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Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

 
Edited

Scott,

I understand that you are saying when the MASS switch is moved to "+"  (positive) the light turns ON.  Correct?

This means that there is a connection between 24VDC Positive and Bonding. When a pump is involved it is almost always because a pump seal has failed, allowing water to penetrate and cause a connection between bonding and positive 24VDC. (If the light comes ON when the switch is in the Negative position, the connection is between Negative and Bonding,). Saltwater creates a stronger connection than freshwater.

In your situation, most likely saltwater has probably caused this "connection" between bonding and 24VAC Positive. I think the first place that I would look very closely is the ethernet type connection between the pump and the optional electronic monitor (male & female). I believe you will find the fault there. Clean the connection(s) with freshwater, then alcohol.  Then next, I would open the pump electrical connections. What I would look for is salt crystals. Remember, these could be microscopic, especially with ethernet connections (male & female). Let me know what you find.

Regarding the function of the 24V panel light, Marco owes me an explanation. I asked for this some time ago. I will email them again today and will post the answer to the group.



Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019, 8:41 PM Scott Nguyen <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Bill,

Slight typo - I had a small leak from the waterMAKER hoses so some salt water got on the Marco pump.

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 10:32 PM Scott Nguyen <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Bill,

As you now, I'm using the Marco UP6/E pump for domestic water and have been doing so for almost 6 months now. I regularly check the Mass- and Mass+ switch on my A54 to ensure no electrical leaks.

This evening, I checked and got a Mass+ light, clear and bright. Luckily, I was able to quickly isolate it by turning off the freshwater water pump on the 24v circuit breaker panel. 

As you may recall, we had some issues with the smart sensor positive lead (between smart sensor and pump itself) keeping the 24v panel freshwater pump light on permanently. We couldn't figure it out so I just moved on and dealt with the 24v panel freshwater pump light being on all the time. To test to see if this was causing the Mass+ fault, I cut the wire. The 24v panel freshwater pump light obviously is no longer on, but the Mass+ light remained.

The only way I could get rid of the Mass+ light was remove the bonding wire from the pump body. Do you know what may cause the Marco pump to all of the sudden create continuity between + and the pump body? 

I had a small leak from the waterpump hoses so some salt water got on the Marco pump, but I can't imagine that causes the pump to be + energized? 

What would you do in my position? Thanks!

-Scott

 

Scott,

Marco says, "No, we did not have a way to suggest wiring, the only option we have available is the PCS for the pump."

I believe that one of the wires inside the ethernet cable from the pump is probably energised when the pump is ON (RUNNING) and is not when the pump is OFF (NOT RUNNING).

If I am correct, connecting a RJ45 Female Ethernet receptacle to that ethernet male and choosing the correct wire will get you what we want. I am not suggesting that you experiment, but if I had bought the pump without the PCS, I would probably experiment with a voltmeter.
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Best,
 
Bill Rouse
Yacht School  
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Brent Cameron
 

Bill, I had a look at the manuals for the UP6/E and MASS+ and the associated PCS, and it is clear from the pictures of the PCS circuit board that the RJ11 (phone not ethernet) jack is sending digital signals that are being picked up by a small Arduino CPU and translated for control purposes so there would be no easy way to tap into that to get a run light connected.  The reason I’m interested in this is that I ran into a similar problem on a friend's Amel (a Super Maramu) using a different pump.  It seemed  that the original Amel pump had a wire that was energized with 24V when the pump Motor was on but the new (Jabsco) pump didn’t have a provision for that.  

It could be handled fairly simply by putting a normally open relay in the circuit that provides power to the motor that would close the relay upon power being applied to the motor.  The controlled side of the relay could be wired from a 24V source to the light and back to the supply side ground.  This way, when ever the motor was energized, the relay would close, allowing 24V to turn on the light.  On the Jabsco, that was relatively easy as the power and the energized motor wires were easily accessible but you’d still need to put the whole contraption into a watertight box so wouldn’t necessarily be cheap - and introduces another failure point. That said, on this particular pump, you’d have to tap into the circuit that is between the pump controller and the pump motor to power the relay which would probably mean opening the case, so I’d probably just spring $90 for the PCS and be done with it as it provides a lot more information than just on/off.

It does look like a fine pump though.  

Brent Cameron, Future SM2K Owner

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Brent Cameron

Future Super Maramu 2000 Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada

Scott SV Tengah
 

That's right, the MASS light is lit up when I go to the "+" side. There is 25-26v if I touch one multimeter lead to the pump body and the other to battery negative. 

Currently I've disconnected the bonding wire and of course, the light went out. Once we go to the boatyard for unrelated items in the future, I'll investigate further. With fresh water going through it, I presume not having the bonding wire connected is likely harmless?

Brent - I have tried to connect a wire to the Amel 24v panel freshwater pump light to the red wire (positive) AFTER the pump controller, so between the pump controller and the pump motor. On the UP6/E it's external, so easy to tap into that circuit. For some reason that wire is always energized, even when the pump isn't running. I guess when the controller doesn't want the pump to run, it puts out enough current to light up the Amel 24v panel light, but not enough to run the pump.