Topics

SM Turnbuckle

Paul Osterberg
 

We plan to change the standing rigging this season when we get to Martinique. I assume the current turnbuckles are made from stainless steel and need to be replaced as well. Better material for a turnbuckle is bronze, crome or nickel plated. Then next time to change the standing rigging it should be enough to just replace the wire not the bronze turnbuckles.. Anyone having bronze turnbuckles or anyone having thought of the issue?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

Hi Paul,
If they are the original turnbuckles from ACMO, that Amel uses, they are chromed bronze, not stainless steel. Brother Joel insists the best practice is to replace all turnbuckles (& clevis pins, etc.) whenever you do the rigging. He also recommends switching to mechanical fittings like Norseman or Sta-loc, at least on the bottom ends, rather than the swaged fittings that Amel/ACMO used originally. He's got a point.
Cheers, Craig SN68

Paul Osterberg
 

I asked my Insurer Y Yacht about rigg failure and only replacing the wire and not the turnbuckle. The answer was

 Rig failures on Amels are not a serious problem and your plans for changing the standing rigging  are perfectly acceptable.

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

Hi Paul,


Let's see if I've got this about right - the underwriters and bean counters think that statistically the financial risk to their company of old turnbuckles failing is low enough that they'll take it on, although they do want you to replace the wires. 


Will they be crewing with you on your offshore passages?


I kinda think brother Joel still has a point. And I recall the turnbuckles were a relatively small portion of the total rigging cost.


Then again, we lost a mizzen forward lower while coastal cruising off Sicily and, other than the loud crack scaring the livin' bejezus out of us, it in no way jeopardized the boat. It was the wire breaking at the lower swage on the original 18 year old ACMO rigging. We patched it and continued our season, but did replace all rigging (and turnbuckles) that winter.


Cheers,  Craig SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote :


I asked my Insurer Y Yacht about rigg failure and only replacing the wire and not the turnbuckle. The answer wasdo 

 Rig failures on Amels are not a serious problem and your plans for changing the standing rigging  are perfectly acceptable.

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

We plan to change the standing rigging this season when we get to Martinique. I assume the current turnbuckles are made from stainless steel and need to be replaced as well. Better material for a turnbuckle is bronze, crome or nickel plated. Then next time to change the standing rigging it should be enough to just replace the wire not the bronze turnbuckles.. Anyone having bronze turnbuckles or anyone having thought of the issue?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 

Hi Paul,

If they are the original turnbuckles from ACMO, that Amel uses, they are chromed bronze, not stainless steel. Brother Joel insists the best practice is to replace all turnbuckles (& clevis pins, etc.) whenever you do the rigging. He also recommends switching to mechanical fittings like Norseman or Sta-loc, at least on the bottom ends, rather than the swaged fittings that Amel/ACMO used originally. He's got a point.

Cheers, Craig SN68

John Clark
 

While this is a tad late to the discussion, yes the ACMO turnbuckles are chrome plated bronze....and that chrome plating is my concern.  I had Caribe Greement in Martinique replace Annie's rigging in 2017.  Shortly afterward the chrome on the turnbuckles began to look weathered even though we rinsed them and kept them clean.  Here is a picture of the main mast backstay turnbuckle, the one in the cockpit.  This one is out of the weather and the chrome is pretty much done.  Has anyone else had this issue?  


John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Water Island USVI
  

Gary Silver
 

Hi John:

5 years ago I replaced the standing rigging on my SM Hull #335 using an ACMO supplied "kit".  ACMO was a pleasure to work with, shipped promptly, packaged and handled the supplied materials well, and the rigging fit perfectly.  However, the quality of this kit did not match the original ACMO rigging that was on the boat when we purchased her new in 2001.  That original Chrome was pristine and shinny nearly to the end of it's 15 years before we replaced the standing rigging.  Also, I never had any rust on the SS wire of the shrouds and stays until that 2015 replacement.  

When the ACMO replacement kit came, we noticed that some of the chrome seemed "thin" and there was scoring on some of the swages from either a dirty or damaged swaging tool used by ACMO.  The replacement was completed as we didn't have much choice in our schedule and the riggers assured me these were only cosmetic issues, not structural.  The wire cable has been rusting ever since, this despite my extra efforts to hose down the cable up to half the mast height.  There isn't any pitting that I can see using 10 X magnification (aviation standard) of the cable, just a continual patina of rust that runs down and stains things if not kept up with.  The chrome plating on the turnbuckles has mostly failed in that the turnbuckles appear dull and appear similar or worse than your picture.  

I know enough about metallurgy to know that it is partially science and a lot of "art".  I can only surmise that ACMO's supplier's metallurgy is suspect.  There is no excuse for the scoring on the swages, that is just poor workmanship and or poor quality control.   I have been tempted to call-out ACMO on these issues but have convinced myself that doing so would be fruitless and that "it is only cosmetic and not structural".  When it comes time to re-rig however, I will seriously consider going with a different vendor although there are pitfalls of doing so.  Perhaps I should have been more pro-active with ACMO when I last re-rigged.  I dislike those (like me in this case) that complain and don't do anything about it.  If I were to re-rig with ACMO I would include a contractural stipulation that receipt of the materials and final payment would be based upon inspection for quality. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico

karkauai
 

Hi John,
Like Gary, the chrome on my original rigging looked like new when I had her re-rigged at 13 years old. The new rigging  was from a well-respected company in England (sorry, I don't remember the name) that builds rigging for megayachts. When the chrome started failing on the turnbuckles after 3 years, I had it inspected by Annapolis rigging. They confirmed that it was only cosmetic. They also contacted the supplier who confirmed that they had had a bad batch of chrome that year. Unfortunately, it was out of warranty and they weren't willing to do any kind of refund.
I had a bronze turnbuckle machined locally which was not chromed. It actually looks better than the chromed turnbuckles.

Things are beginning to open up in Maryland now and Iris is starting her charter season next weekend ..with masks and as much "distancing" as possible. If all goes well with her new captains and crew, we hope to e sailing up to Maiy for July and Aug.  I hope you will be able to start moving again soon. What are your plans?
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243
St Michaels, MD

On May 16, 2020 9:55 AM, John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
While this is a tad late to the discussion, yes the ACMO turnbuckles are chrome plated bronze....and that chrome plating is my concern.  I had Caribe Greement in Martinique replace Annie's rigging in 2017.  Shortly afterward the chrome on the turnbuckles began to look weathered even though we rinsed them and kept them clean.  Here is a picture of the main mast backstay turnbuckle, the one in the cockpit.  This one is out of the weather and the chrome is pretty much done.  Has anyone else had this issue?  


John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Water Island USVI
  

Kaplan,Andre
 




On May 17, 2020, at 8:51 AM, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***
Hi John,
Like Gary, the chrome on my original rigging looked like new when I had her re-rigged at 13 years old. The new rigging  was from a well-respected company in England (sorry, I don't remember the name) that builds rigging for megayachts. When the chrome started failing on the turnbuckles after 3 years, I had it inspected by Annapolis rigging. They confirmed that it was only cosmetic. They also contacted the supplier who confirmed that they had had a bad batch of chrome that year. Unfortunately, it was out of warranty and they weren't willing to do any kind of refund.
I had a bronze turnbuckle machined locally which was not chromed. It actually looks better than the chromed turnbuckles.

Things are beginning to open up in Maryland now and Iris is starting her charter season next weekend ..with masks and as much "distancing" as possible. If all goes well with her new captains and crew, we hope to e sailing up to Maiy for July and Aug.  I hope you will be able to start moving again soon. What are your plans?
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243
St Michaels, MD
On May 16, 2020 9:55 AM, John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
While this is a tad late to the discussion, yes the ACMO turnbuckles are chrome plated bronze....and that chrome plating is my concern.  I had Caribe Greement in Martinique replace Annie's rigging in 2017.  Shortly afterward the chrome on the turnbuckles began to look weathered even though we rinsed them and kept them clean.  Here is a picture of the main mast backstay turnbuckle, the one in the cockpit.  This one is out of the weather and the chrome is pretty much done.  Has anyone else had this issue?  


John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Water Island USVI
  

John Clark
 

Thanks guys.  I wrote to ACMO a few days ago.  They replied today requesting a photo.  We'll see what they say.  

Regards,  John

SV Annie SM37
Water Island USVI

On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 10:26 AM Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:



On May 17, 2020, at 8:51 AM, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***
Hi John,
Like Gary, the chrome on my original rigging looked like new when I had her re-rigged at 13 years old. The new rigging  was from a well-respected company in England (sorry, I don't remember the name) that builds rigging for megayachts. When the chrome started failing on the turnbuckles after 3 years, I had it inspected by Annapolis rigging. They confirmed that it was only cosmetic. They also contacted the supplier who confirmed that they had had a bad batch of chrome that year. Unfortunately, it was out of warranty and they weren't willing to do any kind of refund.
I had a bronze turnbuckle machined locally which was not chromed. It actually looks better than the chromed turnbuckles.

Things are beginning to open up in Maryland now and Iris is starting her charter season next weekend ..with masks and as much "distancing" as possible. If all goes well with her new captains and crew, we hope to e sailing up to Maiy for July and Aug.  I hope you will be able to start moving again soon. What are your plans?
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243
St Michaels, MD
On May 16, 2020 9:55 AM, John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
While this is a tad late to the discussion, yes the ACMO turnbuckles are chrome plated bronze....and that chrome plating is my concern.  I had Caribe Greement in Martinique replace Annie's rigging in 2017.  Shortly afterward the chrome on the turnbuckles began to look weathered even though we rinsed them and kept them clean.  Here is a picture of the main mast backstay turnbuckle, the one in the cockpit.  This one is out of the weather and the chrome is pretty much done.  Has anyone else had this issue?  


John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Water Island USVI
  

John Clark
 

Gary et al,
   I guess persistence pays off.  I have been in contact with ACMO and after several rounds of photos and engineer directed attempts to "clean" the chrome,  they have agreed to send me replacement turnbuckles provided I send them the ones with the defective chroming for analysis.  We are finalizing the shipping arrangements.  So Gary if you are having the same issue perhaps it is worth it to give them a call.     
       Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Water Island, USVI
  

 

I would urge everyone to continue to support ACMO. Apparently they received a bad batch of turnbuckles from their supplier. It happens to the best.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 11:19 AM John Clark via groups.io <biohead=rocketmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Gary et al,
   I guess persistence pays off.  I have been in contact with ACMO and after several rounds of photos and engineer directed attempts to "clean" the chrome,  they have agreed to send me replacement turnbuckles provided I send them the ones with the defective chroming for analysis.  We are finalizing the shipping arrangements.  So Gary if you are having the same issue perhaps it is worth it to give them a call.     
       Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Water Island, USVI
  

Gary Silver
 

Hi John:
 
Thanks for your work on this.  I will next be aboard on 4 June 2020 and will initiate some photo exchanges with ACMO.  What was involved with, "engineer directed attempts to "clean" the chrome".  Did they specify how quickly you had to return the removed turnbuckles?  Just going on the hard the end of June and not sure I could get the new and swap out things in time.

Again, thanks for the heads up.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico