[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152


Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Alan 
Great points. The elbow is very clean. But I have not looked beyond it. I will when we remove the engine. 
Thank you!  
Porter. 
A54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 16, 2018, at 2:11 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Black smoke is caused by unburnt carbon....oil burning is blue smoke.

Unburnt carbon usually indicates there is a blockage somewhere
Airfilter..you checked that
Injectors..you've done that.
Another thing could be too high back pressure in the exhaust.
Has the exhaust system been taken apart and checked to be sure it is relatively clean and free flowing?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Maskelyne Islands, Vanuatu


eric freedman
 


greatketch@...
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 


I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Alan Leslie
 

Thanks for the interesting article.
I'm glad I don't have one of those, but if engine replacement becomes necessary in the future, this could be a real issue. We have 3600 hours on our Yanmar 4JH3HTE and it runs perfectly, may it continue for a long time !!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Dean Gillies
 

Porter,
I’ve done your smoke test.
Yes, under the rapid throttle action, a puff of black smoke comes from our Volvo exhaust exactly as you describe. Not confidence inspiring! Hmmm.

I look forward to seeing other owners results of this quick test.


Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54#154


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi dean. Ive operated diesels all my life. Most not vommon rail l acknowledge. However believe I can offer something here. Overloaded diesels smoke. The throttle opening delivers more fuel than can burn at the present revolutions. The modern computer controlled systems eliminate this mostly. However, if you slam the throttle down with the prop shaft stationary there is a moment of super overload intil it gets moving,hence your  puff of smoke.

I don't think you have an issue here.

Regards

Danny

SM299

Ocean pearl

On 18 August 2018 at 21:50 "trifin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,
I’ve done your smoke test.
Yes, under the rapid throttle action, a puff of black smoke comes from our Volvo exhaust exactly as you describe. Not confidence inspiring! Hmmm.

I look forward to seeing other owners results of this quick test.

Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54#154


 


 


 

A puff of smoke on acceleration of a D3 is probably not an indication of something going wrong.

Black smoke on acceleration almost always indicates unburnt fuel. One of the  reasons for computer controlled diesel engines was to eliminate this source of pollution. When rapidly accelerating  a conventional diesel engine, it will allow more fuel in the chamber than it can burn causing black smoke. The Volvo D3 systems are supposed to limit most of this, but an initial puff is likely very normal. I know that the 100hp Yanmar Turbo without a computer will allow lots of unburnt fuel on rapid acceleration and when the AutoProp is fouled.

I also know if I floor my 1985 Mercedes Turbo Diesel, I can smoke you if you are behind me. Sometimes this can add joy to my day😀.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 4:42 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi dean. Ive operated diesels all my life. Most not vommon rail l acknowledge. However believe I can offer something here. Overloaded diesels smoke. The throttle opening delivers more fuel than can burn at the present revolutions. The modern computer controlled systems eliminate this mostly. However, if you slam the throttle down with the prop shaft stationary there is a moment of super overload intil it gets moving,hence your  puff of smoke.

I don't think you have an issue here.

Regards

Danny

SM299

Ocean pearl

On 18 August 2018 at 21:50 "trifin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,
I’ve done your smoke test.
Yes, under the rapid throttle action, a puff of black smoke comes from our Volvo exhaust exactly as you describe. Not confidence inspiring! Hmmm.

I look forward to seeing other owners results of this quick test.

Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54#154


 


 


Sv Garulfo
 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABIAmel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Alan Leslie
 

Reudi,

You should have two filters
A Racor primary filter (or 2)  ,mounted on the bulkhead and a secondary filter mounted on the engine.
The primary filter is there to filter out gross contaminants and water...it should be 30 micron or min 20 micron.
the secondary filter on the engine is to remove any fine particulate matter and should be what the engine manufacturer recommends..10 or so micron normally.

The primary filter is there really to protect the secondary filter, and if you use clean fuel you should rarely have to change the secondary filter.

Using a fine 10 or 2 micron filter in the primary will just lead to more filter changes as they will clog up more quickly.

For example Yanmar recommend a 30 micron primary and 10 or 2 micron secondary for their modern common rail engines, 

We have an ordinary old fashioned donk and use 30 micron in the primary and 10 micron in the secondary and always filter the fuel with Mr Funnel when refuelling.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437



Teun BAAS
 

Thomas,

 

I have the VOLVO D3 110 H version; which I usually run between 1150 and 1300 RPM; burning about 2.5 lph at these rpm’s.

During engine sea trial in June 2018, with 6 people on board, this is what I reported to Bill ROUSE:

 

QUOTE

 

New VOLVO is in; engine sea-trial went perfect for 1 ½ hours in windy & choppy conditions. That’s why we didn’t go out in the lagoon (35knts winds) but stayed in the harbor.

 

Top speed 9.4 but with about 2780 rpm’s. This is 200 rpm below the 3,000 rpms set for the engine.

About 7.3 at 1200 to 1300 rpm’s – this is her sweet spot.

 

 

UNQUOTE

 

This is part of Bill’s reply:

 

QUOTE

 

I would clearly accept the results you had

 

UNQUOTE

 

According to the SYDNEY tech (also services the AUSTRALIAN and NEW ZEALAND NAVY) it is not harmful for the engine to run at these RPM’s. He suggests to vary speed (increase) every 2 hours or so.

 

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT 54 #128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Aug 24, 2018   20:06:10

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 6:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 

 

 

That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 

I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

 

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 

 

 

Best,

 

 

Thomas

soon back onboard 

GARULFO

A54-122

Curaçao

 

 

 

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 

 

 

I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA


John Clark
 

Hi All,
   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

                  John
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin  


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABIAmel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Porter McRoberts
 

For how long John?  
I am thinking a double double racor would be the way to go. 
What’s the internal rail diameter on these engines? Should not the last filter be smaller that the rail?

New long block in as we speak. 

Thank you everyone for all the help. 





Porter 
Ibis A54-110 
Panama City


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 24, 2018, at 8:14 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi All,
   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

                  John
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin  


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABIAmel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA