[Amel Yacht Owners] Anchoring in deep water in the S Pacific.


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 


 


 


Alan Leslie
 

Before considering using two anchors, everyone should read this :



Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


karkauai
 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.

  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 


 


 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

You can't use a thimble and shackle, they wont fit out of the hawse pipe. You have to do a splice onto a thimble anyway so splicing to the chain is no big deal.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Parl

On 13 August 2018 at 09:38 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.


  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice.. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 

 


 


 

 

 


 


 


karkauai
 

Oh, misunderstanding on my part.  So you leave it all connected and run the rope rode down the hawsepipe into the chain locker and drop the chain in on top of it?  ALAN said his was permanently attached, too, but I didn’t stop to think exactly what that meant.

Seems like the rode wouldn’t go in very efficiently and would fill the bottom of the chain locker. When the chain went in it wouldn’t have the divider there to encourage the chain to flake.  Sounds like a mess in the making.

I had envisioned letting all but about 5m of chain out, snubbing the chain, pulling the chain up out of the locker and attaching the rode to the end.  Reversing that on retrieval.

Either way sounds like a potential problem in the making.

I guess it will all come to be easier than it sounds, but I’ve gotta say, it makes me anxious.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

You can't use a thimble and shackle, they wont fit out of the hawse pipe. You have to do a splice onto a thimble anyway so splicing to the chain is no big deal.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Parl

On 13 August 2018 at 09:38 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.


  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice.. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 

 


 


 

 

 


 


 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 13 August 2018 at 13:36
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchoring in deep water in the S Pacific.

Hi Kent.

I've had the rope/ chain set up all the time we've owned her and it stows away perfectly.  We have 100m of each if my memory serves me.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 13 August 2018 at 10:25 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Oh, misunderstanding on my part.  So you leave it all connected and run the rope rode down the hawsepipe into the chain locker and drop the chain in on top of it?  ALAN said his was permanently attached, too, but I didn’t stop to think exactly what that meant.


Seems like the rode wouldn’t go in very efficiently and would fill the bottom of the chain locker. When the chain went in it wouldn’t have the divider there to encourage the chain to flake.  Sounds like a mess in the making.

I had envisioned letting all but about 5m of chain out, snubbing the chain, pulling the chain up out of the locker and attaching the rode to the end.  Reversing that on retrieval.

Either way sounds like a potential problem in the making.

I guess it will all come to be easier than it sounds, but I’ve gotta say, it makes me anxious.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

You can't use a thimble and shackle, they wont fit out of the hawse pipe. You have to do a splice onto a thimble anyway so splicing to the chain is no big deal.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Parl

On 13 August 2018 at 09:38 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.


  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice.. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 


 


 

 

 


 


 


 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 13 August 2018 at 10:08
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchoring in deep water in the S Pacific.

Hi again Kent, just be sure the amount of rope you pay out is say no more than 2/3 of the water depth so when there is no wind and the anchor chain is hanging straight down the rope is well clear of the bottom. You also have to be ware of coral heads or bommies. They come straight up from the bottom and to get rope wrapped around one of those would be fatal. If there are bommies present the rope you pay out must be shorter than the depth of the nearest bommie. In some atolls the coral sand is very soft and very bad holding, In that situation you are likely to be in relatively shallow water. That is where you would need your two anchor system

Regards

Danny

On 13 August 2018 at 09:38 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.


  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice.. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 

 


 


 

 

 


 


 


 


karkauai
 

Great, I’ll use the same setup.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Aug 13, 2018, at 12:12 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 13 August 2018 at 13:36
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchoring in deep water in the S Pacific.

Hi Kent.

I've had the rope/ chain set up all the time we've owned her and it stows away perfectly.  We have 100m of each if my memory serves me.

Kind Regards

Danny



karkauai
 

I’ve been reading about “bommies” Danny, it must be a royal pain if you get wrapped around one.  Can you generally see how it’s wrapped to aid in getting it free...or is it just a matter of trial and error?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 13, 2018, at 12:13 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 13 August 2018 at 10:08
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchoring in deep water in the S Pacific.

Hi again Kent, just be sure the amount of rope you pay out is say no more than 2/3 of the water depth so when there is no wind and the anchor chain is hanging straight down the rope is well clear of the bottom. You also have to be ware of coral heads or bommies. They come straight up from the bottom and to get rope wrapped around one of those would be fatal. If there are bommies present the rope you pay out must be shorter than the depth of the nearest bommie. In some atolls the coral sand is very soft and very bad holding, In that situation you are likely to be in relatively shallow water. That is where you would need your two anchor system

Regards

Danny

On 13 August 2018 at 09:38 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.


  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice.. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 

 


 


 

 

 


 


 


 


SV Perigee
 

re Danny's prior comment: "... tandem anchoring. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor."

You might try a longer length of floating line, such that the outer end is attached to the secondary anchor, with the inner end attached to the <anchor chain> inboard of the primary anchor, at a point between the shank of the primary and the windlass gypsy.  This enables the line to be more readily accessible than if it is on the anchor when resting on it's roller.  I saw this arrangement on SV Samantha, earlier this year in St Maarten; Rudi swears by this set-up for ease of use, although his set-up used 1" line between the primary and secondary anchors.  I would prefer chain, for chafe protection.

I have also been wondering if a tripping line might also be beneficial for the outer/secondary anchor.  More complexity I know, but if the secondary (outer) anchor really digs in, would this make it more difficult if not impossible to free the inner (primary) anchor?  With just a single anchor well set, especially in mud, but also in sand, we sometimes have to be very gentle to ease the anchor out, else risk damage to the windlass.  I imagine that this would become worse with an additional outboard anchor well set.

I am interested in others' experience and set-ups for the use of anchors in tandem.

David
Perigee, SM#396
Curaçao


Alan Leslie
 

Hi Kent,

Sometimes you can unwind yourself from a wrapped bommie if you know which way the boat has swung around it.
Often you need someone to go in the water to see where the chain is and provide directions for the helm to unwind it.
Worst case we ever had in Fiji we had to get a diving team...our chain was wrapped tight around two bommies and it took some time to get it off.
Every situation is different.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


greatketch@...
 


greatketch@...
 

Only one topic(*) generates more forceful arguments between sailors than anchoring.  All real cruising sailors have strong opinions about what works. So I comment with humility...

I am not a fan of tandem anchors.  To my thinking it is an idea far better in theory than in practice.  But...if I needed to for some reason, I would follow the advice in this article of Peter Smith's (designer of the Rocna anchor): https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/tandem-anchoring.php

The key takeaway for me is this quote:  "Most boaters should never have cause for tandem anchoring. Your primary anchor should be sized so that it is adequate on its own in practically all conditions – if it is not, then upgrade."

If you are lifting your anchor with an electric windlass, there seems little reason to have less than the biggest anchor you would ever use as your primary anchor on the bow. While this is not a place I like to carry extra weight, the difference between a "normal" and a "serious cruising" anchor is certainly not more than 40 or 50 pounds.

The single biggest problem with the tandem system is that I am most worried about my anchor's security during dramatic wind shifts.  This is exactly the time that the extra hardware on the bottom can be more problem-causing than problem-solving.

(*) The one more contentious topic:  "Mono or cat?"

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 




Hi David,

the length of the floating line just needs to be long enough to be easily reached and I wouldn't argue. I attach mine to the shackle on each anchor so when the primary anchor is in the roller its shackle is easily reached. Rope to attach the second anchor, no way. Is is harder to pull the primary out of mud. No. Retrieving an anchor doesn't involve pulling the anchor through the bottom material, particularly if it is well set. You have the boat directly  over the anchor and up she comes. If its well set, take up the slack with the windlass and wait for the next swell to lift it. If no swell, gently nudge forward under motor. Either way the second anchor being attached to the front wont change the retrieval.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 August 2018 at 03:30 "dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

re Danny's prior comment: "... tandem anchoring. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor."

You might try a longer length of floating line, such that the outer end is attached to the secondary anchor, with the inner end attached to the <anchor chain> inboard of the primary anchor, at a point between the shank of the primary and the windlass gypsy.  This enables the line to be more readily accessible than if it is on the anchor when resting on it's roller.  I saw this arrangement on SV Samantha, earlier this year in St Maarten; Rudi swears by this set-up for ease of use, although his set-up used 1" line between the primary and secondary anchors.  I would prefer chain, for chafe protection.

I have also been wondering if a tripping line might also be beneficial for the outer/secondary anchor.  More complexity I know, but if the secondary (outer) anchor really digs in, would this make it more difficult if not impossible to free the inner (primary) anchor?  With just a single anchor well set, especially in mud, but also in sand, we sometimes have to be very gentle to ease the anchor out, else risk damage to the windlass.  I imagine that this would become worse with an additional outboard anchor well set.

I am interested in others' experience and set-ups for the use of anchors in tandem.

David
Perigee, SM#396
Curaçao

 


 


 


 


karkauai
 

Thanks Alan, sounds like anchoring in the S Pac is going to be a challenge on many fronts.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 13, 2018, at 4:18 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,


Sometimes you can unwind yourself from a wrapped bommie if you know which way the boat has swung around it.
Often you need someone to go in the water to see where the chain is and provide directions for the helm to unwind it.
Worst case we ever had in Fiji we had to get a diving team...our chain was wrapped tight around two bommies and it took some time to get it off.
Every situation is different.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Alan Leslie
 

I'm with you Bill.
i posted the link to Rocna Pete's article a few days ago.
I an not a fan of anything that makes things complicated, especially when it comes to anchoring.
In the real world it's almost impossible to know whether tandem anchors would work any better than one good sized anchor with plenty of chain. There are just too many variables.
To compare, you'd have to have the same boats in the same place, same conditions, same anchors...and even then we all know that all anchoring spots are not the same.
How many times have we dropped the pick in one spot, pulled back on it ...no good, pick it up again and move a little to the side...perfect?
Its a debate that will continue for sure, but I much prefer one anchor, one set of issues to deal with.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Port Havannah, Vanuatu
PS what I described above about anchors not setting ? This happened to us today...dragged quite bit, picked it up, moved 20 m to the W and its stuck...1800rpm in reverse...didn't budge.


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent. I think Alan may have answered this. I have at times had my chain string zig zag through s bunch of them. Careful driving forward feeling your way rolling up the chain as you go and if you are lucky. It will come off. You are usually in super vis so you can see. I have had the chain snag impossibly at 80 feet and had to dive to free it. Also had it jammed much shallower and dive again. But don't get too stewed up about them. Given the times we anchor serious difficulty is a low %. The most dangerous is if it catches and snubs up short and a sea gets up. Needs prompt attention to pay out more chain before damage is done. Dont be too worried. You learn to be careful checking before you anchor.  Just another fun thing about cruising. Stories to tell at sun downers.

Cheers

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 August 2018 at 02:30 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I’ve been reading about “bommies” Danny, it must be a royal pain if you get wrapped around one.  Can you generally see how it’s wrapped to aid in getting it free...or is it just a matter of trial and error?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 13, 2018, at 12:13 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 13 August 2018 at 10:08
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchoring in deep water in the S Pacific.

Hi again Kent, just be sure the amount of rope you pay out is say no more than 2/3 of the water depth so when there is no wind and the anchor chain is hanging straight down the rope is well clear of the bottom. You also have to be ware of coral heads or bommies. They come straight up from the bottom and to get rope wrapped around one of those would be fatal. If there are bommies present the rope you pay out must be shorter than the depth of the nearest bommie. In some atolls the coral sand is very soft and very bad holding, In that situation you are likely to be in relatively shallow water. That is where you would need your two anchor system

Regards

Danny

On 13 August 2018 at 09:38 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Danny, great advice!  I like attaching the line to both anchors.


  I assume that with 300 ft of chain, the rope rode will be well above the bottom.  I’m calculating that in 40 meters, I’ll want a total of 42 x 3 = 126 meters or 440 ft...and that’s just 3:1 scope.  That’s a whole new universe for me!

Any reason not to connect the chain to the rode with an eye splice on a thimble and a shackle?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 12, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Kent,

I agree with Bill Rouse. In deep water your ratio can be less. One VERY important thing with chain and rode is when anchoring in coral areas your rope portion must be well clear of the bottom otherwise it will be cut by the coral. Connecting the rope to the chain is a simple splice technique. You have to share the strands through two links. They wont all fit through one. To give security make at least six tucks in the splice.. So my rode is permanently attached. Dual anchor systems. I agree with Rocna, your primary anchor should be sized to be adequate and your 40 kg is that.

However if you want two anchors down the best method is tandem. Attach 10 m of chain to the hole in the leading edge of your primary anchor and add the second anchor to that. Then take 13 metes of floating line and attach one end to each anchor. This is to facilitate retrieval. When the primary anchor is back in the roller this rope is used to pull the other in. Its floating line so it wont tangle in the chain when deployed. This tandem system is vastly superior to deploying two anchors separately. The tandem are always in line and both are always fully holding.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2018 at 08:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, guess I’ve got to devise a good way to add rode to my 300 ft of chain.  Is 250 ft of 1 inch rode on 300 ft of chain enough? That’s less than 6:1.  There was some discussion a while back, but still not comfortable with the transition from chain to rope.  I guess hooking with the snubber line, disconnecting the chain from the locker, pulling it up on deck and shackling it to the rope is about all one can do.  Sounds like a hassle.  


Is the bottom in most places amenable to a ROCNA anchor?
I have a big Fortress and a Mantus as spare anchors, but have never used them.

Does anyone have a good way to mount a spare anchor on the rail?

Have you (or anyone else) used two anchors in tandem?  The ROCNA has a place to shackle a chain to the neck, but it would be difficult to get to, and even harder to retrieve. I guess a line with a float attached to the second anchor could be retrieved with a boat hook and hauled aboard with a halyard.  My back is already complaining about hauling it aboard by hand.

Any and all advice, experiences that taught you something, hints, etc greatly appreciated!

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

the question was not to me but I have fond memories of time there (Raiatea). I spent a lot of time anchored in 27 meters (90 ft).

Kind Rgards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 


 


 


 

 

 


 


 


ngtnewington Newington
 

I have used a tandem anchor arrangement  two times in 30 years of ocean voyaging. Both times when I had to leave the boat at anchor for a month. Once at the Dar Es Salam  yacht club in Tanzania and the other time up the Guadiana river.
These were safe anchorages but seeing as the boats were left unattended I was happy with the extra work.
I would be reluctant to use the tandem setup in a less than secure anchorage as if I had to leave in  adverse circumstances it could all get a bit tricky not to mention having all my eggs in one basket. Potentially loosing two anchors.

My view is that it would be better to have an oversized anchor, Spade or Rocna type well set, one chain ready to leave in the dead of night.

Nick


On 14 Aug 2018, at 08:36, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I'm with you Bill.

i posted the link to Rocna Pete's article a few days ago.
I an not a fan of anything that makes things complicated, especially when it comes to anchoring.
In the real world it's almost impossible to know whether tandem anchors would work any better than one good sized anchor with plenty of chain. There are just too many variables.
To compare, you'd have to have the same boats in the same place, same conditions, same anchors...and even then we all know that all anchoring spots are not the same.
How many times have we dropped the pick in one spot, pulled back on it ...no good, pick it up again and move a little to the side...perfect?
Its a debate that will continue for sure, but I much prefer one anchor, one set of issues to deal with.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Port Havannah, Vanuatu
PS what I described above about anchors not setting ? This happened to us today...dragged quite bit, picked it up, moved 20 m to the W and its stuck...1800rpm in reverse...didn't budge.


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill,

I'm not a fan of anything that creates difficulty. I agree (and said in my first post on the topic) that a proper sized primary anchor is needed. However world cruisers can meet extreme circumstances and then the question is what more can I do on those rare occasions we desperately need something more. Then it comes down to either two anchors set at an angle to each other or tandem anchors. The issues with the two anchor system are legion. So the tandem system is in my opinion he one to have set up ready. In all my miles and countless anchoring I've used it only twice. However I think it foolhardy not to have a system ready. We all carry life rafts don't we. 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 August 2018 at 09:09 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Only one topic(*) generates more forceful arguments between sailors than anchoring.  All real cruising sailors have strong opinions about what works. So I comment with humility...

I am not a fan of tandem anchors.  To my thinking it is an idea far better in theory than in practice.  But...if I needed to for some reason, I would follow the advice in this article of Peter Smith's (designer of the Rocna anchor):  https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/tandem-anchoring.php

The key takeaway for me is this quote:  "Most boaters should never have cause for tandem anchoring. Your primary anchor should be sized so that it is adequate on its own in practically all conditions – if it is not, then upgrade."

If you are lifting your anchor with an electric windlass, there seems little reason to have less than the biggest anchor you would ever use as your primary anchor on the bow. While this is not a place I like to carry extra weight, the difference between a "normal" and a "serious cruising" anchor is certainly not more than 40 or 50 pounds.

The single biggest problem with the tandem system is that I am most worried about my anchor's security during dramatic wind shifts.  This is exactly the time that the extra hardware on the bottom can be more problem-causing than problem-solving.

(*) The one more contentious topic:  "Mono or cat?"

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA