Topics

Maramu anchor and chain suggestions


James Alton
 

Hello Maramu owners,

I am not at my boat currently so need some help. Can Maramu owners suggest modern anchors that are known to fit the original Amel anchor rollers on the Maramu? I would like to upgrade from the original Bugel anchor to something with a bit better holding. The Mantus, Spade and the Rocna are of interest to me. I am concerned about the tendency of the anchor to strike the bow when being stowed and how well the anchor stows in the original Amel hardware.

I am also planing to increase the chain length to at least 100 meters. Has anyone switched to high strength (I believe it is grade 80?) 8mm chain to help keep the weight and the chain piles down as compared to the 10mm? I am not concerned about not being able to regalvanize the chain which I understand can weaken the grade 80.

Short term cruising will be Croatia and Greece. Hope to be in the Pacific in 4-5 years and I seem to recall suggestions to consider even more than 100 meters of chain?

Thanks for any insight and suggestions.

James

SV Sueno
Maramu #220


@Sioned
 

Hi James,

I am running a 33kg Rocna on my Maramu #148 and it fits perfectly:



Never had problems with the anchor dangling to the hull (except for the few occasion when I forgot to haul it in completely after cleaning it and increasing speed to over 3.5 kn).

As for the chain, you shout be aware that with 100m you will have to sort out the chain in the locker when pulling it in, as it will pile up. Regularly my 100m chain will block on the last 10-20m if I do not deal with the pile in the locker in time.

Either stick to 80m or use (very expensive - you need chrome duplex steel in the warmer waters) stainless steel chain. I wouldn't recommend switching to 8mm chain even if it maybe stronger than standard 10mm chain. True, you save on weight, but you also loose the weight where you need it, in the water.

Michael Konz, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


Ric <ric@...>
 

I added a a port chain access to my Santorin and moved much of bitter end (150’ of 325’) to port.  Helps with our smaller lockers. 
Bali Hai SN 24
Annapolis 

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc

No employee or agent is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc without express written confirmation by a Officer of the Corporation

On Mar 10, 2019, at 10:00 AM, "amel@..." <amel@...> wrote:

Hi James,

I am running a 33kg Rocna on my Maramu #148 and it fits perfectly:

<rocna2018.png>

Never had problems with the anchor dangling to the hull (except for the few occasion when I forgot to haul it in completely after cleaning it and increasing speed to over 3.5 kn).

As for the chain, you shout be aware that with 100m you will have to sort out the chain in the locker when pulling it in, as it will pile up. Regularly my 100m chain will block on the last 10-20m if I do not deal with the pile in the locker in time.

Either stick to 80m or use (very expensive - you need chrome duplex steel in the warmer waters) stainless steel chain. I wouldn't recommend switching to 8mm chain even if it maybe stronger than standard 10mm chain. True, you save on weight, but you also loose the weight where you need it, in the water.

Michael Konz, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


James Alton
 

Michael,

   Thanks a lot for your help.  The 33kg Rocna does look like it is a great fit for the stock Amel anchor handling gear as you indicated and also shown in your photo.  The Rocna looks like a really strong anchor, especially the shank.  How do you find the holding of this anchor for your Maramu?  

   Has anyone used the Mantus 39kg or 48kg on their Maramu?  The Mantus appears to fit the SM2000 pretty well but I don’t know how much of a difference there between the Amel anchor handlers of these two models.  The reviews of this anchor look very positive so any comments about the Mantus positive or negative would be appreciated.

   It is really helpful to know about the anchor locker limits for rode length in order to prevent jamming.  I think that will limit the chain to no more than the 80m of chain that you suggested if I go with the 10mm size.  I am guessing that the 100m of the 8mm chain would probably fit without jamming?  I like the larger links of the 10mm since this allows  splicing up to 7/8” nylon direct to the chain.  

   I am guessing that you are saying that 100m  of the stainless 10mm  should work without jamming because it has less of a tendency to pile up due to the smoother links.  I have not used a stainless anchor chain before but having seen and experienced so many corrosion related failures in stainless over the years that without learning more about the stainless option I would tend to be more comfortable with the galvanized steel. 

Thanks again for the help!

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220



   

On Mar 10, 2019, at 10:01 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

I am running a 33kg Rocna on my Maramu #148 and it fits perfectly:

<rocna2018.png>

Never had problems with the anchor dangling to the hull (except for the few occasion when I forgot to haul it in completely after cleaning it and increasing speed to over 3.5 kn).

As for the chain, you shout be aware that with 100m you will have to sort out the chain in the locker when pulling it in, as it will pile up. Regularly my 100m chain will block on the last 10-20m if I do not deal with the pile in the locker in time.

Either stick to 80m or use (very expensive - you need chrome duplex steel in the warmer waters) stainless steel chain. I wouldn't recommend switching to 8mm chain even if it maybe stronger than standard 10mm chain. True, you save on weight, but you also loose the weight where you need it, in the water.

Michael Konz, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


@Sioned
 

Hi James,

in my experience the Rocna has excellent holding power. I weathered the Medicane in Greece last October with this Anchor (45+ kn winds for several hours) and also used it on a couple of occasion with similar wind speeds.
It sets quite fast within 1-2 m of the drop point. It has some problems on weed, but so has nearly every other anchor.

Yes, I suggested that a stainless steel chain has a much better tendency to stow itself because it is more "slick". But as you pointed out, stainles steel is not stainless steel. While in cold waters like Northern Europe you may do ok with AISI 316 (1.4401) quality for a while (1.4571 would be better if you anchor often), in the Med and in tropical regions the only material you can use for any prolonged perios without corrosion problems is 1.4462 Chrome Duplex.
Unfortunately it has a price tag 4 times the one of galvanized steel - which did keep me away from it so far ;)


James Alton
 

Michael,

  Thanks for sharing your experience with the Rocna and for the insight on the Chrome Duplex, I had never heard of it until your post.  From the research I have done to date it appears that the Rocna would be a big step up in holding from my original Buegel anchor and it is well proven.   The Mantus is an anchor of interest to me as well, mostly because it seems to be unusually reliable in resetting.   It can of course be hard to separate the hype from fact so I am still pondering…   I am concerned a bit about how light the shank is on the Mantus. 

  I am really hoping to hear from another Maramu owner that has used the Mantus to know for sure if it would even fit my boat before I make my final decision but I understand that this anchor has not been around all that long so maybe no one has tried it yet.  The side profile and angle of the plough portion of the anchor is very similar to the Rocna which looks encouraging.  The shank is longer in the sizes I am looking at but I think that there should be enough deck space.   I have seen the Mantus on a few Super Maramus and they appear to fit pretty well.  If anyone with a Super Maramu would like to comment on what they think of this anchor on their Amel I would sure appreciate the input.

Best,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 10, 2019, at 11:31 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

in my experience the Rocna has excellent holding power. I weathered the Medicane in Greece last October with this Anchor (45+ kn winds for several hours) and also used it on a couple of occasion with similar wind speeds.
It sets quite fast within 1-2 m of the drop point. It has some problems on weed, but so has nearly every other anchor.

Yes, I suggested that a stainless steel chain has a much better tendency to stow itself because it is more "slick". But as you pointed out, stainles steel is not stainless steel. While in cold waters like Northern Europe you may do ok with AISI 316 (1.4401) quality for a while (1.4571 would be better if you anchor often), in the Med and in tropical regions the only material you can use for any prolonged perios without corrosion problems is 1.4462 Chrome Duplex.
Unfortunately it has a price tag 4 times the one of galvanized steel - which did keep me away from it so far ;)



amelforme
 

Further recollection recalls the fact that the girls used rather hard rollers instead of brushes. If you think about the configuration, a drip or mistake was pretty easy to correct soon after the fact. With the rollers,proper gel coat loading and perfect pressure
application were essential.
JOEL F. POTTER
CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
Office 954-462-5869 

On Mar 10, 2019, at 5:11 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Michael,

  Thanks for sharing your experience with the Rocna and for the insight on the Chrome Duplex, I had never heard of it until your post.  From the research I have done to date it appears that the Rocna would be a big step up in holding from my original Buegel anchor and it is well proven.   The Mantus is an anchor of interest to me as well, mostly because it seems to be unusually reliable in resetting.   It can of course be hard to separate the hype from fact so I am still pondering…   I am concerned a bit about how light the shank is on the Mantus. 

  I am really hoping to hear from another Maramu owner that has used the Mantus to know for sure if it would even fit my boat before I make my final decision but I understand that this anchor has not been around all that long so maybe no one has tried it yet.  The side profile and angle of the plough portion of the anchor is very similar to the Rocna which looks encouraging.  The shank is longer in the sizes I am looking at but I think that there should be enough deck space.   I have seen the Mantus on a few Super Maramus and they appear to fit pretty well.  If anyone with a Super Maramu would like to comment on what they think of this anchor on their Amel I would sure appreciate the input.

Best,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 10, 2019, at 11:31 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

in my experience the Rocna has excellent holding power. I weathered the Medicane in Greece last October with this Anchor (45+ kn winds for several hours) and also used it on a couple of occasion with similar wind speeds.
It sets quite fast within 1-2 m of the drop point. It has some problems on weed, but so has nearly every other anchor.

Yes, I suggested that a stainless steel chain has a much better tendency to stow itself because it is more "slick". But as you pointed out, stainles steel is not stainless steel. While in cold waters like Northern Europe you may do ok with AISI 316 (1.4401) quality for a while (1.4571 would be better if you anchor often), in the Med and in tropical regions the only material you can use for any prolonged perios without corrosion problems is 1.4462 Chrome Duplex.
Unfortunately it has a price tag 4 times the one of galvanized steel - which did keep me away from it so far ;)



Craig Briggs
 

James,
Can't comment on the fit of the Mantus on a Maramu - I have one on my Santorin and it's been great. Mantus has a schematic of their anchors on their website - I down loaded that and did a mock-up with cardboard to be sure it would fit the bow roller. It is fine and has about 1" of gap between the tip of the fluke and the stem - it has never hit the fiberglass while being raised.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Gregory Shea
 

James,
I have a 20 kg Spade on my Sharki. Works great in sand, useless in (Med) weed. I am taking a 25 kg Mantus with me next month. I hope it can get through the weed because that would really open up Med anchorages. I used the template on the Mantus website to size it on the roller. It's a bit hokey but better than nothing.
Will report back but that may be too late for you.

Greg Shea
Sharki 133 Cap des iles
In eastern Greece for 2019


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:11:13 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maramu anchor and chain suggestions
 
Michael,

  Thanks for sharing your experience with the Rocna and for the insight on the Chrome Duplex, I had never heard of it until your post.  From the research I have done to date it appears that the Rocna would be a big step up in holding from my original Buegel anchor and it is well proven.   The Mantus is an anchor of interest to me as well, mostly because it seems to be unusually reliable in resetting.   It can of course be hard to separate the hype from fact so I am still pondering…   I am concerned a bit about how light the shank is on the Mantus. 

  I am really hoping to hear from another Maramu owner that has used the Mantus to know for sure if it would even fit my boat before I make my final decision but I understand that this anchor has not been around all that long so maybe no one has tried it yet.  The side profile and angle of the plough portion of the anchor is very similar to the Rocna which looks encouraging.  The shank is longer in the sizes I am looking at but I think that there should be enough deck space.   I have seen the Mantus on a few Super Maramus and they appear to fit pretty well.  If anyone with a Super Maramu would like to comment on what they think of this anchor on their Amel I would sure appreciate the input.

Best,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 10, 2019, at 11:31 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

in my experience the Rocna has excellent holding power. I weathered the Medicane in Greece last October with this Anchor (45+ kn winds for several hours) and also used it on a couple of occasion with similar wind speeds.
It sets quite fast within 1-2 m of the drop point. It has some problems on weed, but so has nearly every other anchor.

Yes, I suggested that a stainless steel chain has a much better tendency to stow itself because it is more "slick". But as you pointed out, stainles steel is not stainless steel. While in cold waters like Northern Europe you may do ok with AISI 316 (1.4401) quality for a while (1.4571 would be better if you anchor often), in the Med and in tropical regions the only material you can use for any prolonged perios without corrosion problems is 1.4462 Chrome Duplex.
Unfortunately it has a price tag 4 times the one of galvanized steel - which did keep me away from it so far ;)



James Alton
 

Greg,

   Thanks for your input.  I don’t have to order my anchor right away so I will look forward to hearing your report.   It seems from my research so far that the Mantus should be good in weed,  I hope so too.   The areas of the Med. that we have sailed so far  (Sardinia, Sicily,  Tunisia)  all had sandy areas that we could anchor in amongst the weed.  Do you think that there is more weed in the Med as you go further East?  Thanks for letting me know that the Spade is not working in the Med. weed.  It does not appear that the Spade will fit the Amel anchor hardware either so I think I will take that option off of the list.  We hope to be in Eastern Greece and perhaps Turkey next season, it would be great to hear about some of your travels,  perhaps we can chat some via email?

Best,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 10, 2019, at 11:12 PM, Gregory Shea <gmshea@...> wrote:

James,
I have a 20 kg Spade on my Sharki. Works great in sand, useless in (Med) weed. I am taking a 25 kg Mantus with me next month. I hope it can get through the weed because that would really open up Med anchorages. I used the template on the Mantus website to size it on the roller. It's a bit hokey but better than nothing.
Will report back but that may be too late for you.

Greg Shea
Sharki 133 Cap des iles
In eastern Greece for 2019

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:11:13 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maramu anchor and chain suggestions
 
Michael,

  Thanks for sharing your experience with the Rocna and for the insight on the Chrome Duplex, I had never heard of it until your post.  From the research I have done to date it appears that the Rocna would be a big step up in holding from my original Buegel anchor and it is well proven.   The Mantus is an anchor of interest to me as well, mostly because it seems to be unusually reliable in resetting.   It can of course be hard to separate the hype from fact so I am still pondering…   I am concerned a bit about how light the shank is on the Mantus. 

  I am really hoping to hear from another Maramu owner that has used the Mantus to know for sure if it would even fit my boat before I make my final decision but I understand that this anchor has not been around all that long so maybe no one has tried it yet.  The side profile and angle of the plough portion of the anchor is very similar to the Rocna which looks encouraging.  The shank is longer in the sizes I am looking at but I think that there should be enough deck space.   I have seen the Mantus on a few Super Maramus and they appear to fit pretty well.  If anyone with a Super Maramu would like to comment on what they think of this anchor on their Amel I would sure appreciate the input.

Best,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 10, 2019, at 11:31 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

in my experience the Rocna has excellent holding power. I weathered the Medicane in Greece last October with this Anchor (45+ kn winds for several hours) and also used it on a couple of occasion with similar wind speeds.
It sets quite fast within 1-2 m of the drop point. It has some problems on weed, but so has nearly every other anchor.

Yes, I suggested that a stainless steel chain has a much better tendency to stow itself because it is more "slick". But as you pointed out, stainles steel is not stainless steel. While in cold waters like Northern Europe you may do ok with AISI 316 (1.4401) quality for a while (1.4571 would be better if you anchor often), in the Med and in tropical regions the only material you can use for any prolonged perios without corrosion problems is 1.4462 Chrome Duplex.
Unfortunately it has a price tag 4 times the one of galvanized steel - which did keep me away from it so far ;)




islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

James

Apology, I cannot assist with the Maramu specific anchor fit question, but would say we have been very happy with our Rocna 40kg. Now more than half the way around the world, it has only ever dragged once in the Maldives on rock when we stopped briefly for an hour to refuel in Gan and did not put enough chain out, nor pull back on it.

If the Rocna 33 fits your bow that is what I would fit. We had one on our last boat (Island Packet 40) and it was perfect

On the question of length, I would agree that 100m instead of the standard 80m would be a good idea. We also want to upgrade to 100m or 110m x 10mm chain now before heading over the Pacific. I personally would not go down to 8mm.

Does anyone know of a good quality (Well priced!) chain supplier here in the Caribbean?? We are in BVI'S now, and headed to St Martin next before Bonaire and Panama..

Cheers
Colin & Lauren
SV Island Pearl II
Peter Island, BVI'S




On Sat, 9 Mar. 2019, 10:34 James Alton via Groups.Io, <lokiyawl2=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Maramu owners,

   I am not at my boat currently so need some help.  Can Maramu owners suggest modern anchors that are known to fit the original Amel anchor rollers on the Maramu?  I would like to upgrade from the original Bugel anchor to something with a bit better holding.  The Mantus,  Spade and the Rocna are of interest to me.    I am concerned about the tendency of the anchor to strike the bow when being stowed and how well the anchor stows in the original Amel hardware.

   I am also planing to increase the chain length to at least 100 meters.  Has anyone switched to high strength (I believe it is grade 80?) 8mm chain to help keep the weight and the chain piles down as compared to the 10mm?  I am not concerned about not being able to regalvanize the chain which I understand can weaken the grade 80.

   Short term cruising will be Croatia and Greece.  Hope to be in the Pacific in 4-5 years and I seem to recall suggestions to consider even more than 100 meters of chain?   

Thanks for any insight and suggestions.

James

SV Sueno
Maramu #220



Gary Silver
 

Colin and Lauren:

I know of several people who have had their chain done by Buzz Parlato of Lighthouse Marine in St. Thomas. Cell 340-334-3117, email lighthouse at islands dot vi.     Evidently you specify the chain you want, go bow in to a slip in Crown Bay Marina, at Charlotte Amalie,  they come on the dock with the chain, strip your old chain, load the new chain, and haul away your old chain.  Those I have heard from say it is seamless and easy.  Once I calculated the weight of 80 meters of 10 mm chain and it seems like it was something like 800 lbs. so doing the job myself is something I wasn't looking forward to.  I haven't used these folks personally but I think Joe Nance did. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Rico


Gary Silver
 

James:

I have had a Spade anchor on Liahona (Amel SM 2000) for about 8 years;  I can't recall the size (weight) I bought but it is roughly the equivalent size of the SS CQG anchor the boat came new with.  It fits the bow roller well.  I will try and find a picture to post.  This Spade sets the first time every time everywhere I have been in the Caribbean.  The only time it drug was when I hooked an underwater cable and it slid along the cable. The original CQR anchor that came with the boat was pretty, never rusted etc but it was a nightmare to set in the same places.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico
 


@Sioned
 

Hi James,

while there are some anchorages in Greece where weed can make it a bit of a problem to anchor on first attempt, there are usually enough sandy patches among the weed where you can drop your anchor. Most of the time the water is clear enough to spot them easily. And where the water is too murky you don't have to fight weed in my experience. And for the last four years in Greece I had never my anchor slip after it dug in - unless someone pulled it out with his anchor, which will eventually happen in a harbour, as moorings with lazy lines are rare in Greece.

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


James Alton
 

Michael,

   This is great information, thanks!  I am comfortable with the Med. mooring using the lazy lines but laying the anchor and backing down will be new.  I currently only have 120’ of chain on the boat so I will be ordering new chain with the anchor.  How much chain would you suggest I carry for harbour moorings in Greece?
    We are carrying a chain hook which will hopefully help with crossed lines or snagged anchors and also some kink free floaty line for running a long stern line ashore when needed.  Thanks for all of your helpful suggestions!   If we cross paths, the beer or wine is on me! 

Best,

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Mar 12, 2019, at 6:27 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

while there are some anchorages in Greece where weed can make it a bit of a problem to anchor on first attempt, there are usually enough sandy patches among the weed where you can drop your anchor. Most of the time the water is clear enough to spot them easily. And where the water is too murky you don't have to fight weed in my experience. And for the last four years in Greece I had never my anchor slip after it dug in - unless someone pulled it out with his anchor, which will eventually happen in a harbour, as moorings with lazy lines are rare in Greece.

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


James Alton
 

Colin and Lauren,

   Thanks for your input.  I am hearing nothing but great things about the Rocna and am sure that it would be a big upgrade from my current anchor.  I am still not sure of which anchor to go with.  I like the idea of going with a longer rode but apparently beyond 80m on the Maramu the chain castles are a problem.  I am thinking of looking into a way to locate the last 20-30M into the very bow of the locker which would allow the extra length but require manually reloading the first bit of chain if it was ever used.

   If you make it all of the way to Florida, I might be able to help you with the chain but it sounds like you are headed West.  Fair winds!

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 11, 2019, at 2:17 PM, islandpearl2_sm2k332 <colin.d.streeter@...> wrote:

James

Apology, I cannot assist with the Maramu specific anchor fit question, but would say we have been very happy with our Rocna 40kg. Now more than half the way around the world, it has only ever dragged once in the Maldives on rock when we stopped briefly for an hour to refuel in Gan and did not put enough chain out, nor pull back on it.

If the Rocna 33 fits your bow that is what I would fit. We had one on our last boat (Island Packet 40) and it was perfect

On the question of length, I would agree that 100m instead of the standard 80m would be a good idea. We also want to upgrade to 100m or 110m x 10mm chain now before heading over the Pacific. I personally would not go down to 8mm.

Does anyone know of a good quality (Well priced!) chain supplier here in the Caribbean?? We are in BVI'S now, and headed to St Martin next before Bonaire and Panama..

Cheers
Colin & Lauren
SV Island Pearl II
Peter Island, BVI'S




On Sat, 9 Mar. 2019, 10:34 James Alton via Groups.Io, <lokiyawl2=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Maramu owners,

   I am not at my boat currently so need some help.  Can Maramu owners suggest modern anchors that are known to fit the original Amel anchor rollers on the Maramu?  I would like to upgrade from the original Bugel anchor to something with a bit better holding.  The Mantus,  Spade and the Rocna are of interest to me.    I am concerned about the tendency of the anchor to strike the bow when being stowed and how well the anchor stows in the original Amel hardware.

   I am also planing to increase the chain length to at least 100 meters.  Has anyone switched to high strength (I believe it is grade 80?) 8mm chain to help keep the weight and the chain piles down as compared to the 10mm?  I am not concerned about not being able to regalvanize the chain which I understand can weaken the grade 80.

   Short term cruising will be Croatia and Greece.  Hope to be in the Pacific in 4-5 years and I seem to recall suggestions to consider even more than 100 meters of chain?   

Thanks for any insight and suggestions.

James

SV Sueno
Maramu #220




@Sioned
 

Hi James,

I consider 80m chain the minimum (which is unfortunately also the maximum for our boats unless you have your spouse playing chain rat and guiding the chain inside the locker when it is coming in) for mooring stern to with bow anchor.
If you go for 100m (which in all other aspects would be better) you should also install a radio controlled remote for your windlass, so that you can play chain rat yourself (at least as long there is no other traffic around). If I am alone and have to look out for other traffic, I pull in the chain except for the last 15-20m, hurry down to the chain locker (which I opened before), give the chain pile a kick and hurry back on deck to pull in the remaining chain. This way I can avoid a blocking most of the time. It is a pity that the chain locker is not accessible from deck.

Using less than 80m can be so embarassing if you still have 3m to the quay at the end of the chain ;). I even managed to do that with my full 100m in a wide basin where I misguessed the distance. I observed a guy once doing this mistake thrice in a row.

You normally want to use as much chain as possible in the harbour for a few reasons:
- You have to be absolutely sure that the anchor holds because between your stern and the concrete of the wall are less than 2 m. And some ferries can do a lot of surge.
- Most charter guys use less chain (probably because they don't have more on their boats). So your own anchor is out of the danger zone of their anchors.
- Some harbours have derelict mooring chains on the ground. You need to drop your anchor far beyond it unless you want to make the local diver happy (though there ARE some ways to get your anchor free again without diving).

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


James Alton
 

Michael,

   This is great information and I enjoyed the injection of humour as well!

Two questions:

1.  Is there room in the locker in your opinion to install a small partial bulkhead perhaps at the forward end that would separate and contain the troublesome 20-30m of chain?   I have done this on some other boats that have the chain castle problem.  The idea was to just move the initial portion of the chain pile to a location not under the chain hawse hole.  The solution on other boats worked but of course the first 20-30m of chain needs to be manually  anytime that last bit of chain is put to use.

2.  Do you think that 100m of 8mm grade 80 chain would stack without resorting to the chain rat technique?   If so is there a good reason not to consider this solution?  I am pretty sure that there is at least one SM that is using the 8mm chain to reduce the weight.

Thanks for the great advice.

James
SV Sueno, Maramu #220

On Mar 12, 2019, at 10:43 AM, amel@... wrote:

Hi James,

I consider 80m chain the minimum (which is unfortunately also the maximum for our boats unless you have your spouse playing chain rat and guiding the chain inside the locker when it is coming in) for mooring stern to with bow anchor.
If you go for 100m (which in all other aspects would be better) you should also install a radio controlled remote for your windlass, so that you can play chain rat yourself (at least as long there is no other traffic around). If I am alone and have to look out for other traffic, I pull in the chain except for the last 15-20m, hurry down to the chain locker (which I opened before), give the chain pile a kick and hurry back on deck to pull in the remaining chain. This way I can avoid a blocking most of the time. It is a pity that the chain locker is not accessible from deck.

Using less than 80m can be so embarassing if you still have 3m to the quay at the end of the chain ;). I even managed to do that with my full 100m in a wide basin where I misguessed the distance. I observed a guy once doing this mistake thrice in a row.

You normally want to use as much chain as possible in the harbour for a few reasons:
- You have to be absolutely sure that the anchor holds because between your stern and the concrete of the wall are less than 2 m. And some ferries can do a lot of surge.
- Most charter guys use less chain (probably because they don't have more on their boats). So your own anchor is out of the danger zone of their anchors.
- Some harbours have derelict mooring chains on the ground. You need to drop your anchor far beyond it unless you want to make the local diver happy (though there ARE some ways to get your anchor free again without diving).

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


@Sioned
 

Hi James,

I _think_ there should be enough space in the locker to install such a partial bulkhead. But remember that the locker hatch is not that big. So I imagine it will be a pain to both install the bulkhead and to put the first 20 m there each time you have used them. That said it might still be a feasible idea.

There are also other possible technical solutions that might or might not work like:
https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-chain-boy.html
and
https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising/anti-chain-pyramid-rod
So far I didn't try either of it.

Using 8mm chain would probably eliminate the problem alltogether but it comes with a big caveat:

As I pointed out earlier, with the smaller chain you also loose a lot of weight. While this is a desirable effect for the boat trim (more for light deplacement boats than for an Amel), it is abolutely undesirable when the chain is NOT in the locker but in the water.

10m of 10mm chain weigh about 23 kg while 10m of 8mm chain weigh only 13kg. For an anchor chain weight equals to damping. A lighter chain will come stiff like a rod much earlier than a heavier chain when swell and wind increases. As soon as the chain is solid stiff the damping and force absorption cease to exist and the full force of wind gusts and swell will take effect on your anchor thus increasing the danger for it to break out considerably.
This not so much a problem in light conditions, but in heavy weather it can make a big difference.

I consired switching to a 8mm Chrome Duplex chain myself but gave up on that thought when I realized the consequences.

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148


amel46met
 

James
I have 300 feet of 3/8” H.T. Chain. I hand spread the first 100 feet and then pile 200 feet on top of that with the windless no problems with the pyramid although I like hearing it fall over as I retrieve I have tried putting a bulkhead forward and putting 100 feet forward of that but just spreading it seems to work fine for the last 20 years.I do have an old fashion Bruce anchor 50 kg it never drags I like it when people say that is an awfully big anchor.
Tom Deasy 
S/Y Aphrodite 
1983 Maramu # 125


On Mar 12, 2019, at 1:10 PM, "amel@..." <amel@...> wrote:

Hi James,

I _think_ there should be enough space in the locker to install such a partial bulkhead. But remember that the locker hatch is not that big. So I imagine it will be a pain to both install the bulkhead and to put the first 20 m there each time you have used them. That said it might still be a feasible idea.

There are also other possible technical solutions that might or might not work like:
https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-chain-boy.html
and
https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising/anti-chain-pyramid-rod
So far I didn't try either of it.

Using 8mm chain would probably eliminate the problem alltogether but it comes with a big caveat:

As I pointed out earlier, with the smaller chain you also loose a lot of weight. While this is a desirable effect for the boat trim (more for light deplacement boats than for an Amel), it is abolutely undesirable when the chain is NOT in the locker but in the water.

10m of 10mm chain weigh about 23 kg while 10m of 8mm chain weigh only 13kg. For an anchor chain weight equals to damping. A lighter chain will come stiff like a rod much earlier than a heavier chain when swell and wind increases. As soon as the chain is solid stiff the damping and force absorption cease to exist and the full force of wind gusts and swell will take effect on your anchor thus increasing the danger for it to break out considerably.
This not so much a problem in light conditions, but in heavy weather it can make a big difference.

I consired switching to a 8mm Chrome Duplex chain myself but gave up on that thought when I realized the consequences.

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148