had to impact the temp of the box. We did this all at once so I can’t really tell you what part made the most difference or worked best. But, hopefully it’ll give you a few ideas. If I had to do this over again, I would opt for a larger evaporator. Hope this helps..

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

 

Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.

 

In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.

 

I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).

 

I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator........even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........

 

So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative.

James Cromie
 

Mark - 
Where did you source your replacement components for the refrigerator (thermostat, condenser, and compressor).  Did you use Coastal Climate Control?  What components did you use specifically (were you able to replace with exactly the same parts?).

Thanks,
James 
SV Soteria SM 437

On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Good job, Mark. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 15:58 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Tom,

 

We rebuilt our entire unit when last in the USA. We replace the thermostat, condenser and compressor. Like you we wanted to maintain the aesthetics of the wood. We looked at replacement units but rebuilding saved us about $1,000 and wasn’t hard to do. At the time we had the unit out, we also wrapped it with ½” foam board. We used duct tape to secure it to the unit. Since doing all of this, our unit now cools nicely and we can maintain about 38F even in the warmer climates. I’m not sure how much the foam helped but I figured it couldn’t hurt to increase the r-value where we could. The top of the unit is still without foam as we couldn’t get the unit back under the counter top with foam on it. Another thing that helps is to cover the hole in the bottom of the unit. We used tape but I guess a bung would work just as well. Since cold air sinks it seemed to me that it made sense to cover this. Lastly, we put a layer of foam board between the compressor unit under the fridge and the box. The compressor puts out quite a bit of heat and surely had to impact the temp of the box. We did this all at once so I can’t really tell you what part made the most difference or worked best. But, hopefully it’ll give you a few ideas. If I had to do this over again, I would opt for a larger evaporator. Hope this helps...

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

  

Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.

 

In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.

 

I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).

 

I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator........even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........

 

So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative.




Mark Erdos
 

James,

 

I don’t use Costal Climate Control anymore after having a bad experience with them. I purchased the parts at Go2Marine (cheaper bc of free shipping). The part are the same except for the condensing unit. The old unit is no longer made. The new unit is a little smaller and much more efficient. If you have the low/high Amel set up you can bypass that as the compressor is variable speed and makes a lot less noise. Here is the list of parts I used:

 

SKU            Description  Qty.

422326       Frigoboat, 160H, Horizontal Box Evaporator, with Door

422330       Frigoboat, Mechanical Thermostat for Refrigerator

422313       Frigoboat, Capri 35F, Air Cooled Condensing Unit, with Speed Board, 12/24 volt

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 11:18 PM
To: isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

 

Mark - 

Where did you source your replacement components for the refrigerator (thermostat, condenser, and compressor).  Did you use Coastal Climate Control?  What components did you use specifically (were you able to replace with exactly the same parts?).

 

Thanks,

James 

SV Soteria SM 437

On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Good job, Mark. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 15:58 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Tom,

 

We rebuilt our entire unit when last in the USA. We replace the thermostat, condenser and compressor. Like you we wanted to maintain the aesthetics of the wood. We looked at replacement units but rebuilding saved us about $1,000 and wasn’t hard to do. At the time we had the unit out, we also wrapped it with ½” foam board. We used duct tape to secure it to the unit. Since doing all of this, our unit now cools nicely and we can maintain about 38F even in the warmer climates. I’m not sure how much the foam helped but I figured it couldn’t hurt to increase the r-value where we could. The top of the unit is still without foam as we couldn’t get the unit back under the counter top with foam on it. Another thing that helps is to cover the hole in the bottom of the unit. We used tape but I guess a bung would work just as well. Since cold air sinks it seemed to me that it made sense to cover this. Lastly, we put a layer of foam board between the compressor unit under the fridge and the box. The compressor puts out quite a bit of heat and surely had to impact the temp of the box. We did this all at once so I can’t really tell you what part made the most difference or worked best. But, hopefully it’ll give you a few ideas. If I had to do this over again, I would opt for a larger evaporator. Hope this helps...

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

  

Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.

 

In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.

 

I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).

 

I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator........even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........

 

So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative.

 

 

 

James Cromie
 

This is great. Thanks for sharing Mark. 
Perhaps you’d be willing to share your private email with me- I wanted to ask some other questions.  
My email address is Jamescromie “at” yahoo dot com, and perhaps you could send me your email

Thanks. 
James


On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:45 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

James,

 

I don’t use Costal Climate Control anymore after having a bad experience with them. I purchased the parts at Go2Marine (cheaper bc of free shipping). The part are the same except for the condensing unit. The old unit is no longer made. The new unit is a little smaller and much more efficient. If you have the low/high Amel set up you can bypass that as the compressor is variable speed and makes a lot less noise. Here is the list of parts I used:

 

SKU            Description  Qty.

422326       Frigoboat, 160H, Horizontal Box Evaporator, with Door

422330       Frigoboat, Mechanical Thermostat for Refrigerator

422313       Frigoboat, Capri 35F, Air Cooled Condensing Unit, with Speed Board, 12/24 volt

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 11:18 PM
To: isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

 

Mark - 

Where did you source your replacement components for the refrigerator (thermostat, condenser, and compressor).  Did you use Coastal Climate Control?  What components did you use specifically (were you able to replace with exactly the same parts?).

 

Thanks,

James 

SV Soteria SM 437

On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Good job, Mark. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 15:58 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Tom,

 

We rebuilt our entire unit when last in the USA. We replace the thermostat, condenser and compressor. Like you we wanted to maintain the aesthetics of the wood. We looked at replacement units but rebuilding saved us about $1,000 and wasn’t hard to do. At the time we had the unit out, we also wrapped it with ½” foam board. We used duct tape to secure it to the unit. Since doing all of this, our unit now cools nicely and we can maintain about 38F even in the warmer climates. I’m not sure how much the foam helped but I figured it couldn’t hurt to increase the r-value where we could. The top of the unit is still without foam as we couldn’t get the unit back under the counter top with foam on it. Another thing that helps is to cover the hole in the bottom of the unit. We used tape but I guess a bung would work just as well. Since cold air sinks it seemed to me that it made sense to cover this. Lastly, we put a layer of foam board between the compressor unit under the fridge and the box. The compressor puts out quite a bit of heat and surely had to impact the temp of the box. We did this all at once so I can’t really tell you what part made the most difference or worked best. But, hopefully it’ll give you a few ideas. If I had to do this over again, I would opt for a larger evaporator. Hope this helps...

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

  

Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.

 

In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.

 

I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).

 

I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator........even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........

 

So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative..

 

 

 

Paul Osterberg
 

Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to the compressors.
I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259

Mark Erdos
 

Paul,

 

I did not opt for the water cooled units. I am happy with the basic air cooled unit. If I had to do it over, I might opt for the larger box evaporator but this would mean redoing the drain tray and plumbing in the unit. I am happy with the results.

 

Also, I should note the parts come pre-charged so the installation is just connecting the quick-connect fittings. No charging or Freon necessary.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 9:01 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

 

Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to the compressors.
I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Paul,

If I may point out regarding the “water cooled” units.
“Chapter 3” of the Installation and Instruction Manual
http://www.coastalclimatecontrol.com/images/PDF/Refer/Frigoboat_Manual_Rev_37.pdf
it says:
NOTE: The W35F and W50F compressors are designed to work with sea water only. They are not designed to use water from other sources, i.e. water tanks, skin tanks, or coolant pumped through secondary heat exchangers. Serious health risks and/or performance issues can occur if any form of liquid coolant delivery is used other than sea water being pumped directly into the system and then expelled back overboard.
I assume this is some lawyer statement to prevent any type of potential lawsuit should the system leak into the fresh water tank.
Personally, I would not have any issue using the fresh water tank, but wanted to point out the information.

Sincerely, Alexandre.



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/6/18, @Kerpa [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, August 6, 2018, 8:00 AM


 









Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled
compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the
fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where
the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are
cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water
tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem
to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice
from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to
the compressors.

I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet
as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice
even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer
fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change
compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259

Paul Osterberg
 

Alexandre
Thank you, yes assume legal protection, using the drinking water becoming more and more frequent as it has its advantages
Paul.

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

Out of curiosity I asked Veco (Annapolis Frigoboat/Climma distributor) about their warning to use only sea water for cooling, not tank water.  My questions are below with their answers in red. 
"Dear Veco,
I see in your Installation and Instruction Manual that you have a warning in Chapter 3 that the W35F and W50F Refrigeration Systems are designed to operate with sea water cooling only, not water from water tanks, etc. because serious health risks can occur. Frigoboat systems are designed for use with sea water only. There are no food-grade materials used, and if a condenser rupture were to occur there would be contamination of the drinking water from refrigerant and oil if the system was installed using the boat's water tanks.

I'm guessing the concern with using recirculating cooling water from a fresh water tank would be if the tank water were to heat up a lot or become insufficient, the refrigeration may not provide adequate cooling and food might spoil causing illness (and possible legal ramifications for your company). Absolutely. Also, we would rather not have the reputation of Frigoboat slighted by operators broadcasting of poor performance when in fact their systems have been installed and operated in a non-standard way.

Owner error might also allow the tank to become empty, although the system seemingly would respond as it would were a sea water feed to become clogged and no equipment damage would result. There is a temperature sensor on the condensing coil that will stop the compressor if it is seen that there is an inadequate supply of cooling water.

Can you confirm that the warning is indeed one to prevent owner error or is there actually an engineering issue with using fresh water from a tank?  That certainly seems not the issue as the system, I'm sure, will work fine in fresh water. By using recirculating water in a tank, you are adding several more steps of heat exchange. By using sea water we are always using a fresh source of water at a stable temperature. Heat travels from a higher temperature object to a lower temperature one, so for heat exchange to take place, there must be a difference in temperature between the two mediums, and the greater the difference, the more the heat exchange. The water recirculated back to the tank will be at a higher temperature than the water in the tank and so it will heat the water in the tank. The water in the tank has to be considerably warmer than its surroundings before it can dispense some of that heat, so the water in the tank will be warmer than the surroundings and the sea water. As the water in the tank gets warmer/hotter, there is less heat exchange, less efficiency, and more power is consumed due to elevated head pressures in the compressor. The Frigoboat W35 and W50 systems are designed to operate efficiently and safely with sea water at the maximum expected temperature. 
Best regards,
Craig Briggs
s/v Sangaris

I didn't word my last point very well - I meant to point out that the system doesn't care if it gets sea water or fresh water from, say, a river or in a lake. It's just a matter of them not wanting owners using tank water to avoid possible complaints, claims or the remote chance of drinking water contamination.

Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote :

Good morning Paul,

If I may point out regarding the “water cooled” units.
“Chapter 3” of the Installation and Instruction Manual
http://www.coastalclimatecontrol.com/images/PDF/Refer/Frigoboat_Manual_Rev_37.pdf
it says:
NOTE: The W35F and W50F compressors are designed to work with sea water only. They are not designed to use water from other sources, i.e. water tanks, skin tanks, or coolant pumped through secondary heat exchangers. Serious health risks and/or performance issues can occur if any form of liquid coolant delivery is used other than sea water being pumped directly into the system and then expelled back overboard.
I assume this is some lawyer statement to prevent any type of potential lawsuit should the system leak into the fresh water tank.
Personally, I would not have any issue using the fresh water tank, but wanted to point out the information.

Sincerely, Alexandre.



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/6/18, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, August 6, 2018, 8:00 AM


 









Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled
compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the
fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where
the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are
cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water
tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem
to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice
from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to
the compressors.

I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet
as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice
even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer
fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change
compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259
 

amel46met
 

I have used my water tank, on my 1983 maramu #125, for 10 year. However if I were to build the system again I would use a bronze keel cooler in the water tank. 
Tom Deasy 


On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:14 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Out of curiosity I asked Veco (Annapolis Frigoboat/Climma distributor) about their warning to use only sea water for cooling, not tank water.  My questions are below with their answers in red. 

"Dear Veco,
I see in your Installation and Instruction Manual that you have a warning in Chapter 3 that the W35F and W50F Refrigeration Systems are designed to operate with sea water cooling only, not water from water tanks, etc. because serious health risks can occur. Frigoboat systems are designed for use with sea water only. There are no food-grade materials used, and if a condenser rupture were to occur there would be contamination of the drinking water from refrigerant and oil if the system was installed using the boat's water tanks.

I'm guessing the concern with using recirculating cooling water from a fresh water tank would be if the tank water were to heat up a lot or become insufficient, the refrigeration may not provide adequate cooling and food might spoil causing illness (and possible legal ramifications for your company). Absolutely. Also, we would rather not have the reputation of Frigoboat slighted by operators broadcasting of poor performance when in fact their systems have been installed and operated in a non-standard way.

Owner error might also allow the tank to become empty, although the system seemingly would respond as it would were a sea water feed to become clogged and no equipment damage would result. There is a temperature sensor on the condensing coil that will stop the compressor if it is seen that there is an inadequate supply of cooling water.

Can you confirm that the warning is indeed one to prevent owner error or is there actually an engineering issue with using fresh water from a tank?  That certainly seems not the issue as the system, I'm sure, will work fine in fresh water. By using recirculating water in a tank, you are adding several more steps of heat exchange. By using sea water we are always using a fresh source of water at a stable temperature. Heat travels from a higher temperature object to a lower temperature one, so for heat exchange to take place, there must be a difference in temperature between the two mediums, and the greater the difference, the more the heat exchange. The water recirculated back to the tank will be at a higher temperature than the water in the tank and so it will heat the water in the tank. The water in the tank has to be considerably warmer than its surroundings before it can dispense some of that heat, so the water in the tank will be warmer than the surroundings and the sea water. As the water in the tank gets warmer/hotter, there is less heat exchange, less efficiency, and more power is consumed due to elevated head pressures in the compressor. The Frigoboat W35 and W50 systems are designed to operate efficiently and safely with sea water at the maximum expected temperature. 
Best regards,
Craig Briggs
s/v Sangaris

I didn't word my last point very well - I meant to point out that the system doesn't care if it gets sea water or fresh water from, say, a river or in a lake. It's just a matter of them not wanting owners using tank water to avoid possible complaints, claims or the remote chance of drinking water contamination.

Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote :

Good morning Paul,

If I may point out regarding the “water cooled” units.
“Chapter 3” of the Installation and Instruction Manual
http://www.coastalclimatecontrol.com/images/PDF/Refer/Frigoboat_Manual_Rev_37.pdf
it says:
NOTE: The W35F and W50F compressors are designed to work with sea water only. They are not designed to use water from other sources, i.e. water tanks, skin tanks, or coolant pumped through secondary heat exchangers. Serious health risks and/or performance issues can occur if any form of liquid coolant delivery is used other than sea water being pumped directly into the system and then expelled back overboard.
I assume this is some lawyer statement to prevent any type of potential lawsuit should the system leak into the fresh water tank.
Personally, I would not have any issue using the fresh water tank, but wanted to point out the information.

Sincerely, Alexandre.



--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/6/18, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, August 6, 2018, 8:00 AM


 









Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled
compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the
fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where
the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are
cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water
tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem
to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice
from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to
the compressors.

I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet
as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice
even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer
fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change
compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259
 

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Excellent !!!
That confirm what I/we thought!

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 8/7/18, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, August 7, 2018, 7:58 AM


 









Out of curiosity I asked Veco (Annapolis
Frigoboat/Climma distributor) about their warning to use
only sea water for cooling, not tank water.  My questions
are below with their answers in red. "Dear Veco,I see in your Installation and
Instruction Manual that you have a warning in Chapter 3 that
the W35F and W50F Refrigeration Systems are designed to
operate with sea water cooling only, not water from water
tanks, etc. because serious health risks can
occur. Frigoboat systems are designed
for use with sea water only. There are no food-grade
materials used, and if a condenser rupture were to occur
there would be contamination of the drinking water from
refrigerant and oil if the system was installed using the
boat's water tanks.

I'm guessing the concern
with using recirculating cooling water from a fresh water
tank would be if the tank water were to heat up a lot or
become insufficient, the refrigeration may not provide
adequate cooling and food might spoil causing illness (and
possible legal ramifications for your company). Absolutely. Also, we would rather not have
the reputation of Frigoboat slighted by operators
broadcasting of poor performance when in fact their systems
have been installed and operated in a non-standard
way.

Owner error might also allow the
tank to become empty, although the system seemingly would
respond as it would were a sea water feed to become clogged
and no equipment damage would result. There is a temperature sensor on the
condensing coil that will stop the compressor if it is seen
that there is an inadequate supply of cooling
water.

Can you confirm that the warning
is indeed one to prevent owner error or is there actually an
engineering issue with using fresh water from a tank?  That
certainly seems not the issue as the system, I'm sure,
will work fine in fresh water. By
using recirculating water in a tank, you are adding several
more steps of heat exchange. By using sea water we are
always using a fresh source of water at a stable
temperature. Heat travels from a higher temperature object
to a lower temperature one, so for heat exchange to take
place, there must be a difference in temperature between the
two mediums, and the greater the difference, the more the
heat exchange. The water recirculated back to the tank will
be at a higher temperature than the water in the tank and so
it will heat the water in the tank. The water in the tank
has to be considerably warmer than its surroundings before
it can dispense some of that heat, so the water in the tank
will be warmer than the surroundings and the sea water. As
the water in the tank gets warmer/hotter, there is less heat
exchange, less efficiency, and more power is consumed due to
elevated head pressures in the compressor. The Frigoboat W35
and W50 systems are designed to operate efficiently and
safely with sea water at the maximum expected
temperature. Best
regards,Craig
Briggss/v
Sangaris
I didn't word my
last point very well - I meant to point out that the system
doesn't care if it gets sea water or fresh water from,
say, a river or in a lake. It's just a matter of them
not wanting owners using tank water to avoid possible
complaints, claims or the remote chance of drinking water
contamination.
Craig

---In
amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote
:

Good morning Paul,



If I may point out regarding the “water cooled” units.


“Chapter 3” of the Installation and Instruction
Manual

http://www.coastalclimatecontrol.com/images/PDF/Refer/Frigoboat_Manual_Rev_37.pdf

it says:

NOTE: The W35F and W50F compressors are designed to work
with sea water only. They are not designed to use water from
other sources, i.e. water tanks, skin tanks, or coolant
pumped through secondary heat exchangers. Serious health
risks and/or performance issues can occur if any form of
liquid coolant delivery is used other than sea water being
pumped directly into the system and then expelled back
overboard.

I assume this is some lawyer statement to prevent any type
of potential lawsuit should the system leak into the fresh
water tank.

Personally, I would not have any issue using the fresh water
tank, but wanted to point out the information.



Sincerely, Alexandre.







--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/6/18, osterberg.paul.l@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on
galley refrigerator

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Monday, August 6, 2018, 8:00 AM





 



















Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled

compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in
the

fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer
where

the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors
are

cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water

tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No
problem

to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No
noice

from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet
to

the compressors.



I have thought of doing something about the fridge
cabinet

as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice

even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer

fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change

compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.



Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259